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Should The Braves Demote Jason Heyward?

Jason Heyward is having a historically good season for a 20 year old position player. After surprisingly making the Braves Opening Day lineup after a strong Spring Training, Heyward homered in his first Major League at bat.

A wave of hype was born. He was elected as a starter for the National League All-Star team, and he was the subject of a fawning Sports Illustrated profile, capping what had been over a year of intense prospect hype. In April, Heyward was one of the most productive hitters in the game.

It isn't April anymore. Are the Braves getting enough out of playing Heyward every day to justify the millions of dollars this season will cost them down the road?

Star-divide

Since May 12, Heyward is hitting just .260/.361/.388 (227 plate appearances). Put another way, he's hitting .260 with no power. Heyward's earned the respect of pitchers around the Majors, and he's still getting on base at a decent clip, but the declining power is starting to become a problem. In his last five games, Heyward has theoretically gotten hot, going 12-21. However, all 12 of those hits are singles. On May 5th, Heyward had eight home runs on the season. He's hit three since. 

There was a reason Stephen Strasburg made his debut in June: it allowed the Nationals to control his rights for an additional year. The Braves went the other direction, sacrificing future dollars and a year of Heyward on the roster in exchange for his services now. It looked brilliant and bold in April. Now? Not so much.

Even if we grant that he's good defensively, Heyward's .750ish OPS isn't exactly irreplaceable, assuming that's his level for the rest of the season. Are the Braves benefiting in the short term by playing Heyward every day in Atlanta? No. Are they benefiting in the long run? Probably not. It's more likely they're hurting themselves.

Is Heyward benefiting from this? Perhaps, though he might also benefit from more time in the minors. Heyward's numbers have declined to the point that it isn't certain that he's a huge upgrade over bench options Matt Diaz and Eric Hinske, or what a random B-level trade acquisition might be.

Unless the Braves send Heyward down to the minors for the rest of the season, the service time issue is probably a lost cause at this point. However, some combination of more days off and or a short return to the minors might help the young slugger. Many point to his slow recovery from a thumb injury as an explanation for his offensive struggles. Although the injury took place on May 22nd, after he'd already cooled off, it may be contributing to his continued power-outage.

Heyward remains one of the most fascinating players in the game, and appointment viewing if you're a hardcore seamhead. Just last week, Fangraphs named him the second-most valuable asset in the game, ahead of Strasburg. Nevertheless, Heyward is just 20, and the list of 20 year old hitters who truly thrived at the Major League level is tiny. The easy way out would be for the Braves to stick with the status quo. That might not be the smart thing.

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This is an awful idea

For so many reasons.

1. The Braves have no better options

2. He’s had at least 2 hits in each of the past 6 games.

3. The poor play for the time frame you mention was due to having an injured thumb, which he was DL’d for and has since recovered.

4. He’s got the second highest wOBA on the team behind Martin Prado.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:08 AM EDT reply actions  

1. The Braves have no better options

Possibly this is true. Possibly. Far from certain however.

2. He’s had at least 2 hits in each of the past 6 games.

Yes, and they have all been singles.


3. The poor play for the time frame you mention was due to having an injured thumb, which he was DL’d for and has since recovered.

Maybe, maybe not. An injury isn’t some moral failing on his part. If he’s hurt and can’t drive the ball, then, umm, maybe he shouldn’t be playing?


4. He’s got the second highest wOBA on the team behind Martin Prado.

True. How much of that is based off of production that happen two months ago? He is still taking his walks, and Cox has hit him in the #2 slot a lot, which has helped the offense. Nevertheless, this season is literally costing the Braves millions and millions of dollars. When you do a cost-benefit analysis, I’m not sure it adds up for them.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

It isn’t possibly true that the Braves have no better options for every day right field play than Jason Heyward, it is absolutely true.

I didn’t realize singles were bad. He has been demolishing the ball regularly since returning from the DL.

Well, he wanted to play through the injury which was a mistake, told Cox he was injured and was put on the disabled list.

The Braves took the approach of waiting with Tommy Hanson and they missed the playoffs but were in contention the final week. They weren’t taking that risk for future dollars again this season.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow, your responses are about as poor as your article.

1. It is certain. Have you seen the other OF’s the Braves have? Please.

2. Actually, there were two doubles in the first game of that streak. On July 20th, he was 3-4 with 2 doubles. So please, check your facts. If you want to be taken seriously, failing to correctly state easily verifiable facts is not the way to do it.

3. It is a lot more likely than maybe. Yes, he probably shouldn’t have been playing. However, it wasn’t like he pulled a Jordan Schafer and hid the injury. Of course, he wanted to play through the injury, but he didn’t keep Braves management in the dark. The problem was that for much of the time that he was playing hurt (and poorly) the Braves just didn’t have enough healthy OFs to DL him—-once Diaz came back, Heyward went on the DL. Heyward basically took one for the team playing hurt.

4. If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting that the Braves, in a pennant race, demote their best outfielder and possibly second best hitter for the rest of the season to save one season of arbitration. If the Braves were out of the race, that could make sense. But they aren’t. They are trying to win now. Demoting your best players to save money five years from now is not the brightest idea when you are trying to win now. Let’s say the Braves save a full $20 million between 2013 and 2016 (the price of one full free agent season at the end less the price of one major league minium season) if they demoted Heyward now. Now, by demoting him, and not playing for this year, the Braves fail to make the playoffs and attendance falters as a result of this fan-unfriendly move. That’s probably gonna cost $10 million right there. Add in the time value of money, and we are probably looking at a few million dollars saved by demoting him. Add in the cost of the inevitable MLBPA grievance, which Heyward should rightfully win, since this would be a shameless example of demotion to prevent service time accumulation, and that further lowers the money saved. (And if they lost the grievance, like they should, they’d end up losing money because Heyward’s service time would be restored and the Braves would have gotten no benefit at all from their stunt.)

In sum, the cost benefit analysis does not support your position. If it did, no team would ever want to call up a minor league before they had to do so or lose him in the Rule 5 draft. If your cost-benefit analysis were correct and saving money in the future was all that mattered, not only should Heyward be demoted now, the Braves shouldn’t recall him until 2012, thereby saving another season of service time. Fortunately, for baseball, your analysis is horribly incorrect.

Your comparison to Strasburg proves the point. It made sense with Strasburg because the Nationals are not competing this year. The Braves are.

Finally, the second epic fail of your article is that you expect Heyward to perform the rest of the year like his has since May 12th, even though that time included about a month where he was playing hurt and hit poorly, and after spending two weeks on the DL has returned hitting better. Perhaps you should severely bruise your thumb so you can’t type these factually questionable articles with absolutely ridiculous suggestions.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, it isn't an argument altering fact.

Because the argument is pretty much without any discernible merit even if you don’t miss that. The biggest problems you miss are: A. The Braves are contenders unlike the Nats (with Strasburg as the comparison) and B. The injury affect making the “since May 12th” numbers highly questionable.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

wow
Because the argument is pretty much without any discernible merit

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Truth hurts, don’t it?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

deeply

I might never go online again.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I get that you are getting snippy...

…but you still haven’t answered the main point that the Braves are in a pennant race, and when you are in a pennant race, the goal is to put the best team you can out on the field, not worry about salary concerns five years in the future. You put out Strasburg as a comp., but fail to recognize the huge difference in the goals of the two different organizations.

As for your “wow” comment—-I did back up my belief that your argument had no discernible merit with concrete analysis. If you think otherwise, I would love to hear your analysis to the contrary.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

If there were some sort of alalysis to the contrary, I am sure he would have provided it by now.

Sadly for him, that does not exist.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I understand fully that the Braves are in contention

You just have to measure out the entire situation in total. Was it worth it to make the Mark Tex trade? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how much you value winning in that one year.

The other thing to consider, again, is that it isn’t clear that Heyward is helping the Braves hugely going forward. If you guys want to think he’s going to hit .300/.400/.600 the rest of the way, I’m not going to convince you otherwise. However, when you look at who Heyward might be for the next three months, the dropoff to another player probably won’t be that much.

Again, the list of guys who hit at an elite level at age 20 is tiny. Heyward is a beast, but he is 20.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, they should send him down to the minors because he MIGHT not help them in the future?

