SB Nation - Jordan Palmer

Inactive List: Detroit Lions (2-9) at Cincinnati Bengals (8-3)

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 16:38:57 -0000

CINCINNATI BENGALS

Bengals_Helmet.gif" height="154" width="200" />
INACTIVE	DOUBTFUL	PROBABLE
Jordan Palmer	Jonathan Luigs	Laveranues Coles
Domata Peko	Domata Peko	Kyries Hebert
Bernard Scott	Bernard Scott	Tank Johnson
Jonathan Luigs		Rey Maualuga
Jerome Simpson		Frostee Rucker
Chase Coffman		Morgan Trent
Dan Skuta		Cedric Benson
Fui Vakapuna		Keith Rivers
		Tom Nelson

Lions_Helmet.gif" height="154" width="200" />
INACTIVE	OUT	PROBABLE
QB Drew Staton	S Kalvin Pearson	DT Grady Jackson
WR Eric Fowler	WR Eric Fowler	DE Andre Fluellen
S Kalvin Pearson		LB Zack Follett
FB Terrelle Smith	QUESTIONABLE	WR Calvin Johnson
LB Ernie Sims	G Daniel Loper	QB Matthew Stafford
G Daniel Loper	S Louis Delmas
OT Ephraim Salaam	LB Ernie Sims
DT Grady Jackson	DE Dewayne White

Final Injury/Practice Report: Cincinnati Bengals @ Green Bay Packers

Kirkendall — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 14:31:11 -0000

Every Wednesday, Thursday and Friday evening, we'll update the practice/injury chart leading up to Sunday's game. The chart is pretty self-explanatory. If the player is listed as out, they're out for the game. If they did not participate, they didn't practice. If they were limited, then they only participated during a portion of practice (typically means missing 11-on-11 drills). If the player is listed as full participation, it simply means that they practiced fully and that the only reason they're listed is because injury was an issue the week before.

Cincinnati Bengals

OUT	PROBABLE
CB David Jones (foot)	T Scott Kooistra (knee)
T Andre Smith (foot)	RB Brian Leonard (chest)
G Nate Livings (knee)	QB Jordan Palmer (illness)

Green Bay Packers

OUT	QUESTIONABLE	PROBABLE
S Atari Bigby (knee)	G Daryn Colledge (foot)	CB Will Blackmon (quadricep)
RB Brandon Jackson (ankle)	DT B.J. Raji (ankle)	K Mason Crosby (abdomen)
		WR Greg Jennings (wrist)

Practice

BENGALS	WED	THUR	FRI
CB David Jones (foot)	OUT	OUT	OUT
T Andre Smith (foot)	OUT	OUT	OUT
G Nate Livings (knee)	DNP	DNP	OUT
DE Jonathan Fanene (not injury related)	DNP	--	--
RB Brian Leonard (chest)	LP	LP	FP
T Scott Kooistra (knee)	FP	FP	FP
QB Jordan Palmer (illness)	--	DNP	FP

PACKERS	WED	THUR	FRI
S Atari Bigby (knee)	OUT	OUT	OUT
RB Brandon Jackson (ankle)	DNP	DNP	DNP
K Mason Crosby (abdomen)	LP	LP	LP
WR Greg Jennings (wrist)	LP	LP	LP
CB Will Blackmon (quadricep)	FP	FP	FP
DT B.J. Raji (ankle)	FP	FP	FP
G Daryn Colledge (foot)	--	LP	LP
T Chad Clifton (not injury related)	--	--	LP

DNP - Did Not Practice
LP - Limited Participation in Practice
FP - Full Participation in Practice

Friday Injury Report: Bengals at Green Bay Packers

Brandon — Sat, 19 Sep 2009 13:00:33 -0000

We've been discussing the loss of S Atari Bigby in a couple different posts this week, so that's familiar territory. My take is that although Bigby is better than his replacement, S Aaron Rouse, there's not much difference between the two.

RB Brandon Jackson is going to miss his 3rd straight game (going back to the preseason) because of the ankle injury he suffered during the Arizona game, which again will leave RB DeShawn Wynn as the only running back behind RB Ryan Grant.

LG Daryn Colledge and NT B.J. Raji both are listed as questionable, but it seems like Mike McCarthy expects them to play. They're both game time decisions. Everyone else on the injury list should be good to go.

Obviously the biggest name on the Bengals' injury report is No. 6 overall pick OL Andre Smith. After a lengthy holdout, he broke his foot in his first or second practice as a Bengal. LG Nate Livings started last week, but he's out with a knee injury and OL Evan Mathis is expected to start in his place. They'll get some depth back as OL Scott Kooistra, born in Madison, WI, returns for the first time in a while from his knee injury. CB David Jones would probably be the nickel cornerback, if he wasn't out with a broken foot, so the Bengals might struggle against multiple receiver sets. Those aren't household names, but the Bengals are missing two starters and a top backup.

From Packers.com:

Player	Pos.	Injury	Friday Participation	Friday Status
Atari Bigby	S	Knee	Out	Out
Will Blackmon	CB	Quadricep	Full Participation	Probable
Chad Clifton	T	Not Injury Related	Limited Participation	N/A
Daryn Colledge	G	Foot	Limited Participation	Questionable
Mason Crosby	K	Abdomen	Limited Participation	Probable
Brandon Jackson	RB	Ankle	Did Not Participate	Out
Greg Jennings	WR	Wrist	Limited Participation	Probable
B.J. Raji	NT	Ankle	Full Participation	Questionable

Player	Pos.	Injury	Friday Participation	Friday Status
Jonathan Fanene	DT	Not Injury Related	(Not Listed)	N/A
David Jones	CB	Foot	Out	Out
Scott Kooistra	OT	Knee	Full Participation	Probable
Brian Leonard	HB	Chest	Full Participation	Probable
Nate Livings	G	Knee	Did Not Participate	Out
Jordan Palmer	QB	Illness	Full Participation	Probable
Andre Smith	OT	Foot	Out	Out

Presenting the Cincinnati Bengals 53-man Roster; and immediate reaction, of course

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:30:46 -0000

Now that the cuts are announced, let's make one thing clear. It's very unlikely that this is the final 53-man roster that will kickoff the season next weekend. With players being released and waived, the Bengals, like all other 31 NFL teams can pour over available players. If they decide to put a claim on a player, they will be sixth in line. If the other fives teams decide not to claim the player that the Bengals are interested in, then that player can be signed by the Bengals.

