Updated throughout the day with quick takes from staff.
The Phoenix Suns will reportedly announce former NBA agent Lon Babby as their new head of basketball operations in a press conference Tuesday morning, according to SB Nation Arizona. Normally, this isn't something to write about, because he's not actually going to be the new general manager.
However, it's worth noting that this whole saga is kind of fishy. It's not as obvious as allegations of tampering with LeBron James or other top free agents, and it's probably not going to be as significant as the Joe Smith saga that killed the Timberwolves' progress early in the decade. And I'm not trying to suggest that Babby is not being hired on his merits, because he could very well be the right man for the job. But it's still strange and worth discussing.
Why? Lon Babby was formerly the agent of Josh Childress and Hedo Turkoglu, two clients that the Suns have acquired this summer.
Again, I'm not making an accusation here. I'm just trying to point out the whole sequence of events that led to Babby's hire. In particular, the Turkoglu trade.
I'll be honest: once I saw that the Toronto Raptors were able to get rid Turkoglu and his awful contract for a decent player on an expiring contract in Leandro Barbosa, I was confused. Honestly, did the Suns even watch Turkoglu last year? He's on the wrong side of 30, has been a mediocre to below-average player everywhere he's been except Orlando and has four more years left on his contract. The Suns generally seem to know what they're doing, so why would they take him on?
It got even odder when Turkoglu decided to waive his $5 million trade kicker, something you almost never see a player do. You could say Turkoglu really wanted out of Toronto, but I find it hard to believe the trade kicker was a deal-breaker. You don't agree to take on a $45 million contract, then haggle over having to pay a $5 million trade kicker, which gets paid out over the course of the contract. (Unless you're the Grizzlies, of course).
Finally, where does Turkoglu actually fit in with that roster? SB Nation Arizona talked to a Suns official who tried to defend the trade, saying Turkoglu will have a better attitude in Phoenix and will have more freedom to play his kind of game. He also said Turkoglu might play some power forward. It's a nice effort, but it falls flat for me. For one thing, Turkoglu is a terrible rebounder for a small forward and would be even worse at power forward. For another, while Turkoglu's season in Toronto was bad, it wasn't too far out of line with his career production. At best, it's an awkward fit. At worst? It's a terrible fit.
I'm not explicitly saying the Suns took on Turkoglu and Babby in a package deal. That would be an allegation I cannot prove. I am saying, however, that the Turkoglu trade, which was fishy to begin with, becomes even fishier now that the Suns have also hired Babby to be a part of their front office. In an era where many are complaining that the Heat tampered to get LeBron James, the Babby/Turkoglu saga certainly doesn't help with the perception that the league is turning a blind eye to illegal backhanded deals.
36 comments
Comments
How would the conspiracy work?
The Suns would overpay on a 45 Million dollar contract in order to get a front office guy that makes chump change in comparison?
Or maybe the new head of basketball operations for the Suns want to start off with a really terrible team so he can fail at his job?
Sorry, I can’t make sense of how these two things relate. Makes more sense that while applying for one job with the Suns Mr. Babby was doing his job for Turkoglu.
At the same time the Suns were back to doing a crappy job at the Front Office level.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?"
Joe Kapp
by lifelongvike on Jul 20, 2010 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
agree, where is the conspiracy
Seems like everything is above board. Perhaps Babby, who is well respected and has many high character clients, would like to try something new and make this team better! Imagine if that was the reasoning behind this!
Prada’s editorial piece appears to be mainly driven by a dislike for Turkoglu, if I’m reading between the lines.
See Babby’s induction as a keystone in the arch of the Suns organization at this point.
by t-northern on Jul 20, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
+ Alot
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 20, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Conspiracy?
Don’t forget about Grant Hill – he’s a Babby client too. The evidence is clear…
Sorry Mike, I know it’s July so I understand times are hard for the basketball bloggers not in South Beach or Cleveland… But I don’t follow the logic behind your conspiracy.
Is the conspiracy that an Agent (a well respected one at that) who has primarily ‘high-character’ players is negotiating contracts for them with a team that values ‘high-character’ players? That is quite the conflict.
Or is it that Babby has found a team that fits his clients’ skill sets and playing style? If Turkaglu is a terrible rebounder – wouldn’t PHX be a great fit for him? A place where the philosophy of ‘gang rebounding’ reigns? … yeah definitely something fishy about that.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Jul 20, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions
That's kind of backwards
The Suns were the second-worst defensive rebounding team in basketball last year – and the solution is to get more bad rebounders?