Again, you lack any statistical or analytical evidence to support your crazy idea.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even with his month of below-average offense due to his thumb, he’s in the top 30 in OPS in the NL. For all your blustering about how he won’t keep this kind of pace up, you keep treating his month with a bad thumb as his norm, when there is ZERO FACTUAL EVIDENCE of that being the case.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

what pace are we talking about?
For all your blustering about how he won’t keep this kind of pace up

the fact that he’s hit .450 for a week?

or his season long pace? (which has been dropping since May anyway… look at his game-log of to date OPS)

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, what do you think his production for the rest of this season will be?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about this...

…how about you look at all the facts? You keep talking about his numbers dropping since May—-yet you don’t acknowledge that they have risen since he did the DL stint and got healthier. Essentially, you want to say, he was bad in June (and he was, he was horrible), so injury be damned, he is likely going to be bad the rest of the season. You dress it up a bit, but that is the essence of your argument. And that argument just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

actually I said he still hasn't hit with any power

which is troubling

the BA is going to fluctuate all over the place over short periods of time. I love his patience, which will stabilize his performance somewhat. However, there’s no denying his power has evaporated. I’m sure it will come back eventually, I just don’t think it will happen this year.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

His power HAS evaporated when you eliminate the XBHs from his stats.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if you ignore that whole thumb problem deal.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Erroneous! Erroneous on all accounts!

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heyward ISO

April .280
May .291
June .064 (clearly injured)
July .051 (39 ABs)

So you’ve decided that a .280+ ISO is unrealistic (it probably is), but that his recent ISO is much more indicative of how he’ll perform (it isn’t)?

Seriously dude, just add a post script to your article saying you were wrong. You just look sad here.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously it’ll be .001.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

ZIPS projection is .174, I’d say that’s in the reasonable range. Between .160 and .190, which is currently far better than anything we could expect from other outfielders on the team.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I predict it will be better than any other Braves OFer and probably better than any OF not named Jason Werth that is traded this offseason.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s been back for 9 games. Gee, what a huge sample size you have.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

So basically if we disregard every time he played well and only looked at when he struggled, then he can’t keep it up. Brilliant analysis.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't insight a bitch?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

This argument makes no sense.

You are essentially arguing that Heyward will possibly/likely not be good the rest of the season based upon about a month of poor production while playing through an injury. Do you really think the month of June (which is where the bad numbers from your sample came from) is the best indicator of his future performance? Or would the full year sample be better? Heyward as a 128 OPS+, essentially tied for the top on the team. Any replacement would be far less. So unless you think that Heyward will do significantly worse than his season averages to date for the rest of the year, sending him down would be a significant downgrade. Let’s face it, if the Braves had a passable solution in right other than Heyward, that guy would already be playing in left!

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s face it, if the Braves had a passable solution in right other than Heyward, that guy would already be playing in left!

except I’ve read like 10 comments in this very thread saying the braves would never do this for PR/image reasons

look, if you want to believe that 100% of his struggles are attributable to his injury, then go ahead, I’m not going to convince you

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoosh.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you weren’t trying to convince anyone you wouldn’t have 20 posts in your own comment section defending your poorly researched article.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can you show ANYTHING to suggest otherwise? He struggled for the last 2 weeks of April without injury being the cause. THAT’S IT. The rest of the season he’s been crushing while healthy or doing poorly DUE to injury.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

if 100% of his struggles were due to injury

you are completely right

I don’t think you are giving the history of the game enough credit, or the pitchers of the NL enough credit. Heyward is 20 years old. It would be truly remarkable, like a once in a generation thing, if he was a 1.000 OPS player at the age of 20. There is almost no precedent for that.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or..

He’s around an .850 OPS player, which is far better than anything in the Braves’ outfield.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, if and only if, he OPSes 1.000 or better for the rest of this season, they should keep him up? If that were the standard, there would be about 8 MLB OFers.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

So then why is the ONLY time he’s struggled been 2 weeks in April and in June when he couldn’t swing the bat? Why is the book on him not working on him right now? Did the DL stint make everyone throw the book away?

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

+ a million

Your points are excellent, and shouldn’t have to spelled out to someone who supposedly understands baseball. Since, apparently, they do have to be spelled out, thank you for doing so.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

You obviously haven't seen the singles he's hitting.

These aren’t bloop hits we’re talking about. These are the kinds of line drives that could end a pitcher’s season if he doesn’t react fast enough. If you had actually been watching J-Hey the last week, you would be able to see that the XBH’s returning are only a matter of time.

And if you think that the Braves have another outfielder that could produce as well as Heyward has the past week, then you aren’t very familiar with Atlanta’s roster.

by J-Turn14 on Jul 26, 2010 2:31 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh jeez

You’re not watching the games are you? His singles are line drives, they just happen to be right at people. Easy doubles if they find the right gaps, call it unlucky if you will.

by BravesRaleigh on Jul 26, 2010 2:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Ugh.

There is so much fail in this article. Not only is it wrong, it’s just poorly timed. If you had written this before he was put on the DL, you may have gotten someone to agree with you, but you simply waited too long. He’s killing the ball right now. I hate using batting average for a debate as much as the next guy, but the guy his batting .441 this month. That doesn’t happen by mistake. Not only is he getting hits, his hits are getting to the outfield in a hurry.

Twitter: @jmccarroll21

by Mc21 on Jul 26, 2010 2:47 AM EDT reply actions  

when did he get hurt?

because as far as I can tell, his numbers were going down before that

and again, that still doesn’t speak to the issue of whether or not he should be playing hurt in the first place

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

No, but...

…as I noted above, he played hurt mostly because the Braves didn’t have anyone else who was healthy enough to play at all. Once Diaz came back, Heyward went on the DL. That being said, given the difference in production, Heyward should have been put on the DL earlier and some scrub called up. But given that Heyward didn’t hide the injury from the Braves, that’s the fault of management, not Heyward.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

May 14

Sliding headfirst into 3rd base.

"If I had a little humility, I would be perfect" - Ted Turner

by Little Lady on Jul 26, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which actually didn't bother him at first too much...

…but then a little over a week later, he got jammed inside on a pitch and aggravated the injury. That’s when his performance started to suffer.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will

Love the work you do over at Royals Review so was excited to see an idea of yours surrounding a Braves topic since they are my favorite team. Loved the fact you tackled a topic that was sure to draw the ire of all the fanbase since you had something negative to say about our savior.

That said, I have a couple points to raise:

1) With Bobby Cox intent on platooning Diaz/Hinske, they can’t really be viewed as options to permanently replace Heyward as one or the other is already in the lineup. Also, if you completely remove Heyward from the equation, the Braves are left with outfield options of Diaz, Hinske, McLouth, Cabrera, Infante, and AAA replacement. Regardless of Heyward’s loss of power in recent months, doesn’t any outfield combination of that group lead to a significant decrease in offensive AND defensive production?

2) I understand you define this as more of a long-term rather than short-term problem for the Braves. But, with Atlanta having already missed the postseason four years in a row (which I understand doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to a Royals enthusiast), doesn’t the team have to do what is in its best interest for this season? Obviously the Braves aren’t a big market club, but where is the line drawn when determining whether or not to sacrifice long-term dollars for short-term glory?

by Doz on Jul 26, 2010 3:41 AM EDT reply actions  

good points

maybe heyward is simply the best option they have, to such a degree, that the braves are stuck

I guess it depends on what you think his true ability is, going forward, in 2010. From the numerous comments above, supposedly he’s hitting the ball harder than anyone ever born in the last week.

Saying Jason Heyward may not be incredibly awesome in the second half of 2010 takes nothing away from his future.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

No it doesn't, but...

…saying that Heyward may not be any good in the second half of 2010 based on a small sample size heavily skewed with numbers from when he was playing hurt is highly questionable in and of itself. Heyward’s splits tell the story:

April (healthy): .240/.360/.520 .880 OPS
May (mostly healthy): .337/.453/.628 1.081 OPS
June (thumb injury): .181/.287/..245 .532 OPS
July (after returning from DL, but small sample size): .436/.522/.487 1.009 OPS

To me, at least, that tells the story—-he’s been good or great when healthy, he obviously couldn’t hit at all during the worst of the thumb injury. I think doing the full splits tells more than cherry-picking a sample from a random date without acknowledging the injury during the time period, don’t you?