Let's take a look at the existing roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive Ends (5)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson		Frostee Rucker
	Bernard Scott
	Brian Leonard	Defensive Tackles (3)	Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Pat Sims
			Tank Johnson
Fullbacks (1)	Jeremi Johnson
		Linebackers (6)	Keith Rivers
Tight End (3)	Daniel Coats		Dhani Jones
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
	J.P. Foschi		Rey Maualuga
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receivers (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles
	Chris Henry	Cornerbacks (5)	Johnathan Joseph
	Andre Caldwell		Leon Hall
	Jerome Simpson		David Jones
	Quan Cosby		Geoffrey Pope
			Morgan Trent
Offensive Line (10)	Andrew Whitworth
	Anthony Collins	Safeties (5)	Chris Crocker
	Bobbie Williams		Roy Williams
	Nate Livings		Chinedum Ndukwe
	Kyle Cook		Tom Nelson
	Andre Smith *		Kyries Hebert
	Jonathan Luigs
	Scott Kooistra	Special (3)	Shayne Graham
	Evan Mathis		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

* Andre Smith has a roster exemption until September 14.

Immediate Reaction and Notes

We projected that the Bengals would take eight defensive linemen; we split it up four and four. While the Bengals actually did take eight, they went heavy with defensive ends, keeping oft-injured Frostee Rucker. I actually don't have a problem with this because Rucker can make plays. The only issue with him has been durability. If he has an injury-free season, he could be a surprise player. On the other hand, he missed two preseason games this year.
Can the Bengals sustain a three-man defensive tackle rotation? Rucker and Fanene both have experience playing defensive tackle also -- maybe the biggest reason for keeping Rucker.
The more we started thinking about it, we realized the Bengals would take five backs; four of whom could be running backs.
In the weeks leading up to today, I've watched J.P. Foschi and started feeling that the Bengals might keep him around. He's a decent blocker and I feel he could be a decent third-string Tight End in the NFL. However, he could also be babysitting the position if the Bengals sign someone after all of the cuts are final. In our projections, we thought it might make the team better keeping a second fullback than a third Tight End.
Save for Marvin White, all players that were waived -- 17 in all -- are eligible for the practice squad.
Somehow, I'm not surprised that Antonio Chatman went on Injured Reserved.
I thought cutting Darryl Blackstock was somewhat of a surprise. However, he wasn't replaced. The Bengals simply took six linebackers. He would have likely been the seventh.
I was very happy with Abdul Hodge making the team and felt, as we watched preseason unfold, that he was a lock for the sixth linebacker slot.
The Cincinnati Bengals tweet that David Jones and Scott Kooistra are the only players not healthy heading into the opener.

Predicting the Cincinnati Bengals' 53-man roster. A look into the minds of CincyJungle writers

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:05:53 -0000

On Friday, Josh (Kirkendall), Craig (A Pragmatic Bengals Fan), Chris (IFChris) and Jake (jsl413) sat in a room and decided to take on the task filling out the 53-man roster. While initially our intended goal was based on prediction, we also set the roster with players that we think makes the team stronger. For example, our more radical idea that might not be on the mind of the Bengals brass, is to take four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends. We thought that keeping four good running backs and two good full backs would make the team far more stronger than simply adding a third tight end that's currently on the roster; or some tight end that another team released. Even if Dorsey is the fourth running back, he's a strong contributor on special teams. So he makes the team stronger, in our minds. Anyway.

Let's get right to it. Here's our 53-man roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive End (4)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson
	Bernard Scott	Defensive Tackle (4)	Pat Sims
	Brian Leonard		Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Tank Johnson
			Langston Moore
Fullbacks (2)	Jeremi Johnson
	Fui Vakapuna	Linebackers (7)	Keith Rivers
			Dhani Jones
Tight Ends (2)	Daniel Coats		Rey Maualuga
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receiver (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles		Darryl Blackstock
	Chris Henry
	Andre Caldwell	Secondary (9)	Johnathan Joseph
	Jerome Simpson		Leon Hall
	Quan Cosby		Chris Crocker
			Chinedum Ndukwe
Offensive Line (9)	Andrew Whitworth		Roy Williams
	Bobbie Williams		Kyries Hebert
	Nate Livings		Tom Nelson
	Kyle Cook		Morgan Trent
	Anthony Collins		David Jones
	Andre Smith
	Scott Kooistra	Special Teams (3)	Shayne Graham
	Jonathan Luigs		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

There's several notable players missing. For example, after some debate, we elected to keep Jason Shirley off the roster, thinking he could be a Marvin Lewis project; which could force him on the practice squad if he clears waivers. In our minds, he's just not ready yet. Marvin White missed the cut; not because of anything he did, but we felt others were surpassing him. However, we shouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. Antonio Chatman's history is too much for a roster spot and a debate broke out between keeping Cosby and Maurice Purify. And we all loved Dan Stuka.

Stay with us all day as we analyze the team's roster cuts as they come through.

Here's a transcript of our entire conversation, or round table, that shows how we came to the conclusion on our 53-man roster.

TRANSCRIPT

Josh Kirkendall: We have 75 players and 53 spots. So by the end of the day, we'll be eliminating 22 players. I know you guys agree that quarterback is relatively easy enough. So let's get to the meat and potatoes of the topic. Running back.
Craig: Wow, diving right in.
Jake: Well running back, to me, is going to be Cedric Benson, Brian Leonard, and Bernard Scott. Just a question of if they keep four. They will want to protect Scott, and they went out and traded for Leonard, so they must see something in him
Craig: I agree with Jake, but not on the order. I think it'll be Benson, Scott, and Leonard. If they keep 4, obviously DeDe Dorsey will stick. Odd man out is James Johnson.
Jake: I honestly think we'll see Scott/Leonard split 2nd string duties. They're both pretty good.
Josh: I agree. I think Cedric and Scott are locks. And Scott and Dorsey have the same skillset. So if the team goes with three running backs, then Dorsey is the odd man out. However, if they go four, then do the Bengals only keep Jeremi Johnson at full back? Many, including the coaches, have high praise with Chris Pressley.
Jake: I don't think they'll risk just keeping Johnson at FB. If they do, they'll definitely put Pressley on the practice squad.
Josh: Last year, the Bengals took three running backs and 2 fullbacks.
Craig: As much as I like Vakapuna's ceiling, you can't let go of a guy who bent a friggin' facemask. Pressley has to stay if at all possible.
Josh: Do you think there's a chance that they keep Johnson and Vakapuna, but put Pressley on the practice squad. In terms of exposure, or notoriety, more people recognize Vakapuna's name more than Pressley's.
Craig: I think Hard Knocks may make it tough to sneak Pressley through to the PS, honestly.
Josh: Good point.

