David Stern had the flu, the owners took his place, and the NBA lockout negotiations fell apart again on Thursday. Now, with the the lockout looking like it's going to last much longer, let's try to understand why this is happening.
Oct 21, 2011 - "It's time to make a deal. If we don't make it Tuesday, my gut is that we won't be playing on Christmas Day." That was David Stern seven days ago, handicapping our lockout future should a federal mediator George Cohen fail to broker a deal between the two sides.
Now, after Tuesday—and Wednesday, and Thursday—brought interminable meetings in a Manhattan hotel and gag orders from all involved, Cohen finally threw up his hands, with his office saying in a statement that "no useful purpose would be served by requesting the parties to continue the mediation process."
So... Okay! Good to know the mediation was a complete waste of time.
But of course it was. Each time we've had some shred of hope that there's progress being made, that hope's been doused in gasoline, set on fire, packed into a t-shirt cannon, and rocketed into outer space. All in front of an army of NBA reporters who are slowly going insane.
Each time these talks fall apart, everyone that loves basketball gets a little more hopeless. For God's sake, the head of the owners' negotiating committee reportedly told the players, "You haven't felt enough pain yet."
Uhhhhh. Is this Goodfellas?
We're supposed to believe the owners are ready to compromise?
That's been the number one myth all along—that the owners are willing to partner with the players to find a solution that works for everyone. If you're looking to understand the NBA lockout negotiations and why the two sides are farther apart than ever, we may as well start there. As for the other issues driving the NBA lockout, let's break it down.
Myth No. 2: The 50/50 Split Is Fair. It may ultimately be what the players take, but splitting basketball revenue 50/50 amounts to NBA players cutting their earnings by 12 percent to help cover the NBA's losses. On its own, that's a pretty significant demand after the league enjoyed the most successful season since Michael Jordan left, but let's not forget the owners are also demanding to overhaul A) contract length B) salary cap structure and C) guaranteed money.
In other words, if the players sacrifice a significant chunk of what they've been getting paid, the owners still want to overhaul the system that pays them. So no, this isn't about partners working things out with a fair deal; it's about employers telling employees to fall in line.
It only compounds the problem when Stern, Adam Silver and the NBA owners portray 50/50 as a "fair compromise" for everyone, with the pretty explicit implication being that players are greedy and unreasonable by rejecting it. This hardens everyone's resentment and resolve when it's time to negotiate, and if the NBA ends up missing the season, this little "50/50" charade will be a big reason why.
Myth No. 3: The Players Need To Recognize It's A Different Economic Climate. You mean like, the players need to realize that the old collective bargaining agreement won't work anymore? They need to sacrifice some of the 57 percent of basketball revenue they'd been getting? Because they've done that already. Players have already offered to sacrifice 4.5 percentage points, or roughly $180 million. No, what needs to happen is that the owners need to realize that the struggling economy isn't a public relations tool that allows billionaires to browbeat their employees into concessions. Speaking of which ...
Myth No. 4: This Is About Billionaires Vs. Millionaires, Plain And Simple. Wrong. This is about millionaires who've already offered to sacrifice $180 million vs. billionaires holding out for more.
Myth No. 5: NBA Owners Are Losing Money. Uh-uh. Owners may be losing money in an immediate sense—in other words, not all of them profit off their teams each year—but the idea that the NBA's immersed in some sort of profound fiscal crisis is beyond the pale.
Historically speaking, even as the league's added more teams (and theoretically watered down the value of existing teams) the value of NBA franchises has grown exponentially over the course of several decades. In other words, the owners may be losing money in the short term, but as the league grows in the coming years, there'll be ample opportunity for them to compensate for any losses when they sell the team. In that sense, owning an NBA team is a little bit like owning a very expensive stock. Owners pay a gargantuan premium to enter the market, but the silver lining is that over time, you're guaranteed to make a profit on that premium if you hold onto the stock long enough. The thing is, NBA owners want that stock to make them money while they wait to sell it for even more money.
In any case, not to make this into a macroeconomics column, but any owner "losses" have to be weighted against the profits they stand to make by maintaining their investment over time. Possibly related: The most expensive franchise sale in NBA history happened last year.
