SB Nation - Harrison Beck

Four Star Quarterbacks, Success, Failure, and What Michigan Football can Expect out of Tate Forcier

Maize n Brew Dave — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:33:59 -0000

As a general rule, highly rated quarterback recruits are the crown jewel of any school's recruiting class. Sure you can bring in a #1 Linebacker or a #1 Offensive Tackle, but those guys don't score points and their faces aren't plastered all over ABC or CBS every fall Saturday. Offenses simply don't work without an able bodied/minded signal caller under center.

But high school kids rarely turn out to be the person we thought they'd be coming out of high school. While Dr. Saturday has pointed out on numerous occasions (link no longer available) that a 5* player is far more likely than a 4* or 3* player to make the NFL, for some reason a 5* is far more likely to get himself arrested than a 4* or 3* (from the 2005 class at least). You get your five star flame outs (Ryan Perrilloux) far more often than your #1DC's like Matt Stafford, and you're just as likely to be starting a three star quarterback that you recruited as "insurance" than your four/five star savior.

For Michigan, this is not welcome news. Since the departure of five star rated Chad Henne, Michigan has gone from five star rated Ryan Mallett to no star rated Nick Sheridan to four star rated Steven Threet, back to Sheridan, then to two star Justin Feagin, to Threet, to Sheridan, and now, finally, to four star rated Tate Forcier. Looking at the preceding list, it's easy to disillusioned by the rankings process. Mallett transferred, Threet transferred (again), Sheridan was basically useless, and Feagin is being switched to receiver. As a result, Michigan will be starting a first year quarterback for the second straight year.

Despite Michigan's string of bad luck under center last year, it has failed to temper the enthusiasm of the Wolverine faithful when talking about Tate Forcier's first snaps. While (thankfully) this enthusiasm hasn't gone all Beano Cook, it is palpable when you talk to a Michigan fan. And to his credit, Forcier has done something to stoke that fire. Four passing touchdowns and one running touchdown in your spring game, your first anything against college competition, will get people excited.

Oddly, in watching that video the first thing that jumps out at me is not, OMG Savior!, it's "our defense is going to be baaaaaaaaaaad." But I digress. Watching this video is incredibly reassuring for any Michigan fan who had to sit through or pour over bad video of last year's spring practice. Combined, IIRC, Threet and Sheridan combined for 6 turnovers and no touchdowns via the air in 2008. And that performance was turned in against what proved to be the worst Michigan defense in Michigan history. I'm just saying.

So it's kind of hard to truly judge what we can expect out of Forcier against live competition, you know, the kind that will actually try to tackle him. Last year's quarterback play set the bar very low. But, Forcier seems to have the unique abilities required to run Rodriguez system. Tate showed the ability to throw on the run. Go deep. Scramble out of a sack. Not spike himself. These are good things.

Last year Michigan quarterbacks combined to go an abysmal 165/338 for 1718 yards, 11TD/12INT and a miserable combined QB rating of 95.2. Nick Sheridan's numbers alone make you cringe, a QB rating of 81.1 and a 2/5 TD/INT ratio despite starting a handful of games. If you just threw up a little in your mouth, you're not alone. Say what you want about changing systems, these guys were not and are not good quarterbacks in any system with numbers like that. Last year Forcier's numbers look like a shiny beacon in comparison. 208/326 for 3424 yards, 23/15 TD/INT ratio, 783 yards rushing on 92 attempts, and 12 rushing TDs. But lets break this down a bit.

For context on the competition, Forcier's High School, Scripps Ranch, is a Division II South school in California. Scripps is in the middle tier high school division for California schools with enrollment between 2400 and 1100 kids. The bigger Division I schools have enrollment from 2400 and up [some almost reaching 5000 enrollment]. Scripps is one of the larger Division II schools with enrollment around 2100. So he definitely facing decent competition, he's just not facing a Long Beach Poly kind of talent pool (4600+ kids).

Now, onto the numbers. One thing that jumps out at me is the 2 to 1 TD/INT ratio in 2008. Forcier, if you look at his numbers, had his best season as a HS junior where he was 21/5 TD/INT. But that's two years ago, with different personnel. Last year in 12 games, Forcier had just three games without an INT, and threw 2 picks or more in five games. Tate's playoff numbers were a mixed bag, throwing for over 300 yards in one game, but tossing a combined 5 picks in both play off games he played in. The glass half empty kind of person can take that as Tate wilting under pressure.