(Chris wakes from his slumber)

Chris: So is Kenny Watson done?
Jake: He was cut a while ago.
Chris: (sigh)
Josh: If the Bengals go four running backs, then who is the fullback?
Chris: Fui
Craig: I think, unfortunate as it is, that JJ is the first FB on the roster. Redeemer and all.
Jake: I think Jeremi Johnson is completely capable as long as he keeps in shape. He had a couple of excellent seasons, remember.
Josh: I agree there. JJ makes the squad as the starting fullback.
Chris: From the limited stuff I've seen, I like what Fui brings.
Josh: Now, if the Bengals take three running backs, who is your backup fullback?
Craig: At this point, I think that Pressley is the second man on the roster. The coaches in the meetings said, point blank, that Pressley is the best blocker.
Josh: You've seen on Hard Knocks how much the coaches play his tough style. Didn't Mike Brown ask what a fullback does?
Chris: Wow
Jake: They love physicality. They want to compete with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
Craig: That's why I hate Johnson being around. There's no reason to not keep Fui and Pressley around. Jake hits it on the head. Pressley gives them the best chance at pancaking the linebacking corps of the AFC North.
Chris: So who's the starter?
Craig: Johnson.
Chris: Gotcha
Josh: An interesting thought is keeping Johnson and Vakapuna and sneak Pressley through Waivers for the practice squad. How many squads are looking for a FB anyway? He might not be that well known. Though I think Craig is right about Hard Knocks documenting him so much. Damned Hard Knocks.

Josh: I had an interesting thought. What if the Bengals go with four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends? And you know that Coats and Chase make the squad. It's a weakened position anyway and I don't expect signing someone that make us instantly better. Plus the offense has never really utilized the TE position.
Jake: When was the last time they carried only 2 tight ends?
Josh: Actually, they only kept two last year and in 2006.
Craig: That's actually a good though, Josh. I like that.
Jake: Interesting. Well, given how shallow it is, I guess two isn't a bad idea. They can use Andre Smith at a TE in goalline packages.
Craig: They can toss that around, if he ever gets in shape.
Chris: I was going more for fullback for Andre
Jake: No way a 350 pounder can play anywhere but on the line of scrimmage.
Craig: Again...did you see the fat guy waddle he was rocking in last week's Hard Knocks? Dude looked terrrrrible.
Josh: The thought is that you keep the running back and fullback position strong, while keeping TE status quo. The question at this point is who will be available after cut down day that the team could sign that would make the tight ends better. And does Foschi really make your squad better than, say, Dorsey and/or Pressley?
Craig: Absolutely not would be the answer to your question, Josh.
Jake: Does Pressley have the ability to learn TE?
Josh: Like a hybrid?
Jake: Yeah, like Coats. Except better.
Josh: I will make another prediction that Foschi makes the practice squad. Of the things he's shown, he's not bad. Needs some refinement; could he could be a decent third TE in this league.
Chris: I like the two tight ends and it keeps a space in off chance Utecht ever gets healthy. Which is doubtful
Josh: Utecht is out for the year. On IR.
Craig: I doubt we see him ever again.
Chris: Me too
Josh: That could depend on Coats.
Craig: I don't mind Coats, but I don't think anyone sees him as a long term answer to anything? Pressley wouldn't be a bad option as a RB/FB hybrid. How are his hands?
Josh: To be honest, I'm not sure. He didn't have a catch this preseason.
Chris: Coffman is obviously being groomed here.
Chris: Keep in mind, Kelly might be healthy next season too
Josh: I'm not sure he'll be back either. He's UFA after this year
Craig: I look for big things from Coffman, just not this year. Not early, anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly come back as a coach in some capacity.
Josh: Yea, he's a strong lockerroom presence. The team respects him alot.
Chris: If he still wants to play, I'd sign to a one-year at least
Craig: Absolutely.
Chris: Make him Chase's personal coach
Jake: Chase isn't going be anything like Kelly was though. He's not the blocking type. Although if he developed strength, that's something he could work on this year, that would be a bonus.
Josh: There's a lot of interesting thoughts here. But the question is, what do we do? Do we keep 3RB/2FB/3TE or 4 RB/1FB/3TB or 4RB/2FB/2TE? I like the latter. The 4RB/2FB/2TE.
Chris: The latter
Craig: I say 4/2/2. I think that's the best way to keep the most talent on the squad.
Jake: I'd say 4 2 2
Josh: Sweet.

Josh: So who is the second fullback? I favor Pressley. Though I believe the team will go with Vakapuna.
Craig: I really think its Pressley, which means we'll lose Fui.
Chris: If the staff says Pressley is the better blocker...
Craig: Although, check that; Mike Brown is in the equation. The coaches want Pressley, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that Mike goes with the draft pick.
Josh: I wouldn't doubt that.
Craig: So are we agreed on Vakapuna then, even reluctantly?
Chris: I want the best blocker
Josh: I'm honestly not sure.
Jake: I'd assume we keep the draft pick. Pressley to the practice squad.
Chris: Then yeah, the draft pick
Craig: If he makes it there
Josh: I think I favor Pressley, but I see the team taking Fui.
Chris: Fui is supposed to be a good pass-catcher

(Josh departs momentarily)

Craig: What are your guys' plans for the holiday weekend?
Chris: I cannot wait for tomorrow. College football overdose.
Jake: Party?
Craig: I know! I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, then I'll be at the Canfield Fair all day on Sunday. Performing in a big show Sunday night.
Chris: Yes, absolutely a party
Jake: All my friends are away.
Craig: It's all right, you'll have several college athletes to keep you company!
Chris: Beer and college football. That'll be all the friends we need.

