Planned Parenthood Responds to Tebow Super Bowl Ad

That is, actually, the pro choice stance.

Let’s see… ‘Planned Parenthood’ objects to an ad that tries to discourage abortion? Why? Bad for business? Don’t feed me the freedom line.

Who freakin cares.  This is a sports site.  Please keep politics out of here.  I can’t stand politicians, Democrat, Republican,…whatever….go some place else. 

Let us remember that women can only be strong when their mother’s choose life for them…  Without this women are attacking their own stance.  We all agree in women’s rights… don’t forget the unborn child!

Isn’t the pro-choice stance that women should be able to choose whether or not they have abortions? From what I hear, that’s what the Tebow ad is – a woman who made a choice not to have an abortion.  If the Tebow ad is simply encouraging women to make the choice not to have an abortion, what’s the problem?  Isn’t that what being pro-choice is all about?  Having an actual choice?

Planned parenthood is proving that they’re not really pro-choice, they’re pro-abortion.

"Planned parenthood is proving that they’re not really pro-choice, they’re pro-abortion."

Did you watch the video? Your first paragraph is pretty much what it is about.

I am kind of stuck on the SI columnist that wants Tim tebow to fail because Tebow is a member of the God Squad…. who cares if Tebow is or is not. This guy just completed a brilliant college career and should be celebrated for that.  I am kind of like Sailor Gabe from the perspective, just keep politics out of sports. They screw everything else up, don’t let them screw sports up.

hahaha do people in this country have to come up with a new thing to bitch about everyday?

This add? Talk about swimming in it.  

FuKK Planned Parenthood! They were founded by the same people who funded Hitler. TRUE STORY! I know it sounds crazy, but look it up. They are a Eugenics operation who wants to shrink the world population.

It would be funny if Tebow made the NFL, got his big platform… and then went back to pass, only to be speared in the back and driven from the NFL by some guy on the Bengals who has 8 kids by 5 different women.

Just what the NFL needs, another despicable Right Wing QB affiliated with the Psychopaths at James Dobson’s Focus on the Family. Exit Kurt Warner (soon to be running for something, somewhere other neanderthals congregate…) and enter Tebow.I grew up rooting for Roger Staubach ON the field, and cringing at everything he said off of it, rooted for Chris Evert on a court until her conservative voice killed the joy. Mariano Rivera is a genius with a ball in his hand and a supernatural fantasist when the game ends…Tebow, like Warner or Schilling, is a piece of trash who I would go after with any tool at my disposal in any setting, but he is entitled to be a puke in a free country (as they are) and entitled to be judged by football fans as a football player, not as a citizen.The rule of thumb is don’t let anyone speak to ideas digitally that you would never tolerate being spoken in your presence. Don’t remove their right to say, feel, read, write, screw, pray as they see fit any more than you’d let them do to you. If Tebow moves next door, shun him, if he comes on the TV to pipe hatred and ignorance, turn the channel, but if he has a ball in his hand – I will be watching.

Politics IS in sports as in life.
Maybe not Republican or Democrat or Libertarian.
Why not pro-choice or pro-life, or some other stand?
Politics exists.
The most glaring example – the BCS system is political.
Oh ya, the politicians are looking into the BCS.
I was disgusted by M Vick and his operation, but animal rights is political. In many countries they did nothing wrong.
PED prohibition is a righteous, but political, rule.
I wish tobacco was banned, but not showing the ads is political. Especially since we are swamped in Beer ads.
Politics is in sports. I don’t see any reason not to allow both sides to duke it out with advertising.
I think the real problem is many, such as Jeff Pearlman, would rather not think about God.
If you don’t think about God you can convince yourself he doesn’t exist.

"Did you watch the video? Your first paragraph is pretty much what it is about."

That’s exactly my point.  If the Tebow ad is about having a choice, why is planned parenthood up in arms about it?  Why are they bothered that someone made a choice and encourages other people to make the same choice?  It’s not like the Tebow ad (I presume) is saying that abortion should be illegal, or that women shouldn’t have a right to choose – it’s simply encouraging women to choose to give birth rather than abort their babies. 

Thanks CBS for allowing the social/moral/political commentary during the Super Bowl…We just dont get enough of this stuff during the rest of the year..Some of us would like to just enjoy the game without being browbeaten by either side. I guess the dumba** beer and soda ads were just not deep enough!!

Abortion is today’s burning moral issue like Slavery was for the first
150+ years of America’s existance.

Abortion like slavery is all about making money/placing money ahead of
people. There is a ton of funding and money involved in the Abortion
industry and it is very lucrative.

Slavery was largely an economic issue (the slave and rum trade was
doubly lucrative with the same ship carrying both cargos back and
forth across the Atlantic)—-many slave hands made for huge plantation
profits despite all the misery and death that came along with it.  

The North hated the system on moral grounds partially but also heavily
on the "free/cheap" labor Southerners enjoyed compared to paying workers
in Northern factories— an unfair economic advantage that had to be
stopped or so the Northern argument went.