But the reality is that's far from the case. Scripps was a good, but not great team last year going 8-4. Their second round bow-out from the DII playoffs was against 12-0-1 Oceanside, the defending state champs, who won their fifth consecutive Division II section title in 2008. Forcier scored both TDs in the loss for Scripps, and a look at the boxscore shows there's not a lot you can do when you give up 28 points in the 4th quarter. Looking at the results, you'll note a couple of games where Scripps gave up 40+ points, including 70(!) to the eventual state champs, Cathedral. FWIW, Forcier was 21/36 for 295 yards, 4TDs and 1INT in the Cathedral game.

What all this means is Michigan is getting a kid who has taken his lumps, knows what it's like to get planted, and has played well against higher levels of competition. Is he the Rich Rod savior we've been hoping for? Chances are we're not going to know for a while. After the jump you'll find the Rivals rankings for every quarterback receiving four stars or higher since 2005, and a few three stars of note. Of this group, over five years, you're only going to find five or six quarterbacks that jump off the page at you. Three of those page jumpers are: Tebow, Bradford, and McCoy. Surprisingly, Bradford and McCoy were three star recruits.

If it seems like things are a little off moving towards 2005, you're right. In '05 Rivals handed out only thirteen four star plus ratings to quarterbacks. In 2009, Rivals handed out twenty five four star plus ratings, nearly double the 2005 amount. In my opinion, this might have something to do with the precipitous drop in production from 4* plus players. When you're handing out high ratings like candy, eventually you degrade the overall effect of that rating. It also explains why I'm nervous about anointing a four star quarterback, even a good one, as a program savior or more modestly as an offensive savior.

So what do these numbers mean for Michigan and Tate? It means we should all cool our jets a tad. Given the number of four and five star flameouts over the last five years, a four star QB is statistically more likely to be a bust than a success. Further, regardless of pedigree, even the best of the best get hammered in year one. Everyone remembers the lumps Chad Henne took as a first year starter, the bad throws, the bailouts by Braylon. And Chad was one of the highest ranked QB recruits in the country at the time. Sam Bradford's been a starter since day one but he got beaten down fairly regularly too. What helped Braford, and what is a major question mark for Forcier, is Bradford's OU defense was AWESOME that year and Bradford often had the opportunity to fix things when he messed up.

Tate's in that middle ground between OMG SHIRTLESS and good, solid prospect. On the negative side, he's shorter than we'd like. He's got good, but not great arm strength. He's shown a propensity, at least at the High School level to throw some picks. On the positive, he has shown great escapability. Great instincts. Good decision making. Has a resume jam packed with awards and MVPS. And an arm that is more than capable of delivering the ball down field and into tight pockets mid field. But all this is conjecture before he plays a single game. So before we all start bringing offerings to his temple, let's allow the kid to show us what he can do in a real game environment.

But here's where the realistic fan in me comes out; it's really hard not to get excited about what he's shown so far. On the basis of his high school career, spring performance, and Rodriguez offense, 2,300 passing yards, 700 rushing yards, 15/9 TD/INT, 6 Rushing TD seems like a reasonable expectation. Juice Williams threw for 3,000 plus last year while running for 700 yards on a bad team. Having seen both players throw, I like Forcier considerably more than Williams as a passer. The rushing numbers will be comparable just because of the nature of the offense. Forcier's going to run the ball. It's a necessity in this offense. So he'll have every opportunity to gain rushing yards.

I may be underselling the passing a tad, but I don't know how well our receivers are going to play this year. They should be a solid group, but there were a lot of dropped and misplayed balls last year. If the receivers play better, I think Tate can get them the ball and my projection would go up from there.

Thoughts?

Here's the list of ranked quaterbacks from 2005 forward. Help me fill in the blanks on these guys if you can.