Myth No. 6: This Lockout Is About Restoring Competitive Balance. Of all the fallacies being perpetrated during the NBA lockout, this one's probably the most reprehensible. Sure, it's dishonest and greedy for owners to pretend they're experiencing meaningful financial hardship, but if the league office sincerely believes a revamped CBA would restore "competitive balance", then it means the NBA doesn't understand the NBA.
We dealt with this issue in depth over here, but the cliffs notes explanation is this: Basketball is a game that thrives on superstars. There are only so many superstars to go around. No hard cap, or no amount revenue sharing, is going to suddenly make two Kevin Durants or two Dwight Howards. The idea that wealthier teams will make the league more competitive is pure fantasy.
Wealthier teams just means wealthier owners. All while teams exist within the same caste system as always, entirely dependent on the handful of elite superstars that define it.
Myth No. 7: The NBA Would Be More Popular With Parity. More popular than it was this year, when the NBA Playoffs had the highest ratings they've seen in a decade? Okay, fine.
Let's say the owners are ambitious and think parity will make the game better. That doesn't change the fact that tying parity to NBA finance is ludicrous. If the NBA wants parity that rivals the NFL, then they should go ahead and turn the playoffs into a single-elimination tournament. Or maybe just let the whole league play and make it like March Madness. Or they can have LeBron James switch teams at halftime. Any of those ideas would level the playing field, but none of them have anything to do with what's driving the lockout.
Myth No. 8: Players Lack "Intellectual Capital". First of all, the whole reason the NBA's in this mess is because today's players are more self-aware than ever, and owners like Dan Gilbert are threatened by it and trying to take back control any way they can. Whether it's through the rise of the internet or general increase in player awareness, today's NBA players are better educated on the issues driving the lockout than any players association in any pro sports labor dispute, ever. But if you really want to talk intellectual capital ... What about the owners?
They've been under strict gag order, but just on Thursday, we heard of one owner who asked players to take the deal and "trust his gut", another who foolishly galvanized the players with a quote ("You haven't felt enough pain yet") that was destined to be leaked, while the whole lot of them keep comparing themselves to the NHL, divorced from the irony of comparing themselves to a league that was decimated by a year-long lockout and still hasn't recovered.
So who, exactly, are the idiots in the room?
Myth No. 9: All Sports Are Doing This! Just Look At The NHL. Right, speaking of the NHL ... As Yahoo! Sports reported in the wake of Thursday's meetings:
Silver said the owners are not willing to trade a better revenue split for system issues designed to improve the competitive balance among the league’s teams. Silver and Holt said the league wants a system more similar to that of the NHL.
A number of NBA owners have bought into the league during the past 10 years. They've seen the favorable system the NHL forged during a lockout, they see the league's current crisis as similar to the NHL's earlier this decade, and suddenly, the lockout looks like a means to an end.
But just for the record: in 2004, the year preceding the NHL lockout, the Stanley Cup Finals averaged a 2.6 rating on ABC. In 2011, the NBA Finals garnered a 15.0 10.2 rating for ABC. This is probably over-simplified, but just working on those numbers, the NBA is roughly four times more valuable to TV networks than the NHL was in 2004.
Yeah, the NHL was losing money and so is the NBA, but the reason the NHL was in so much trouble seven years ago was because the sport was losing value to advertisers and network television at the same time, so the situation was only going to get worse. Meanwhile, the NBA's doing the exact opposite.
So ... yeah. Just a little perspective when owners point to the NHL as an example of a sport that had to overhaul its system in light of economic realities. Comparing the economic realities of the NHL and NBA is like comparing the guy having his house foreclosed on to a guy that needs to renovate his basement.
Myth No. 10: David Stern Is Controlling The Lockout. Wrong. And I was wrong on this one, too. Last week I wrote, "The owners are using this lockout to increase profits and eliminate any risk, and they're willing to sacrifice a season to make it happen. It'd be one thing for Stern to go along for the ride, but he's driving this more than anyone." But Thursday was different.