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess we'll just have to see going forward

I doubt he’s going to keep hitting .436 for this month. The issue is his power and if it will come back. Given that he’s 20 years old, it just might simply not be there yet.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the Braves can't use an OF hitting .300 with a nearly .400 OBP?

That’s his floor.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Even if you think Heyward sticks to his current rates, he’d end with:

.276/.387/.459/.846, 27 2B, 5 3B, 20 HR, 86 RBI, 86 BB, 134 SO

Minus the SO (which were a product of his bad thumb), I wouldn’t be disappointed in those numbers.

And that is assuming he doesn’t go on a ridiculous tear at any point in the next 2+ months.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

part of the issue is that the braves are exchanging a season of those numbers

for a season of his prime

that’s really what it comes down to

I can grant you the point that he should probably be playing/braves don’t have options better. Less sure about the overall issue of him playing a full season this year.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you really think...

the Braves are not going to offer him move heaven and earth to sign him to a long term contract way before his 6 years are up?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

They probably will

but that doesn’t change the essential fact that they are now going to have to do that earlier. that extra year is going to be paid for, one way or the other

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your argument would have made sense back in Spring Training – when several of us were making the same argument.

Those several of us were dead wrong then and you are dead wrong now.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well good

as long as we’re evaluating 6-7 year decisions based on two months, we’re set

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

The only one who is basing an argument on 2 months of data is you.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yeah, but I don't think those were right, too...

…I remember those arguments. And it really wasn’t that much money saved unless you waited until June to call him up—-because otherwise you are just trading a free agent season for a fourth year of arbitration, and that is close to free agent price anyway.

And really, it was the same reason—-if the Braves are contenders the value of one extra win is higher for them than for other teams. If he can give that in a contending season, you take it and make your run.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly, which is why I said we were wrong then.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I should finish reading the post...

…before responding. My bad. I need to work on my tag-team skills. ;)

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hahaha. It’s all good.

The Rock hit Mankind on accident once or twice too.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

What’s the ultimate goal? To win the World Series. Thanks in part to Jason, we are putting ourselves in a position to do so.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

No,

obviously the ultimate goal is to keep control of your prospects for the maximum time at the minimum cost, so you can…uh….have them for when…you…ahhh…… never mind.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think they're going to keep having World Serieses in the future

I don’t know if there’s been an announcement on that yet, but I’m pretty sure it’s happening.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

So?

The future never gets here.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was one announcement made though – this is Bobby Cox’s last year, and the 2010 Atlanta Braves are the best team in the National League, thanks in no small part to Jason Heyward.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

You know what they say about a bird in the hand?

There’s no guarantee that the Braves will be a playoff contender the year after Heyward’s first Free Agent offseason… I can guarantee you that they are one this year and will be one for at least a couple more seasons without having to make too many roster adjustments… 6 years from now? who knows?

by J-Turn14 on Jul 26, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

In his prime...

Will the Braves have this good a team, one that’s played some of the best baseball in the game for more than two months and is capable of winning a World Series?
Will a Hall of Fame manager be playing his last season?
Will two Hall of Fame players be in theirs?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

Yes, Heyward does hit the ball harder than most people ever born when he’s healthy. Long-time observers of the game, including veteran players, broadcasters, journalists, and figures no less than Bobby Cox and Hank Aaron have remarked about the sound the ball makes coming off of his bat. And that’s something that’s been true far longer than the last week.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

If J-Hey is the best RF they have

He should be playing. This is the best shot that the Braves have had at a World Series since their streak, and they need their best players playing.

by Jamee999 on Jul 26, 2010 7:14 AM EDT reply actions  

WOW

Are you this big of a moron? Jason heyward is one of the reasons the braves are in first place right now. If J-Hey would have not hurt his thumb, he would have 20+ HR’s, 65+ RBI’s, .290+ AVG, .400+ OBP!!!, .480Slug. He was putting up MVP caliber numbers before the injury. Pretty sure I would rather him than melky…right?

by ZackJones on Jul 26, 2010 8:56 AM EDT reply actions  

If you follow the Braves regularly, you know that the clubhouse is supremely confident right now and the team’s morale is sky high. The players voiced their desire for Heyward to play at the beginning of the season. Demoting him now, while on a hot streak, would be the ultimate “ULTRA” dumb move and an insult to everyone on the team.

I understand the point of your article is based more on the contractual side of Heyward playing, but we’ve made that decision and simply can’t go back. I agree with your point, him playing is going to cost us millions.

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Jul 26, 2010 9:01 AM EDT reply actions  

that may be the issue here bwell

the braves made their decision and they can’t go back

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

The key is that they made the best decision for the 2010 team. A .260/.361/.388 Heyward is still the best player in the Braves outfield. Thing is, the thumb can be directly attributable to Heyward’s struggles and he is looking more and more like the Heyward we saw in earlier this season.

"Check out this bitchin' homemade tesla coil!"

by bwellnjonesco on Jul 26, 2010 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cooled off?

“Many point to his slow recovery from a thumb injury as an explanation for his offensive struggles. Although the injury took place on May 22nd, after he’d already cooled off…”

From May 1-May 22, .357/.464/.661/1.124, 6 2B, 1 3B, 3 HR, 14 RBI, 11 BB, 5 SO

From May 16-22, .300/.382/.567/.949, 3 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 5 RBI, 4 BB, 4 SO

See, there are these things called statistics that are kept on every player that are readily accessible to anyone with the brain power of a kangaroo. You may want to check them out sometime before you make yourself look really dumb. Just FYI.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 9:24 AM EDT reply actions  

hmm... good numbers to look at

although they keep jumbling around in my field of vision as I hop

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then I’ll put it much simpler:

He was crushing from May 1 to May 22 and from May 16 to May 22, he was still crushing.

Even simpler: Your statement was completely wrong.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wrong date of injury

Agreed with most of the comments so far. Furthermore, you misstate when the injury occurred. The original slide that jammed his thumb took place on May 14. He wasn’t withheld from the lineup as a result until May 23 but May 14 is when the injury could have started affecting his performance.

(See http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/06/06/hitting-coach-says-heywards-thumb-is-bothering-him/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog)

by epatl on Jul 26, 2010 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

ALSO...

For anyone who has watched the Braves play…

Heyward is our BEST fielding outfielder AND our best baserunner on the entire team.

He doesn’t need any more “seasoning” or “teaching” at the minor league level.

He needs a healthy thumb. Period.

by HalleyGator on Jul 26, 2010 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Owned.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh no doubt

I’ve written about my desire for former braves so many times, it almost seems like I’ve never done it.

Seriously though, I laughed at bmac’s line. I want Pete Orr.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec’d.

"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones

by MBL1 on Jul 26, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is possibly the dumbest thing I’ve read in a long time.

First off, the stat of having multi hit games in a row is hilarious because you conveniently leave out his 2 double performance.

Then you mention declining power to become a problem. I have to ask how so and why? When JHey came up, he was a polished and pure hitter. Power wasn’t the part of his repertoire. It was the added benefit of his gaining 25 lbs since last season and was not part of why he was the #1 Prospect in all of baseball.

Fact is that first off, rookie hitters are gonna have ups and downs and since the end of May to the end of June, Heyward had an injury that he tried to play through to benefit his team and ended up hurting things worse than he helped.

Since coming back when his batting average had fell to a .247 mark he has hit nearly .500, only striking out 6 times, and SMASHING rockets with his incredibly violent swing.

Fact is that you are wrong and just made you look completely dumb by taking the time to write out this garbage.

by TheEdge on Jul 26, 2010 10:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Forgot to add, should Ichiro and Prado be sent to the Minors too? I mean all those singles they hit, that sure is concerning since they don’t have a ton of XBHs.

by TheEdge on Jul 26, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also Mauer. I mean he lost all the power he had from last year as well. May as well send him down to.

Greinke seems to be having an off year on the mound, lets send him down while we are at it.