Rivals.com dual-threat quarterbacks 2009

1Russell Shepard 5* LSU

2Tyrik Rollison 4* Auburn

3Eugene Smith 4* West Virginia

4Kevin Newsome 4* Penn State

5Tate Forcier 4* Michigan

6Cody Green 4* Nebraska

7Nathan Scheelhaase 4* Illinois

8Shavodrick Beaver 4* Tulsa

9Casey Pachall 4* TCU

10Jordan Reed 4* Florida

11Raymond Cotton 4* Ole Miss

Not included – 14 Denard Robinson 4* ATH - Michigan

Rivals.com pro-style quarterbacks 2009

1Matt Barkley 5* USC

2Garrett Gilbert 5* Texas

3Aaron Murray 4* Georgia

4Tajh Boyd 4* Clemson

5Bryn Renner 4* North Carolina

6Richard Brehaut 4* UCLA

7AJ McCarron 4* Alabama

8Tom Savage 4* Rutgers

9Andrew Maxwell 4* Michigan State

10Allan Bridgford 4* California

11Zach Mettenberger 4* Georgia

12Tyler Russell 4* Mississippi State

13Josh Nunes 4* Stanford

14Ryan Mossakowski 4* Kentucky

Rivals.com dual-threat quarterbacks 2008

1Terrelle Pryor 5* OSU – You may have heard of him

2E.J. Manuel 4* Florida State

3MarQueis Gray 4* Minnesota - eligibility issues

4Robert Griffin 4* Baylor - Starter

5Matt Scott 4* Arizona

6Darron Thomas 4* Oregon - Bench

7Curt Phillips 4* Wisconsin

8B.J. Daniels 4* South Florida

9Kody Spano 3* Nebraska

10Jaybo Shaw 3* Georgia Tech - Included for awesome name

Rivals.com pro-style quarterbacks 2008

1Blaine Gabbert 5* Missouri - sorta starter

2Dayne Crist 5* Notre Dame - Bench

3Mike Glennon 4* N.C. State - starter

4Andrew Luck 4* Stanford

5Star Jackson 4* Alabama

6Landry Jones 4* Oklahoma

7Jacory Harris 4* Miami - Starter

8Jordan Jefferson 4* LSU

9Tyler Wilson 4* Arkansas

10Kyle Parker 4* Clemson

Rivals.com dual-threat quarterbacks 2007

1Tyrod Taylor 5* VTech – Starter

2Cameron Newton 5* Florida

3Aaron Corp 4* Southern Cal - Starter

4Stephen Garcia 4* South Carolina - washout?

5Willy Korn 4* Clemson - Starter

6Keith Nichol 4* Oklahoma - Bench/transfer?

7Chris Forcier 4* UCLA - Washout/transfer

8Kodi Burns 4*Auburn

9Josh Nesbitt 4* Georgia Tech - starter

10Logan Gray 4* Georgia

11Kellen Kiilsgaard 4* Stanford

12Bradley Starks 4* West Virginia

Rivals.com pro-style quarterbacks 2007

1Jimmy Clausen 5* Notre Dame - Starter

2Ryan Mallett 5* Michigan – Transfer/Starter

3John Brantley 4* Florida

4Mike Paulus 4* North Carolina

5Peter Lalich 4*Virginia

6Pat Bostick 4*Pittsburgh - Bench

7Jarrett Lee 4* LSU - sorta starter

8Robert Marve 4* Miami-FL - washout/transfer

9Steven Threet 4* Georgia Tech – Sadly, washout/Transfer x2.

10BJ Coleman 4* Tennessee - nothing

Rivals.com: Dual-threat quarterbacks 2006

1Tim Tebow 5* Florida (Football Jesus)

2Demetrius Jones 4* Notre Dame Washout/Transfer – Now a linebacker at NIU

3Jevan Snead 4* Texas – Transfer/Starter at Ole Miss

4Jake Locker 4* Washington – Punching bag/Starter

5Jeremy Ricker 4* Maryland

6Austen Arnaud 4* Iowa State

7Garrett Green 4* Southern Cal - bench

8Sherrod Harris 4* Texas - bench

9Antonio Henton 4* Ohio State – Who?

11Rick Stanzi 3* Iowa – Starter/Manzi

14Adam Weber 3* Minnesota - Starter

15Nate Davis 3* Ball State - NFL

16Todd Reesing 3* Kansas – Marky M says Balla.