Pro-choice—-Tebow’s mother made a choice herself despite the "advice"
she was being pressured with. And what choice did fetus Tim Tebow
have back then about whether he was to be born or not?

A person can be tried for murder and manslaughter by killing an unborn
baby in it’s mother’s womb due to violence yet a smaller, younger baby
can be terminated and it’s called Abortion.

I understand—not.

Pro choice says it supports women—yet 50% of the aborted children are
women.

Abortion effectively eliminates the financial burden (once again,
there’s more money at stake here) of raising and supporting a child
until 18 years of age.

So we exercise our "get out of parenting costs cheaply" option by
aborting a child to save the money and stress of parenting

At some point the "placing money before people" argument will
potentially be applied to the aged, handicapped, crippled, dying,
autistic who are costing money to care for
-it’s not really a big step to go there next-it’s the same logic.

So Tebow and Tebow’s Mom—-tell your story—it needs to be said and
heard and discussed.

Planned Parenthood—-whose agenda are you serving other than getting
rich from other people’s situations and problems and having mothers kill
their children in the name of a choice?

I believe life starts at conception and therefor is protected. The "choice" is wether or not to have sex without a contraceptive. Don’t even pull the "what about rape" card… Rape is pretty rare, and getting pregnant that way is even rarer.
It is only the creators choice as to when life will end.
God bless Tebow for spreading a good message.

I wonder if Sean James and Al Joyner would support their mommies right to abort them.

To me, I always thought the one person’s rights should not come at the expense of anothers. Adults live their lives knowing there are consequences to what we do. Abortion is nothing less than murder and I applaud loudly what the Tebow family has revealed here about their own choices.

I think it’s funny that some people are so scared of a 30 second commercial that almost nobody has seen.  After the commercial airs, women will have the same rights as before, but maybe a few will give a little more thought to a choice that will be with them for the rest of their lives.  Why anyone wouldn’t want that is beyond me.

And vagabondguru, sounds to me like there is a lot of hatred in your life, maybe you should get some help.  I guess your mommy should have thought a little longer about her choice.

Morons.  Who cares the "argument" is stupid. 

SailorGabe, since this is your second post here, I’m guessing you care.  If you think it is so stupid, why are you spending time with this issue.

Kind of makes you the moron for participating.  It’s not like you have to read any of this or post a comment.

Planned Parenthood is exactly what it says, you don’t plan on being a parent. They are the biggest abortion provider in the U.S.

Abortion is the same as murder.  There has been video evidence of baby’s inside of the moms stomach trying to get away from the instruments they shove inside the women to kill the baby.  The videos also show the babies struggling and suffering as the doctor repeatedly stabs the baby.  Its know different than taking a knife to a new-born baby.  My wife is currently 6 months pregnant.  If someone took a instrument and stuck it inside of her and killed my baby I would consider it murder.  The baby moves around in her stomach.  The doctor even said the baby will recognize our voices when its born. 

BARRACK HUSSEIN OBAMA SUPPORTS ABORTION
HE ALSO HAS A MUSLIM NAME
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

If your wife could be killed by carrying the pregnancy, would you let her die?

Frenchie, The situation you present as I understand it, is the exact situation  which Tim Tebow’s mother faced.  Parenthood isn’t trivial and should never be approached casually.  Unfortunately our society too often creates greater tragedies by trying to avoid others.  The fact that some women are at risk during their pregnancies is hardly reason for the wholesale massacre of the millions of unborn that has occurred since Roe v Wade.

Preaching to the choir, bro… I would only consider abortion in medical cases… although you and I may differ as to when life begins, but we may not, too.

You didn’t answer my question, though… would you gamble your wife’s life for it?

Also… "Frenchie" lives on Cape Cod.

Evangelist Christianity is the EXACT same as Extremist Muslims, I agree with the right to have an opinion, but to come on here and defend Tebow and his Extremist view points and then Bash Islam just shows how ignorant and f*cking retarded you really are, seriously, why do some of you give a Sh*t what people are doing with there bodies, if you dont want an abortion dont F*cking get one, and stop trying to push your bullsh*t religious values on everyone, live your life by your values as long as your not bringing other people who want nothing to do with them into your narrow view of the world

87dustin87, as someone that is adopted and not wanted, luckly I was born before 1973 (if you are not aware that is when they started letting women make choices with their bodies), so I could write this post.  If there is one thing for sure in this country, all good will be attacked.  To compare Christianity to radical Muslims is amazing.  I guess we need to profile all those christians at the airport trying to blow up airplanes.

Last I checked we still have a first ammendment (for a little while) and all Tebow is doing is expressing his point of view on a subject.  Instead of taking cheap shots at him personally, why not take him on in the arena of ideas.  If abortion is such a great thing, show some intelligence and state the reasons why.

87dustin87, last time I checked, Tebow wasn’t trying to fly planes into buildings, he’s trying to make people think a little longer about a very difficult choice. Exactly what is so extreme about Tebow telling his story? Why are you so terrified of that happening?

