SB Nation - Darrell Arthur

You're Twenty Deep: Analyzing DeMarre Carroll

djturtleface — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 17:08:58 -0000

DeMarre Carroll was a player in college at Mizzou. He was a legitimate college franchise guy; they built a team around him and he carried them into the tourney.

Nobody expected that kind of play out of him in Memphis, or anywhere in the NBA for that matter. DeMarre is a perfect example of the college tweener. He plays and works his ass off to make the best use of relatively limited natural abilities, but hard work isn't enough to make you a star in the NBA.

Even a guy like Gerald Wallace, who is admittedly limited in the more skill-centric facets of the game, has to go harder than anyone else in the league to make his incredible natural abilities work like they should. DeMarre Carroll has nowhere near the physical abilities of Wallace, but the working-man spirit is the same.

Now if you're going to evaluate a hustle player, where do you look? Rebounds and steals are traditionally known as "hustle stats." I personally don't believe that for a second, Carlos Boozer grabs mad boards but he's not exactly know for his dedication to the game. And steals are a tough read on this Grizzlies team; because the overall defense is tremendously poor, there are less tipped passes out there to get down and dirty chasing.

Still lets take a brief look at turnovers. It's alright to be fearful of small sample size, I suppose, but with DeMarre on the court the Grizzlies draw just as many turnovers as they do without him on the court. This probably means that Carroll is forcing some extra turnovers while replacing Zach Randolph, while being a little less disruptive on defense than Rudy Gay.

This point brings us rather quickly into the fact that DeMarre is being played out of position when filling in for Rudy. DeMarre cannot play small forward, he is only suitable as a power forward. Using 82games.com again today, it becomes obvious pretty quickly that Carroll is pretty horrendous at the small forward spot, with a PER of only .6 while playing almost 40% of his minutes there.

And that revelation makes DeMarre Carroll's role with the team going forward a little bit ambiguous. Darrell Arthur is a better NBA player than Carroll, and should be the Grizzlies backup power forward. That means Carroll's minutes are going to dry up in a month or two, unless the Grizzlies want to suffer him trying to figure out how to play tons of extremely inefficient minutes while out of position.

Moving back to his time so far, DeMarre has been a more than adequate sub. Data shows that the Grizzlies only play about 2 points per 100 possessions worse with him in, which isn't bad for a rookie substitute and a second rounder in most drafts. But would I rather have DeJuan Blair? Yes.

That's not to say DeMarre isn't putting in his work. To move away from the statistics, it's clear that he's giving it all out there. He brings lots of energy, but doesn't have the skill yet to become an impact player. Other teams happily allow the Grizzlies to run catch-and-shoot plays for him, and his driving layup is ugly, though he's willing to jump into a brick wall if it means getting to the line.

Twenty games in, DeMarre Carroll has given the Memphis Grizzlies everything they could have expected. He hasn't impressed, but he hasn't underwhelmed either. Carroll gets in, plays hard enough to make up for most of the skill gap, and happily takes the bruises that come with being the working-man.

Mavericks Vs Grizzlies:Game 20 Preview

Phillip Baggett — Fri, 04 Dec 2009 20:57:14 -0000

Mavericks vs Grizzlies preview

Mavericks vs Grizzlies coverage

Straight Outta Vancouver

The Match-ups:

Point Guard

Jason Kidd: Someone needs to go investigate Kidd's home and make sure he is not holding Dr. Emmitt Brown and his time traveling Delorean captive, because he is playing more like the 1997 version of himself.

vs.

Mike Conley: His points are down and his turnovers are up, a deadly combination not only for his career but his team as well, but then again when you have to play with the likes of O.J. Mayo, and Zach Randolph (two of the largest ball hogs in the league) what do you expect. Mike would be a solid point guard on just about any other team in the league, except the Nets of course.

Edge: Mavericks

Shooting Guard

Rodrigue Beaubois: Another game, another start, another 9 minutes of court time. When will we see more of Roddy B and less of the man with the tiniest arms in the league?

vs.

O.J. Mayo: Tons of talent, but no brains. If he would ever learn how to be a team player he could be deadly, but until then he will be just what he is... the +/- on a crappy team

Edge: Mavericks

Forward

Shawn Marion: The Mavs defense begins and ends with Shawn Marion, he has been the catalyst for this team. When Marion is on the floor the Mavs are +13.5, when he is not on the floor that number goes to +2, not only that but their opponents FG% jumps 5%.

vs.

Rudy Gay: If I could take one player from the Griz and bring him to Dallas it would be Rudy without any second thoughts. Rudy is an explosive player and shoots the ball unbelievable well, coming into tonight he is averaging 21ppg and shooting 50% from the field. Can you imagine a Mavs line up of Kidd, Gay, Marion, Dirk, and Erick Gooden, WOW

Edge: Memphis

Power Forward

Dirk Nowitzki: The Mavs will go just as far as Dirk takes them. Tonight could be a huge night for Dirk with Zach Randolph drawing the defensive assignment.

vs.

Zach Randolph: As great as he is on the offensive end, he is equalling terrible on defense. He will have his hands full tonight trying to guard Dirk Nowitzki.

Edge: Mavericks

Center

~~Drew Gooden Erick Dampier~~ Who knows: In my last preview I said that Drew Gooden deserved the start, but after Damps performance in that game my opinion has changed. Either player is capable of starting, so whomever gives the Mavs the best opportunity should be the one to start on any given night. Tonight I believe Gooden will be that man... but who knows

vs.

Marc Gasol: Is a legitimate 15 and 10 guy, however Marc seems to have some of the same disease that has plagued Tony Romo over the years, you know that thing that causes him to fall apart in clutch time.

Edge: Mavericks

Injuries/Suspensions

Memphis Grizzlies

OUT - Darrell Arthur

Dallas Mavericks

OUT - Josh Howard

Prediction: The Mavs take control early and never look back.

Dallas Mavericks: 114

Memphis Grizzlies: 101

Darrell Arthur Too Buff: To Miss 4 Months

djturtleface — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 23:29:32 -0000

More photos » by Darren Hauck - AP

8 months ago: Memphis Grizzlies' Darrell Arthur, right, and Milwaukee Bucks' Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, left, fight for the loose ball in the second half of an NBA basketball game Saturday, April 4, 2009, in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Darren Hauck)

Browse more photos »

Sophomore Darrell Arthur will miss four months after having surgery on a partially torn pectoral muscle, as announced by the Memphis Grizzlies and a multitude of other sources. Arthur has been fighting injury since the summer league, but this particular injury stems from training camp. No source contends that the injury was suffered while getting his swell on at the bench, but I have my suspicions.

This is undoubtedly a loss for the Grizzlies. Yes, the frontcourt isn't exactly thin, but the Grizzlies also aren't exactly deep with experience. Arthur has some significant experience after starting for much of last season, albeit in short minutes, and should have been Zach Randolph's primary backup at power forward. Arthur is an excellent energy guy and can finish with his athleticism. Though he's still raw, he is full-sized and his game is a nice counter to Zach Randolph in terms of skills brought to the table. I was excited to see what Arthur could do with a mandate of "get in, jump around, break bones, block shots, foul freely."

Also this probably will push up the minutes for Marcus Williams, since Young will probably drop out of the guard rotation to back up small forward and DeMarre Carroll will play backup power forward in his stead. I'm not of the opinion that DeMarre is particularly effective at the power forward against traditional opponents, because he doesn't quite stretch the floor or dribble-drive well enough to exploit matchups a la Rashard Lewis.