After two days of meetings that showed promise, Stern stayed home with the flu on Thursday. And after the NBA's owners convened in Manhattan earlier in the day, something changed. In Stern's absence and in the wake of owners brainstorming on their own, two days of incremental progress gave way to a third day of outright animosity between the two sides charged with saving pro basketball. That one's on the owners.
I still say this lockout will taint Stern's legacy forever, but if anything, the greatest indictment against Stern may be his inability to wrest control of his league from the likes of Dan Gilbert, Robert Sarver, Peter Holt and other basketball bit players somehow steering the direction of the NBA.
Anyway, there you have it. If you want to understand what's driving the lockout and why it could last all year and why the owners are willing to jeopardize the future of the league to keep this going, it all comes down to a handful of issues that are misleading at best and in some cases downright lies. But David Stern and the NBA owners think you'll believe. And whether you believe or not, they think the players will cave.
And as someone that loves basketball more than just about anything on earth, it makes me sad. Not even because we're going to miss a lot of great basketball. It's because if there's common thread to all the issues above—other than greed, dishonesty, and ignorance—it's the owners' fundamental lack of understanding of the NBA.
That's what's killing the league right now.
They don't understand that superstar players are already playing at a massive discount, because a lot of them weren't around when Michael Jordan made $35 million-a-year. They don't understand that the NBA's had "super teams" on-and-off for 60 years.
They don't understand that mainstream America has always had a hard time embracing a sport that glorifies imposing black millionaires, and a prolonged labor dispute will only make the relationship more tenuous. They don't understand that empowered players is a good thing, and ultimately what makes the NBA arguably the most progressive sport on the planet. Likewise, they don't understand that today's NBA players are more self-aware than any professional athletes in the world, and they know when they're being treated like fools.
They don't understand that if they overpaid for players and wasted money for years, then part of the responsibility for losses lies with them. They don't understand that the NBA's core fans are more intelligent than those of any sport in America, and we see what's happening here.
The owners think they provide the infrastructure that makes this game possible. They built it, or bought it, and the players and fans came naturally. But what they really don't understand is ... If you ask almost any fan in the NBA how and why they fell in love with basketball, they'll answer with a story about one, great player that got them hooked. Not a team, not a stadium, not a logo. It's the players who breathe life into the infrastructure.
And as the lockout plods forward, if you really want to understand why this is happening, the biggest problem isn't greed or egos or ignorance or David Stern as a plantation owner. It's the NBA owners driving this lockout who don't understand the dynamics that make the NBA unique.
And without understanding, there can't possibly be respect.
And when there's no respect ... Well, prepare for a long ass fight.
47 comments
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Comments
Well written
You drove home a lot of the points I’ve been thinking and talking about to co workers, family members and friends. It seems like the more we talk about this lockout the more a lot of the issues you brought up appear or are mentioned in these talks. I am pleased to see that SB Nation, Yahoo and a few other sports columns are informing the public on more than one side of the negotiation process
One thing i can do...................is FINGER ROLL.
by gunnin' gervin on Oct 21, 2011 11:14 AM EDT reply actions
Problem is, the owners hold all the cards.
The players should have gone on strike before last year’s playoffs. Maybe next time they will.
by Tim S. on Oct 21, 2011 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
They could have done so
But they would have violated the CBA which expired on July 1st. It is better to let the owners call the lockout than it is for the Players to strike.
I'm a proud fan of the Minnesota Twins and Dallas Cowboys!
"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let’s make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." – Harmon Killebrew
Champagne SuperTolbert Saves the day!!!
by Jessy S on Oct 22, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It would have been easier to write
“Myth 1: Owners rule and players drool.
Fact is that players rule and owners are not capable of human emotion".
All of your arguments are based on opinion, not fact. And the few that could be argued on fact are avoided like Myth 4. It’s not about billionaires vs millionaires, it’s about millionaires who have blah blah blah? So it’s only about millionaires? I mean, that doesn’t even make sense.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 21, 2011 11:36 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Myth #1 is about compromising. You think the owners wouldn’t mind a 57-43 in their favor? How is 50/50 not a compromise?
Myth #2 is about fairness. This is opinion.