Rivals.com Pro-style quarterbacks 2006

1Matthew Stafford 5* Georgia 1DC

2Mitch Mustain 5* Arkansas Washout

3Isiah Williams 4* Illinois Starter

4Josh Freeman 4* Kansas State Starter/washout/NFL?

5Pat Devlin 4* Penn State washout/transfer

6Kevin Riley 4* California sorta starter

7Neil Caudle 4* Auburn bench

8Chris Smelley 4* South Carolina sorta starter/washout

9Zach Frazer 4* Notre Dame washout

10Tyler Lyon 3* Arizona Bench

11Greg McElroy 3* Alabama – Starter (sorta)

12Sam Bradford 3* Oklahoma (Heisman winner)

Rivals.com Pro-style quarterbacks 2005

1Mark Sanchez 5* Southern Cal - NFL

2Jonathan Crompton 4* Tennessee - sorta starter

3Harrison Beck 4* Nebraska

4Derek Shaw 4* Arizona State

5Willie Tuitama 4* Arizona - One Time Stater/washout

6Rob Schoenhoft 4* Ohio State - bench

7Joe Cox 4* Georgia - bench?

8Arkelon Hall 3* Washington St.

9Domenic Natale 3* Michigan State

10Sean Canfield 3* Oregon State

11Bill Stull 3* Pittsburgh - starter

12Evan Sharpley 3* Notre Dame - Graduated

14Dustin Sherer 3* Wisconsin - sorta starter

15Colt McCoy 3* Texas - Starter Heisman Candidate

Rivals.com: Dual-threat quarterbacks 2005

1Ryan Perrilloux 5* LSU - Washout of spectacular fashion

2Jake Christensen 4* Iowa - Washout

3Ike Whitaker 4* Virginia Tech - Washout

4Josh Portis 4* Florida - ?

5Kyle Reed 4* California - ?

6Chase Daniel 4* Missouri - NFL?

7Jimmy Johns 3* Alabama - Proveyor of Fine Powdered Products

10Zac Robinson 3* Oklahoma State - Starter

Let the Madness Begin Buff Bites

Jon Woods — Thu, 19 Mar 2009 20:48:00 -0000

So begins one of the two best days of the year. Non-stop basketball madness with 3 and 4 games at a time and upsets galore. The games have already begun (so I guess that Butler over UNC pick isn't going to happen...) and I sure most of you are having the least productive work day in a long time. As a reminder the tournament coverage here on SBNation will be fast and furious over at Searching for Billy Edelin, our general college basketball blog. There will be plenty of action on the open threads over there so head on over.

I can't start with anything other than this post from Peter Bean at Burnt Orange Nation. Anytime you can reference and discuss The Wire (aka the best show to ever appear on tv) then you have earned some points in my book. Nice work Peter.

It has gotten a ton of coverage for some reason so I am sure you have all seen or heard the big deal made out of Barack Obama filling out his bracket (he picks UNC to win it all), but did any of you see Coach K comment on it on Sportscenter this morning? Telling Obama that he should be worrying about the economy instead of talking about the tournament was just plain stupid. Don't worry Mike, I'm sure Barack didn't put more than two mintues of thought into his "picks" and the stock market shouldn't suffer too much.

The Buffs may have not been invited to any post season tournaments this year (hopefully for the last time in a while) but that doesn't mean that they can't stage their own version of "March Madness". We learned earlier this year about Hawkins dividing his players up into "accountability groups" so that the team could watch over each other in an effort to keep them from getting into the offseason shenanhagans happened last year. Well last night was the "final four" of a basketball tournament that they have been staging between the groups over the last few weeks. Any guesses on what players may have been on the championship team? I'd be willing to bet that very few of you mentioned Cody Hawkins, Jason Espinoza or Speedy Stewart but they were the leaders of the team who took home the title.

Tim Griffin of ESPN.com goes around the Big 12 looking at each teams quarterback situation. Man, do I hate when they do this like this for the Buffs. Calling Clark Evans and Austin Hinder...we are waiting for you! Bring us stability!