Your reasoning lacks any type of intelligible knowledge whatsoever.

by TheEdge on Jul 26, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

If by “for no reason” you mean “trying to win a World Series in 2010” you are correct.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is this another Royals issue?

Can you not understand that some teams are, for good reason, actually trying to win now instead of worrying about salary considerations five years in the future? With a five game lead in the division, shouldn’t the Braves be trying to win now? If not, why not?

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm fully aware of that, yes

If a mild upgrade in RF is worth a year of Heyward’s peak and probably around $20 million dollars, then you can justify the gamble.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mild?

Seriously, just try to imagine the scenario. Braves up by 5 games, in a fight to win the division, and they send their hot-hitting phenom, possible ROY to the minors. Just really think about it. Seriously?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

lets check back in a week

I understand that he is absolutely hitting the most fiercely struck singles of all time right now, I simply want to see what his line looks like moving forward.

One thing you are probably right about, however, is that the Braves WON’T demote him. Obviously they’ve established they’re committed to having him up all season, as evidenced by their earlier mismanagement of his injury.

Nevertheless, just because something won’t happen, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t discuss it.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, this is one of those things that we shouldn’t be discussing.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you have it wrong there.

It doesn’t cost the Braves a year of Heyward’s peak and $20 million dollars—-just one or the other—-either we are paying him the $20 million and we get the year or we don’t get the year, but we don’t pay him the $20 million.

Also, your thought misses a second point—-at whatever age he first hits the bigs, he is going to have to adjust to major league pitching. His first season, in all likelihood, is always going to be less than later seasons. I don’t think there is any particular reason to believe that would be any different if he first came up at age 21 instead of first coming up at age 20. He is sporting a 128 OPS+ right now; clearly he belongs in the majors. He is going to have to get the growing pains out of the way at some point. Yes, it costs us more money 5 or 6 years from now, but sending him down now would probably make him perform less well next year, so we are losing some value to save some money—-not counting the money lost due to declining attendance and the possible loss of playoff games from pulling this stunt.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mild upgrade?

Here are the Braves team leaders in OPS+ this season, not including Alex Gonzalez who has only been here for a few games:

Martin Prado 129
Brian McCann 129
Eric Hinske 128
Jason Heyward 128
Troy Glaus 113
Chipper Jones 111
Omar Infante 103

Everyone else with enough AB’s to qualify: below 100.

How does sending down a guy who is essentially tied for being your best hitter while you are in a penant race make any sense, whatever money it costs in the future? Isn’t the goal to win championships?

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously, the goal is to keep your best players in the minors so you can control them for longer. Because, when you control them for longer, they are on your team longer, and when they are on your team longer, you have more control of them.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

'bird

I am fully aware that Heyward has good numbers. He also hit .350/.450/.700 or whatever for two weeks back in April. I’m simply trying to think about what he might hit over the rest of the season.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And what do you suppose that number might be?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

you first.... :)

seriously, through like a zillion comments and insults I’ve taken, this is what it comes down to

if you think Heyward is going to post a .750 or even a .800 OPS the rest of the way, you can make a plausible argument that he should be demoted

the braves have a 5 game lead over the phillies, and the downgrade between that version of Heyward and someone else, isn’t likely to be worth more than maybe a win over the rest of the season

if you think heyward is going to have a .850 or .900 or 1.000 OPS the rest of the way, then obviously he probably shouldn’t be demoted

people attributing ALL of his struggles to injury are making a very convenient argument. there’s a scouting report out on him now

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, you first. I am not the one makind ridiculous claims.

Tell me what you think Heyward’s production will be the rest of the season. Since, you admit, is the only basis of your argument.

Also, if you don’t want to take any insults, don’t write crap.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I don't mind the insults

or obviously I wouldn’t be here

I just don’t take them seriously

His ZIPS projection the rest of the way is .275/.357/.434, which looks reasonable to me

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

..and would be an improvement over any other Braves’ outfielder. How is it reasonable to send him down, given that worst case scenario?

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you think that warrants sending him down?

Look at the last however many WS teams you want and find me a team where all three OFers had better lines than that.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course it seems reasonable to you; you think he’s still riding high off 1 month of play.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem with your argument is...

…as I detailed in a different post, Heyward was far better in May than in April. It is not like he was white hot out of the gate and then steadily fell. He was good in April, then great in May, and then really bad in June. And now since he has returned from the DL in July, he has been good. I think that makes it more likely that the poor play was due to the injury rather than to there being a book out on him.

Even if he OPS’d .800 the rest of the way (and I think it will be higher, based on his production thus far), he is still a far better option than anyone else currently on the Braves roster. He would have to get down to around .750 or lower to be equal to the guys who would replace him. I just don’t see that happening—-for all his June struggles, Heyward is still seventh in the NL in OBP.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I think it read something like this:

“Cannot grip bat, thus cannot hit. Throw whatever you’d like as long as it’s a strike, because he’s not swinging at bad pitches regardless.”

How’s that “scouting report” going lately?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s a top 10 RF in the Majors right now, I would strongly doubt that any of those other 9 RF’s are available.

by JFP on Jul 27, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plenty of reasons

First off, keep in mind that it’s Bobby’s last year. I think the consensus was going in that everything possible should be done to send him out a winner. Not bankrupting the club for the next 5 years, but he certainly deserved to have all the talent available in the system.

Heyward did play hurt for some time and wasn’t doing much to help the club over that span. During the rest of the season, however, he’s been electric. He’s been hitting second for a long time, so his on-base is probably his most important number, not home runs. He doesn’t have to carry this club, but getting his time in and having some important spots should help him in the long run.

You should be aware of how much fans in Atlanta have loved him this season. He’s really helping to get a lot of people in this city excited about the braves again. Even if it seemed to make financial sense at this point, the fans would be thoroughly disappointed. The kid sells more than his fair share of tickets, jersey’s etc, so he’s making a pretty obvious monetary contribution this year. These would be hard to figure out for sure, but how many millions do you think he’s making the club right now?

Anyway, there’s way too many intangibles to think about sending him down. A year ago, people may have said the same thing about trading Francoeur, but Heyward is no Francoeur

by Marteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen on Jul 26, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Impossible to say of course

Although revenue from jerseys and other merchandise goes into the general MLB pot. Then again, all those Heyward jerseys are walking adverts for the Braves.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

FOR NO REASON?

really? really?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Power wasn't a part of Heyward's repertoire?

You have seen his 190 minor-league career ISO, right? Out of, as many who’ve mentioned, a kid who’s only 20.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

This article will be deleted from my memory by Jason Heyward in 3…2…

"Tony Gwynn made sacrifices. Cal Ripken made sacrifices. I'm not sure Derek Jeter made sacrifices given the ungodly deep pockets the Yankees have." - Chipper Jones

by MBL1 on Jul 26, 2010 12:43 PM EDT reply actions  

wow

this article is idiotic. Cant say i’ll be ready much of this site anymore…

by billionm16 on Jul 26, 2010 12:47 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm thinking this article is actually a big joke, right?

This was coming, right?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I just saw this and thought it might be relevant.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:10 PM EDT reply actions  

I still don’t get this…it’s been up for like an hour, and I have no clue what it means.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go on…

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments in sum...

How dare you suggest this! How dare you! You are dumb like a kangaroo(?)! You don’t get the concept of “winning.” How dare you! Bobby Cox. If pesky fielders hadn’t gotten in the way of those recent singles you’d be writing an article comparing J-Hey and Willie Mays. Just wait. Just wait. Braves 2010.

How dare you!

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 1:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Actually, some of the comments...

…have coherent analysis. Moreso than the original article, in fact. Other comments, do, however, reference kangaroos. ;)

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your comment in sum....

“I obviously can’t read, or I would see some excellent arguments being made, as well as a couple of barbs, which the author should expect when writing such a …. controversial…article.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s not even controversial. It’s just dumb.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

trying to be nice.....

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correct.

I cannot read. I keep Melville as my avatar because it’s a real chick magnet.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah....

Well, maybe you should stick to the classics.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL @ a Royal fan talking about winning.

Good stuff.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Don’t you have a blog about Jeff Francoeur that you can contribute to?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

There really should be. FJM-style.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or you can sum it up with his statement that

It is “Possibly this is true. Possibly. Far from certain however,” that the Braves have better options in RF than Jason Heyward.

