Updated throughout the day with quick takes from staff.
A few days ago, FanHouse's David Whitley pondered the issue of gay/lesbian people and stadium "kiss cams." The result was six hundred words of meandering ignorance that essentially concludes with, "well... you know, it might be best if we hide the gays."
On Saturday, a LGBT advocacy group held "Out at the Ballpark," in which a few hundred gay and lesbian people attended the Cardinals game in St. Louis -- part of the idea being that they receive an appropriate slice of time on the kiss cam. Where is David Whitley? Oh, he's just writin' on a nationally-recognized sports site, thinkin' of the children:
I'd like to take the socially enlightened high road on this one, but I can't help sympathizing with that father who'll be sitting next to his son or daughter at Busch Stadium.
"Daddy, why are those two men kissing?"
"Umm, err, hey isn't that Albert Pujols coming to bat?"
I don't have a kid. If I did, I imagine the conversation would go something like this.
"Daddy, why are those two men kissing?"
"They probably love each other."
"Oh!"
Yes, yes, I'm super-tolerant. Someone bronze me a trophy. That's the thing: according to friends of mine who have small children, this is not a difficult conversation. Unfortunately, many parents reinforce homosexuality as something to be feared by refusing to even acknowledge it.
"You must remember this
That was easy for Sam to sing in Casablanca. Rick's Café didn't have a "Kiss Cam" and gays weren't demanding the respect they deserve.
A kiss is still a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh ..."
Now, they are.
This is one of many examples in this piece of Whitley saying, "don't get me wrong." I really don't think he's a hateful person, I just think he's trying to be consistent with himself and having a really tough time doing so. Anyway, Whitley presumably believes that LGBT advocacy was invented in like 1997 by a mad scientist or something. Whoops!
"Why shouldn't we be on camera, too?"
Because I'm not ready to discuss same-sex relationships with my 3-year-old.
I'm taking that slightly out of context because the next sentence is, "I don't think she's ready, either." But those two sentences are what this entire article is. There are several things about this world that I'd be terrified of discussing with my kid for the first time. Dudes kissing each other on the lips wouldn't be one of them.
I suppose at this point I should say that some of my best friends and relatives are gay.
All the usual disclaimers sound empty to some activists.
To them, the old Shield-the-Kids excuse simply masks an underlying bias.
Correct!
If "Kiss Cam" showed an interracial couple, would you quickly cover Little Johnny's eyes?
No.
The sooner my kids see examples of racial harmony, the better. But this issue has torn up entire religions. Call me homophobic, but I just don't think a 5- or 10-year-old brain is ready to tackle those complexities.
Besides, can't we just enjoy our peanuts and Cracker Jacks?
This romantic category is beautiful. But this romantic category is terribly confusing for me! Let's just all eat food.
If my daughter grows up and falls happily in love with another woman, I'll proudly walk her down the aisle. But parents should be able to discuss such issues when they choose, not when the local sports team flashes them on a scoreboard.
This is another of those examples I was talking about. Also, Whitley's article could have been radically different, or scrapped altogether, if he had bothered to ask himself some follow-up questions: why is this issue difficult? If a small child learns that some people love other people of the same sex, what are the consequences?
Anyway, I have this thing about spiders. They creep me out. When I have a kid, I'm going to make sure that my kid never learns that spiders exist until he or she is, say, twelve. I'm not sure exactly how I'm going to pull this off.
So I understand why gays get mad at "Kiss Cam" pranks. I get why they demand equal time and respect.
I just wish they'd accept that sometimes a kiss is not just a kiss.
Because it's controversial and people are unready/unwilling to accept it, correct? Suppose it's 1930 and we're talking about an interracial kiss. Explain to me how that is any different at all.
What we have here, really, is not a hate column. When Whitley says he's fine with gay people and has gay friends, I believe him, which is why the inconsistency of his "think of the children" argument is so bizarre.
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Comments
Maybe he should think of the gay children
who need to learn that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them kissing someone of the same sex.
The only reason that kids currently don’t understand homosexual relationships is because we are censoring them. The concept of two loving individuals is not too complex for them to grasp, and if you let them see it and explain it to them, I don’t see any problems occurring.
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by DarrenM on Sep 21, 2010 1:55 PM EDT reply actions
"Call me a homophobe, but..."
Well Dave, don’t mind if I do!
There is a word for the discussions we have with our children that we find difficult. It’s called parenting.