On the plus side Arthur's injury will give the rookies about 20 minutes per game to show their stuff. I see Thabeet being the biggest beneficiary in terms of playing time -- this could be a twin towers opportunity. DeMarre Carroll has already more than earned rotation minutes, and I suspect the level of run Sam Young gets will continue to depend on how hot his hand is that night, since he's largely still inconsistent and using too many shots some nights.

Still don't make any mistake, Arthur was ready to make the jump to a major contributor off the bench, and I have no doubt that the rookies won't outproduce him with those minutes. Over the course of four months, I see the Grizzlies losing a couple wins to the injury.

Spoiler Alert: Me and My Memphis Grizzlies

djturtleface — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:38:16 -0000

More photos » by Steve Helber - AP

Memphians are flocking to see their new but injured superstar Allen Iverson, but as long as they temper their expectations they should see a whole lot more than A.I. from this young team. (AP Photo/Steve Helber)

Browse more photos »

The Memphis Grizzlies were supposed to be the final 'Spoiler Alert' -- saving best for last or something like that. But they've ended up right here, pretty much smack dab in the middle of the lineup. I'd like to note that I'm still very much committed to finishing the series, problem is that I won't be around to do it. Learn why and read the longest freaking Memphis Grizzlies preview on the internets over the jump.

On Thursday your favorite Grizzlies blogger will be on a long flight to the Balkans for an in-semester college study abroad. That's why I'll be doing the Grizzlies preview early, I don't want to just leave all my small but hardy fanbase out in the cold. And I should still be around on occasion, posting periodically, albeit likely in brief spurts. The reality of the matter, however, is that the bulk of content will be either automated or run by written by a new partner.

Said new partner isn't written in stone, but it should be someone that you all are now somewhat familiar with from past posts. He'll do a great job, and should be around even after my return, which will be November 5th -- just five games into the season and one day before a contest against the NBA Champion Lakers.

Glad to have that out of the way. Now let's get down to business -- here is your 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzlies preview in extended 'Spoiler Alert' format.

Preview

The funny thing about a stick of dynamite is that it pretty much always looks like it's ready to explode. Keep that bit of advice in mind as you continue to read.

The Memphis Grizzlies made two different types of additions this season. First, the rookies. The Grizzlies drafted Hasheem Thabeet, who I've openly lamented and insulted in the past and warmed up to in the now, second overall, then went on to take forwards DeMarre Carroll and Sam Young with their next two picks. I believe the draft was one of the best in the NBA despite a pretty weak class, and the Carroll-Young combo has the potential to be the Grizzlies defense-offense bench of the future.

The second set of acquisitions were a tad bit more controversial, and by a tad bit I mean they were damn near as controversial as it gets in the NBA. First the Grizzlies traded Darko Milicic for Quentin Richardson, who then went on a merry-go-round through the NBA, for Zach Randolph. And we all know Zach Randolph. Then the Grizzlies signed walking media magnet Allen Iverson, who's been dancing between wise veteran, distraction, and too hurt to know what the hell he actually is.

Playing with Zach Randolph is a tad bit like playing with a safety valve that's a tiny bit too wide -- as in it sucks everything in and spits it straight back out. You could feed Randolph with every possession and he would use every single one if you wanted him too, and he'd probably shoot about 45% from the field while doing it. Problem is you can't really win many basketball games that way.

And we have no idea what playing with Allen Iverson is like. It used to be pretty cool if you were Eric Snow and hated shooting. Chances are that it's not so cool if you're O.J. Mayo, Rudy Gay, or Zach Randolph, who all like to get involved in the offense, which means shoot the ball every chance they get. Last season it was a little more like playing with an angry wasp with no stinger. He still looked menacing, but was more of an annoyance then a legitimate threat.

As far as losses go, the Memphis Grizzlies gave away one of their best players in terms of PER in Hakim Warrick. This was a stupid loss. There were no minutes around for Warrick, but he is a talent with legitimate value. You have to hold onto him and make a trade. Otherwise there were no other losses of great importance -- Quinton Ross, Darius Miles, and Greg Buckner all made ignominious exits, thanks for nothing ya'll.

Fantasy Preview

Breakout- Nobody- With Zach Randolph stealing rebounds from Marc Gasol, and Hasheem Thabeet stealing some time, I don't see a second year breakout. With Iverson stealing isolation looks from O.J. and Rudy, I don't see either meaningfully increasing their statistics. And with both A.I. and O.J. clamoring to bring it up the floor because they too are "point guards," I don't see Mike Conley being much better than an end of the roster contributor.

Bust- Rudy Gay, Allen Iverson- Don't let anyone fool you, I don't see either of these players putting up significantly better stats than they did last season, but both will get drafted ahead of their position on the player rater at the end of the season. The Grizzlies just might boast five fantasy worthy guys, but none of them look to be better than a top 40 player, which isn't good news for owners.

Useful- O.J. Mayo, Zach Randolph, and Mike Conley- Again don't look for a breakout. If Randolph is healthy he could, theoretically, break the top 50, and he's usually great trade bait for less wise fantasy players who salivate over the 20-10 points and rebounds. That makes him draftable, but not a real target. Look for O.J. Mayo to basically duplicate his rookie season stats in a per 36 sense, with a potential boost in assists and field goal percentage. The problem is that fantasy stats aren't calculated by per 36, which means that a minutes drop will offset any gains and might actually reduce his value. Finally Mike Conley seemed poised to break out this season, but Iverson is almost undoubtedly going to depress his value.

Offensively

The Grizzlies are stacked with weapons on offense. The problem is that none of them are standouts. Allen Iverson used to be, Rudy Gay was supposed to be, Zach Randolph thinks he is, and O.J. Mayo isn't there yet. So while the Grizzlies have a whole bunch of scorer, they also have a whole bunch of players who are probably better suited to be second or third options, or a spark-plug off the bench.

Now this approach has worked in the past, for instance on the Pistons of yore. With Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups, Rasheed Wallace, and Tayshaun Prince (in order of offensive importance) the Pistons rode a bunch of solid offensive players to dominating the Eastern Conference during the pre-James to early-James era. The difference is that the Pistons were expertly coached and had a near legendary floor general in Billups.

Mike Conley might be a better passer than Billups, but he's certainly not better at commanding the game. For this approach to be successful somebody is going to have to assert themselves as the player who decides who shoots. Allen Iverson is too prone to calling his own number, O.J. Mayo isn't an NBA point yet, and again Mike Conley won't be in the position to take control.

So despite having a ton of weapons, a realistic take means that the Grizzlies will probably struggle with chemistry on offense all season. I still like them to outplay their offense last season, which was borderline atrocious, but the pundits are probably right in assuming that this team won't maximize their talents. "Skill overlap" is the buzz phrase for this season's Grizzlies, who will commonly have too many isolation players on the floor at any given time during the season.

And this problem might only be compounded by running the fast break offense. This strategy typically requires a steady hand at both point and shooting guard. The Grizzlies have that, but Rudy Gay is really their only finisher. Breaking teams definitely are better off with athleticism at both forward slots, and maybe even with a bit at center for good measure. Running constantly will get the fans out of their seats and get the Grizzlies a bunch more points this season, but I'm not convinced that their efficiency will benefit significantly.

Defensively

This is not an area where the Grizzlies will have to worry about skill overlap. The Grizzlies really have a limited amount of defensive talent, especially in their starting unit. Mike Conley is acceptable, O.J. Mayo is generally considered below average with potential, Rudy Gay is in the same situation, Zach Randolph is known to be especially useless on defense, and Marc Gasol is definitely below average for a starter. This unit is really quite bad defensively, though they should rebound well.