And

“Yes, and they have all been singles.” Apparently, singles are bad. Those who hit singles are not doing their job well enough. Silly me, I thought getting on base was the most important factor in baseball. He later acknowledged that not all of his hits were singles, but the original argument was nonsense.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mr. .368 OBP clearly is not helping this team out.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually...

…Heyward’s OBP is .387.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even worse.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

They don’t put OBP on the scoreboard /frenchy

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder what Frenchy says now...

…since they do put OBP on the scoreboard now. It certainly hasn’t changed his hitting style, lol.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet I could K frenchy. All you have to do is give him a curve somewhere in the vicinity of the opposite batter’s box.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Heyward doesn’t hit HRs anymore because he learned how much of a rally killer they can be.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's send Derek Jeter down

Yankees have better SS options and he only hits singles.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jeter has something Heyward does not – Calm Eyes.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

He hides his Calm Eyes..

with the sunglasses.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

He clearly needs time in the minors to figure out the Calm Eyes part of his game.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Article in sum...

Send Jason Heyward to the minors. I don’t care if he is one of the best hitters on the team. He had a bad stretch for about 4 or 5 weeks. What? He had an injured thumb? Well, I don’t care. Send him to the minors. It will save the Braves money in the long run. What? It won’t save them any money in the long run? I don’t care. Send him to the minors. The Braves need to save him for future seasons instead of wasting him this season. What? They are legit World Series contenders and need him? I don’t care, send him to the minors. He can easily be replaced by someone from their farm system. What? He is the best outfielder in their entire organization? I don’t care. Send him to the minors.

I have no statistical or logical reason for saying that they should send him to the minors. I don’t care. Send him to the minors.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I bet you think Jeff Francoeur and Oliver Perez would be great gets for KC.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

I must hand it t the author.

This is no doubt creating page views, and page views are the key to a successful internet page… kind of like a .380+ OBP can be the key to a good offense…

by J-Turn14 on Jul 26, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

?

Shouldn’t all you Brave-heads be thanking the Royals instead of chiding us? We eliminated the biggest threat to your future big-league success by signing Dayton Moore to a lifetime contract.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

We've not chiding the Royals.

If this article were written by ANYONE on earth, it would be just as stupid.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Royals connection just makes it humorously stupid.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

the royals connection is irrelevant

being a fan of a bad team says nothing about anything relating to that fan

or do you think Yankee fans are the smartest fans in baseball?

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yankees fans don’t want to send Heyward to the minors…they want to trade for him.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

God, I hope chide still means what I think it means...

“You blog for the Royals. You clearly won’t like any Braves player until he’s past his prime, or been a total bust.”

“Is this another Royals issue?”

“LOL @ a Royal fan talking about winning.

Good stuff."

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay..

I’m not chiding the Royals.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

btw...

Your “I dig Melville” and “I know the definition of words like chide” vibe is not getting it done. Maybe you should tone that down.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I really don't know what you mean by not getting it done...

but I certainly feel the vibe that I’m not on my A+ game. Please direct me to the Talking Chop commenting fantasy camp.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well actually...

“not getting it done” was a sort of euphemism for “comes off as smarmy and condescending”. I have that southern female trait of not wanting to be rude to your face.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

What can you do with a BA in English again?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Moore was more than fine here.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...

This might be the absolute worst post I’ve ever seen on this website. Heyward currently leads the Braves’ outfield with a .371 wOBA, 133 wRC+, and 2.5 WAR, despite missing time to the DL and playing injured for a long stretch.

But yeah, let’s send him to the minors to save money in the future.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:03 PM EDT reply actions  

But he played bad when he was hurt, so he obviously is going to have terrible production from here on out! Duh!

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

he hit great in April

obviously he’ll do so for the rest of this season!

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fail.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yay research!

wOBA by months

April .383
May .455
June .244
July .454

he hit poorly in June, obviously he’ll do so for the rest of the season!

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait, he had an injured thumb that every Braves follower knew about and suggest he be taken out of the lineup? Such a convenient argument!

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The funniest part about this was that even with the injury, Heyward was still about as valuable as every other Braves outfielder in a full-time role. Now that he isn’t injured, he’s probably the best hitter on the entire team.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or his ability to see more pitches per at bat than any Brave.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that the standard?

Do we now measure all baseball players on such an absurd standard?

Pujols doesn’t hit .450. No one does…Not even Ted Williams.

What if he “only” hits .275 for the rest of the season? Is that terrible? I can show you many teams that have worse…And once again, have you seen the other Brave options? Seriously. Isn’t it a bit telling that Heyward still is 3rd on our team in OPS? And that includes is bad stretches and the good ones…

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

everyone is yelling at me that HE'S BACK

because he’s got a high BA with no power and no walks since he’s back from the DL, or during this last week, or whatever it is

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoops.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

He’s back because he has had at least 2 hits in 6 consecutive games. Tell me one player on earth you wouldn’t take that from.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course I'd take it

I just don’t think it’s indicative of much of anything down the line. guys go on crazy BA streaks all the time.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Custer did a better job of defending his position.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

13.0

BB% since being back. Once again, look at the numbers before you post. You keep digging a bigger hole.

Isn’t this a numbers first site? Do you get demerits for posting something this awful on the main page, when you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about?

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

See my comments below...

Given the other OF options, a player hitting .400+ for two weeks is exciting…even if they were just singles (which not all are).

Imagine if you are in a bar with a bunch of fat chicks for hours and hours. Then a mildly attractive, slightly plump gal walks in. How do you feel? Given your options, would you stick with the fat chicks?

Okay, maybe this is a horrible analogy (since I don’t think of Heyward as a slightly plump, mildly attractice girl) and I probably offended all Braves fans and fat chicks, but come on. You’ve got to see the problem we are facing when Heyward ISN’T on the field.

We don’t NEED him to be amazing, just way better than the other guys…

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fat chicks need loving too.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

-1

for the fat chick argument.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what is so frustrating arguing this point with you.

You start with a premise that is way out on a limb, and then you make small factual mistakes (always in the direction of your argument) trying to defend your idea. Yes, just like your failure to acknowledge the two doubles, you now state Heyward has had no walks since returning from the DL when, in fact, he has had plenty—-6 in 9 games. I know you are defending a tough position, but at this point you have to have figured out that we are going to catch you on any factual error you make.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just like Custer, he is sticking it out to the end.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

And just like Custer, the Braves are on the winning side.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, he can't take credit for that....

…Josh Hamilton apparently learned the secret at the start of JUne.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who suggested he did that?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Jul 30, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Out of curiosity

Who should the Braves have instead of Heyward? Seriously. Assuming that we don’t make a move for another bat, who plays in his place? Here are your options: Matt Diaz, Eric Hinske, Nate McLouth, Melky Cabrera, Gregor Blanco, Omar Infante or any other AAA player…

I agree with you that Heyward is not Matt Holliday or Albert Pujols or another superstar, but he is head and should better than the other options CURRENTLY ON THE BRAVES.

Yes, if we had an outfield of Holliday, Ichiro and Matt Kemp, send him down…We don’t…We already have to have two of the above options in the lineup (have you seen McLouth play? Really?). Given that we are 5 games up in the NL East, it is not a stretch to say that the Phillies can’t catch the Braves (especially if Oswalt comes aboard)…The Braves need the best team that they can have on the field for this season…right now. Forget 5 years from.

So, who do you put in his place? Seriously? Who?

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is a good point Jman

I am not sure they necessarily have a definite upgrade. It depends on what you think of un-splitting the Diaz/Hinske combo. It would also help if Nate McLouth was still alive.

It just isn’t that hard to find .750-.800 OPS guys in trades or the waiver wire however.

I’m not sure I understand what you are saying about the Phillies? Can they catch the Braves or not?

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it’s not hard, then I wonder why the Braves haven’t found one to play LF or CF.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

They DON’T have a definite upgrade over their best OFer. This isn’t even debateable.