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
They got to the WCF homie.
They must be horrible.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Jul 20, 2010 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Gentry has addressed the rebounding issue a million times -
With how good our TS% and our OffEff are we don’t need to be top 10 in rebounds – just middle of the pack. And if you check our Total rebounding numbers – we were just that, the middle of the pack and that was enough to win us 50+ games and go 6 deep in the WCF.
It’s not like our previous PF was the most prolific rebounder the game has ever seen FYI.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Jul 20, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
going six deep in the WCF against the NBA Champs
fixed it for you…
Kobe Bryant is the Goran Dragic of America
by SunsFTW on Jul 20, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
They had the second-worst defensive rebound percentage in basketball
Total rebound numbers is a pointless stat because it inflates PHX’s numbers because of how fast they play.
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And yes, I agree you can succeed without being a great rebounding team
But it originally sounded like you said Hedo “fits” because he’s a bad rebounder on a bad rebounding team. That’s completely backwards. It’s not smart policy to make your weaknesses weaker.
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It's really not complicated.
Individual rebounding obviously isn’t an area of concern for the Suns system.
The Hedo trade is the most recent proof of that.
It’s a constant within the organization, not an anomaly. So what’s fishy then?
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Jul 20, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure...
but remember that they traded Barbosa’s 1 rebound a game for 5 rebounds a game and likely more since he will be in the middle. Now, we aren’t talking 7-9 a game, but already a shift from LB’s production to Hedo’s is a good move. I think yo make too much of Barbosa’s production and value.
I will admit that there was probably some connection between Babby getting Hedo to come over and Childress as well. But the fact that Hedo waves his trade kicker should be more of an indication that he wanted OUT of Toronto, not that Babby or the Sun’s FO was or is doing anything shady.
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jul 20, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Guys
Please do a simple “control F” for the word “conspiracy” in here. Notice how you’ll come up empty. Also, note how it’s very clearly stated that this isn’t suggesting Hedo and Babby came as a package deal.
It’s just an odd situation, and it doesn’t help the NBA’s perception issue. Therefore, questions should be raised.
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 1:10 PM EDT reply actions
Wowza.
It’s more than a little implied when you call it “fishy” basically three times. Can’t just get around that by saying that you aren’t trying to make an accusation.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 20, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Using the phrase "I'm not making an accusation here"
is like saying, “I don’t mean to offend.” You’re going to say something that is likely to offend, but it’s ok because you said you didn’t mean to offend before saying something offensive.
by SenSurround on Jul 20, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
No it's not
Because people use the phrase “no offense” to try to butter up an accusation before making it when talking to someone in person. It’s a social norm in everyday verbal conversation. This is being used to make clear that there’s no insinuation other than the whole situation is strange and worth wondering about.
I’ve heard this analogy several times today, and it holds no water with me every time.
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
How about this.
Posting it and wondering aloud about, in and of itself, is insinuation.
Fox News does this all the time.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Jul 20, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I get it.
And I don’t want to make it sound like I am coming after you. But you didn’t really give a good interpretation for your data. You just put it out there. If you don’t want people to think that you are calling a “conspiracy” then add your interpretation to the mix. Data by itself has no meaning. When you present the data the way you have, readers get the impression you are looking for wrong doing. If you aren’t, then provide another plausible explanation for the data.
Just a piece of journalistic advice
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jul 20, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Not really
I appreciate the advice, but the purpose of journalism is to ask questions and point out when things seem fishy.
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I also felt like it would be wrong for me to offer a specific opinion
When I am not on the inside here.
SB Nation DC | Bullets Forever | Twitter.
by Mike Prada on Jul 20, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
No I get that.
My point is that you didn’t offer anything that seemed “fishy.” You gave vague intimations that something might be going on but didn’t clarify. Then when people accused you of looking for conspiracy you got defensive about it. You can’t have it both ways.
I will put it this way. No piece of journalism goes without interpretation. Just writing the piece by itself contains interpretation. You’re piece did too. the problem is that you are backtracking trying to claim that it doesn’t. “There is no conspiracy” but at the same time “something is fishy.” Total contradiction.
Its not interpretation to interpret the facts at hand in a moderate way. If you don’t have enough to posit an interpretation then its not really ethical journalism to report at all.
Again…just a thought to consider.