Go back and read what you wrote. You’re the one that comes across as ignorant, especially when you call people f*cking retarded. Act civilized and maybe people would take you seriously.

Dustin,

As a Christian, I must ask that you provide some reasoning for your very incitefull statements.  1.   Exactly how do you equate followers of Christ to people who are sworn to kill anybody who doesn’t agree with their religion?  2.  Exactly which of Tebow’s views are extremist?

As for your question, I don’t care what anyone does with their body – it’s their life.  I may offer an opinion as to the best way to live, but it is ultimately the individual’s deciscion to live how they do.  My problem is when someone wants to abort the birth of a baby – who has its own DNA, and is a completely different being.  A woman can do whatever she wants with her body, but once she gets pregnant, she shares part of her body with another being, and that life has rights too, we just don’t recognize them fully.

I find it ironic that you have no room in your open mind for such "narrow views".  Are you accepting of other’s viewpoints or not? 

djs

Through out history, it was a women’s #1 calling to pass on life to her unborn/born and men’s calling to protect the offspring "til death". The situation of a mother or father giving their life is a horrible one, but history tells us that both genders have accepted these situations without waiver and also did so with honor, courage, and character. Life with honor keeps both individuals and society clean. Still today, if a women puts herself before her fetus before birth, she will also do so after birth, thus revealing the quality of mothering to be expected from her. Lousy mom in – lousy mom out. If as a man you find yourself committed to such a women, get a vasectomy pronto. Adopt perhaps.  

87dustin87  if think abortion is ok then can we perform an abortion on you?  How would you like a rod pushed into your head?  That little baby is alive and it’s the same thing.

 i have no problem with Christianity in general, i compared evangelists, not ALL Christians, I’m talking the ones blowing up abortion clinics and killing doctors who perform abortions, you know using fear to make people believe what they believe which is the exact same thing as terrorism but because its not Muslims doing it, its not considered terrorism. I have no problem with Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Etc… Its when people get delusional and start becoming extreme in there beliefs is when i start to get worried because there alot of evangelists in N.america, and as to Tim tebow, Just look at his fathers website, those types of things being taught to people, the last battle for god coming and that kinda crap leads to extremism in religion because people believe the end is coming and they have to pick sides and spread the word of whatever faith they follow, and when everybodys picked a side it leads to wars, and people dying because they dont believe in what the people killing them do

And jaws its a bit to late to say i should have been aborted, but if i had been, i would never have existed and neither would my opinion on the fact i had been aborted

Just as Tebow’s mom chose to have Tim, so did Bin Laden’s mom choose to have Osama.  If they both had to make the same decision, we’d be better off if they chose the other alternative.

87dustin87, I think you’re confusing evangelicalism with extreme fundamentalism.  Tens of millions of americans claim to be evangelical.  Evangelicals are known for "evangelizing" – or telling others about Jesus – not for bombing abortion clinics.

I for one, consider myself an evangelical.  However, I’m also a pacifist and reject all forms of violence – in everything from abortion to self-defense.

that’s almost funny, gal. anyways, as usual scurdsy needs to hit a homerun and clarify what is missing here.  at the root of this tebow commercial you will find the anti-abortionist conservatives.  They vehemently, sometimes fanatically and violently, disagree with the decision to abort an unborn child.  the arguement has been made here that all this commercial is doing is suggesting that it is viable and sage to consider birthing the child, so why all the opposition? (here comes the homerun)  well the problem is that these people want to overturn roe vs wade, and make it illegal for anyone else to act on their opinion.  that’s why people should be wary of this kind of thing because there are many who think that you are too stupid to make a rational decision if you happen to disagree with them.  If you don’t agree with the concept of abortion, then don’t have one. if you are ok with it, then that option is available. 

1.   Exactly how do you equate followers of Christ to people who are sworn to kill anybody who doesn’t agree with their religion? 

Gulf War I, II..

Crusades I, II, III, iV, V, Vi, VII, Vii IX…. Northern crusades, French crusades

Native American holocaust

European holocaust

2.  Exactly which of Tebow’s views are extremist?

Mothers should risk death to avoid aborting a fetus.

Homosexuals are going to Hell

School prayer insistence

Corporal punishment support

anti-pornography

anti-sex outside of marriage

Gambling is a sin

pro-Intelligent design, taught in schools

3) I’m loving the guy who says that a woman’s purpose in life is to push out babies.

im sorry for generalizing "notinHD", its refreshing to see pacifism in someone who is religious, I myself am pacifist except in cases of self defense, i spoke in haste earlier and should not have generalized, but to my defense most extremest fundamentalist in the christian faith this century do fall under the evangelist following. And thank you "moi" for the list of some of the extreme views of tebow, though some people here might not consider those extreme even though they are

L’etat, c’est moi,

The fourth crusade was Christians against other Christians.

The first Gulf War was because Iraq invaded Kuwait. The Gulf Wars were because of oil not because of Jesus.