And yes, it is hard to find a .750-.800 OPS OF in a trade – or else the Braves would have that guy in LF already.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would have had that player the past four seasons.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

But, they are so easily and readily available. Every team can trade for one. It’s simple economics. There are more players in the MLB who post .750-.800 OPS than there are positions to play. That is why every team has at least 3 guys on their bench who they try to dump on other teams at the trading deadlines.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

the average NL OPS, including pitchers, is .730

these guys can be had and found

sure there’s a price, but the braves are paying a steep price for heyward right now

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Braun, duh! All you have to do is give up Tehran, Delgado, Freeman and Minor. That is totally worth keeping Heyward down…you know, so we can have him in the future.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’ll have him in the future. I’d also like to have Tehran, Minor, Delgado, Vizcaino etc in the future – and we can’t have those guys if we are going to trade for someone who will outproduce Heyward the rest of the season – which, by the way, would have to be someone like Jason Werth.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again,

Sending him down would certainly hurt our chances of retaining him in the future after his arbitration years.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who knows really

it could also remind him that the Braves still have leverage and that he’s a long way from a payday

who knows how he’d emotionally/mentally react

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

How would knowing he doesn’t have any current leverage positively impact his decision to stay here when he DOES have leverage?

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

because

putting someone in their place is the best way to garner their affection.

by BrockSamson on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

League min is not a steep price.

Again, if they are so readily available, can you list some? I can think of 1 or 2 off the top of my head. Can you name at least 5?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That also includes every position, which doesn’t help the Braves.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, you are saying that the Braves, in order to have Heyward for the future, should trade some of their future players for a guy who is going to provide minimal increase to what Heyward would provide?

Logic fail.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

false similarities fail

you don’t have to trade future stars, or even future big leaguers to find a generic .750 hitter

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Have you seen the price for Cody friggin’ Ross?

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thank god, even Ross is no longer on the market, according to the latest out of Miami.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have yet to name any .750+ OPS guys who are readily available.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You made the claim. The burden of proof is on you.

Or, you could just end all of this and admit your idea is terrible.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will,

I do advise you to just end all of this now. You risk something by perpetuating the argument. Maybe hired goons.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

How ridiculous is your statement?

You seem to be saying that the fact that Will’s assertion has been soundly refuted = defenders of Heyward are goons.

Great reasoning, Mr. Melville-picture-guy.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL. That's what you think I mean?

And I love how much you’re throwing it in my face that I randomly selected that pic however many years ago, as if it’s some indelible part of my persona/self-reflexive commendation for my intellectual prowess.

I believe I just thought that old Herm looked like a giant hard-ass at the time. These kind of portraits make me laugh.

Anything else, Mom?

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are the one...

who went out of the way to let me know that not only can you read, but you have Melville as your avatar.

Also, if you didn’t mean that, please explain what you did mean by saying he was risking “hired goons”

If I were your mother, you would have more sense than to pull for the Royals.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don’t think I was being that smarmy, egregious, or condescending by replying to a jerk-ish comment that I must not be able to read with the ironic defense that my sbnation avatar is of H.M. Almost everything I contributed to this “discussion” was aimed at injecting a little levity, and I thought I made it pretty clear throughout that I was only interested in provoking reactions from the TC’ers posting the most patronizing, self-important outcries of having been wronged by a blog post. I think most people understood my basic position at the end of this debacle. But it’s certainly interesting that you either couldn’t detect the humor, or willfully ignored it to keep up the attacking spirit.

Whatever stokes your Southern inferiority complex, I suppose.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever...

passes for a Midwestern sense of humor, I suppose.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 27, 2010 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

When you admit...

…your goal was provoking reactions, it is hard to argue that you weren’t being smarmy and condescending, no?

by cavebird on Jul 27, 2010 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Man,

you’re kind of distorting what I wrote up there, no? The only reason I’m quasi-feuding with sddbaker is because she read my post about hired goons literally and keeps making cracks about my avatar, here and elsewhere. (And yes, sddbaker, I do realize that I was the first to mention Melville. I thought it was an okay counter to your original shot at me that I couldn’t read. I’m sorry that you somehow saw it as smarmy and condescending).

by MkeRoyal on Jul 27, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are currently only 44 OFs with an OPS at or above .750. That includes platoon guys as well as guys who are having fluke years. So no, they’re not readily available.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Who are all these bench guys who got shopped around the league?

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wait a minute...

Maybe he thinks Garret Anderson’s professionalism makes him a great corner OF option.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.

I think it is possible the Phillies can catch the Braves. Anything can happen in baseball, and the Braves face the Phillies 6 times in the last 12 games…

Thus, I feel the Braves need every advantage they can get, even if it isn’t a huge jump over another option. The Braves hold on to the NL East, but this assumes (a) Heyward plays and (b) McLouth doesn’t play.

There are a bunch of angry Braves fans, but that is because we have had to watch an outfield of Diaz, Hinske, Cabrera, McLouth, Infante and Blanco play…We just saw McLouth blow a game for us yesterday. We are tired of the poor production out of the OF. Yes, some guys have had good games, and I think the depth is solid. But I don’t want to see an OF of Diaz, Cabrera and Hinske EVERYDAY. Goodness.

From that perspective, to remove our only solid, everyday player, even if he will have growing pains of being 20, hurts. It hurts the excitement around the team enjoying a nice rise in attendance. A team in Bobby Cox’s and Chipper’s last season (likely). A team with the All Star MVP.

Sending Heyward down, even if it made sense mentally. Doesn’t make sense emotionally. What kind of message does it send Cox or Jones or the fans? Does Chipper and Cox (who deserve one final chance at a WS) care about 5 years from now? No.

Thus, while I share the same vitriol that some Braves fans are spewing forth, I do understand them. Surely you do too? Right?

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course I understand it

and I also understand that it isn’t going to happen

but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t talk about it

perhaps, just perhaps, my perspective as an outsider is valuable. making decisions based on emotions isn’t always best.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, we SHOULDN’T be talking about this.

Making decisions based on 3-4 weeks of data isn’t always best either, but that hasn’t stopped you at all.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mean, you COULD go off of his minor league track record, and his season totals to date – with or without the injury, it doesn’t matter.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe judge the entire 8 weeks instead of cherry-picking like you have been?

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I meant to say that I DON'T share the same vitriol...

I actually appreciate the viewpoint. Although, I disagree with it.

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course...

Numbers are also good…and your use of them is…not so good

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Entertaining read...

I wonder how Heyward himself would feel about being sent down. He is performing quite well and even played through injury while trying to help the team (even if he didn’t). Then the Braves reward him by sending him to Buford, Georgia and AAA to keep him under their control for another year? Really?

He’ll love that. Yeah, that will definitely help our cause at keeping him down the line…If Heyward is going to be as amazing as projected in 5 years, then I actually think keeping him up HELPS the Braves. Heyward will likely appreciate the fact we gave him a shot and stuck with him…

While not as strong as some of the other arguments above, it is another consideration…

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Last Comment That Needs to Be Made By Anyone

Sending down the most complete position player on your team while you have a five game lead in your division is not a wise decision.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:15 PM EDT reply actions  

But he MIGHT suck in the future!

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

given a 108 PA sample size :)

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Personally, I think we should send Brian McCann to the minors. I base this on the simple fact that he may not hit like an All-Star for the rest of this season.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:17 PM EDT reply actions  

So, they should have sent him down in 2005 then.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Has about the same amount of research and thought put into it.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which statement is worse?

The Braves should send Jason Heyward down.

Brian McCann is an easy out.

Legit, I don’t know which one makes less sense…

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the whole “Phillies pitching is as good as the Braves” warrants some mention – especially since the Phillies are openly shopping for a SP while the Braves are openly not even using all of theirs.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

There comes a time in every writer's career

When they have to apologize for making a mistake and writing an article that was not up to their best ability.

This has happened to me in the past, and when called on it I understood that I made a mistake and apologized to those who read the article. I haven’t read your other stuff on this site or any others, but I would imagine you have many articles with more research and that have been better than this one. With that said, I understand you are defending your argument but I feel you must also see that your argument has little behind it.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Even I admit when I am wrong – and I am a pretty damn stubborn person.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really,

why would any sane person try to an elicit an apology from a baseball blog poster with whom they disagree.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

When people make false statements and have nothing to back their arguments, admitting that they are incorrect is usually the next step. If this were an argument to say, platoon Jason Heyward, or to do anything else on the planet that had some semblance of assistance to a team’s roster, then an apology wouldn’t be necessary.