(zing!)
Using children’s supposed confusion and fear as a proxy for our own fears and prejudices is cowardly, at best. But Whitley’s homophobic nonsense is just downright shameful.
Amazing rebuttal, Jon.
by JMU JJ on Sep 21, 2010 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
The finger marks
from the bitch-slap you just gave Whitley will be visible for years to come. Nicely done.
by jlwoodhe on Sep 21, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree with everything you said, Jon. Nice article.
However, as far as same sex couples getting equal time on the Kiss Cam, how is the camera supposed to know which pair of same sex people are a couple and which are not? Isn’t this part of the reason why they are not shown on the kiss cam?
The Mikan Drill
by JoshuaR on Sep 21, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions
Or, on the flip side, how are they to know that that girl whose chair my arm is resting on the back of is not my girlfriend, but my sister?
I see what you’re saying, but that can go both ways.
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by Travis Hughes on Sep 21, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I mean that is definitely true and something I see alot of the time at games (and something I thought about while posting that comment). Most of the time its just waived off or something. The failure rate would be much higher in searching for same sex couples though, right?
The Mikan Drill
by JoshuaR on Sep 21, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that it'd be higher
I have to think the Kiss Cam operators are searching out people who are doing things like holding hands, arms around each other, etc. during the game. Otherwise, I’d be confused as to how they generally seem to find couples.
Silver Seven: the Daniel Alfredsson of Ottawa Senators blogs.
by DarrenM on Sep 21, 2010 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that is true. Although that is not always the case, since they sometimes miss on couples.
The Mikan Drill
by JoshuaR on Sep 21, 2010 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i live in constant fear of that exact scenario when i take one of my sisters to a baseball game
When I was a kid, I didn't want to be a doctor or a fireman. I wanted to be Super Mario. It's the most literal pipe dream I've ever had.
by U-God on Sep 21, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
you're allowed to mouth
“we’re related”
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by colintj on Sep 22, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Already Happened in Atlanta on "Kid's Day"
At a Thrashers afternoon game designated as a ‘kids cay’ at the rink, the kiss cam focused on a male-female pairing. The guy turns to the other side, camera pans with him and he kisses another guy. First same sex kiss cam that I am aware of.
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by The Falconer on Sep 21, 2010 2:26 PM EDT reply actions
The kiss-cam controversy with same sex couples also extends into the ‘joking’ shots of two opposition players of the same sex, with the kiss cam heart around them. As if it’s insulting to have it insinuated that you’re one partner in a same-sex couple.
Great post. It’s one thing to say you’re okay with gay couples, another thing to act that way.
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by Peter Raaymakers on Sep 21, 2010 2:27 PM EDT reply actions
okay, so we are all just the most open minded people...
Maybe we can do away with the kiss cam altogether. Do we really need the (i) couples who aren’t couples (ii) couples who are pissed off at each other (iii) fat drunk couples going through the motions of a kiss, anyway? Just a thought, but why do we even have to have them in the first place?
by markandcat on Sep 21, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
Whitley has always been like this.
I had to fight through this stuff for several years when he wrote for the Tampa Tribune. He doesn’t seem capable of writing something meaningful about any intelligent or serious topic.
This is Whitley’s idea of research, from his time at the Orlando Sentinel:
Dress up in this stupid getup, wander around your so-called rival’s campus, then wonder why no one takes this so-called rivalry as serious as him.
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by Jamie DeVriend on Sep 21, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions
Just another dumb publicity stunt
Given all the issues affecting gay and straight people, and they’re demanding equal time on a baseball inter-innings amusement? And if they get it, what then? All society’s ills will be cured?
Really. What next? The NAACP calling for an African-American sausage to be included at Milwaukee?
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by Jim McLennan on Sep 21, 2010 2:50 PM EDT reply actions
"Demanding"?
________________________________
I will give my shirt for Tennessee today.
by Holly Anderson on Sep 21, 2010 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
From the story originally linked
“Now, gay activists in St. Louis want some face time on the Kiss Cam at Saturday’s Cardinals game.”
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
by Jim McLennan on Sep 21, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think the idea is that this event would fix everything forever.
Weekend Editor, SB Nation
by Jon Bois on Sep 21, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Little known fact
As soon as Rosa Parks refused to get out of her seat on the bus, all racial prejudice was ended forever, on the spot.
by Eric Angevine on Sep 21, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait
… really? Is that true?