The second unit is better balanced. DeMarre Carroll has shown extreme willingness to play tough as nails, Sam Young is acceptable, Darrell Arthur brings energy but is limited technically, and Hasheem Thabeet somehow became an underrated defender despite being drafted solely as a defensive stopper. Both Iverson and Marcus Williams are question marks, but should be pretty decent. Unlike the first team, this unit has capable stoppers, but will struggle on the boards.

But the funny thing about this defense is that it could go both ways, particularly if the Grizzlies stick to their plan of running the floor. If you think back to the 'We Believe' Golden State Warriors, they similarly had a team of sub-par defenders who oftentimes looked lost and helpless. But counter-intuitively they were really a decent defensive team, mainly because they rebounded and gambled on steals that turned into very, very easy offense. If the Grizzlies follow this model they could be a surprisingly efficient defensive team.

Predictions

ESPN: 25-57, Hollinger 27-55: Are you surprised that ESPN isn't high on this team? They're not exactly the image of stability or reliability. You see experts don't like to take many huge chances -- perhaps rightly so, because they can't really be blamed for it with this Grizzlies team. Yes, yes, they're being particularly harsh, but they do have a point. It isn't often that a bunch of unproven misfits come together and make a big splash in there first season.

Still don't they have to make a bigger splash then this? Thinking back to the dynamite metaphor, by definition an explosion has to create some noise, right? I think so. This team barely lost anything in the offseason -- failing to trade Hakim Warrick was more of a no gain than an actual loss since he would have created a major logjam for Sam Young, Darrell Arthur, and DeMarre Carroll. I mean, really, how could this team have only added between one and three wins?

Sometimes I feel like the experts spend so much time watching the good teams that they lose perspective on just how bad your team needs to be to only win 27 games. Last year the Grizzlies barely had three NBA caliber starters. They had Mike Conley and Kyle Lowry in a platoon, both playing fairly effectively but providing no leadership. They had Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo; these two were starters, but aren't ready to be focal points of an offense, and certainly aren't ready to face consistent double teaming. Darrell Arthur was not a starting caliber player. Marc Gasol was solid on offense and decent rebounding, but useless defensively.

This season Conley, Mayo, Gay, and Gasol have all not only matured but also improved tangibly. Conley clearly shoots better. Mayo is moving the ball more often, though he's turning it over too often. Rudy Gay is stronger and better prepared to drive consistently, which is necessary for a team's best slasher. Marc Gasol dropped weight, presumably to play the pick and roll better.

And as bad as Zach Randolph can be at times, there's no way he's worse than Arthur was on either end of the floor last season, and there is no way he's as physically incapable of defending as Hakim Warrick. He isn't great and his stats are inflated well over his actual value, but he's much better than what the Grizzlies had. Last season the Grizzlies didn't have much in the way of guard play off the bench -- even Marko Jaric had to play. This season A.I. might fill too much need, but at least he's filling needs.

I don't think me or any other Grizzlies fan is asking for the world here; I'm asking for respectability. I don't want to see the other team's scrubs beating our starters at the end of games. I don't want to see decent play for half a game followed by a blowout third and fourth quarter; I want to see a team that is trying to win.

And I think that I'll be rewarded for my dedication. This season's Grizzlies don't even need to climb all the way into the playoffs, but they need to get their foot on the first rung of the ladder. This season's Grizzlies will be a stick of dynamite in both senses. Some nights they'll look god awful, other nights explosive, most nights they'll just look like themselves -- mostly dormant but constantly dangerous.

My Predictions: 34-48

Poll

How many games will the Grizzlies win this season?

Under 20 wins.

13 votes

Between 20 and 27 wins.

24 votes

Between 28 and 34 wins.

40 votes

Between 35 an and 42 wins.

43 votes

Between 42 and 48 wins.

12 votes

Over 48 wins.

9 votes

141 votes | Poll has closed

Grizzlies Lose to Mavericks: 107-114

djturtleface — Mon, 12 Oct 2009 02:34:45 -0000

More photos » by LM Otero - AP

Hollins was the object of attention tonight, mixing up his lineups to some success. (AP Photo/LM Otero)

Browse more photos »

Boy I'm glad I didn't watch this game. Things started off strange with Hollins splitting and combining the starters and subs into two brand new lineups. That meant that Mike Conley, OJ Mayo, DeMarre Carroll, Darrell Arthur, and Hasheem Thabeet started the game.

Why did Hollins do it? I suspect he wanted to see how Thabeet, Carroll, and Arthur would play against starting competition, since these guys have looked solid all summer. Results over jump.

***UPDATE***

The result was both beautiful and awful. The first team excelled, with each (besides OJ Mayo who closed the game with Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph) player having a plus minus of between +10 and +15. DeMarre Carroll really impressed, getting points in the flow, dropping dimes, rarely turning the ball over, and grabbing 4 steals. Thabeet was no slouch either -- he defended the rim aggressively and clearly made this unit stronger defensively.

But Rudy Gay and Zach Randolph led a second lineup that was absolutely abysmal. Rudy, Z-Bo, Sam Young, and Marc Gasol combined for 10 turnovers and a collectively abysmal plus minus, punctuated by Rudy Gay's whopping -24 with 4 TO's, 8 points on 11 shots, and piss poor defense on Kris Humphries.

In other news Mike Conley continued to have a solid preseason, despite a bunch of turnovers, and OJ Mayo notched a double-double with assists despite shooting 0-5 from three point range. Darrell Arthur returned from injury to blow up for 17 points and 6 boards in 26 minutes, though he did battled foul trouble.

I don't know how to feel about this Grizzlies bunch. As a young team they are due to be inconsistent, but I didn't expect this much frustration, particularly from young guns Rudy Gay and OJ Mayo.

OKC Thunder @ Memphis Grizzlies OPEN THREAD

Mr Pappagiorgio — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 23:30:17 -0000

TV: None | Radio: WWLS (98.1 FM, 640am in OKC, 97.1 FM in Tulsa)

Opponent Perspective: Straight Outta Vancouver

2009-10 Oklahoma City Thunder Pre-Season Roster
NUM	PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	DOB	FROM	YRS
40	Ryan Bowen	F	6-9	218	11/20/1975	Iowa	9
4	Nick Collison	F-C	6-10	255	10/26/1980	Kansas	5
35	Kevin Durant	F-G	6-9	230	09/29/1988	Texas	2
22	Jeff Green	F	6-9	235	08/28/1986	Georgetown	2
13	James Harden	G	6-5	220	08/26/1989	Arizona State	R
	Mike Harris	F	6-6	240	06/15/1983	Rice	1
9	Serge Ibaka	F	6-10	235	09/18/1989	Congo	R
6	Tre Kelley	G	6-0	188	01/23/1985	South Carolina	R
12	Nenad Krstic	C	7-0	240	07/25/1983	Serbia & Montenegro	5
14	Shaun Livingston	G	6-7	185	09/11/1985	Peoria Central HS (IL)	4
23	Byron Mullens	C	7-0	275	02/14/1989	Ohio State	R
7	Kevin Ollie	G	6-2	195	12/27/1972	Connecticut	12
51	Michael Ruffin	F-C	6-8	248	01/21/1977	Tulsa	9
2	Thabo Sefolosha	F-G	6-7	215	05/02/1984	Switzerland	3
36	Etan Thomas	C	6-10	260	04/01/1978	Syracuse	7
5	Kyle Weaver	G	6-6	201	02/18/1986	Washington State	1
0	Russell Westbrook	G	6-3	187	11/12/1988	UCLA	1
3	D.J. White	F	6-9	251	08/31/1986	Indiana	1