I’ve been a blogger for years and I have seen some of the most respected writer’s in the industry come forward and apologize for making statements or arguments that were obviously flawed.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Inspiring.

I am going to propose that Francoeur-only blog now.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have some name suggestions:

1. Put it on the scoreboard
2. Rally Killer
3. How to ruin a career
4. KC, here I come!

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm going with KC, Here I Am!

There’s only a 5% chance that title is ultimately proven false.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

what was I false about?

I got the date of his injury wrong

You’re acting like I’ve just made a grievous indefensible mistake that I should just retract in pure supplication to your opinion. There’s a spectrum here, man.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do any other

writers on this site spend 50+ posts defending their article?

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do other writers have to?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love how you're an expert on my motivations

maybe I’m bored, maybe I’m dreading getting back to my real work, maybe I’m paid by the comment, maybe I actually LIKE interacting with readers and other baseball fans

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

For what it is worth...

..while I think your opinion is well, ridiculous, I do appreciate you mixing it up in the comments to defend it.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said his numbers declined as the season went on, which was wrong. In fact, every mention of numbers has been wrong (saying he hasn’t hit an XBH or walked since his return). That’s quite a few mistakes on things easily found on most stat websites.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mention he has hit no singles, which was incorrect.

You mention that outfielders with a .750 OPS are readily available, which is incorrect.

You say that the Braves are not benefiting from playing Jason Heyward every day in the outfield, which is incorrect.

This article wasn’t pages upon pages long, it’s a few paragraphs. Having that many incorrect statements in the article alone, nonetheless the comment section, seriously hurts your credibility as an author.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is what you were false about:

1. You stated that all of Heyward’s hits in his current multi-hit game streak were singles when two were doubles.

2. You stated that since returning from the DL, Heyward had no walks, when in fact he had 6 walks in 9 games.

Beyond that, you have made posts that convey in incorrect impression, such as suggesting that Heyward was great in April and has steadily regressed since then, when he was actually good by not great in April and far better in May.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

my ego and emotions are irrelevant

I like talking about the game. There are points in this discussion that I can see the other side to, as I’ve pointed out. However, there are also a number of comments saying I’m/the argument is an idiot, retarded, has no merit, is the worst thing ever written, etc. I just don’t agree with that, and am willing to hash it out.

We’re talking about baseball here, my feelings aren’t hurt and I’m not scrambling to defend myself rather than just bow down before the jury of 4 Braves fans who disagree.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have referenced the history of the game, so riddle me this:

Has there ever been an All-Star starter sent to the minors in the same season?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fine. I’ll concede that.

What I won’t concede is that there are plenty of .750+ OPS guys readily available for trade.

You have yet to name even 5 that I asked for. I’ll give you a head start

1. Jason Werth
2. Corey Hart.

Now, you only have to find 3 more.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Doesn’t make a difference whatsoever. What does make a difference is fan reaction, another thing you conveniently left out in the article, and his personal feelings if it were to happen. When discussing a topic, you must fully take in all factors that would affect future performance, and demoting Jason Heyward could easily affect his future performance with the Braves negatively. Even if it does not alter it in the next six years of team control, it would alter his performance with the Braves by likely not signing due to a ridiculous demotion received in his rookie season when he was likely the best hitter on the entire roster.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

we can play the sports pysch game all day though

I could also say, " a demotion would really piss him off, and an ANGRY Heyward would destroy the league and everything in his path"

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

The best way to ensure that we keep Heyward for as long as possible is to send him down to AAA, ruining any chance he has at the ROY, and any chance of him playing in the playoffs. That’ll keep him around for years to come.

Oh, I just thought of something. Even if they DO send him down, don’t you think that they will call him back up when the rosters expand to 40, thus making your whole argument invalid?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wonder..

what Will thinks of Gaby Sanchez, who has a .372 wOBA on a non-contending team with a small payroll. Shouldn’t he have been replaced with Doug Mientkiewicz buy now?

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Buster Posey clearly needs to be sent down too.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fact,

no rookies should ever be called up. If they are never called up, they will never accrue enough service time to become expensive. A team with no rookies therefore saves itself lots of money in the long run.

In fact, eventually, they may be able to eliminate their players altogether. Imagine the savings then!

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on Jul 26, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

This argument was debated

By every respectable Braves website and blog before the season started. There are both positives and negatives that stem from it.

Last season, Tommy Hanson was called up later and the Braves did not make the playoffs but were in contention the last week (A month of Tommy rather than Jo-Jo Reyes may have made the difference).

This season, the manager of the team was retiring and the Braves made the decision to go with the best player available, Jason Heyward.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

Will, I think this being Bobby’s last year is causing the Braves to do things that they normally wouldn’t (like Heyward and trading Escobar).

Yes, emotions don’t always have a place, for they can cloud solid judgment. But in this instance, for all that Bobby has done for the team and the city, he deserved the best possible team.

That team included Heyward in the spring and includes Heyward in the fall, 5 years from now be damned.

by Jman781 on Jul 26, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is it.

I’d be rooting for it if I were a Braves fan.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with this..

almost totally. The exception - I think they would have brought up Heyward even if it weren’t Bobby’s last year…and they would keep him up.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

do you really care about ROY?

Angel Berroa won it once for the Royals, I organized no parade.

The Braves could always demote him and then bring him back up. Or they could have handled his injury better, or they could have brought him up in June. Playoff rosters don’t have to be set until much later anyway.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

He may care, which is important to the matter. I doubt he does, but his feelings are the crux.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do we, not really.

Does he, I’m sure it would further increase his resume for arbitration and future contracts. There is no argument to be made that sending Jason Heyward down would positively affect his emotions, none.

Twitter: @Ben_Duronio

by BenDuronio on Jul 26, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do I care? Sort of.

Would Jason Heyward care? You betcha.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, you can play the sports pysch game all day...

…but the MLBPA is pretty easy to read. And demoting Heyward now would almost certainly bring a grievance, which, honestly, Heyward should win.

by cavebird on Jul 26, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not should...

Would win, because, honestly, the Braves, like Will, would have NO defense, other than trying to save money and extend control.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see

anyone other than an errant Royals’ fan agreeing with you here.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, I'm not errant...

I’m elegant and full of shit. I’m just getting a big kick out of the outrage, that’s all.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the outrage is directed at such a poorly researched article being placed on the main page of a very respectable site.

by YakuzaFro on Jul 26, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to mention the glaring errors and ridiculous statements.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, you haven’t really supported anything you claim. You claim that his struggles weren’t only due to his thumb injury, but offer nothing to support it in any way. You don’t think he can keep up the good numbers and continually harp on the month he struggled when he was clearly injured. When you offer some actual analysis, then maybe you’d be taken somewhat seriously.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really.

The first and only person on this tread to use the word retarded is, well, you.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really cannot believe that someone seriously would hold the position that you hold. Even granting that A) the Braves have a better option in RF (they obviously don’t), B) Heyward is likely to play at a low level the rest of the season (he obviously isn’t), and C) the Braves could get away with this from a PR or clubhouse standpoint (they obviously couldn’t), this argument is still incredibly specious.

Why? Because the Braves wouldn’t save any money by sending Heyward down. The union would file a grievance, they would win, and Heyward’s service time would be restored. The only thing sending him down would do would be to deprive the Braves of his services with no benefit whatsoever, long term or short term.

I feel like Ron Burgundy finding out that his dog ate a whole wheel of cheese. I’m not even mad; I’m just impressed that such an act of willful ignorance (of statistics, labor relations, public relations, etc.) is even possible. So, bravo on a job well done, Mr. McDonald.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on Jul 26, 2010 2:49 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

The whole wheel?

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup.

Impressive, isn’t it?

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on Jul 26, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

You know I don’t speak Spanish.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

possibly
The union would file a grievance, they would win, and Heyward’s service time would be restored.

Except that this almost never ends up happening. It gets threatened alot, but I can’t remember the last time such a griveance was filed, much less successfully.

by Freneau on Jul 26, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I can’t remember the last time a team promoted a hot young prospect, got in a pennant race, then demoted him to save money.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe if the Braves do it...

it’ll catch on?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

This never happens

because teams are never stupid enough to actually send down players when they would lose the grievance.