As for the Native American Holocaust, there were a number of times where the natives massacred settlers. Also, I am fairly certain it was due to Manifest Destiny and not because of "spreading the word."

Holocaust during the Nazi occupation of Europe was due to a bastardized form of social Darwinism.

Why not mention the Armenian Holocaust? Turkey still denies it happened.

What about what happened during the Reign of Terror? And Hebert’s Cult of Reason?

L’etat, c’est moi,

As for Tebow’s views….. Yeah they are pretty extreme, but at the same time he isn’t forcing people to do anything.

ummm: faustus: go back and reread my post willya.  stop walking around in such a haze of ignorance.

Planned Parenthood is the equivalent of the SS in America.
They’ve placed their abortion mills in minority and poverty stricken areas.
Who are they to question anyone?
They have nothing to do with parenthood except eliminating it!

Faustus 500, you’re right on thank you for responding to the brain washed and indoctrinated!

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L’etat, c’est moi:

Before
you start making wild claims at least know what you are talking
about.
I would suggest the "Native American holocaust"
was not based on Christian desires.
Money, Greed, and Power.
The
Northwest
Ordinance of 1787 spelled out our Christian Forefathers
wishes:

Art. 3. Religion, morality, and
knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of
mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be
encouraged. The utmost good faith shall always be observed towards
the Indians; their lands and property shall never be taken from them
without their consent; and, in their property, rights, and liberty,
they shall never be invaded or disturbed, unless in just and lawful
wars authorized by Congress; but laws founded in justice and
humanity, shall from time to time be made for preventing wrongs being
done to them, and for preserving peace and friendship with them.

Even slavery was not to be allowed in the new territory see
Art. 6.

Of
course we soon slipped away from these ideals, not because of
Christian Evangelism but because of the corruption of $$$$.

Also
if you look at Art.3 you will notice Religion was tied to education
that’s another day though…

Meant to say,
Money, Greed, and Power did it.

Craterlake, thank you for your intelligent response.

Sadly, many have been indoctrinated with anti – God propaganda and are very ignorant of American History.

My recommendaiton is for all to read;

"Under the Influence" by Dr. Alvin Schmidt!

OrthodoxChristian vs Roman Catholic Christian is still religious warfare, Faustus. Follow some of those Wikipedia links through, son.

The native vs colonist score was about 10,000,000 to 5,000. Shaking head…lol

Nazi = Social Darwinism… as carried out, by policy, against Jews and Gypsies.

Armenia suffered heavily, but I wasn’t asked to list Muslim offenses against Christians.

L’etat, c’est moi

Are you a Native American?  If NOT shut your mouth and move out this country or don’t bring up anything else with the poor treatment of Native Americans, because we are on their land!! 

BTW, Nazi war crimes were NOT only against Jews and Gypsies, they were against "Untermensch" All those considered racially inferior to the master race, should you know much about WWII, you would understand that Eastern Europeans suffered much loss.

Finally, don’t oversimplify war, There are factors in Northern Ireland, Israel and Middle East that lead to war besides religious differences.
For example;  The vast majority of historians believe the 30 years war in Germany was NOT religious, but politically based even though it was Roman Catholics verses Protestants!

The Northwest Ord is a bunch of nonsense. Note that they also claim that they will never take the land from the Indians… that worked out pretty well. What you’re actually reading there is their outline for the theft of their ancestral lands

You may want to read a little deeper into that. Care to guess how the Indian/US differences were worked out? I’ll give you a hint, my friend… it involved war and expulsion.

Jesus Lord… when you read history, do you just look at the pictures or something?
 
Rev,, I’m sticking up for the Indians, you friggin’ moron. I’m pointing out that a Christian race performed a genocide upon a non-Christian people. I like it here.. I think I’ll stay.

While Nazis punished other people besides Jews and Gypsies, they did- again, by policy- go after Jews and gypsies. Please show me where I erred in that statement.

Yes, there were financial factors involved in the 30 Years War… but the primary sides were drawn up by religion.

I hope you guys understand sports better than you understand history. I’ll have to spend the whole Super Bowl here explaining to people that NFL players aren’t required to dribble the football if they wish to move their pivot foot.

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L’etat, c’est moi:

I
thought you were smarter than that.

Not
sure why but you aren’t paying attention.

Did
you notice I said:

“Of
course we soon slipped away from these ideals, not because of
Christian Evangelism but because of the corruption of $$$$.”

You
tried to blame the “Native American holocaust” on “followers of
Christ”.

The
followers of Christ wanted to treat the Native Americans with
respect.

It
was the followers of Mammon that destroyed the Native tribes.

Since
I am not sure if this might be confusing to you. I will explain.

Mammon is a biblical term
(meaning it comes from the bible) describing wealth or greed. It is
Aramaic in origin.

Of
course there is always some moron out there that doesn’t care about
facts they just want to blame Christianity.

Why
do you hate Christ so much?