Josh: I believe the top four wide receivers are set: Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Andre Caldwell. I think the team keeps Jerome Simpson simply because he was the team's second round pick last year. There are four wide receivers competing for that last spot. Now, do you guys believe Simpson makes the squad? If so, then who will be the sixth? I believe Quan Cosby makes it.
Jake: I think Simpson definitely makes it. He's flashed some skills.
Craig: It's down to Purify or Cosby for me if Simpson stays; which I think he does also.
Jake: I didn't see enough of the game last night to make the call if Cosby makes it
Craig: Cosby didn't do much if anything last night, but neither did Purify; if I recall correctly, anyway. Again, I missed the first half.
Chris: Simpson stays.
Josh: What about Antonio Chatman? He could be a Marvin Lewis favorite, making the squad by default. Purify's only advantage is that he has more receptions than Cosby. Cosby has none on offense, by the way.
Jake: How could Chatman possibly make it at this point?
Craig: Man. Forgot about Chatman, completely.
Josh: I don't see it either.
Craig: I think I agree. Chatman has to be out.
Jake: I mean, I guess I see that he's Marvin’s boy, but man, please, no.
Josh: Then you have Freddie Brown.
Chris: He can't stay over Cosby or Purify? Or won't I guess
Craig: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, Purify for Craig. Tom Nelson makes Cosby expendable/PS candidate.
Josh: They could justify that Chatman, when healthy, is the better receiver on offense. And to be honest, I would agree. However, the durability issue makes it impossible for me to keep.
Craig: I don't see Chatman outplaying Purify at this point. Not even close. Although, when healthy, yeah. I suppose.
Chris: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, Chatman
Josh: Wow. We're totally split on this one. I predict Cosby, only because of his punt return potential. Chris has Chatman, Craig has Purify and Jake just hates Chatman.
Chris: I have Chatman because he's Marvin's boy and has experience with the team.
Jake: I don't like any of the options at number six.
Josh: I honestly can see that, Chris.
Craig: I'd like to see Cosby stick, I really would. Maybe they practice squad Purify again if Chatman doesn't stick.
Jake: He hasn't played or practiced. No way Chatman makes it
Chris: Yeah, that's true too. If not Chatman, Cosby. But Purify is damn physical for his size.
Jake: Cosby has some good special teams utility, but I don't think he has enough to stick. Bernard Scott looked great in that kick return.
Craig: I just hate to see them maybe lose Purify. The guy's a beast physically.
Chris: That's true. More so than Cosby
Josh: So it's between Cosby and Purify. Let's take a vote.
Chris: I'm changing my vote again
Craig: He made Roy Williams look like a fool in the Oklahoma.
Chris: Damn persuasive up in here
Josh: That was embarrassing as hell for Roy.
Craig: That said, first punt return for touchdown in, what, five years?
Josh: Who was also trying to cop out of the drills with Coles.
Jake: Purify is my vote.
Chris: I voted for Cosby for punt return. But the Scott point made perfect sense.
Craig: I'm so glad I'm not making this decision for the team! Don't forget Tom Nelson's 44-yard return last week either.
Josh: Alright, Purify?
Craig: The more they're going to want to use Scott in the offense the less they're going to use him in the return game, remember.
Josh: Good point, Craig.
Chris: I hate that concept
Josh: I think Scott would be kickoff return anyway, not punt return.
Jake: If they keep four running backs, Scott won't get much playing time. We think they keep 4 RB, so Scott can return kicks and play on some third downs.
Josh: Dorsey could too.
Craig: Ah! Okay. Ocho. Coles. Henry. Caldwell. Simpson. Cosby. That's my final answer.
Josh: But the issue is punt return; Scott hasn't returned a punt yet. Cosby, in the preseason, returned seven punts and Nelson got six.
Craig: Purify to the practice squad for the second year running.
Chris: I’m back on Cosby again
Josh: OK, time for final vote.
Chris: Cosby
Craig: Cosby
Jake: I think Cosby will make it. Sorry. I want Purify.
Josh: I can see why. You're right. He is a beast.
Craig: I'd be okay with Cosby, really. We have enough talent on offense that I think the 6th WR has to contribute in other ways anyway, so Cosby is the better call the more I think about it.
Josh: I just think that Cosby brings more immediate contributions. Purify isn't a returner and I highly doubt he gets any playing time with Chad, Coles, Henry and Caldwell in front.

Josh: In 2006 and 2008, the Bengals took nine offensive linemen. In 2007, they kept eight. We can assume they're keeping Andre Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Nate Livings, Anthony Collins, Andre Smith, Jonathan Luigs and Scott Kooistra. So we're left with one spot left.
Jake: Jason Shirley
Josh: OK, there's two thoughts here. We could go with eight and be done.
Craig: Well, if we do keep nine including Shirley or someone else, which position is left to suffer?
Josh: The issue with a ninth is that we could be cutting into the defensive roster -- which might not be a bad idea because they seem like the stronger of the two units.
Chris: Or keep eight and keep Purify. But yeah, I see the point about not hurting the defense as bad
Josh: And I disagree with Shirley. While he's literally throwing guys when blocking, I just don't think he's ready to make the roster. He's the typical Marvin Lewis project guy. I think he's still eligible for the practice squad. I think Dennis Roland has a better shot.
Chris: "literally throwing guys when blocking" Is a hard talent to ignore, even if he is a little raw.
Craig: Shirley should be eligible for the practice squad, but I'd bet good money that we'd lose him in the process, especially with him being such a mauler at guard.
Josh: I agree, Chris. That's why I think they'll hope he clears waivers. It wasn't so long ago that Marvin Lewis said flatly on Hard Knocks that Shirley's last chance to make the squad at all was to convert to the offense. In reality, the question is do you want to keep a fourth guard, or a fourth tackle.
Craig: Fourth tackle, for my money. How are we looking at Andre Smith in this equation? Are we actually talking about a fifth tackle?
Josh: That's why I think Roland's the better choice right now. Think of it this way. If Smith doesn't return soon, and god forbid, Whitworth or Collins goes down, we're out of tackles.
Chris: I need a beer
Josh: Sure, Kooistra can play the position, but he's been working mostly guard too.
Craig: I agree with you, Josh. Roland is the smart choice here.
Josh: For now at least. If Shirley passes waivers and I believe he will, and then he's signed to the practice squad, that would be the best scenario for him.
Craig: I'm cool with that. I might be overestimating, but I do worry that he won't clear waivers.
Josh: We also have Evan Mathis and Andrew Crummey. Think those two have a shot?
Craig: I'd say Mathis more than Crummey.
Josh: Alright, full vote. Between Roland and Shirley.
Chris: Roland
Craig: 2. Reluctantly.
Jake: Humph. Roland, I guess. I'd like Shirley.
Josh: I think we all would, to be honest.
Chris: Yep. Tackle will win out, however
Josh: Alright. The offense is set. SWEET!

Craig: Sidebar: Any kind of wishing we could keep Swank?
Josh: He proved that franchising Graham was kind of redonkulous. I love that word.
Jake: Swank hasn't been that impressive. But he made what Josh said true
Craig: Makes me think of Koothrapali in Big Bang Theory.