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jul 20, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry..."your piece did that too" (not you're)
Reading is good...
by N8lol on Jul 20, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
So hold on. Let’s get this straight:
1. Nobody wanted to trade for Hedo Turkoglu, an aging player with a terrible contract, coming off a terrible season.
2. The Suns trade for him OUT OF THE BLUE. Literally nobody had pegged PHX as a possible destination for Hedo, and it’s still unclear why they’d ever make the deal, or how he makes PHX better.
3. The Suns hire Lon Babby, Turkglu’s agent, as their GM.
…That’s NOT shady? Keep deluding yourselves, Suns fans.
by Andrew Sharp on Jul 20, 2010 2:34 PM EDT reply actions
Nevermind that...
The Suns have been after Hedo since 2004. Or that Babby is president of basketball operations…not GM.
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 20, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
C'mon Scott
How would an offensive-minded forward who doesn’t rebound much EVER fit in with the Suns? Totally not their style of player.
The evidence here is clearly indisputable. Let’s stop deluding ourselves.
"I make my case against a stack full of comics. Here comes the line.... I'm loaded with rocket fuel!!"
- Mike Watt, The Minutemen
by RMason on Jul 20, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
Kobe Bryant is the Goran Dragic of America
by SunsFTW on Jul 20, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Word?
A lot of people were after Hedo in 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009. In 2010, after he limped his way through a crappy season with a gigantic contract? Not so much.
That is, until the Suns and Lon Babby became intermingled…
by Andrew Sharp on Jul 20, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on.
I don’t think Turk’s contract is that bad. He is getting somewhere near 9,5 mi this year. And he also reduced by half his guaranteed money in the last year of the contract. Is that truly bad for a player at 31 years old, 6-10 that hits big shots and has the capacity of leading a team on big games?
The Suns are tough!
by Diego Queiroz on Jul 20, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
People quick to criticize usually have short memories..
I mean it’s not like the Suns have ever had any success aquiring a player on the wrong side of 30 who does not rely on his athleticism… I mean what kind of crazy team would think that kind of move would work out??
by DUKE007 on Jul 20, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, like Nash, Hill, K. Thomas...
The Suns are tough!
by Diego Queiroz on Jul 20, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL
by bigredd1987 on Jul 20, 2010 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So what's the conspiracy then.
Let’s hit that salient point so that I can quit deluding myself.
Babby throwing himself on the sword and taking a gig to make his 2nd biggest client happy? (although he is saddling himself with a “bad contract”)
RIP Seasons of Discontent
by Scott Howard on Jul 20, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And I don't get one thing:
In order to get the Suns job, he had to decline all of his agents. And some of them had big contracts, like Tim Duncan. I can be wrong about that, but if that’s the case, I don’t think the Suns will pay him a lot more than he already made as an agent.
Someone please give me a hint, cos not so many people in this world would give dollars away for a chance of playing and working for the Suns (I know I would).
The Suns are tough!
by Diego Queiroz on Jul 20, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Assumptions
the main assumption that you’re working from here is that Turkoglu to the Suns doesn’t make sense in a legitimate trade. Over at Bright Side of the Sun, you’ll see that many of the fans are excited to have him in PHX and are actually optimistic about what he can bring to the team, despite the apparently obvious negative aspects of his game.
Unless we’re all prone to deluding ourselves into thinking the glass is half full (and I think we’re all prone more to negativity in all situations; I’m looking at you Scott), you’ll see why we have high hopes for this year with these moves that the Suns have made.
Fishy, maybe. Good trades for the Suns? Absolutely.
Crashing the [message] boards from the heart of Spurs Nation, San Antonio, Texas. GO SUNS!
gruntledpainter on Twitter
by PHXgp on Jul 20, 2010 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
Wait -
Why do I even care about what Mike Prada has to say about the Suns?
This isn’t the first time his lack of knowledge about the team has been illuminated by his careless writing – remember the ‘paper-thin’ Suns team he wrote about near the end of the season last year?
Oh now I remember why I care – because it’s July and I’m bored.
They say "don't swim with the sharks", but I'm faster than sharks so it's not a big deal...
by Eutychus on Jul 20, 2010 4:17 PM EDT reply actions
Let's start here:
What are the league’s rules regarding tampering? I can’t seem to find them anywhere.
Twitter: @MikeLisboa
by Mike Lisboa on Jul 20, 2010 9:38 PM EDT reply actions
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