Tell me, my friend…. in regards to colonists vs. Native Americans… is it safe to say that a Christian race slaughtered a non-Christian race? If it isn’t, I’d like to hear how you’d spin that. If it is safe to say that, you’re wrong. Simple and plain.

Here’s the quote I borrowed, and the (abridged) answer I gave:

1.   Exactly how do you equate followers of Christ to people who are sworn to kill anybody who doesn’t agree with their religion? 

Native American holocaust

Again… please show me where the inconsistency lies in my argument. I can pretty much assure you that no Muslims or Buddhists were over here killing the Natives.

These followers of Christ wanted to treat the NAs with respect???? Christ man, were you dropped on your head as a child?

I’ll make this fair. Hold off on your reply until, say, 3 PM EST tomorrow. At that point, my 8 year old daughter will be home from school, and you can argue with her over a level playing field. You’re not ready for the Pros yet, my man.

I like Jesus. He was a man of peace, and a fine teacher. He also would have spit on our forefathers for how they treated the Native Americans.

L’etat c’est moi;

Appearantly, you really don’t like historical facts nor have your responded to some of my statements;

1.  Once again the 30 years war was due to politics, the last stance of The Roman Empire, Protestants and Roman Catholics fought over political control, it wasn’t over doctrine!!  

2.  It wasn’t ONLY Christians who mistreated Native Americans and what would have happened if the Chinese or Japanese came to NA first?

3. Good point about Nazi Policy, but you forgot about Lebensraum and Hitler’s real push for war in the East.  BTW, start comparing numbers of Jews and Gypsies killed by the Nazis and Those in Eastern Europen killed by Nazis and Lebensraum was a policy as well.

4.  Good point about your 8 year old daughter coming home, perhaps she can begin teaching you and your liberal brainwashed view of history correctly!

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L’etat,
c’est moi:

There
is no such thing as a Christian race.

How
Absurd!!!

There
are Christians all over the world, including Native Americans.

You
can’t be serious!

There
was Gold and Wealth on the west coast and people on the East coast.
There were a whole lot of Native Americans in between.

They
wanted Wealth and Homes and they saw the Native people as inferior.
That has never been a Christian viewpoint.

Jesus
said to chose between God or Mammon, these people chose Mammon.

Matthew
6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one,
and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the
other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Slaughtering
people is not Christian by ANY stretch of the imagination.

**Crater lake;

The difficulty in talking with ’Letat is that he has assumptions and biases based on his indoctrination against religion and Christianity in specific.

He has difficulty comprehending factual statements made to him contrary to his stances.

The best thing we can say about him is that his mind is made up and he doesn’t want to be confused by the facts!!

L’etat

The only examples you list that are remotely similar are the Crusades, where Christians invaded the Holy Land and tried to force Muslims to convert.  This, however is not true Christianity, and is not (as I asked in my origional question) following Christ.  This was an example of a people being misguided, and we can all agree is some time ago.  Modern day evangelicals hold no such position that would demand one convert or they be killed.  You see, the Bible teaches that the person must accept Christ, and submit to His authority of his own will, or it is useless.  What good is it to force someone to profess faith?  Our only job is to spread the information, and let Him be known.

Does this mean that Christians cannot go to war?  Absolutely not.  We are a soverign nation (based origionally in large part on Christianity) and as such have the right to defend ouselves and our interests, and most of if not all your recent examples are instances of that.  Secular fighting that had no bearing on the faiths of the participants.  This is in contrast to extreme Muslims who feel that their religion teaches that anyone who does not convert to Islam must be killed.  I don’t see how the two can be remotely compared.

Lastly, the criticism about Tebow’s website is interesting.  He is quoting scripture.  I find it frightening that scripture (and it’s accurate accounting) is being labeled as an extreme view in this country.  Tebow’s views are extreme?  I’ll respond to each of your accusations.
"Mothers should risk death to avoid aborting a fetus."
Aborting the fetus is killing a child to a Christian, so you are faced with RISKING the life of the mother or KILLING the baby.  In a perfect world, the mother would recognize the risks before deciding to get pregnant…

"Homosexuals are going to Hell"
This is a total misrepresentation of the Christian beliefs.  Christians (and I would assume Tebow) believe that ALL have sinned, thus we are all deserving of ****ation.  Any sin in our life is enough to seperate us from God, and thus an eternity in Hell.  Christ paid the price for us all as he was perfect (without sin) and through his sacrifice, we are sanctified.  Homosexuals can just as easily be saved as anyone else – all it takes is to accept Christ as Lord.  The rub comes when you study what the Bible says about how to live your life, and it is very clear that homosexuality (or rather the acts associated with it) is a sin – and we are commanded to flee from sin (not to say we don’t fail – that’s part of life)

"School prayer insistence"
I’m a little confused on this one, as I have never known anyone who wants to force anyone to pray, in or out of schools.  If you are referring to prayer in school, I would counter that that is not very extreme as most Americans would agree to that. 

"Corporal punishment support"
Again, I think you would find it hard to sell spanking as an extreme stance, and you listing it as such is telling.