Josh: Now, historically, the Bengals have taken eight defensive linemen. Mostly it's four defensive ends and four defensive tackles. Here's what I think are locks; Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko. That leaves two guys.
Craig: Rucker should be in the equation probably.
Josh: Well, you got Fanene and Rucker at defensive end. Harrington too.
Craig: Right, Fanene and Harrington the tight end.
Josh: Then you have Clinton McDonald, Langston Moore and Vernell Jenkins at DT.
Chris: I'm voting Jenkins. And you all already know that
Josh: A little UK love?
Jake: Moore's gotta make it.
Craig: Moore is a good pick too.
Chris: Absolutely
Craig: So we really need one end and one tackle. Rucker and Moore?
Josh: I think Moore is the more likely pick. Does that leave McDonald on the practice squad? As for Rucker, I think Fanene beats him out. And the only reason I say that is Rucker's durability. He has none.
Chris: True
Craig: Yeah, you're right. For some reason I always forget about Fanene.
Jake: Might be hard to deny Rucker a spot though, he has quite a bit of talent and has played well.
Craig: He's one of those guys that's just solid and makes plays.
Josh: In three seasons, Rucker has only played 16 games.
Chris: Sterling
Craig: Ouch.
Josh: I like Rucker too. I mean, the dude will catch on with easily another team.
Chris: And be healthy
Craig: And be a perennial All-Pro and eventual HoF inductee.
Chris: You got it
Josh: Cincinnati karma.
Jake: Fanene has been pretty solid though when he gets playing time.
Craig: I like Fanene for his DE/DT versatility. Similar to Bryan Robinson in that regard.
Josh: Fanene has only missed two games in the past two seasons, though he hasn't been flashy. I like his versatility too.
Craig: I think this team is at the point where they need to (at least on the defensive side of the ball) put guys in place who make plays, not guys who might make plays. This defensive unit is CLOSE.
So for his solid play and durability/versatility, my vote goes to Fanene I think.
Josh: I agree. And if Rucker stays healthy, he fits that bill. But you have to depend on the guy too.
Craig: Right. That was my primary point.
Josh: On the other hand, Harrington has two sacks this preseason.
Craig: Yeah. Crap.
Chris: That's big
Josh: Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Craig: What string was he playing against?
Josh: Not much against the first team. Not really sure if he had many first half snaps.
Craig: So that's in the equation too, kind of, sorta.
Josh: Agreed. So the question between Rucker and Fanene is health. Harrington, if he passes waivers, can be ~~the team's starting tight end and~~ join the practice squad.
Craig: So Rucker=out. Another third round pick down the tubes (3rd?). Guys? Fanene or Harrington? All considered I think it has to be Fanene.
Josh : I'm picking Fanene, only because of the question about Rucker's health.
Chris: Didn't we establish Mike Brown likes draft picks?
Craig: lol @ the TE comment. That'll never get old.
Josh: I've cried every night in my sleep after that.
Craig: So we agree that WE want Fanene. Thoughts on what will actually happen?
Josh: I actually think it'll be Fanene. He's on his second contract right now anyway. So you know the team likes him, and Jake is right, Fanene is solid.
Craig: I'm good with that, Josh.
Jake: I think Fanene will stick.
Josh : So we went with Langston Moore and Jonathan Fanene.

Josh: In respect to linebackers, the Bengals took eight in 2006, seven in 2007, and six in 2008. The locks, I think, are Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Rey Maualuga, Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson.
Craig: Yep.
Josh: I really liked Hodge during preseason and he's a special teams contributor. I think he backs up Dhani.
Jake: Hodge absolutely sticks. Simmons will be sure of it.
Craig: Right.
Chris: That's six.
Craig: So. Maxwell? In or out?
Jake: I dunno about Maxwell.
Josh: I think Blackstock makes it, if for any reason, he can play defensive end also.
Craig: I was going to say I think Blackstock sticks. His career-ending hit on Utecht has to count for something other than wasting another of my Bengals jerseys.
Josh: Then you have Dan Stuka.
Chris: I vote for him on name alone. That's just a badass name
Craig: We need to bring back Bjork.
Jake: Reminds me too much of Ditka
Josh: There's another issue we need to consider. Do we just keep six backers and 10 in the secondary? Or seven backers and 9 in the secondary.
Craig: Got to be 7 and 9, I think.
Chris: "What's your name, punk?" "Dan STUKA." "Oh, damn. Don't mess w/that guy." "Damn right.
Chris: I'm sorry
Josh: It's a sweet football name. Then the seventh linebacker has to be Blackstock.
Craig: Absolutely. Blackstock at #7 backer.
Chris: Yes, Blackstock
Josh: Alright, we'll go with Blackstock.

Craig: So we're on to the secondary then?
Josh : Now this will be the toughest one of the night -- and the last.
Craig: Josh, locks?
Chris: (whispers) Dan Stuka will be watching us. Remember that.
Josh: I got Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Chinedum Ndukwe and Roy Williams. Now, I think Tom Nelson is a close lock -- like most everyone else, I loved his play.
Craig: Hall, Joseph, Jones, Crocker, Ndukwe, Williams, Nelson would be my locks. Personally.
Josh: I agree, so Nelson makes the team?
Chris: Who's that kid that made that huge sack against the Pats?
Craig: I don't see how he can't make the team. The guy's a beast.
Josh: Chris likes Nelson too.
Chris: Yeah, him
Craig: Nelson brings versatility as I think he could be a nickel corner also.
Chris: He's certainly got the speed for nickel
Josh: I question David Jones. Is the talent in the secondary deep enough? Is Jones worth keeping, though he didn't make any preseason games?
Craig: It depends on how confident they are with either trying Nelson there or Geoff Pope.
Josh: No thanks on Pope.
Craig: Just sayin'.
Josh: Kyries Hebert is another I like that doesn't much notice, because his strength is his special teams play.
Craig: I'm glad Fletcher is already gone so we don't have to factor him in.
Josh: No doubt
Craig: Yeah, Hebert's got to stay. Led in teams tackles last year, didn't he?
Josh: Yea. We're up to seven. What about Morgan Trent? We need to start looking at cornerbacks. We've listed five safeties already.
Craig: Okay. I think Trent sticks.
Josh: Trent makes the team. You agree?
Chris: Absolutely. Haven't seen much, but what I've read.
Josh : He hasn't been bad.
Craig: So one more. Lynch? That's another safety so maybe Lynch goes.
Josh: I don't know. This is where I think David Jones squeezes in.
Craig: Yeah, more than likely.
Josh: You could also go Pope or Rico Murray.
Craig: Jones improved over last season. No. Jones is better than either of them. Practice squad Pope again, he may be ready next year.
Josh: Jones was placed on the depth chart as the third CB at the start of training camp. Do we reluctantly agree with Jones, or do you guys think we should go with six safeties and keep Lynch?
Craig: That probably depends on Nelson's cover skills.
Chris: Three cornerbacks?
Craig: I wouldn't mind keeping Lynch around, but we definitely need another corner.
Josh: What about Marvin White. We're completely excluding him.
Craig: I'm getting a headache.
Josh: We could swap out Hebert for White.
Craig: Crap, I didn't even realize that White wasn't on our list. I think that says enough about him, though. I think White goes.
Josh: Axe White?
Craig: How do you keep him over your number one special teams guy?
Josh: I'm just not sure where he'd fit in. It would be a numbers game. On the other hand, would the Bengals elect to keep White over Nelson?
Craig: A couple of years ago our special teams squad was decimated and it took over a year to shore it back up. I don't want to see that happen again.
Chris: Better not
Craig: White/Nelson. That's actually probably the best battle happening right now on defense.
Josh: Or, we could dump a running back for another guy in the secondary.
Craig: Dump Dorsey if we want to go that route.
Josh: Dump the oft-injured Dorsey for White. Now we're getting interesting.
Craig: For me? No question. None at all.
Chris: See ya
Craig: What will Mike Brown do, though?
Josh: Exactly.
Chris: Suck. That's what he'll do
Josh: I can see that.
Craig: Son of a gun. I'm stressing about this like we have any say in the matter right now, rubbing my temples and such.
Josh: LOL. We're on the last roster spot. Here's something else to consider. Dating back to 2006, the Bengals have always taken ten or more defensive backs.
Chris: STUKA. Sorry
Craig: So we're short unless we knock off Dorsey, which throws us back into the Dorsey/Leonard discussion. I really wish he hadn't have blocked/returned that punt.
Josh: In regards to Dorsey, I'm not sure if we should use a spot on him for blocking a punt. While it's nice, it's never a certainty. And with Dorsey's skillset, we have Scott.
Craig: I know that. You know that. Bratkowski talked on this week's Hard Knocks about him blocking the field goal two years ago.
Josh: Yea, it just goes to show how fickle the coaches are on the competition.
Craig: Right. I mean, I like a punt block and touchdown as much as the next guy, but...
Josh: On another note, think about it this time last year. You know who we were discussing? Perry, Watson, Dorsey. So you're starting to favor cutting Dorsey for a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Wow. What a difference a year makes. Yes. Yes, I am. Dorsey goes, White stays for me.
Chris: I don't see them dumping a four-year player for a 10th defensive back. Just sayin'
Josh: I think it's a valid point. Do you get rid of Dorsey, who played redonkulous this preseason, for sheer numbers in the secondary? Instead of White, we could keep Lynch. Or we could keep Pope However, here's another point. How much playing time do we really expect Dorsey to get with Cedric, Scott and Leonard in front of him.
Chris: What if Cedric goes back to sucking?
Craig: Dorsey is just going to get hurt. Again.
Chris: Maybe more than it would first seem.
Craig: Chris, that's when Scott takes over.
Chris: Every down?
Craig: Leonard will share. I'm not worried about Cedric, though.
Chris: I am.
Josh: Honestly, if Benson goes down, then I think Leonard becomes the feature back and then Dorsey would be the team's third-down back. And if Benson sucks, then Palmer throws for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. No problem.
Chris: Over Scott? Leonard.
Josh: I think Leonard has the build and style to be a feature back. Scott needs to be that change of pace guy. I would be surprised if he ever gets 15 carries this year.
Craig: LT, Josh?
Josh: You're comparing Scott to LT?
Craig: No. Just sayin'.
Chris: He's got mad skill
Josh: Hey, who knows what happens. I just don't think takes over a feature back role this year.
Craig: Okay. Does DeDe stay or go?
Chris: Stay.