2009-10 Memphis Grizzlies Pre-Season Roster
NUM	PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	DOB	FROM	YRS
00	Darrell Arthur	F	6-9	235	03/25/1988	Kansas	1
1	DeMarre Carroll	F	6-8	212	07/27/1986	Missouri	R
11	Mike Conley	G	6-1	185	10/11/1987	Ohio State	2
31	Thomas Gardner	G	6-5	225	02/08/1985	Missouri	2
33	Marc Gasol	C	7-1	280	01/29/1985	Spain	1
22	Rudy Gay	F	6-8	222	08/17/1986	Connecticut	3
2	Trey Gilder	F	6-9	185	01/24/1985	Northwestern State-Louisiana	R
15	Hamed Haddadi	C	7-2	265	05/19/1985	I.R. of Iran	1
45	Steven Hunter	C	7-0	240	10/31/1981	DePaul	7
3	Allen Iverson	G	6-0	165	06/07/1975	Georgetown	13
55	Marko Jaric	G	6-7	224	10/12/1978	Serbia	7
32	O.J. Mayo	G	6-4	210	11/05/1987	USC	1
50	Zach Randolph	F	6-9	260	07/16/1981	Michigan State	8
21	Leon Rodgers	F	6-6	217	06/19/1980	Northern Illinois	R
24	Mike Taylor	G	6-2	165	01/21/1986	Iowa State	1
34	Hasheem Thabeet	C	7-3	267	02/16/1987	Connecticut	R
5	Marcus Williams	G	6-3	205	12/03/1985	Connecticut	3
4	Sam Young	F-G	6-6	220	06/01/1985	Pittsburgh	R

Thunder Gameday: Oklahoma City Thunder at Memphis Grizzlies

Mr Pappagiorgio — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:00:42 -0000

Finally, finally, finally! The Oklahoma City Thunder get their 2009-10 season underway tonight, in Memphis, against the Grizzlies! Who cares if its only the pre-season? Thunder Basketball is back, so get ready to Thunder Up! Sadly enough, at the time of this writing (Last night), we don't have any update as to whether or not this game will be televised anywhere that Oklahomans will be able to see, but at the very least we should all be able to listen on the WWLS, The Sports Animal, which should be carrying the game (although I haven't confirmed that yet either). I'm sure you are quite tired of hearing me complain about the game not being televised, but let's face it, if you are reading this blog on a regular basis, chances are you are a pretty big Thunderhead yourself and just as pissed off. So hey, I'm being your voice, and you just never know who is reading. I griped and moaned all season about games that weren't broadcast in HD and a quick look at the TV schedule for the upcoming season will show that perhaps someone was listening as every single game is listed as being in HD this season.

It is still just a pre-season game, so why should you even care? Well, I'm gonna take a few minutes and hopefully give you enough reasons to be interested. First and foremost is your Thunder Roster is very different than it was just a few short months ago as the team closed out its inaugural season. When you make the jump, you'll see the entire pre-season roster which will be cut down substantially before the season begins. Gone are the likes of Robert Swift, Malik Rose, and Earl Watson, and inserted in their place are a host of new players that you should be just as anxious to see such as Etan Thomas and Kevin Ollie. As young as this team was last season, it may have gotten even younger this year as James Harden joins the mix along with some other terrific young players including Serge Ibaka, and Byron Mullens, amongst others. So go ahead and make the jump to see the full roster, along with our continued preview which will have a few more reasons to be interested in tonight's game, because there are a few more, I assure you.

If you can remember back a few short months, there was some extremely heated debate regarding who the Thunder should take, Hasheem Thabeet, or James Harden. Regardless of who we wanted or who we would have picked (although it does seem pretty clear that Harden had emerged as our guy shortly before the draft), the Grizzlies went ahead and made things a bit easier for us by picking Hasheem Thabeet with the #2 overall pick. So tonight will be our first chance at seeing these two guys match up head to head, even though they'll rarely be close to one another on the court since Harden plays guard and Thabeet is six million feet tall.

Another reason you are going to want to tune in is to check out Allen Iverson in his new home. We all know him, we all um, okay, so we all don't love him, but you still have to respect the guy on the court, no matter his flaws. For now he doesn't even seem to be a clear cut starter on the team, but it'll be interesting to see if that's a motivating factor for him in the pre-season. It'll also be fun to see how he works and interacts with guys like O.J. Mayo and Rudy Gay. Oh wait, that's what you could have looked forward to if he didn't get himself injured on Sunday, so I guess we'll have to look forward to seeing that later on in the year. The Grizzlies are quite possibly the most exciting young team in the league outside of our own beloved Thunder, so this game will definitely be intriguing as two of the leagues better, up and coming, young teams, square off head to head. I tend to think we're a bit further ahead in our cycle than they are and should come away with a win, even if it is just a pre-season game, but the fun part will be watching, err, listening tonight.

Also, we will have a Live Game OPEN THREAD for commenting tonight as I'm sure one way or another a lot of us will be either listening to or watching the game. Hell, if we are listening, there is no reason to not be on the site commenting, so you better get your ass into the thread by tipoff so we can get some nice live game commenting going. Also, we'll update this post and the live game thread with anymore information on TV and Radio Coverage as the information becomes available.

2009-10 Oklahoma City Thunder Pre-Season Roster
NUM	PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	DOB	FROM	YRS
40	Ryan Bowen	F	6-9	218	11/20/1975	Iowa	9
4	Nick Collison	F-C	6-10	255	10/26/1980	Kansas	5
35	Kevin Durant	F-G	6-9	230	09/29/1988	Texas	2
22	Jeff Green	F	6-9	235	08/28/1986	Georgetown	2
13	James Harden	G	6-5	220	08/26/1989	Arizona State	R
	Mike Harris	F	6-6	240	06/15/1983	Rice	1
9	Serge Ibaka	F	6-10	235	09/18/1989	Congo	R
6	Tre Kelley	G	6-0	188	01/23/1985	South Carolina	R
12	Nenad Krstic	C	7-0	240	07/25/1983	Serbia & Montenegro	5
14	Shaun Livingston	G	6-7	185	09/11/1985	Peoria Central HS (IL)	4
23	Byron Mullens	C	7-0	275	02/14/1989	Ohio State	R
7	Kevin Ollie	G	6-2	195	12/27/1972	Connecticut	12
51	Michael Ruffin	F-C	6-8	248	01/21/1977	Tulsa	9
2	Thabo Sefolosha	F-G	6-7	215	05/02/1984	Switzerland	3
36	Etan Thomas	C	6-10	260	04/01/1978	Syracuse	7
5	Kyle Weaver	G	6-6	201	02/18/1986	Washington State	1
0	Russell Westbrook	G	6-3	187	11/12/1988	UCLA	1
3	D.J. White	F	6-9	251	08/31/1986	Indiana	1

