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by Rob Neyer • Feb 3, 2011 6:53 PM EST
Remember Daniel Murphy? Used to be a third baseman? And an outfielder? And a first baseman? And missed most of 2010 with a bad knee injury? Well, he's back and he's learning yet another position ... second base.
Wait, aren't you supposed to try easier positions when you're older and dragging around a bum knee?
Usually, yeah. In The Wall Street Journal, Michael Salfino points out just just how rare this switch is ...
The father of the baseball sabermetric movement, Bill James, advised in his 1988 Baseball Abstract: "Rightward shifts along the defensive spectrum almost never work." Clearly baseball managers feel the same way, at least in the case of Mr. Murphy's switch. Moving a first baseman to the middle infield hasn't been attempted since Jackie Robinson did so in 1948, according to Stats Inc. Granted, that one worked out masterfully. But Robinson only played first base in his 1947 rookie season because Brooklyn's Eddie Stanky was entrenched at second. Plus, Robinson was a Negro League All-Star shortstop. Only one other player since 1900 has tried the move.
Jackie Robinson's case is irrelevant. The other player's might not be, except for its singularity. We might as well assume that no player has ever tried to the first-to-second switch ... and if no player has done it, we can only guess what's going to happen this time, right?
Of course, we can guess that it won't work out real well. When a player has looked good at just one position and it was first base, you certainly wouldn't guess that he will thrive in the middle of the infield.
Actually, we do have a decent and recent parallel: Skip Schumaker. In 2009, Schumaker shifted from the outfield to second base, and according to the numbers he wasn't terrible ... until 2010, when (again, according to the numbers) he was terrible. I doubt if Tony La Russa puts up with another season of that.
The people running the Mets aren't fools. They know all this stuff. So why are they bothering? Because Murphy can hit some, and the corner-infield slots are well occupied. And because last season the Mets' second basemen were easily the worst in the National League. About half of that worst-ness was Luis Castillo, and he returns this spring as the incumbent.
Castillo's probably not that terrible. But just in case he is, you want someone around who can hit a little and at least sort of play the position. Thus, the Great Daniel Murphy Experiment. Good luck with that.
34 comments
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Comments
Brad "Amadeus" Emaus
Still hoping both him and Murph will play enough to give the Mets a cheap, good enough solution in short run while accruing more major league information about their defensive abilities at the position, power, patience, so on.
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by Eno Sarris on Feb 3, 2011 7:00 PM EST reply actions
To be fair
1) Murphy spent some time at 2B in the minors in ‘08. It didn’t work well, but it’s not like this is his maiden voyage to the keystone.
2) There’s been a rash of outfielders moved to 2B of late. Not just Schumaker, but also Dustin Ackley and Jason Kipnis in the minors for Seattle and Cleveland, and Delwyn Young when he was older than Murphy. Throw in Neil Walker’s move to 2nd, and there seems to be a new willingness to try all sorts of people at second.
by aap212 on Feb 3, 2011 7:02 PM EST reply actions
Young started as a 2Bman in the minors (398 G)
Kipins was a 2B / OF in college
Ackley is the only one, but he’s young and apears very athletic. Plus he is small for a 1Bman (6’1", 180lbs)
I’m not sure these are examples showing a shift in willingness.
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Not quite right
I understand what Bill James is saying, but regarding his statement – “Rightward shifts along the defensive spectrum almost never work” – what about SS to 3B? That’s a “rightward shift,” and that seems to work more often than “almost never.” See Ripken, A-Rod, etc.
by Matt in SF on Feb 3, 2011 7:04 PM EST reply actions
You're talking about the field, not the spectrum.
James is talking about moving to the more difficult position, not actually moving to the right.
by aap212 on Feb 3, 2011 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
The spectrum is like this
DH-1B-LF-RF-3B-CF-2B-SS-C
by pezzonovante on Feb 4, 2011 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Kelly Johnson also made the move from left field to 2nd base
MASN Announcer: "Ususally they have what they call here 'the privilege,' and that's what bobby cox calls it when he let's the veteran guys swing away on 3-0. This is not such a hitter."
Jason Heyward: Single up the middle, ballgame.
by telemakhos on Feb 3, 2011 7:05 PM EST reply actions
johnson started as a SS (364 MiL games) so he really wasn’t a LFer that moved to 2B.
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
not sure
that counts. he was a shortstop first.
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by Eno Sarris on Feb 3, 2011 7:06 PM EST reply actions
I think the point (from the Mets point of view) is that Murphy isn’t a true 1st baseman either, he was really only asked to play the position due to an injury to Carlos Delgado (And he did so quite well, judging by his +8.7 UZR/150 according to fangraphs, despite limited experience). He went through the minors mainly as a 3rd baseman, although he did occasionally dabble at 2nd base in the minors as well.
Honestly, the Mets should probably trade him to a team needing a 3rd baseman, but it’s worth a try to see if he can handle second base first.
by adropofvenom on Feb 3, 2011 7:11 PM EST reply actions
What team?