"anti-pornography"
Really?  Really!?  This is extreme?  Being against an industry that aids tremendously in the collapse of so many families is extreme?  Again, I fear that you will find yourself in the minority on this one.

"anti-sex outside of marriage"
I know it isn’t popular, but this is extreme?  Wow, what a long way we have come if this is the case.  By the way, how is this threatening to anyone?  I would think it shows a lot of character to have the self-control you must have to remain celebate, especially when you are a household name throughout the country.  I guarantee that his girlfriend won’t have to worry about making any choices if they follow this rule.

"Gambling is a sin"
Another misrepresentation of what the Bible teaches (note I say Bible, as you are partly right – some Christians misinterpret this as well).  I’m not aware of anywhere that the Bible teaches that gambling is a sin.  It does, however, make it very clear that you are to be responsible with your resources, and a lifestyle of being addicted to gambling would be considered a sin.  A $10 poker game at your house would not be (alcohol could be substituted here as well)

"pro-Intelligent design, taught in schools"
Ok, a point that I’m sure we could debate on and on, but extreme?  Surely not.  BTW, is it really that offensive that we suggest that there may be order to the universe?  That all the wonders that exist were put in place on purpose by someone (something) that we can’t completely understand?  Is that less believable that pure chance and luck?

Sorry for the long response and for preaching if you took it that way.  Just trying to shed some light on the subject.

djs

Rev
She does have some issues.
I did think she was much more aware than she appears to be.
Then again I never did figure out women. I suppose that is why I have been divorced from the same one twice and bounced around till I was 30 before that.
I love women but I sure don’t understand why some can’t see what I see.
Certainly some just hate the idea of God and rebel because of that.

Last line should have read:
Certainly some People just hate the idea of God and rebel because of that.
Certainly did not want to infer that it was a female problem.

Rev,

1) The Thirty Years War was fought for political power…. and it was fought between Catholics and Protestants!!! If you can’t gather that fact from a textbook, I’m not sure what you’re going to gain from an argument.

What if the japanese came here first? Who knows? I was asked to list Christian examples of genocide, and saw no need to mention people of Buiddhist or Shinto faiths.

2) What the hell are you talking about? Please speak at length about the great Muslim or Buddhist attacks on the Indians. If you say "Mogul India," I’m going to crawl through the Internet and kill your history teacher… unless he or she drank the Kool-Aid themselves aftr dealing with you for a semester.

3) I won’t deny that Hitler wanted oil and so forth. I’d be a fool to do so…. just like you are a fool if you deny that one of the Nazi war aims was the elimination of the Jews.

Just to show some common ground… I’ve gotten in trouble before in liberal Massachusetts by teaching that more Russian Christians died in WWII than Jews…. but, again, killing Jews specifically was part of Hitler’s plan. You learn this in college. Trust me.

My God… read the textbooks, kid.

Crater,

While Christianity indeed isn’t a race, you can still look at a war between two races and note that one of the races was Christian and one wasn’t Christian.

Yes, some Native Americans abandoned their culture and gods for our culture and Gods. I grew up in SE Massachusetts, where King Phillip’s War was fought. What they called "praying Indians" were spared, and some fought with the Christian colonists.

We were killing Native Americans for a few hundred years before they discovered Gold in California. KPW was fought in the 1670s… that 49ers team isn’t named after 1649, let me assure you.

I appreciate that you are not ascribing our difference of opinion on the matter to all females.

I have bothing against Xtianity in general, even though I don’t practice it. If you’re into it, God bless you and all that, honestly. If it makes you feel better, I don’t see your religion as being any sillier than Islam, Buddhism, or Sun Worship.

Better people than you and I have failed to see why men and women don’t agree. Let’s just stick to easier topics, like Abortion and Christian military history.

L’etat,
c’est moi:
My problem with you is you are trying to make Christianity, or any religion, the excuse for a human problem.

Rome did not expand into Britain and the rest of the world because they were spreading their religion.
Native Americans did not war against each other because of religion.
Genghis Khan did not expand the Mongol Empire to spread religion.
The tribes of Africa did not war for religion.

Humans Kill and Conquer for greed and lust.
Some have used religion as an excuse but at least Christianity has never ever taught such a thing.
Not to say some haven’t used Christianity as the excuse. They will have their place.

Catch,

I was listing wars/massacres featuring Christian people against non-Christians, as I was asked to do.

We can defend our rights and interests, yes… and we sometimes do so in Iraq. You seem to be smart enough that I should only have to mention once that we killed all those Indians because we wanted their lands… and I should only have to mention once that this involved a Christians performing genocide on non-Christians.

It isn’t just the USA. Spain, Portugal, France, and England killed their share, too. Even the Vikings bagged their limit.

We didn’t kill those Indians in self-defense. We killed them to steal their land. While the fact that Christians killed non-Christians is incidental to the matter, it is still a fact that Christians killed non-C’s via state-directed policy.