SB Nation Boston Managing Editor
by Ryan Hudson on Sep 21, 2010 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Because, of course
Rosa Parks was a pre-scheduled event organized by a group who had been campaigning on the same issue for thirty years…
[Rolls eyes]
"It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." -- Brian Stimpson
by Jim McLennan on Sep 22, 2010 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually… yes, it was.
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by David A. Arnott on Sep 22, 2010 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions
This is
one reason you should keep politics out of sports.
I realize that politics of life invade all areas, but within sports, I don’t want to hear about politics. I really don’t give a shit what Bill Clinton thinks of an ESPN commercial – well, I don’t give a shit what Bill Clinton thinks.
And I don’t care what you think of kiss cams and straight people, gays, or dogs.
And I don’t want to read about either of them on what I thought was a site that covers sports, mostly because I have to read about politics everywhere else, and I mean everywhere.
Am I less likely to read this site again because of this article? Yes, I am.
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by Jon Johnston on Sep 21, 2010 3:26 PM EDT reply actions
I agree that sports are an escape from this stuff for a lot of people (including myself). Last year, when Sarah Palin dropped a puck at a Flyers game, that was a ridiculous, unnecessary intersection of politics and sports.
But the reality is that sports are part of our culture and we can’t just remove the two from each other completely. Something like this is important to talk about, and ignoring it doesn’t help anything.
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by Travis Hughes on Sep 21, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Politics?
Social issues, perhaps.
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by Sky Kalkman on Sep 21, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Its still
politics. It may not be democrats vs republicans, but it’s still politics.
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by Jon Johnston on Sep 21, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Actually, it’s biological. Being gay is NOT POLITICAL…but nice try. We’ve turned it into a social issue thanks to religion and lack of general education. This shouldn’t even be an issue. Gays should be able to bang buttholes and clam-magnet each other all they want. They should be able to hold hands, do cartwheels, vote, eat caterpillar shit if they want to.
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by lolredwings on Sep 21, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice try
to you, guy that’s even more reactionary than me, that being a bad thing.
Where did I say that I cared whether or not people are gay, guy who doesn’t read things very closely?
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by Jon Johnston on Sep 21, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did you click the link in the first place if you didn't want to read about these things?
The title of the article made it pretty obvious that this was going to be a politically charged topic.
by Cardfanintherock on Sep 21, 2010 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
so
I could bitch about it.
Duh.
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by Jon Johnston on Sep 21, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
My line of thinking is this:
Whitley’s line of thinking is such that a rebuttal is appropriate. Now, I could have sent this along to a non-sports blog that focuses on LGBT issues, media bias, what have you, but it would merely serve to further confirm ideas that the readers would already hold.
It’s preferable to address something in the same corner of the Internet in which it was posted, because it will be read by more people who would be inclined to see Whitley’s article.
The drawback, of course, is that this really wasn’t an article about sports at all. You’d rather actually read about sports, so yes, I really do get what you’re saying. I think the other SB Nation folks and myself do a great job of not deviating from sports-related happenings too often (well, aside from Andrew Sharp’s delightful dissertations on Lil’ Wayne).
As for whether this is political… well, so was the women’s suffrage moment, and so was the civil rights movement. I’d argue that sports are not as important as these things, and that sometimes it’s appropriate to interrupt the fun and games for a few paragraphs that one can either read or not read.
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by Jon Bois on Sep 21, 2010 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wouldn’t mind if a dude or a girl kissed me – I just got on the Kiss Cam! This would help probably end my parents belief that I am asexual.
SPAAARTANS, what is your profession? Why, eating Wolverine of course!
by lolredwings on Sep 21, 2010 4:26 PM EDT reply actions
kiss cam is the ultimate form of celebrity
everyone in the stands wants to be you and/or with you.
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by DarrenM on Sep 21, 2010 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally
I’m not even ready to explain heterosexual relationships to my son. I don’t tell him what’s in the hot dogs, either. He’s eight, fer chrissakes.
by Eric Angevine on Sep 21, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions
So how does Whitley explain his homosexual family members and friends to his child?
I like baseball.
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by Satchel Price on Sep 22, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Probably
By pointing out Albert Pujols. Who I’m certain is far more confusing to a three-year-old than Aunt Lisa and Aunt Sue.
by sarrible on Sep 22, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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