2009-10 Memphis Grizzlies Pre-Season Roster
NUM	PLAYER	POS	HT	WT	DOB	FROM	YRS
00	Darrell Arthur	F	6-9	235	03/25/1988	Kansas	1
1	DeMarre Carroll	F	6-8	212	07/27/1986	Missouri	R
11	Mike Conley	G	6-1	185	10/11/1987	Ohio State	2
31	Thomas Gardner	G	6-5	225	02/08/1985	Missouri	2
33	Marc Gasol	C	7-1	280	01/29/1985	Spain	1
22	Rudy Gay	F	6-8	222	08/17/1986	Connecticut	3
2	Trey Gilder	F	6-9	185	01/24/1985	Northwestern State-Louisiana	R
15	Hamed Haddadi	C	7-2	265	05/19/1985	I.R. of Iran	1
45	Steven Hunter	C	7-0	240	10/31/1981	DePaul	7
3	Allen Iverson	G	6-0	165	06/07/1975	Georgetown	13
55	Marko Jaric	G	6-7	224	10/12/1978	Serbia	7
32	O.J. Mayo	G	6-4	210	11/05/1987	USC	1
50	Zach Randolph	F	6-9	260	07/16/1981	Michigan State	8
21	Leon Rodgers	F	6-6	217	06/19/1980	Northern Illinois	R
24	Mike Taylor	G	6-2	165	01/21/1986	Iowa State	1
34	Hasheem Thabeet	C	7-3	267	02/16/1987	Connecticut	R
5	Marcus Williams	G	6-3	205	12/03/1985	Connecticut	3
4	Sam Young	F-G	6-6	220	06/01/1985	Pittsburgh	R

New Beginnings: Day 1

djturtleface — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 23:30:43 -0000

More photos » by Lance Murphey - AP

No longer will Brandon Bass be burdened by the dynamic twosome of Marko Jaric and Darko Milicic. (AP Photo/Lance Murphey)

Browse more photos »

Ronald Tillery has given me this to pass onto you, fresh from the first day of training camp at Birmingham-Southern College.

The only other news of note, something I forgot to report yesterday, is that Marko Jaric will either be bought out or traded. Jaric's agent has been given the right to attempt to facilitate a deal, one that won't happen under Jaric's onerous contract, and Marko won't have to show up at training camp.

With that out of the way, let's get to everything else on the schedule:

"We‘ve got a team that can be in the playoffs if we play as a team," Heisley said, "Now is the time for us to start showing some of the promise that we've promised the fans. We've got a couple of established stars. The young guys have a year or two of experience. It's time. We have to deliver on the promise."

Good to know Heisley believes in this squad, but that's not particularly surprising since most people believe he, not the basketball minds, executed both the Allen Iverson signing and Zach Randolph trade. Oh, and by the way, no more conjecture in saying that, as Heisley finally openly admitted that point. He even went so far as to say that he is partly accountable for the success or lack thereof that the Grizzlies have this season.

And from the basketball end of camp:

The Grizzlies' first scrimmage had Iverson working with the second unit. Randolph, Mike Conley, O.J. Mayo, Rudy Gay and Marc Gasol made up the first team. Hollins cautioned not to read much into early lineup combinations. He told the team that practices would tip off with players who started last season in starting roles. Randolph played with the first unit because second-year forward Darrell Arthur suffered a chest injury midway in practice and couldn't continue. Said Hollins: "We'll do it that way until guys prove otherwise. Every team I've been on has required the new guys to fit in."

Tillery didn't give away much today and, sadly, he's the only voice inside training camps that I trust at this point. But look for more in-depth coverage as the preseason gets closer.

Around the Association: 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzlies- Going Back to Vancouver

Atma Brother ONE — Sun, 13 Sep 2009 13:00:29 -0000

From LA-LA land to Graceland. GSoM's got you covered!

Thunder's teddy bear when he was growing up as a pudgy kid in the East Bay.

Put a little mayo on it and... JUMP for a look at the 2k9-2k10 Memphis Teddy Bears!

Before we start counting the ways of the super lotto balls for the 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzlies, let's go back... way back.

You probably remember this:

Vancouver Grizzlies Primary Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies primary logo in use from 1996-200

A bear with a basketball under script

Or maybe even this:

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-200
A bear claw holding a basketball

But do you remember THIS?

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199
A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle

FUN-ky piece!

Shout out to Chris Screamer's sportslogos.net for the Vancouver Grizzlies logo throwbacks.

AB1's Fav 5 Vancouver Grizzlies of All-Time

5. Bryant Reeves

The Grizzlies inaugural draft selection with the 6th pick in the 1995 draft was a big fella (7-feet 275 pound big) by the name of Big Country who had a pretty short NBA career ended early due to injury (i.e. the Oliver Miller problem). He's considered a bust with 6 year career totals of 12.5 ppg and 6.9 rpg and that insane 6 year $61.8 million contract [see Wikipedia for more].

Vansterdam Best: 2 seasons of 16 ppg and 8 rpg while sprinkling in a swat a game

I will take a second here and note the career averages of the #1 overall pick in that same draft were actually lower than Big Country's at 11.6 ppg and 6.7 rpg.

Who am I talking about? He'll be entering his 15th season in the NBA this year and he's no ordinary Joe! Well, I guess he was. Please put your hands together for...

Joe Smith: Sky was NOT the limit. Nice guy though.

via sports.tom.com

Who's a bigger bust in your book?

4. Mike Bibby

Before he was battling Shaq and the Lakers Bibby was a member of Canada's other NBA squad.

via cdn.bleacherreport.com

Vansterdam Career:

1998-1999 [age 20]: 13.2 ppg, 6.5 apg, 2.7 rpg, 1.6 stl
1999-2000 [age 21]: 14.5 ppg, 8.1 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.6 stl
2000-2001 [age 22]: 15.9 ppg, 8.4 apg, 3.7 rpg, 1.3

Oddly enough the closest Bibby ever got to those assist totals post-Vancouver was 6.8 apg with the Sacramento Kings in 2004-2005. During most of his post-Vancouver days his assist average was ~5 apg.

So why would you trade an up and coming PG with those kind of totals at that young age? If I remember correctly the Vancouver Grizz were in full blow-out mode and there was some serious beef between Bibby and fellow Pac-10 alum Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

3. Michael Dickerson

Before his sad early retirement at the age of 28 in Memphis [CBC Sports], Dickerson was a solid swingman teaming up with Arizona backcourt buddy Mike Bibby in the Vancouver backcourt. Because of injuries he only played a total of 10 games in his last two seasons with the Grizzlies when they moved to Memphis. It was abundantly clear that the hoops gods wanted Dickerson to be a VANCOUVER Grizzlie, not a MEMPHIS Grizzlie.

via www.grizzliesonline.com

Just ask the legendary Knick and Warrior John Starks.

Dickerson was quite the enforcer in Vancouver.

Vansterdam Best: 18.2 ppg in 1999-2000

2. Shareef Abdur-Rahim

Todd Bozeman's greatest Cal hoops recruit SAR was a supremely talented balla who took home Pac-10 player of the year honors as a freshman. Abdur-Rahim has had a very nice NBA career, but I was honestly expecting much more from him back in 1996. I was thinking potential Hall of Famer <sigh>, but things didn't exactly go down like that. His odd 1.5 season stint in Portland really seemed to be end of SAR's path to stardom. Back then any time spent in Jail(Blazers) would do that to you.

via www.slamonline.com

Vansterdam Career:

1996-1997 (All-NBA Rookie 1st Team) [age 20]: 18.7 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 2.2 ast, 1.0 blk, 1.0 stl
1997-1998 [age 21]: 22.3 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 2.6 apg, 0.9 blk, 1.1 stl
1998-1999 [age 22]: 23.0 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 3.4 apg, 1.1 blk, 1.4 stl
1999-2000 [age 23]: 20.3 ppg, 10.1 rpg, 3.3 apg, 1.1 blk, 1.1 stl
2000-2001 [age 24]: 20.5 ppg, 9.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 1.0 blk, 1.1 stl

Quite a nice body of work from the young hoops prodigy who made a fun pit stop at The People's Republic of Berkeley. Compare SAR's early production to current and recent past young Warrior forwards and supposed "building blocks" of the mythically bright future... oh, I'll spare you the details.