Myth #3 : It’s a myth that the players need to recognize a new economic climate? Then you say they already have by making a 4% concession. Therefore it is not a myth.
Myth #4 is just dumb. Of course it’s about billionaires vs millionaires. How can it be solely about millionaires like you state?
Myth #5 is about Owners losing money? They are. How is that a myth? You make a point about the most expensive franchise sale in league history? Guess what, I’m also paying more for milk than my parents did. Does that mean dairy farmers are more successful than they were 20 years ago?
Myth #6 is legit.
Myth #7 is purely opinion.
Myth #8: Not provable. And common sense says Stern has more intellectual capital when it comes to NBA negotiations than Derek Fisher. Just be real here.
Myth #9 : All sports are doing this… What is “this”? Locking out? Lowering the player’s guaranteed income? With a statement that vague, it’s hard to argue that it’s a myth, IMO.
Myth #10 : You’re arguing Stern isn’t in charge because he wasn’t there the last day? Then you bring up racism? Ugh…
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 21, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There's hair of some truth I suppose
But I myself have never been able to embrace a bunch of white guys sloppily scooting around the ice and whacking around a little black puck.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
One would likely find more white NBA fans than black NHL fans.
Where’s the REAL “racism” at play here?
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 23, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And then there's this
For me it’s never been true of any sport. I have my whole life rooted for the name on the front of the Jersey rather than the one on the back. They are MY Kings, MY Cardinals. Players come and go. Of course I’m excited and root for the players – but always in relation to what they do for the Team.
Did I watch MJ a lot and mildly root for the Bulls? Yes, out of admiration and an understanding that I was getting to watch, to witness the greatest ever, but they were never – ever My team.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Same thing with me.
I love and always have loved the Kings. Mildly rooted for Stockton and the Jazz.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 21, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
And I rooted some for those guys too, out of respect, admiration.
But they were never My team.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I liked the Jazz because
I like the underdog. Oh and I hated and still hate Malone.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 21, 2011 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
For a city like ours,
and a team like ours, its all about the team. The kings have always meant something to us because we feel like they are the most recognizable image of our city in the context of the entire country. Do we love Webber or Evans, of course. But we love them because they are kings.
BRING BACK SANTA CLARA FOOTBALL
by wake180 on Oct 23, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Amen.
I will never follow a player harder than I follow my Bobcats. You can hardly find me watching a regular-season game that doesn’t involve them, period.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 23, 2011 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I get that competitive balance can't be fully achieved
but that happens in every league since some teams are contenders and others aren’t. but in the NBA, you have the problem that the same teams are bad every year (some due to bad mgmt and others due to money and others because of LeBron), the early picks in the draft more often than not is made of project players who take too long to develop, and third, the free agency of the stars in small cities is all focused on the sexy teams like the Lakers and Knicks. The thing that really should make most teams angry is that ESPN and the glamour teams always hype up other stars from non glamour teams up to two or three years before their deals are up. Things like, “Will CP3 be dishing oops to Melo and Amare?” and “Will Dwight finally get paid to dunk AND act with Kobe?”
by thewiz06 on Oct 21, 2011 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Well this is just not true under any circumstances
“early picks in the draft more often than not is made of project players who take too long to develop”
Some drafts are better than others, but the idea that development takes too long for top picks is more because of the picks being made than the players available.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
by Marty Mart on Oct 21, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's a bit of both
1. Bad decisions are made
2. Some players leave before exhausting college eligibility when their stock is high, which I understand, but they are sometimes doing so when another year (or two, or three) could develop them to a level where they can help an NBA team right away.
I don’t care when players are drafted, but I care when they go pro. Right now, they mean the same thing. But we should have a way to allow amateur players to get drafted when they want, but allow them to stay as amateurs/in college if that is what they want to do. There will be some team interaction with the draftees anyway, and it can be a win win for both sides.
by thewiz06 on Oct 21, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
What I'd like to see in the long run is that rookies who are high draft picks
come out of the gates running and help contribute immediately. No Kwames or Dasaganas and they should have went to college. LeBron was right to go pro after HS and KD should have went pro after HS too if the rules allowed it
by thewiz06 on Oct 21, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
What was KD in high school?