Some good news for the Buffalo football team. Fifth year senior cornerback Ben Burney will participate in spring drills when they start in 12 short days.

Finally, two Quarterback tidbits from our friends to the East.

- Former Miami QB Robert Marve has now declared that Nebraksa is one of the schools that he will consider transferring to and that he will be taking a visit to the Cornhuskers Spring Game. It seems like this kid is "considering" nearly half of the Big 12 but it looks as though the interest isn't being reciprocated nearly as much as he would like.

- Remember when Nebraksa fans were claiming former hotshot recruit Harrison Beck to be the next big thing in Lincoln? Well, he certainly sees the Russell Wilson writing on the wall and will be transferring to the University of North Alabama. Good luck with that.

2008 College Fooball Week Five Predictions: The Door Is Open!

Jon Johnston — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:21:39 -0000

I was all prepared to write a lead-in complaining about the scheduling in college football, how we haven’t seen many great games, how we need to not hear about the need for a playoff at the end of the year but we do need strength of schedule added back into the BCS formula so there's an incentive for schools to schedule games against good teams.

Then along comes the Oregon State Beavers. If you missed this game, shame on you. Oregon State ran up the middle, manhandling the vaunted USC defense for most of the game. The first half, USC tallied only three first downs, while Oregon State racked up 21 points.

We keep hearing about how many great players USC recruits and has on roster every year, but throughout the game we kept hearing about how many star players for USC were hurt and weren't on the field. Bullocks! Bullocks I say!

This one wasn't about how hard it is to play at Oregon State. It wasn't about Trojan injuries. It was about a team that didn't show up to play their best, their hardest and having their innards handed to them by a team that did.

That’s it for USC, there will be no PAC 10 champ. The conference isn’t strong enough, all of the other top teams will have to lose two games. I don't think everyone will be so obliging, and after watching SC's defense, maybe they'll lose another.

Woooeee! On to the picks!

Alabama at Georgia

Georgia by 7

Husker Mike: Georgia has looked good, but not as dominant as people predicted. It's in Athens though. Maybe dominant isn't the right word. Folks thought they were the best in the country, but also felt that the SEC was too tough for them to escape unscathed. They haven't looked like the best yet, though. Good to be sure. Just not >that< good.

Corn Blight: That Arizona State game bothered me. I thought they'd smoke ASU worse than they did. They could have scored right at the end, though, so the final score was deceptive. In Georgia, with Knowshon Moreno and Stafford at QB against Nick Saban, I'm going Dawgs.

Husker Mike: Sabanator 31, Dawgies 28
Corn Blight: Dawgs 31, 'Bama 27

Wisconsin at Michigan

Wisconsin by 6.5

Corn Blight: Wisconsin, same ol' same ol' versus lost Meechegan
Husker Mike: Michigan's had two weeks to figure something out. It's the 500th game at the Big House though. Hmmm... Bucky 500, Weasels 0?

Corn Blight: Badgers 23, Michigan 13
Husker Mike: Bucky 31, Weasels 13

Tennessee at Auburn

Auburn by 6.5

Corn Blight: Auburn can't score. Neither can Tennessee. You have to wonder if Fulmer will survive past this season.
Husker Mike: Nobody can score on Auburn either. Two crappy offenses, one good defense.

Husker Mike: Auburn 16, Tennessee 4
Corn Blight: Auburn 17, TN 10

Purdue at Notre Dame

Corn Blight: Notre Dame is still lost. Jimmy Clausen=suckage, he hasnÕt improved at all. Purdue can score. Notre Dame really can't.
Husker Mike: Except when they play the weasels. Purdue isn't much either. But yeah, they can score at least.

Corn Blight: Purdue 27, Notre Dame 20
Husker Mike: Boilermakers 31, Amish 10

Illinois at Penn State

Penn State only favored by 14.5

Corn Blight: Penn State wins this going away. Zooker = overrated

Husker Mike: Penn State might give the Big 11 some respectability this season. Illinois can only score against teams with a black "M" on their helmet.

Husker Mike: Fighting JoePa's 56, Fighting Zookers 13
Corn Blight: Nitts 35, Zooker 17

North Carolina at Miami-Fla.

