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I wasn't sure about linking to Murray Chass's latest hatchet job -- I know it's best to avoid feeding the trolls, and maybe especially this particular troll -- but on the other hand this sort of thing is entertaining, and if you don't like it you don't have to read it. Anyway, here's the passage I enjoyed the most, regarding something I wrote about a new book that trashes sabermetrics and sabermetricians ...
One blog, by Rob Neyer, criticizes the book based not on the book itself but on a news release about the book. When Neyer was at ESPN.com, he seemed to be building a respectable reputation, but he has moved to a new Web site, SBNation.com, and I guess that site's standards are lower than ESPN's because I doubt that his blog on the news release would have been posted on the ESPN Web site.
Well, of course that's just silly. There was never anything respectable about my reputation.
Seriously, I had a great deal of leeway at my old job, and there was exactly zero in that blog post that would have raised a single eyelash in Bristol. So Mr. Chass is just flailing here, I'm afraid.
Plus, I didn't actually criticize the book. Not much, anyway. I did point out that the Red Sox have won a couple of World Series with sabermetrics never far from management's hive-mind. And I did close with this: "Anyway, I think I ordered this book months ago. Should be a hoot."
Pretty innocuous, if you ask me.
Anyway, I did receive a gracious e-mail message from one of the book's co-authors, and I have been reading the book. I'm out of the book-review business, but at some point I will publish that co-author's message, along with just a few of my thoughts about the book. That only seems fair. And we're all about fairness, here at SB Nation.
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He's going to love that you called him a blogger. :)
Blog: Splashing Pumpkins | Twitter: @SPGiantsBlog
by Julian Levine on Mar 21, 2011 3:47 AM EDT reply actions
well, yeah
that’s kinda the point. I was disappointed that the Primer headline yesterday didn’t mention that. it should have been “Blogger Murray Chass goes after fellow blogger in vicious blog post on his blog.”
by On the Banks on Mar 21, 2011 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Murray Chass
“It’s not a blog because I used to write for the New York Times!”
Just shows how narrow-minded the guy is.
by roons11 on Mar 21, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions
I just take that as smug
but ymmv
by scatterbrian on Mar 21, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
some real gold in there
“An obvious shortcoming in UZR, the authors say, is its consistently low ratings Derek Jeter earned until 2009. Jeter has demonstrated many unrated intangibles, most notably his retrieval of an errant throw and his backhand flip to get Jeremy Giambi at home plate for a series-saving out in the 2001 playoffs.”
How dare UZR suggest Jeter is not an elite defensive player! Surely no scouts could possibly agree with that assumption! And how could it overlook ONE PLAY MADE! That flip should have been worth 60 UZR on its own!
by todmod on Mar 21, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions
60?
more like OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAND!!!
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Mar 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Does UZR take that kind of a thing into account?
I mean does Manny’s cut off of Damon’s throw count as a run against and Jeter’s flip play count as a run added. I’ve just always assumed that UZR was about the ability to field batted balls in your zone. So extraneous baseball plays while valuable aren’t part of the equation.
by Pflood83 on Mar 21, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe you're right.
UZR excludes anything ridiculously out of zone, like that – justifiably – famous Jeter play, for two reasons – 1) For any individual player, such plays are likely to be a very small part of their overall value (It was awesome, but in terms of what % of Jeters overall season impact it was? Not much.), 2) UZR is based on comparing players to what an average player would do in that situation, and there are simply no comparable plays. Near the edge of the zones, it assumes that the run values and difficulty of a play are largely continuous, so it can handle stuff near the zone pretty well…
But a fucking Shortstop on the other side of the first base line? No. :)
by Patrick42 on Mar 21, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Defensive stats are still kind of imperfect. I don’t know that I would use a middling defensive player like Jeter as the basis of my attack, but they are certainly open to criticism.
A lot of Chass’s attacks on Sabremetrics are fairly half baked.
Do you know what I love about facts, though? No matter whether or not you believe them, they’re still true.
by Cormican on Mar 22, 2011 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Murray Chass
master-baiter
To Infinity. And BEYOND!!!
by YunelTheLazyLatino on Mar 21, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
Chass-tized!
Rob, just tell him you would have read the book to confirm your impressions were accurate, but you were on vacation and away from your email at the time.
by The Common Man on Mar 21, 2011 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
rec'd
"The WAR folks like yunel apparently. i know this, bobby cox hated going to war with this guy." - Jon Heyman
Beyond the Box Score / Capitol Avenue Club / shwitter: @CapitolAvenue
by PWHjort on Mar 21, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously Rob
you need to stay off his lawn.
by Jorio on Mar 22, 2011 4:45 PM EDT reply actions
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