85 pounds?
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 21, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
a bit more than that
but he still would’ve scored at least 15 ppg with the talent he had in his freshman year of college.
by thewiz06 on Oct 21, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
No Byant Gumbel on the list? :-)
Seriously. he played a small but measurable part of yesterday’s failure.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 12:19 PM EDT reply actions
There's a reference to him at the end
and if that buried negotiations, they were doomed anyway.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
by Marty Mart on Oct 21, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
“They don’t understand that the NBA’s core fans are more intelligent than those of any sport in America”
How in the hell did you come to that conclusion? Did you conduct some sort of poll? Administer a test?
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 21, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Some folks don't let facts get in the way of their arguments.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 23, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
“They don’t understand that the NBA’s core fans are more intelligent than those of any sport in America”
How in the hell did you come to that conclusion? Did you conduct some sort of poll? Administer a test?
"WE PROTECT AND LIVE FOR THE HONOR OF RIDING IN THE WAGON BLASTER" -abayarde
by BuffaloBlueBlood on Oct 21, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I love basketball, but I have trouble getting to worked up about all this
We are watching a contract negotiation play out and when the two sides have reached an agreement that both can live with then the games will be back on.
In the meantime, enjoy some football or hockey or NCAA or whatever.
by DW19 on Oct 21, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
At this point
I have to wonder how much of the public even cares which side is right.
Clemson/Carolina Panthers fan. No one is prepared for a Dabo Swinney post-game interview.
by Fonce on Oct 21, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Wow, you guys are really in the bag for the players
To your list:
1> It could be worse, the owners have ALL the power here, they have in fact backtracked from some of thier demands.
You say the initial demands are all on the owner’s side – and you’re correct – because the previous deal was completely lopsided to the players
2> Whatever you say, a 50-50 split just Sounds fair. Lost cause. Especially when all it amounts to is allowing the owners to break even across the board – and that is using the Players model of how much the money the league lost.
3> See item #2, same point.
4> See items #2 and #3, same point. By the players caluculation the 54% would kindly allow the owners collectively to break even.
By the owners calculation, calculated as any business would with depreciation of assets etc… it’s still leaves them $120 mil in the hole.
5> This is a terrible argument for several reasons. First, just because franchise values have steadily risen doesn’t mean they are guaranteed to. Second, what if an owner never wants to sell? What if they want to keep the franchise in the family for generations as has happened in many sports? They’re expected to lose money for 20, 30, 50 years? Silly.
Every time a player’s contract comes up for re-negotiation we hear some version of ’ I have to treat this as a business decision’, ‘I have to think of my family’ , ‘I left because so-and-so offered me a little more money . . .’
6> & 7> Both of those points by the league have at least some merit, as do your arguments against them. I haven’t heard that the league is claiming the new CBA as they have proposed it would be a panacea – just that it would ‘help create competive balance’ just that more parity ‘would help’. Let’s not mis-represent what they’ve said.
8> I don’t know what to say here. Who said this?
9> YES, beware the M-F-ing NHL strike! Beware the lost season, lost wages, and terrible deal the players finally got when they cam back. Beware the lost TV money, the loss of popularity, of tix sales. Both sides, Beware.
I guess the league and owners in your view aren’t allowed the same?
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Ooops, that last line was to finish off item #5
Seriously, the one sidedness of the articles here has forced me more into the owners corner than I ever felt I would be.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
It’s like reading MSNBC. Every statement is pointed.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 21, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
just an opinion
I would rethink your 5th point. It isn’t silly to expect an owner to lose money every year in if his unrealized gains are equal to or greater than his expenses. Furthermore, I don’t think it is unreasonable for a team to lose money for substantial periods of time. If the team stinks and it costs the owner more money to run the team than he is making in revenue or gains, then that is his fault.
People forget, these teams are investments. And in every investment is the risk of losing money!
David Stern, is trying to eliminate any risk on these investments and guarantee profits for the owners.