1. Steve Francis

Stevie didn't exactly give Vancouver the thumbs up to select him with the 2nd overall pick in the 1999 NBA Draft.

Here's an often ignored fact for you. Stevie Franchise (questionable nickname) was turnover prone and made a ton of poor decisions with the rock during his stints in Houston (much to Coach Jeff Van Gundy's irritation which led him being shipped out), Orlando, and New York, but he didn't have a single of these during his (very brief) stop in Vancouver. The Grizzlies got the last laugh too [FanHouse].

I guess it all worked out in Graceland.

via media.commercialappeal.com

Vansterdam Best: ZERO turnovers

Which brings us fortunately (or unfortunately depending on how you want to slice it with your Graceland bear claws) to the MEMPHIS Grizzlies...

Quick- which player would you rather have after seeing their rookie stats per 36?

Rookie A (per 36): 15.8 ppg (53.8 TS%), 12.9 rpg, 1.5 apg : 2.1 tov, 0.9 blk, 0.6 stl
Rookie B (per 36): 17.5 ppg (53.9 TS%), 3.6 rpg, 3.0 apg :

(Thanks as always to Basketball Reference for the stats.)

Before the season began the Grizzlies banked on Rookie B O.J. Mayo and the Timberwolves went with Rookie A Kevin Love. Who's the winner of this trade so far? Well, that's a tough one. Who will be the winner of this trade 5-10 years from now? That's another tough one.

(Like how I just completely avoided my own questions?)

Regardless of how much you Love your Mayo, I'd go joyriding in a white Bronco with this O.J. any day. This guy just looks like he has the makings to become a very savvy and solid starting backcourt fixture for years to come at this level. I don't expect any buyer remorse from the Grizz about this trade.

Rewinding 2k8-2k9 Season

24 wins - 58 losses

Good thing the Grizzlies stole Gasol from the Lake-show! It's already paying dividends.

One thing's for sure. The Grizzlies OWN the Warriors.

Projecting 2k9-2k10 Season

41 wins - 41 losses

You can do worse than a lineup of:

PG: Allen Iverson/ Mike Conley/ Marcus Williams

SG: O.J. Mayo/ Marko Jaric

SF: Rudy Gay/ DeMarre Carroll

PF: Zach Randolph/ Darrell Arthur/ Steven Hunter

C: Marc Gasol/ Hasheem Thabeet/ Hamed Haddadi

Not much worse defensively mind you, but offensively that ain't half bad.

29 other teams are going to feel dumb this season for not answering the call.

[photo: Grizzlies.com]

Allen Iverson: Maybe not THE Answer, but Definitely AN Answer

The biggest offseason news for the Grizzlies and during the annual super slow NBA September was Allen Iverson signing with the Memphis Grizzlies for a bargain basement 1 year rental fee of $3.5 million.

See SBNation.com story stream: Not Ready for the Rocking Chair: Memphis Introduces Iverson

The hoops world can be very funny sometimes. Somewhere along the way Chauncey Billups went from being a very solid and underappreciated point guard to the most overrated player in the entire NBA and Allen Iverson went from being a true warrior and one of the league's greatest players to spectaculary underrated. (See the discussion in Polling GSoM: Based on their stats Guard A or Guard B?)

Make no mistake. Age 34 Allen Iverson is not an age 34 Michael Jordan (last Chicago Bulls season + NBA Champion). Iverson is not going to lead a team to a title as the #1 guy. AI has some flaws in his game at this age, notably his defensive decline and intensity. He simply is not the ballhawk he used to be early in his career, routinely netting over 2.4 steals a game and being a regular menace of D. I think everyone knows that by know. But that doesn't mean he still isn't a very good NBA player. For the way NBA teams were avoiding him this offseason you would think he had the hoops skills of Mark Madsen.

Iverson is undoubtedly coming off the worst season of his NBA career (both in terms of hoops performance and team politics), but let's not forget that he is only one season removed from averaging 26 ppg (45.8% FG, 34.5% 3pt, 80.9% FT), 7.2 apg : 3.0 turnovers, 3.0 rpg, and 2.0 steals. If Warriors "building block" Monta Ellis dropped anything close to 26 ppg and 7 apg (with a 2:1 assist: turnover ratio compared to his lowly 1.37 ratio last season) we'd all be pleasantly stunned. Too bad it's not going to happen for Ellis and the Warriors.

Bold Prediction: A rejuvenated Allen Iverson fighting for his hoops legacy is going to put up better numbers than Ellis this season.

The Grizzlies bought low and I like what they did. In a league where the Boston Celtics added Stephon Marburry for a playoff run, it makes very little sense why none of the contending teams this year wouldn't even so much as take a chance on AI at such a low financial cost.

The Answer Vault:

Allen Iverson Age 20 vs. Stephen Curry Age 20

2009 NBA Free Agency: Warriors Expected to Use Midlevel Exception- Ramon Sessions, Jarrett Jack, Jason Kidd, and Allen Iverson

The Allen Iverson Trade: Throwing Up W's and L's

Rumor: Warriors Not Interested in Allen Iverson Anymore

Rumor: Warriors Could Be in on Multiteam Allen Iverson Trade

Why the Warriors Should Trade for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Baron Davis + Andris Biedrins for Allen Iverson Package Reports Were Bogus

Rumor: Warriors Could Have Allen Iverson for Jason Richardson

Rumor: Tony Mejia Thinks AI to the Warriors by Friday

Rumor: Warriors Offered Baron Davis, but Ready to Drop Out of Allen Iverson Trade Talks

Rumor: Tom Tolbert Says Warriors Out of Allen Iverson Trade Talks

Rumor: Sixers Targetting Troy Murphy and Jason Richardson

Rumor: Troy Murphy Not in Trade Talks

Rumor: Allen Iverson to the Warriors, Ben Gordon to 76ers, and Troy Murphy to Bulls

Rumor: Baron Davis, Andris Biedrins, and 3rd Unidentified Player for Allen Iverson and Steven Hunter

Rumor: Andris Biedrins, Monta Ellis, and Baron Davis for Allen Iverson and Steven Hunter

Rumor: Warriors Upped Offer for Iverson to Baron Davis, Monta Ellis, Ike Diogu, and a 1st Rounder

Rumor: Ric Bucher Says Warriors Out of Running for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Warriors Dangling JRich and Adonal Foyle for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Stephen A. Smith Thinks the Warriors are the Frontrunners for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Warriors Looking to Move Dead-Weight Contracts for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Allen Iverson to the Warriors for JRich, Monta Ellis, or Baron Davis

Rumor: Warriors the Front-Runner in AI Sweepstakes

Rumor: Celtics, Warriors, and Kings Most Likely to Acquire Allen Iverson

Rumor: Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, or Jason Richardson + Monta Ellis for Allen Iverson

GSoM Talks to Preetom Bhattacharya about Allen Iverson Rumors

Rumor: Warriors, Celtics, and Pacers in the Mix for Allen Iverson

Rumor: 76ers Contacted Warriors, Sonics, and Nuggets about an Allen Iverson Deal

Rumor: Allen Iverson Wants Out of Philly + Warriors Need The Answer

Rumor: 7-1 Odds on Allen Iverson for T-Double, Ike, MP2, and Zarko

Rumor: Sixers want Troy Murphy or Jason Richardson for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Iverson Will Play for Warriors

Rumor: 8 Team, 9 Player Super Trade brings Allen Iverson to the Warriors

Rumor: Warriors Won't Pursue Iverson

Rumor: Warriors' Youth + Bad Contract for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Sixers Listening to Troy Murphy Package for Allen Iverson

Rumor: 76ers Want a Troy Murphy Package for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Warriors in the Mix for Allen Iverson

Rumor: Warriors Really After Iverson

Rumor: Allen Iverson to the Warriors

AN Answer for the Grizzlies

Pre-Iverson it would be all but a foregone conclusion that the 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzles (barring some unforeseen leap to superstardom by sophomore Mayo) would be sitting out the big spring dance in the West again. They would simply be fighting for the meaningless 10th spot in the West with the likes of the Timberwolves, Warriors, and Thunder. Sure the Grizzlies would be young and potentially exciting in the eyes of hoops junkies, but again it would be meaningless.