Focus on Family does quote Scripture at times. However…I was drafted by the Catholics, and stuck around long enough to assure you that Jesus said nothing about Internet Porn, Las Vegas, or what should be taught in American high schools.

While I wish you and yours nothing but the best, I would be interested in listening to you trying to force your wife into carrying through with a potentially deadly pregnancy.

I think if you read what I said and what FOF says about homosexuality verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwly, you’ll see that I have described them fairly enough.

Schools are run by governments, and our govt. can make no laws requiring that religion be practiced in school. FOF wants school prayer. No one is stopping anyone from praying in school, and you can send kids off to religious private schools if you want to.

I call beating children "child abuse." Where do you live… Jonestown???

Studies show a decline in rape since Internet porn became widely available. If internet porn breaks up a marriage, the marriage prolly wasn’t that sound to begin with. Rergardless, Jesusnever mentioned it.

If you view adultery as a mortal sin, you view 99% of the adults in this country as doomed to an eternity of torture in hellfire. I don’t see it that way, and maybe you don’t…but FoF does, which is the point I was making.

We agree on gambling, and if you read back to see that I referenced it while speaking against FoF’s policies, you should understand why I listed it there. Go on. I’ll wait.

Trying to force a scientific view from a textbook in favor of a fairy tale may be viewed as extreme in some cases. Again, the law that prevents schools from doing so also prevents the government from stopping you from teaching your kids that some great spook in the sky planned everything, which is what Jefferson had in mind.

You and I aren’t that far apart, and you’d understand my point of view better if you know that my problem with the Tebow issue is over the FoF commercial, not his own private religious practices. He seems like a nice kid.

Crater…

Again, I was just pointing out that Christians have killed Non-Christians, just like Muslims have kileld non-Muslims. In almost every case I listed, conversion to the religion of the conqueror would have saved the people whio suffered the genocide… Christian or Muslim. Otherwise, the loser was slaughtered.

You’ll see that I put Genghis/India in there as a joke if you read verrrrrrrrrry slowwwwly.

Many Brits were Christian before the Romans arrived. I’m not sure where you got me talking about Romans bringing Christ to England, so we can discuss that after you show me where I said it.

Again, I was not asked to list African-on-African wars…. nor would I have listed them in a discussion of Christian-on non Christian slaughter.

Jeepers, creepers!

L’etat,
I also don’t like the stands of FOF, 700 club, etc.
However our 1st amendment allows them to say what they want.
Suggesting we should censure what someone says goes against American principles.

That said, Jesus did speak out against porn.

Matthew 5:27-28
27Ye have heard that it
was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

 28But I say unto you, That
whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery
with her already in his heart.

The purpose of porn is lust.

L’etat,
I wasn’t thinking of your Genghis remark.
It should be noted G.K. expected religious tolerance.
I wasn’t referring to any quote you made I was simply pointing out war is human and has nothing to do with Christianity.
Rome invaded Britain in 43AD not too many Christians there 10 years after Christ.
With no TV, no Internet, Rome was quite isolated from the Middle East, even though they ruled.
Christianity didn’t spread that fast.

I think you missed my point.
War is not a Christian goal, it is a human goal. ALL humans.

Christianity has done more to end these atrocities than create them.

I don’t think FoF should be silenced, for the same reason you list.

I don’t like that CBS allows their views while refusing to allow an opposite viewpoint to air, but I’d rather start that one up tomorrow morning.

The purpose of porn is satiation of lust. They sort of built the industry on the idea that there were people out there who lust already.

Lenny 4:20… "And he who doth goeth to Mr. Skin dot com and doth gaze upon a pixelated image of Buffy The Vampire Slayer in the buff(y) shall be cast into the lake of fire."

Rome did hit England when you said they did, but the Romans weren’t Christian at the time, either. Christianity came to Brittania via continental trade.

Yes, war is a human failing… we agree… but what you seem to not be getting that it is a human failing that the Christians have practiced.

I’ve got about 50 million to 1.5 million that says that Christians have done more to promote genocide than to stop it.

who’s up for a beer summit at the white house?

i have to remind everyone that the nazis were fascists, and as such cloaked themselves in whatever ideology was convenient at the moment.  they were shapeshifters like that freaky broad on space 1999.  so you can’t really hold them out as christians because they were propagandists purely when it came to religion.  I am a person who has experienced persecution due to my religion.  in junior high i was forcibly forced to partake in catholic communion rituals and physically forced to attend and participate in their rituals in my school gymn.  and i mean one teacher had me around the waist while 2 others held my arms and jammed a wafer of cardboard down my throat. by the way, this occurred in a public school, not a catholic or private one.  my parents attempted legal action but were simply told by the police and the local prosecutors and judges that they were wasting their time.
    as a result, i believe choice is first and foremost most important in terms of religous matters. don’t like abortion? don’t get one. but don’t tell me i can’t.

 L’etat, c’est moi

1. I did read the text books, In the 30 years war the divide was between Protestants and Roman Catholic, but the war was about control and money and power and freedom and NOT just Theology.