Situations like this are EXACTLY the reason that the union grievance process exists.

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on Jul 26, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Owned.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally

Ownage achieved. Discussion=success.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really like all of the stat-based logic that you have brought to the discussion.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was honestly so much stat-based logic being bandied about in the comments that my simple brain had to revert to being a smart-ass.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't even agree with sending Heyward down.

I don’t think I had stated my opinion on this issue prior to this point. Kudos to me.

by MkeRoyal on Jul 26, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I commit treason,

there’s no way I’ll be convicted because I can’t remember anyone even being tried, much less being convicted of treason!

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on Jul 26, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I rec'ing all your comments.....

You’re “en fuego”.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Except Hardy sucked last year, and the move was justifiable.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 27, 2010 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't remember the player...

But there was one just this past offseason.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd, sir.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’’m still waiting on the list of readily available OFers OPS-ing .750+

I only asked for 5, and I gave you 2. It shouldn’t be that hard to come up with 3 more names if they are as readily available as you say they are.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Hey, I heard Francoeur is available.

He may not have such a hot OPS, but that arm of his sure is strong. Plus, he’s a good interview!

"Yeah, and I have an enchanted jock strap." -- Karl Karlson

by Jacob Peterson on Jul 26, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

And don’t have to worry about service time issues.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bonus!

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear he is also a good clubhouse guy.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He knows when to tell everyone to shave.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can even tell Hanson goodbye in person when NY signs him.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 26, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

And which panties to wear.

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Matt Diaz’s career splits: .709 OPS vs. RHP, .921 OPS vs. LHP
Eric Hinske’s career splits: .806 vs. RHP, .672 vs. LHP

Would they both be .750 OPS hitters if they weren’t platooned? It’s debatable.

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

puke

You can’t split that platoon up without thinking about the defensive ramifications. Neither Hinske, nor Diaz are capable of playing right field on a regular basis. Which is yet another valid reason that demoting Heyward would be a far worse decision than keeping him up the rest of the year.

by JFP on Jul 26, 2010 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why do you think they are being platooned, just for the fun of it?

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by sddbaker on Jul 26, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

We’re in 1st place, so obviously the smartest thing to do is demote Heyward, easily our best OF both offensively and defensively, move Diaz to RF and go forward with an OF of Hinske, McLouth/Cabrera, and Diaz. Can you say CHAMPIONSHIP?

by Nick Saikley on Jul 26, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Royals fans can’t.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 27, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

+1

Advance apologies if the contents of this sports-based post offended you. I'm just aiming to educate the masses. My law professor says they're asses.

Panthers '010: Save the Richardson family coffers! We'll take the winning if we stumble into it.

by MichaelProcton on Aug 5, 2010 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously. My little sister knows more about this game than you do.

Maybe I should sign her up to be a writer here. It’s disgraceful that somebody as effing stupid as you are is allowed to write. Anywhere.

Hope you didn’t quit your day job to become a “blogger”.

by RBR on Jul 26, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if I give you credit for this one (and I don’t), that still is a total of 4. You are missing one. You can’t even name 5 people who fit your description of “readily available”.

Just give up.

This guy wants to suck all the cubs dick can he not have an unbias some what partition reguards
by RWH2 on Apr 5, 2010 10:20 AM CDT

by justincredubil02 on Jul 27, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

OK, let's break it down

@ OP…no
@MikeRoyal…indeed
@TCers…good work

by BrockSamson on Jul 26, 2010 3:10 PM EDT reply actions  

If the Braves demoted Jason Heyward

do you know what kind of shitstorm that would cause in Atlanta and throughout the organization.

I’m doubting you’ve watched a Braves game this year, so I’ll fill you in: The fans LOVE Heyward. In three months, he might get the loudest cheer of anyone. Maybe even more than Chipper at times.

EVERY time Heyward comes up in a big situation, Turner Field instantly becomes a playoff environment. “Let’s go Hey-Ward” is chanted by every fan at the stadium. He turns a usually-tame stadium into a madhouse.

And you’re telling me we should send him down to Gwinnett with 2 months left in the season before the playoffs?

Come on, man.

Sharks have a week dedicated to Jason Heyward.

by Scott Coleman on Jul 26, 2010 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm just a bit confused by this

The Braves have a legitimate shot to win the division, make the playoffs, and go far in the playoffs. Even so, I would say most people still think they need another outfield bat to really solidify their chances. Yet, you are arguing that they should demote their best outfield bat? I fail to see how this would help the Braves in any way. It would double the number of holes in their lineup. Why would they, or any team for that matter, get rid of probably their best hitter (at least top 3)? It would be completely detrimental to their chances this season. They could probably still make the playoffs if they did that, but there is no way they would end up with home field advantage, which is clearly their goal given their record at home. Therefore, even if they brought him up for the playoffs, the damage would already be done.

"Chase Utley can't polish Martin's shoes right now" Joe Simpson

by sleezer1788 on Jul 26, 2010 3:15 PM EDT reply actions  

This article doesn't even take into account

the world ending in 2012. Why would you speed up that process by sending Heyward back to the minors?

by BrockSamson on Jul 26, 2010 3:25 PM EDT reply actions  

ROFL

This article is a joke, right?

by Slee on Jul 26, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

If this artcile wasn't so stupid and wrong it would be a good piece of journalism

Unfortunately, statistics can be found by anyone (but the author apparently)

You argument is that Heyward had a crazy hot April and then cooled off. The only problem is that is totally wrong.

  • April – .240/.360/.520/ with an .880 OPS
  • May – .337/.453./.628 with a 1.081 OPS
  • June – .181/.287/.245 with an OPS of .532
  • July – .436/.533/.487 with an OPS of 1.009

Look, I’m not trying to be internet douchebag here, but you have to be completely fucking oblivious to any basic statistical analysis techniques or simply stupid to not see the pattern there.

Great month – Great month – Injured month – Great month (so far)

I just really, really, really hope you are not paid for what you do. There are millions of people without a job right now, so I certainly hope you are not getting money for writing uninformed garbage like this.

60% of the time, it works every time

by ATLandUNC on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

What an idiot.

This writer is the reason people make fun of websites like this & hate when others link articles from them. What an idiot!

by RBR on Jul 26, 2010 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Since Hanson's been struggling, should we demote him?

I mean, think about it. If we demoted Hanson now, we could avoid him hitting arbitration until 2013. Better yet. Keep him down there until Aug. 31 of every year & only call him up in September. We could have him, basically for free, until almost 2016.

Hanson’s been much worse than Heyward, w/out an injury to hide behind. By your “rules”, he should’ve been back in Rome over a month ago.

by RBR on Jul 26, 2010 6:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Your points just don't make sense.

You acknowledge that he was good in April, then you cite numbers from May 12th to try and show his digression. To try and insulate your position, you admit that he was hurt beginning May 22nd, but posit that he was already slumping before he was hurt. Then, you say that he’s been hitting only singles since he’s come back (which isn’t true) and discount the good hitting due to the short amount of time.

At what point did the ten days he was slumping before his injury become more important (or more indicative of his projection) than the ten or so days since he returned from injury? Is it not plausible that he was entering a bit of a slump that he otherwise would’ve come out of quickly had he not been injured (as has happened since he returned from injury)? It seems like you made your mind up with this post, found numbers to support your argument (albeit weak), and then refused to look at it from any other perspective than that upon which you had already decided.

Additionally, your point regarding keeping him in the minors to control his rights for another year is most likely moot. I would be shocked if the Braves didn’t give Heyward the Evan Longoria treatment and go ahead and sign him to a big deal early, before free agency/arbitration can even come into play. Would this have been a mistake with Franceour? Yes. Would it have been with McCann? No. Given the natural gifts Heyward possesses, as well as his patient approach at the plate, his five tools, and the multitude of other attributes, this would be the most responsible thing to do to avoid losing him via free agency. Keep the hometown kid at home and keep the hometown fans happy.

by hailtogeorgia on Jul 28, 2010 10:03 AM EDT reply actions  

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