Iverson makes the 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzlies season non-meaningless (I think the word I'm looking for is meaningful, but that feels a little too strong for the Grizz so please excuse me). On paper the Grizzlies now look like they have what it takes to fight with the New Orleans Hornets, Phoenix Suns, Utah Jazz, and LA Clippers for the lower playoff seeds in the West. For a franchise that has won 22, 22, and 24 games the past 3 seasons that's a big upgrade. Are the Grizzlies Iverson's last stop in the NBA or will they just be a bridge to a glorious finish with a championship contender in 2010 and beyond? All eyes will be Iverson and the Grizzlies.

All eyes on the Grizzlies? I don't think that has ever happened. You have to give the Grizzlies front office a ton of credit for ending their streak of meaningless-ness.

Golden Predictions

You heard it (predicted) here first. The Grizzlies will trade Rudy Gay this season. He's uber-talented and has all the physical tools, but I'm not sold he will ever make that commitment to making that big step or turn on the defensive intensity to ever reach his potential. It's kind of sad really.
Allen Iverson puts up 20 points and drops 6 dimes per game. All through February, March, and April contending teams are kicking themselves for not picking him up at a bargain basement price. Talking heads around the league start calling him a big impact free agent in the 2010 free agent class.
O.J. Mayo raises his dime total to 5 apg.
Michael Conley becomes... Mike Bibby Lite.
Rookie Hasheem Thabeet barely plays, but ends up having a solid NBA career when it's all said and done.
Warriors outcast Marcus Williams barely plays, but at least he doesn't steal R Dizzle's laptop.
Zach Randolph puts up another empty 20-10, but blocks less shots than Charlotte point guard Raymond Felton. (Seriously look up last year's totals- what an oddity.)
Marko Jaric stays a very happily married man.
Hamed Haddadi is a Warrior Killer on Wednesday November 4, 2009, Tuesday December 22, 2009, and Saturday March 20, 2010, but not on Wednesday March 24, 2010. Fourth time's the charm for the Warriors defense!
Marc Gasol raises his stats from 11.9 ppg and 7.4 rpg to 14 ppg and 8 rpg. The "Kwame Brown trade"? I laugh. It was clearly a Gasol for Gasol trade with the Grizzlies just wanting to get younger. Clearly.
Sophomore power forward Darrell Arthur makes a lot of teams wish they didn't pass on him in the 2008 NBA Draft.

For more on the Memphis Grizzlies (and hopefully a little bit about the Vancouver Grizzlies) let me direct you to our brother site Straight Outta Vancouver...

I wonder what they'd do with their blog name if Vancouver somehow got another NBA team some day.

2009-2010 Around the Association

Introduction
Atlanta Hawks: Sorry, Mrs. Jackson. The Hawks are for real.
Boston Celtics: Sheed in Green + Another Answer
Charlotte Bobcats: They Do Exist
Chicago Bulls: Ring Around the Rose-y
Cleveland Cavaliers: Now or Never
Dallas Mavericks: The Curse of the Dampier
Denver Nuggets: If it ain't broke...
Detroit Pistons: The Return of the Bay Boys
Houston Rockets: Yao-ch!, that's gotta hurt
Indiana Pacers: A One Man Show
Los Angeles Clippers: Warriors South No More
Los Angeles Lakers: Big Brother, Little Brother
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Jersey Nets
New Orleans Hornets
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Super Sonics
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia Sixers
Phoenix Suns
Portland TrailBlazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards
Rewind

Poll

What feels the most golden?

Vancouver Grizzlies

103 votes

Memphis Grizzlies

45 votes

San Jose Grizzlies

182 votes

Seattle Grizzlies

64 votes

Grizzlies? GRIZZLIES?! WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GRIZZLIES MAN?!

141 votes

535 votes | Poll has closed

Behind Blue Eyes: An Optimistic Look at the Future

djturtleface — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 22:08:13 -0000

I am a steadfast steward of the people and last week a resounding majority of you voted for the next series to be a feature detailing some future scenarios for the Grizzlies.

I think this piece is going to be a trilogy of sorts entitled 'Behind Blue Eyes.' Someday it will be made into a film series, but for now you will have to appreciate the original telling in printed form. I'm going to avoid going into deep stat-search for these features because, to be honest, it's really not worth it. The scenarios are based things that could and perhaps should happen, but likely won't ever happen, so in depth examination isn't really necessary. The first story, today's story, is going to be an optimist's take on the Memphis Grizzlies future (as indicated by the title).

So without any further ado, let us get to the real fun!

What do the Memphis Grizzlies have this year? Essentially Memphis has a gaggle of young players who seem ready to be productive in some capacity, but are obviously far from their prime. This is completely reasonable given Memphis's situation. Every small-market team needs to rebuild at some point. Hell even some large market teams like the Knickerbockers get trapped in extended rebuilding processes. You don't rebuild by scrapping together a team of veterans who have .500 potential, even if that might be better for the fans.

What is it reasonable to expect from this bunch that is clearly short of its potential? Well they will almost certainly struggle this season. Young players, even considerable talents, typically aren't particularly efficient. Fact of life. Even Kobe Bryant was there once. They tend to get in foul trouble, take bad shots, and play poor team defense. None of these three things are a key piece of the winning puzzle.

So how can I be such an optimist? Well, young teams tend to get better every year. This isn't exactly an earth shaking revelation, since even young role players generally get significantly better year after year. Nobody questions that Rudy Gay and O.J. Mayo could both score 20 points a night on the wing, they don't simply because they lack the understanding of how to best work together with each other and their teammates. Most NBA players tend to learn their limits and begin to understand their game between their 3rd and 5th year in the league. Occasionally it takes the right system to make the best of their skills (Trevor Ariza/Devin Harris), and even more rarely some don't ever learn to maximize their best skills but still improve (Ron Artest/Josh Smith), but by and large young players tend to grow into their own efficiency.

And it's important to remember that the Grizzlies still have significant room to improve via the salary cap and draft as well. During Ragnarok (2010) the Grizzlies are fairly limited in cap space, picking up Zach Randolph and Marko Jaric's contract insured that, especially since they seem likely to extend Rudy Gay.

The Rudy Gay contract extension is likely to be somewhere between $10-14 million a year. I find it incredibly unlikely that he will receive a maximum contract with current state of the NBA. Some people are inclined to compare Rudy to Rashard Lewis, who was famously given a somewhat questionable maximum contract by the Magic, but the comparison is tenuous at best. Rashard signed back when Marco Jaric could ink a $7 million dollar a year deal. Marvin Williams ($8 million), Andrea Bargnani ($10 million), and Danny Granger ($12 million) have all set the market for Rudy.