Josh: Here's where we are. We have 52 players set now. We have only 9 defensive backs. The Bengals have historically taken 10 or more. We're thinking of freeing up a spot to give us a 10th, and we instinctively went right to DeDe.
Jake: I have company.
Craig: Nice.
Chris: Pics?
Josh: iPhone?

Josh: We're so close! One more... we... can... do... it... We just need to make a decision. Do we take someone out in favor of a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Okay. DeDe is long past practice squad-eligible, right? Not that it would matter, someone would snatch him up like the Colts did anyway.
Josh: You guys know that the Bengals coaches are right now talking about this.
Chris: I'm keeping Dorsey.

Carson Palmer is ready to play against the Broncos; clearly the backup quarterback belongs to J.T. O'Sullivan

Kirkendall — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 04:29:31 -0000

More photos » by David Kohl - AP

3 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals quarterback Carson Palmer sits on the bench during a preseason NFL football game against the Indianapolis Colts, Thursday, Sept. 3, 2009, in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/David Kohl)

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If there's any question regarding Carson Palmer playing against the Denver Broncos when the regular season kicks off, he says he's playing. Some buzz was generated when Palmer threw, while testing his ankle during pregame warmups against the Indianapolis Colts. The hope was that Palmer would he'd get some work in due to general fears that he might be a little rusty after potentially not playing in game conditions for a month. However, it's likely that Palmer used the pregame warmup to get acclimated to his routine for next weekend's regular season kickoff. Oh, you big tease.

Is Palmer ready? He compares it to 2006, when he played two preseason games.

"I'm much more experienced. I'm more of a veteran. I'm more comfortable in our offense and more comfortable with the guys around me," Palmer said in comparing '06 to '09. I missed quite a bit of the offseason just because I was rehabbing. I feel prepared. I feel ready. I have to keep watching film, keep figuring Denver out and just get better and healthier."

Even though Palmer's time was limited, there was a general satisfaction how J.T. O'Sullivan played in his stead. Comparing O'Sullivan's performance to Ryan Fitzpatrick's during the 2008 season, you see that O'Sullivan's mainstream numbers are stronger. What should also be noted is that O'Sullivan got two additional games worth of work with the first team offense against the first team defense.

J.T. O'Sullivan (2009)

Comp	Att	Comp %	Yards	TD	INT	Sack	Rating
28	39	71.8	358	3	0	7	125.8

Ryan Fitzpatrick (2008)

Comp	Att	Comp %	Yards	TD	INT	Sack	Rating
24	35	68.6	218	2	0	3	104.2

Hopefully that doesn't matter. Because once the God of the Golden Arms returns, people will fear the Bengals more than some stupid Mayan calendar. If we did learn something else this preseason, it's that while O'Sullivan was challenged by a hard charging Jordan Palmer early in Training Camp; when he needed to come through the most, he did, easily claiming the backup quarterback position.

Hard Knocks IV: Cutdown day looms

Kirkendall — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:18:58 -0000

The upcoming cutdown day took front and center with several players. Antonio Chatman, Chris Pressley, DeDe Dorsey and Brian Leonard had dinner, talking about it. Andrew Whitworth and his wife Melissa sat on the couch talking about losing friends. The battle between Brian Leonard, DeDe Dorsey and Bernard Scott at running back. The battle of Corey Lynch and Tom Nelson, who took a carriage ride downtown, at safety. Then there's Chris Pressley and Fui Vakapuna at fullback; which with this episode made you think that the Bengals are definitely going with two fullbacks. You get the feeling that Chris Pressley will make the team, based on the impression that the coach's favor his physical play. During one practice, Pressley had to have his busted facemask replaced. We still haven't gotten to the part where Muhammad Ali joined the Bengals during Training Camp in Georgetown College.

Funny moments.

Pulling into the garage underneath Paul Brown stadium, Marvin Lewis couldn't pull in because the gate was broken; or at least not responding to the proxy card. So he jumped the curb and got in, laughing his unique laugh.
Chad Ochocinco chatted with his girlfriend, who said that Chad faked being in a wheelchair to get a seat next to her. He then faked that he needed to use her cell phone, and put his number in it. Brilliant!
Jordan Palmer promoted his site, runpee.com, which points out times during a movie in which you can go to the bathroom.