G-Mac bitches
BC 2011
by jdguggs10 on Oct 21, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
So, under the current system
A teams players are guaranteed $60 – $70 million a year but you don’t think it’s unreasonable that the owners should expect to lose money based on some hypothetical long term gain?
and 22 of 30 teams? You say it’s an investment, I say it’s a business. Just like every player says when it’s time for a new contract.
Yeah, I don’t get it.
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
huh?
I’m confused by you post. “but, you don’t think it’s unreasonable”
I’ll restate my point. If the owners run a bad business, and expenses are higher than revenues and gains, then they should lose money.
G-Mac bitches
BC 2011
by jdguggs10 on Oct 21, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You said it
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
okay...
That is what I said and what I think…
um
G-Mac bitches
BC 2011
by jdguggs10 on Oct 21, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So you would encourage an owner like Jordan to spend $40 million a year on players an allow his team no chance to compete because he knows you can’t lure free agents to Charlotte? Oh, got it.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 23, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Bottom line premise is clear:
The NBA owners don’t know their product as well as they think they do. And judging by the comments here and from personal interactions with folks, most people seem to give them more credit, just by simple fact that these guys are owners.
"These things happened. They were glorious and they changed the world... and then we fucked up the end game." - Charlie Wilson
"I think that all the silence is worse than all the violence." -Lupe Fiasco
by Marty Mart on Oct 21, 2011 1:44 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, well
They do kinda make the whole thing possible ;p
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
right....
u can take the players away and the nba would still be possible right? Replace sarver with some no name billionaire and the nba runs the same so long as lebron, nash, cp3, kobe, dwight,durant all exist. Take those guys away from the nba, and there goes billions of fans. How many chinese are gonna stop watching the nba knowing that yao has retired? Yea…players do that…
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Oct 21, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Players come and go
I’m not downgrading their importance, but real fans root for the name on the front of the Jersey in good times (good players) as well as bad (see the Kings record these last three years).
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow pulling that card
then ill say this, there arent as many “true fans” as their are casual fans, and casual fans dont give a damn about the name on the front of jerseys.
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Oct 21, 2011 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
nonsense
"Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake."
- Chessmaster Savielly Grigorievitch Tartakower
by lietothegirls on Oct 21, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the casual fan
that goes to games once or twice a year and never knows anybody’s name, but they go because it’s their team.
"We're not talking about me and Darko in the same sentence." - Chris Webber vs KAHN!
by caseycheesecake on Oct 22, 2011 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
And where will that no-name billionaire come from?
You think there’s somebody who will pay athletes to play a game with no TV deal, no arena to hold fans to watch, no way for them to actually MAKE any money off of it? Yeah, didn’t think so.
Personal attacks are the weapon of the ignorant.
Panthers '011: This is what we've been waiting for...we get to overpay the core of a 2-14 team!
by MichaelProcton on Oct 23, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
....right euro ball doesnt exist
there are only 30 billionaires in the entire US
the aba never existed, there was never a power struggle between the aba and nba
yea….history can never ever repeat itself….ever
I dont care what the D.N.A. Says, the Guy wearing number 12 Cannot be Kirk Hinrich, he is definetly Kurt. Kirk can actually play basketball!
by piccolomair on Oct 24, 2011 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Um.
Sorta. Taxpayers built almost 50% of the arenas. “Free market capitalism” my ass hat.
by occassia on Oct 21, 2011 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
2011 Colorado Avalanche - Not yet mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.
The 2011 Buffalo Bills - Not going 0-16 this year
Burgundy Wave - SBnation's home for the Colorado Rapids
Crystal Palace FC - Oh wait, we're winning games this year? That wasn't on the schedule until 2016!
by UZ on Oct 21, 2011 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
the owner’s want to reduce players’ revenue to 50% PLUS overhaul contract length; salary cap structure; The Bird Exception and guaranteed money, ie everything!! The owners want to be protected from their stupid business decisions like giving max contracts to rashard lewis, gilbert arenas, joe johnson…shall i continue? They want guaranteed profits, period. The owners are really no different than Goldman Sachs converting to a bank holding company in Sept 2008 to qualify for federal bail-out funds.
by jlo1961 on Oct 25, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
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