The best news about a Rudy Gay extension might not even be that it locks up a player who is both promising (like Bargnani) or productive (Marvin Williams), but a bit of both (Danny Granger circa the start of last season). The actual best news would be an indication that Heisley is committed to competing once this young core gets older, and that he isn't just SuperSonic'ing the Grizzlies.

Interestingly enough a Rudy Gay contract extension would also actually give the Grizzlies a bit more financial flexibility than they have currently. By going over the salary cap the Grizzlies would get access to both their Mid-level Exception and Bi-Annual Exception, which is two players for about $7.5 million. Since these exceptions cannot be compounded with real cap space, which the Grizzlies have about $4 million of (less than the MLE), it is actually very difficult for Memphis to make any impact signings. With exceptions, however, the Grizzlies will enter a fair playing field in free agency.

For example, even if the Grizzlies wanted to sign, say, Nate Robinson, to a contract it would be very difficult in the current situation. They could offer something like $4.3 to the Knicks guard, but the Knicks would almost certainly match using their own MLE, which is worth about $1.5 million more. So being over the salary cap actually works to your benefit if other teams are only just beneath the cap, as the Grizzlies are now.

This means that after 2010 the Grizzlies could potentially be looking at a starting lineup commanded by Mike Conley in his 4th season, and NBA point guards tend to take about that long to develop. O.J. Mayo will be in his 3rd year, which was a hell of a season for Brandon Roy and Dwayne Wade. Rudy Gay will be quickly approaching his prime. Zach Randolph would sound a lot better if he was Pau Gasol, but no point in dwelling in the past. And Marc Gasol will be in his 3rd season, so keep in mind that even internationals who are relatively old as rookies (Luis Scola, Manu Ginobili) also tend to improve significantly for their first few years.

Off the bench the Grizzlies will have Hasheem Thabeet, Sam Young, and DeMarre Carroll in their second season, and Darrell Arthur beginning his third season. Is that a playoff caliber 6-9? Maybe. But even if it's not Memphis will have the exceptions to grab another veteran backup (with the bi-annual) and an impact bench player (with the mid-level). On top of that Memphis has three additional first-round selections in the next draft to replace Steven Hunter, Marcus Williams, and the ghost of Jerry Stackhouse.

This sounds like a damn complete team to me, and one that could make just as much noise in the playoffs as the Trailblazers or Hawks last season. Depending on Sam Young's development, it is lacking in scoring and shooting off the bench, but players like that will be a dime a dozen once teams splurge during the 2010 chaos. Even better, every player on this team will have grown together, unlike many other teams who will have likely seen significant restructuring during the planetary alignment. Barring any spectacular changes, if Rudy Gay is extended for a reasonable price the Memphis Grizzlies sure look like an 6th seed with nowhere to go but up in 2010.

Consider the state of every other rebuilding team in 2010. Their (Knicks, Nets, Suns, Kings, Bobcats, etc.) plans almost certainly include the hope of signing a marquee free agent or retaining a big name free agent if they intend to make the playoffs. In contrast the Grizzlies don't need a superstar in 2010, which is a good thing since some teams will almost certainly come away empty-handed.

Remember how this was supposed to be me arm-chair GM'ing the Grizzlies to relevancy? How many moves have I made with the team? Extending Rudy Gay is the only specific move that I see, and it is probably highly likely to happen if the will is there.

I know this feature was all fancy and speculation, but it still has an incredibly important takeaway theme. It's really simple to make the Grizzlies look pretty solid. Memphis is in control of its own fate, it doesn't require LeBron James or an Amar'e Stoudamire trade. I didn't have to armchair GM hardly at all to be an optimist. Why? Because Chris Wallace has done a pretty damn decent job for me.

So to truly answer my first question: The Memphis Grizzlies have a hell of a team this season, disconcerted fans and national media just might not notice it for a couple of years.

SB Nation - Darrell Arthur

You're Twenty Deep: Analyzing DeMarre Carroll

Mavericks Vs Grizzlies:Game 20 Preview

Darrell Arthur Too Buff: To Miss 4 Months

Spoiler Alert: Me and My Memphis Grizzlies

How many games will the Grizzlies win this season?

Under 20 wins.

Between 20 and 27 wins.

Between 28 and 34 wins.

Between 35 an and 42 wins.

Between 42 and 48 wins.

Over 48 wins.

Grizzlies Lose to Mavericks: 107-114

OKC Thunder @ Memphis Grizzlies OPEN THREAD

Thunder Gameday: Oklahoma City Thunder at Memphis Grizzlies

New Beginnings: Day 1

Around the Association: 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzlies- Going Back to Vancouver

Vancouver Grizzlies Primary Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies primary logo in use from 1996-200

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-200
A bear claw holding a basketball

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199
A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199
A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle

AB1's Fav 5 Vancouver Grizzlies of All-Time

5. Bryant Reeves

2. Shareef Abdur-Rahim

1. Steve Francis

Rewinding 2k8-2k9 Season

Projecting 2k9-2k10 Season

Allen Iverson: Maybe not THE Answer, but Definitely AN Answer

AN Answer for the Grizzlies

Golden Predictions

2009-2010 Around the Association

What feels the most golden?

Vancouver Grizzlies

Memphis Grizzlies

San Jose Grizzlies

Seattle Grizzlies

Grizzlies? GRIZZLIES?! WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GRIZZLIES MAN?!

Behind Blue Eyes: An Optimistic Look at the Future

SB Nation - Darrell Arthur

You're Twenty Deep: Analyzing DeMarre Carroll

Mavericks Vs Grizzlies:Game 20 Preview

Darrell Arthur Too Buff: To Miss 4 Months

Spoiler Alert: Me and My Memphis Grizzlies

How many games will the Grizzlies win this season?

Under 20 wins.

Between 20 and 27 wins.

Between 28 and 34 wins.

Between 35 an and 42 wins.

Between 42 and 48 wins.

Over 48 wins.

Grizzlies Lose to Mavericks: 107-114

OKC Thunder @ Memphis Grizzlies OPEN THREAD

Thunder Gameday: Oklahoma City Thunder at Memphis Grizzlies

New Beginnings: Day 1

Around the Association: 2009-2010 Memphis Grizzlies- Going Back to Vancouver

Vancouver Grizzlies Primary LogoVancouver Grizzlies primary logo in use from 1996-200

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate LogoVancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-200 A bear claw holding a basketball

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate LogoVancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199 A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate LogoVancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199 A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle

AB1's Fav 5 Vancouver Grizzlies of All-Time

5. Bryant Reeves

2. Shareef Abdur-Rahim

1. Steve Francis

Rewinding 2k8-2k9 Season

Projecting 2k9-2k10 Season

Allen Iverson: Maybe not THE Answer, but Definitely AN Answer

AN Answer for the Grizzlies

Golden Predictions

2009-2010 Around the Association

What feels the most golden?

Vancouver Grizzlies

Memphis Grizzlies

San Jose Grizzlies

Seattle Grizzlies

Grizzlies? GRIZZLIES?! WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GRIZZLIES MAN?!

Behind Blue Eyes: An Optimistic Look at the Future

Vancouver Grizzlies Primary Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies primary logo in use from 1996-200

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-200
A bear claw holding a basketball

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199
A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle

Vancouver Grizzlies Alternate Logo
Vancouver Grizzlies alternate logo in use from 1996-199
A Native American Bear with a basketball on a circle