Good Moments

Bobbie Williams helped Jason Shirley on the sidelines during practice, who was absolutely obliterating guys against the St. Louis Rams.
Mike Zimmer told Tank Johnson, who called Bill Walsh Donnie, that the only thing that could bring Johnson down is himself.
The team's clubhouse assistant, James Brown, was profiled momentarily. The players and coaches love him. And before each game, Brown leads them onto the field.
During the same game, Carson Palmer pulled Bernard Scott aside, telling him not to worry about the fumble. All that matters, he said, is how you respond.
He gave the same advise to Jordan, who threw an interception on a pass intended for Chris Henry.
While not really a good moment, it was actually nice to see Marvin Lewis talk to a guy that was waived from the team. In this case, he sat with defensive tackle Pernell Phillips, advising him to keep working and maybe another team will pick him up; or the Bengals could sign him to the practice squad.
Tank and Roy Williams went to the Reds game with the Los Angeles Dodgers in town, and got a chance to speak with Joe Torre.
Marvin Lewis advised the team (aka Chad Ochocinco) about Twittering.

Oh Boy moments

Do you get the feeling that when the players enter the lockerroom, that they nervously walk past Jim Lippincott, who leans against the wall waiting for the players he has to tell is getting waived?
The relationship and conversation between Katie Blackburn and Alvin Keels presents the most awkward moments of the show.
I don't hate Mike Brown as a man or anything other than an NFL owner. But when he's on the show, I just bury my head.
Replayed the game against the Rams, which ended with Augustus Parrish's disastrous attempt at blocking a guy who would eventually sack Jordan Palmer, who fumbled the ball. Game over.
The show ended with Andre Smith's signing and subsequent broken foot.

Game Rewind: How much was the Bengals offensive line to blame for the six sacks allowed against the Rams?

Kirkendall — Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:40:46 -0000

More photos » by Ed Reinke - AP

3 months ago: St. Louis Rams running back Steven Jackson (39) is tackled by Cincinnati Bengals defensive tackle Domata Peko (94) and Cincinnati Bengals linebacker Rashad Jeanty (53) in the first half of an NFL preseason football game, Thursday, Aug. 27, 2009, in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/Ed Reinke)

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Anytime you watch a football game the second time around, you notice more things; not unlike watching a movie. In a lot of ways, when you watch the game live, objectivism is thrown out for raw emotion, or the peak of wondering what the hell is going on. In truth, we only care about winning. How we get there doesn't matter. A different justification comes with losing. When we lose, we point out failures and flaws. Obviously something wrong happened. We have to explain it; blame a player, a play or a coach (and in 2006, an NFL referee). It's not a fault of ours. It's human nature. The desire for explanation of things we can't necessarily explain initially. That's just the the way it is. You're worried about the moment. When one player makes a mistake, that mistake weighs heavier on people's impressions of that player for that game. For example, recently a lot of disapproval has been thrown around about Tight End Daniel Coats. After watching the game the second time, only once did I notice a truly awful play he made. It was an attempted block on a guy that tackled Cedric Benson four yards behind the line of scrimmage. Aside from that, he made his routine blocks and caught two passes for 18 yards -- including a first down reception during the team's second touchdown drive. Was he awful? Aside from that play, he was average. However, that awful play is far more remembered because of the detailed visual of Coats on his knees, watching the guy he blocked totally destroy a running play.

I'm going to take the same approach with the Bengals offensive line. Were they truly awful? Most of you will say yes, and when we woke up Friday morning I agreed. But the Bengals offensive line was the reason the Bengals rushing offense recorded 141 yards rushing and 4.4 yards-per-rush. If the Bengals maintain that average, there's every reason to believe the rushing offense will be very good. However, it's the six sacks allowed that we'll remember. But how much was the offensive line to blame for those sacks?

We take a look during this week's game rewind.

Sack #1. The situation is first-and-ten at the Bengals 30-yard line. It was their first possession in a game that already saw an exchange of touchdowns. The Bengals lined up four wide, two receivers flanking each side of the offensive line. The Rams blitzed three, causing a problem with protection because the offense didn't have enough players to protect against the pass rush. The defensive end and defensive tackle were neutralized by Andrew Whitworth and Nate Livings and Cedric Benson took out the blitzing outside linebacker. As a result, #37-Butler sprinted through the line unblocked. Was it the play of the offensive line that caused the sack? Or was it a combination of a good defensive call against a bad protection scheme?

Sack #2. The situation is first-and-ten at the Cincinnati 44-yard line with 2:46 left in the first quarter. The Bengals lined up off-set I formation, strong side to the right against a base 4-3 Rams defense. At the snap, the defense brought six -- which includes an outside and middle linebacker blitzing. Kyle Cook picked up the blitzing middle linebacker, while Bobbie Williams, Anthony Collins and Daniel Coats protected the right side of the line. Andrew Whitworth kicked out the defensive end and Nate Livings picked up the defensive tackle. In other words, the Bengals offensive line picked up everyone. Except for one -- #51-Witherspoon, who stunted around the blitzing #55-Laurinaitis finding a gap on the offensive line between Livings and Whitworth. J.T. O'Sullivan sidestepped #51-Witherspoon's attempted sack and moved up in the pocket. A quick observation here. If O'Sullivan stops at this point, he has time to look downfield and get rid of the ball. However, hindsight is 20/20 (would you do better?). O'Sullivan keeps his head down, tries to look for a running lane and finds #58-Vobora instead.

Through the first two sacks, you have to note that the Rams found gaps by stunting and overloading one side during a blitz. Is this an example of giving the offensive line a pass, or an excuse? One could argue that it is. However, the fact is the Bengals offense, not just the offensive line but the coaches and play-calling included, didn't adjust to the blitzes. Furthermore, few observations are made at the line of scrimmage that changes the play into a quick pass or the quarterback hitting hot reads. Everyone is at fault, including the offensive line -- but NOT only the offensive line.

Sack #3. Now, I'm not excusing the offensive line either. With 12:53 left in the third quarter, J.T. O'Sullivan sits in shotgun on third-and-eight at the Cincinnati 41-yard line. At the snap, Kyle Cook is completely overpowered, pushed back into the quarterback. O'Sullivan has to move out of the way, shifting to the left, finding #43-Dahl. However, I'm not so sure that if Cook actually blocked his man and held his ground, that O'Sullivan wouldn't have been sacked anyway. Like several situations in the game, the Bengals lined up with four wide receivers on third down. The Rams, in response to the formation, bring anywhere from six to seven pass rushers. On this sack, the Bengals had trips to the right and a lone wide receiver on the left. The Rams brought four guys on the right, where only two Cincinnati blockers stood their ground.

Sack #4. Sometimes you can defer blame from the offensive line to the quarterback, or just great defensive play. With 3:36 left in the third quarter, the Bengals have third-and-six at the Cincinnati 37-yard line. The Rams brought five, all on the right side of the Bengals line -- the right defensive end went into zone coverage in the flats and the weakside outside linebacker covered the middle. Even though the Rams had the numbers -- more rushers than the Bengals had blockers -- the protection held. Jordan Palmer scanned the field, scanned some more, decided that he should take longer to look and was eventually sacked by #94-Adeyanju. I counted over five seconds before the pass rush got to Palmer. Sometimes you have to give credit to the defense, and label plays like this as a coverage sack.