What team can’t do better at third base? Sadly, I think he’s a bench bat in the end.
by aap212 on Feb 3, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
I think you’re underestimating the amount of bad third baseman out there…….if he hits just to his career .768 OPS (and that’s ignoring a reasonable potential to improve given he’s really only had 1 full year at the big league level) and plays an average defensive 3rd base, he’d be better then quite a few of the ones out there. Someone like Callaspo comes to mind with the Angels, but there’s more.
by adropofvenom on Feb 3, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
.910 FA at 3B in 200+ MiL games
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
And as the story goes, Derek Jeter once had 56 errors at SS in the minors in a year……and as much as we ridicule his defense now, he was certainty passable over there for a while. Point is, error numbers in the minors don’t really mean much. Especially when the bulk of them were in A+ ball.
I’ll take a good scouting report over error totals anyday of the week, and I don’t recall anybody who thought Murphy needed to be moved off the position because of his defense.
by adropofvenom on Feb 4, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
I believe you have this more or less right
If I remember correctly, the chain of events was something like:
-Daniel Murphy comes up as 3rd baseman, is moved to LF field in late ‘08 because he’s blocked by David Wright
-Begins ’09 season in LF, moves to 1B when Delgado goes down with injury
-Now is trying to come back at 2B
In other words, he was never moved off of 3B because he couldn’t play it, it was due to other extenuating circumstances. So this is really more like a move from 3B to 2B, which is much less unusual.
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by Lefti on Feb 3, 2011 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's about right.
He also played some 2B early in his career at Jacksonville University.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 3, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
he had a .910 FA in 200+ MiL games. He really wasn't that great a fielder there.
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
3B to 2B?
True, but how often has that switch worked? That’s another shift in the wrong direction on the defensive spectrum. Which isn’t to say it can’t work, and I sort of admire the Mets for at least giving it a shot. What do they have to lose?
by Rob Neyer on Feb 3, 2011 7:55 PM EST reply actions
That's exactly why I don't understand some people being so opposed to the idea.
What do they have to lose? If it doesn’t work they still have a 1B/3B with a career .768 OPS who could be a nice bench option or trade bait.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 3, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but it’s also not nearly as far in the wrong direction…..
And like you said, they have nothing to lose. Murphy’s trade value is probably already in the dumps given how he’s been handled and that he’s coming off of a lost injury ruined season.
And for what it’s worth, the scouting reports have been relatively encouraging. From the Boston Globe (via Rotoworld) "A scout who watched Daniel Murphy a lot at second base in the Dominican Winter League said he’s “heading in the right direction” at the position.
“He’s a good enough athlete where he can pull it off,’’ said the scout, “but it will take time just to learn all the nuances of the position. I can see their thinking. He can hit. A sound player. This would be a nice conversion for them at a position they need help at.”"
by adropofvenom on Feb 3, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
Akinori Iwamura
by Sam Page on Feb 3, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
It worked okay with Edgardo Alfonzo.
by goquakers on Feb 3, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure he was originally signed as a SS.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 4, 2011 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
of his 363 MiL games
all but 7 were at 2B / SS
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Murphy's not really a first baseman, either
And he’s not a traditional first baseman at that because he’s not a big power hitter. I don’t really think the Schumacher comparison works because Murphy is actually an infielder. It was in the outfield where it had trouble.
I know it’s fun for people to write about Murphy as being a longshot to be a good second baseman, but let’s watch him give it a shot first.
And Rob, who says he’s got a bum knee? He’s recovered from the surgery, and it’s not like he has arthritis.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
by Preach19 on Feb 3, 2011 9:22 PM EST reply actions
I should add about the first base aspect
It’s not like Ryan Howard moving to second base. Murphy isn’t a huge guy and really isn’t a first baseman.
Trying to believe is my full-time occupation.
by Preach19 on Feb 3, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
chase utley played first
don’t know if this counts but utley played a little first in the beginning of his career
by j78965454 on Feb 3, 2011 11:39 PM EST reply actions
Utley played 26 G at 1B and none in the minors
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
Tigers' misadventures
Carlos Guillen has gone from SS to 1B to 3B to LF to 2B. So, that’s two moves in the “wrong” direction on the spectrum. He’s been hurt too much to know if it worked (but we can probably safely guess it hasn’t) but the Tigers never really viewed him as a utility guy. They saw him as everyday at all those spots, at least publicly (and briefly).
by bdjeff42 on Feb 4, 2011 9:38 AM EST reply actions
it’s not two moves in the wrong direction. He started as a SS, hence all moves have been to the left of his original position.
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
CRAIG BIGGIO (AllStar Catcher to AllStar 2B)
Also played CF and LF.
by Raidas77 on Feb 4, 2011 11:45 AM EST reply actions
That's still a leftward shift
He went from the hardest position to play, C, to an easier, albeit still hard position to play, 2B.
Save Jenrry Mejia!
by Ogre39666 on Feb 4, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Weren't the Twins playing Cuddyer at 2b last year?
And he was playing 1b and OF prior to that.
Murphy’s ability to turn 2 will be the make or break for him. He’s got nice hands and is pretty smooth and has a good arm. That won’t be the problem. He’ll have to get over the fear of getting running into (and the occasional dirty slide like the one that took him out), and learn to get the hell out of the way. If he can figure that out, he’ll be more than adequate, because he will hit and provide an instant upgrade over what was a black hole of suck in ’09. Emaus will also be solid.
And to answer Rob’s question: YES, Castillo is that terrible.
by David G on Feb 4, 2011 12:09 PM EST reply actions
the bulk of his 62 games came in 2004 (48). Plus he broke in as a SS.
by Sylow59 on Feb 4, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
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