2.  The Genocide of Indians just wasn’t commited by Christians, Europeans, yes.  BTW, if you are NOT a Native American than you are living off the fruits of that Genocide!!  You didn’t catch that the first time. Don’t speak out of both sides of your mouth, bash the un fair treatment of NA, then live in their land.

3.  Of course Hitler wanted to eliminate Jews, but the racial policies went to all inferior races and groups, political and religious that opposed him, Yes, he did want Oil and Iron and Coal and Lumber and Land, BUT, as you correctly pointed out those in the East suffered in larger numbers than the Jews. 

4. The greatest slaughter of mankind came via "Social Darwinists" Nazis and Atheistic regimes like the USSR and Comm. China.

 Don’t like abortion don’t have one.
Don’t like rape, don’t do it.
Don’t like Genocide, don’t participate in it.
Don’t like drunk driving, get a designated driver
However, don’t interfere with those who do enjoy those things…

Interesting logic, but very foolish and indefensable!

Rev,,we finally agree, mostly.

1) If agree that Catholics fought Protestants…good enough for me.

2) I speak about whatever history I wish to speak about, race be ****ed. Yes, we are living off the fruits of a genocide…some of us more than one genocide, if we’re from, like, France or somewhere. Only a fool would ask someone not to speak on the matter, though. You might want to drop that particular belief.

3) Your first sentence makes my point for me, thank you.

4) While I don’t believe it myself… unless you want to call BS on your religion, the greatest slaughter in history was God wiping out everything on Earth that didn’t fit into Noah’s Ark.

John… smiles….good idea

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L’:

What
you don’t understand and probably never will is there is a huge
difference between someone that says they are Christian, or YOU say
is Christian, and a Christian.

John
Newton was born in England (1725).
His mother was strong in faith. In your mind that would make Newton a
Christian.

Newton
worked the slave trade. You would say another example of Christian
behavior.

Newton
was himself made into a slave and abused. Then he was rescued.

Sailing
back to England on a merchant ship in 1748 the ship nearly sank.
Newton cried out to God and counts May 10, 1748 as the date his life
changed. He began to read the bible, he gave up profanity, drinking,
etc.

He
did not consider that to be the date of his conversion, that took a
little longer.

Amazingly
he not only went back to the slave trade he became the captain of a
slave ship.

Even
after his conversion he worked the slave trade. NOW you can say he
was a Christian slaver. He was not a Christian slaver earlier.

Next
he became a preacher.

Eventually
he not only renounced the slave trade he was instrumental in
eliminating the slave trade in England. His anti-slavery pamphlet was
a hot item.

He
became an Abolitionist working to eliminate the slave trade.

Meanwhile
William Wilberforce also had a conversion experience, and questioned
what he should do.

John
Newton counseled Wilberforce to remain in politics.

With
Newton, Wilberforce campaigned to end slavery, leading to the Slavery
Abolition Act of 1833.

Wilberforce
also founded the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to
Animals.

None
of these accomplishments would have happened if these men had not
become true believers.

Anyone
can say they are a Christian, and you can call anyone you choose a
Christian.

That
is not Christianity. A Christian is converted, born again.

True
Christians Stop Genocide.

Amazing
grace! How sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me.

I
once was lost, but now I’m found, was blind, but now I see.

John
Newton

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Test
- to figure out why font looks so obnoxious.

TSB uses one font, and the page you pasted on uses another. Sometimes it matters here, sometimes it doesn’t. A "paste as plain text" icon helps, but generally isn’t needed.

<!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } -->

Thanks,
I also am trying a smaller font on my WP this one is 9

PS

CBS
can let anyone they want run ads, they are a private company.

That
would be like demanding FOX run a John Stewart show…

<!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } -->I didn’t paste from anything except that 1725 date that turned up small.

Where
you meaning the past from Word Icon?

Trying
that here, though I use Open Office.

Actually
still testing.

Reason
was I was having problems stopping Bold letters from showing
up back at the "NWO of 1787" post. Where I did copy and paste
some.

<!-- @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } -->I didn’t paste from anything except that 1725 date that turned up small.

L’et tat,

Valid point about the Flood, but I was talking human autrocities.

You’re still missing the point about NA’s why cry about their genocide as we’re living on their land?  In other words, "Too bad they got wiped out, but I certainly enjoy the view!" 

Yes, we do agree on some matters. Thank you.

I hope some people feel embarrassed now.

As a fierce independent not toeing any party lines, it is interesting to see how the only people more intolerant than fundamentalist Christians are the far left liberals who are all about equality of beliefs unless one disagrees with them.

"She weeps, but she takes her share."

Holy freakin’ crap. It never ceases to amaze me how most people can’t have a decent, civilized debate or discussion on a subject like this. It almost always degrades into name calling, mud slinging and innuendo. Here’s some religion for you to discuss: God save me from ignorance. Of ALL kinds.

88

 I’m tired of seeing the Celtics blog at the top.