Miami favored by 7.5

Husker Mike: North Carolina lost their QB. This should be ugly. MIami scored 40+ against A&M.
Corn Blight: Yeah, but it'll be ugly on both sides of offense. Still, Miami should be able to run against North Carolina. Sooner or later, they'll wear them down if NC can't keep their offense going.

Husker Mike: Canes 24, Heels 6
Corn Blight: Miami 31, Tar Heels 17

Fresno State at UCLA

Fresno favored by 6.5

Corn Blight: Did you see that UCLA had taken out an ad urging Fresno State fans to buy tickets? UCLA is just too beat up, but Ricky can pull stuff out his butt at home. Not this time, though.
Husker Mike: Fresno can buy all the tickets they want. Rose Bowel security just won't let them in. Fresno can be flakey at time. One game, they can nearly knock off a USC. Next week, lose to a 1-AA team. Unfortunately, UCLA's only offense was against Tennessee.

Corn Blight: Fresno 30, UCLA 24
Husker Mike: Fresno 24, UCLA 7

South Florida at N.C. State

South Florida by 8.5

Husker Mike: I think South Florida has a decent defense. And Harrison Beck is starting for NC State. Check out this quote:

In 10 career games, Beck has four touchdown passes and 12 interceptions. All four of his touchdown passes came against non-BCS conference foe Central Florida and FCS team William & Mary. "He can wing it around," (NC State head coach Tom) O'Brien said. "We're just going to have to tell him that we're wearing the red jerseys on Saturday night, and we'll be in good shape."

Corn Blight: No need to say anymore than that.

Husker Mike: Bulls 28, Becks 7
Corn Blight: Bulls 31, NC State 13

Arkansas at Texas

Tejas favored by 27.5

Corn Blight: Arkansas sucks. They'll be missing old Nutt after this game.
Husker Mike: They replaced one circus (Nutt) with another (Petrino)

Husker Mike: Cows 49, Piggies 7
Corn Blight: Texas 41, Hogs 14

Army at Texas A&M

A&M is favored by 28.5

Husker Mike: New Hampshire scored 28 on Army, Temple scored 35. Army's only scored 20 points all season.
Corn Blight: Even Mike Sherman can't screw this one up at home.

Corn Blight: Aggies 38, Army 9
Husker Mike: Cadets of Bill Byrne 38, Black Knights of the Hudson 3

Colorado at Florida State

Florida State is favored by 5.5

Husker Mike: It's in Jacksonville. At least CU has an offense against 1-A opponents. FSU might have a decent defense though. I think this is going to be fairly low scoring.
Corn Blight: Florida State.... no QB, no offense. FSU has a decent defense but they only scored 3 points against Wake. What was it, five INTs between two QB's?

Corn Blight: CU 17, FSU 13
Husker Mike: Buffies 13, Seminoles 6

TCU at Oklahoma

Sooners favored by 17

Husker Mike: TCU beat Stanford 31-14. Beat SMU 48-7. I don't think TCU can beat the Sooners, though, but they'll give 'em a run for their money. (TCU can't win, unless of course, they cheat...)
Corn Blight: What is it with Oklahoma and complaining? Ah well, the Mountain West Conference is kicking ass this season. Utah, BYU, TCU. TCU can't beat the Sooners but they can embarrass them.

Husker Mike: Sooners 21, TCU 17
Corn Blight: Sooners 28, TCU 23.

Virginia Tech at Nebraska

Nebraska by 6.5

Husker Mike: At least Va Tech has played somebody. I don't think we've shown much on offense so far. Our only problem is the mobile quarterback. Except Tyrod Taylor doesn't have the arm of a Ell Roberson. And he's not Vince Young or even Brad Smith either.
Corn Blight: I can see our running game working well enough to set up the pass.
To stop Virginia Tech's offense, we can stack the run, and our CB's should cover their receivers. As long as we don't make mistakes, we win. Virginia Tech is good on the road, though.

Husker Mike: I'm going to go with Nebraska 21, Virginia Tech 17.
Corn Blight: Nebraska 28, VT 21

Corn Blight: We really really really need this win.
Husker Mike: This sets the tone for the rest of the season. Lose to Tech, and suddenly you don't see a lot of W's on this schedule.