Sack #5. And we'll call it a coverage sack here. With 12:44 left in the fourth quarter, the Bengals have first-and-20 at the Cincinnati five-yard line. Palmer drops back, waits, watches, drinks tea, calls his girlfriend, waves to his older brother and then fumbles when #98 Ah You hits him from the front. Center Jonathan Luigs recovers the fumble and events go into motion several minutes later that would see Cincinnati make an impressive drive down the field -- going 96 yards in three plays for a touchdown to close the deficit to three.

Sack #6. Then there's the obvious. If you wanted evidence that ~~Randy Jackson~~ Augustus Parrish was only house-sitting for Andre Smiths' arrival with no possible shot at making the squad, here's the play. With seconds before the Two Minute Warning, Jordan Palmer rushes the offense to the line to get one more play off before the timeout after a five-yard gain by James Johnson. The Bengals are down by three points, with plenty of time left on the 29-yard line. There's no reason to rush to the line. When the ball was snapped, the game was over. Defensive end #92-Moore sprinted by Parrish, who looked very slow, leaving no doubt that he was giving up the game's sixth sack. It was one of those plays that you said uh-oh less than a second after the snap. The defensive end turned past Parrish and knocked the football out of Palmer's hand essentially giving the Rams the win.

The point we made earlier, that the six sacks allowed by the offensive line, was in fact, a team effort and not solely to blame on our big uglies, stands. By my count, twice the Rams called a defensive play that exposed problems on the protection scheme. Twice the quarterback held onto the football far too long because wide receivers couldn't get open; which we call coverage sacks. And twice an offensive lineman was simply beaten.

Is this the year that Geathers returns (aka, returns the investment the team made in him)? I believe Robert Geathers has all the potential to be the team's best defensive lineman. Aside from his 10.5 sacks in 2006, that potential hasn't translated into overwhelming success on the field. One observation many are making this year is that Geathers is performing; meaning he's making plays, but he's looking really good on plays he's not technically involved in (aka, not making the tackle). Against the Rams, he was everywhere. On the first play of the game, Geathers contained the edge, ran up-field and took out Steven Jackson for a one-yard loss. One first and ten with 12:01 left in the first quarter, Geathers (at LDE) slanted to the right, holding up the offensive guard, hitting Jackson for another one-yard loss. Along with a quarterback hit which came within a millisecond from being a sack, Geathers finished the game with four tackles and was around the football on nearly every run between the tackles. He's by far the team's best overall defensive end, strong against the run and pass.

Don't write off Jeanty just yet. Even though Rey Maualuga is getting all of the publicity (and being totally bad ass in the process), Rashad Jeanty isn't just keeping the position warm for the rookie. In fact, if it wasn't for Maualuga, there would be no competition. Jeanty starts. On first-and-ten at the Cincinnati 20-yard line (the play after the botched snap between Kyle Cook and O'Sullivan), Jeanty found the point of attack behind the left guard, took out the fullback and brought down Gado for a no-gain. Even though he only made three tackles for the game (his playing time reduced because of Maualuga), Jeanty is far superior than his competition on pass coverage. He knocked away one pass to a tight end, and sat in the hip pocket of a wide receiver. The receiver made the catch anyway only because Kyle Boller made a nice throw to #14-Burton, who extended out to make the catch. But a linebacker should never be in the hip pocket of a wide receiver.

A quick look at the newest veteran safety. Roy Williams might be a liability against the deep pass, but the boy can hit. On second-and-ten with :56 left in the first, #25-Pittman ran off the left edge. Chinedum Ndukwe flew into the running back first, wrapping his legs. Williams came in from behind and destroyed Pittman, causing the crowd to express themselves as only crowds do when seeing a big hit.

Then again, Williams made noticeable mistakes. On third-and-eight at the Bengals 44-yard line with 10:20 left in the first, Boller hit #89-Curry, running a crossing pattern from right to left. With Williams trailing a good 3-4 yards behind the receiver, the safety still had a shot to make the tackle and force the punt. Instead, Williams overshot the receiver, who cut up-field and picked up the first down.

Sometimes when the offense makes a good play, the defense plays disastrously. On the Rams' long touchdown drive, when #38-Gado ran up the middle for a 16-yard touchdown, Roy Williams took a bad angle and couldn't cut off Gado from reaching the end-zone. This isn't totally Williams' fault however. Rey Maualuga overshot the point of attack, Domata Peko (who is the team's defensive lineman that gets the most double teams) couldn't break the block (but did get an arm on him), Morgan Trent slid off the running back like Gado was covered in butter, and Ndukwe was blocked downfield by a wide receiver. It looked too easy.

If it wasn't for Tank Johnson, then it would be for Pat Sims. I think Tank Johnson, for the most part, has contributed. Has he made plays that stand out? No. That's typically not what good defensive tackles do. Unless your name is Pat Sims. With 2:59 left in the first half, the Rams drove to the Bengals 40-yard line. If the Rams pick up the first down on third-and-one, there's a high likelihood they kill the clock and convert a field goal, giving them a ten-point lead heading into Half Time. Strong with the force, Pat Sims fired off the line of scrimmage just as the ball is snapped. It was almost simultaneous -- like if the count was on two, Sims would have been called off-sides (however, when we make Star Wars references, it makes our day even brighter). The center had to block down on Sims because the left guard pulled to the right. Sims, already in the backfield when the center whiffed on the block, dropped Pittman for a four-yard loss, and five yards from the first down. Rams punt. Sims, for the second week in a row, makes a case that he, not Tank Johnson, should start for the 2009 Cincinnati Bengals.

Flags. Even though the Bengals committed eight penalties for 50 yards lost, the starting offensive line was responsible for only one. And it was ticky-tac at best. With 2:13 left in the first quarter, the Bengals lined up second-and-14 at their own 40-yard line. Cedric Benson gets the handoff and picks up 16 yards up the middle. The blocking itself was phenomenal. Everyone had their guy and buried them. Even Kyle Cook, who was called for offensive holding. In truth, this was one of those penalties that color commentators can't quite justify but refuse to make comments on questionable calls, simply saying, "but they'll call it every time." Cook fired out of his stance and took on the middle linebacker. As the two met, the linebacker shifted to his left with Cook's arm wrapping around the linebacker's chest. It didn't appear that Cook's phantom hold caused any noticeable advantage against the linebacker's progress and Cook removed his arm as quickly as it started wrapping around him. However, from the way it looked, the referees call this every time.

Other observations re-watching the Bengals game against the Rams.

Abdul Hodge has played excellent when given playing time. He's big and quickly reads against the rush. There's no doubt in my mind he's the team's backup middle linebacker and overall special teams guy.
The Bengals were far better tackling than they were against the Patriots. Everyone improved -- except for Michael Johnson, whose missed tackles that led to first downs.
Jonathan Fanene had a really good game, overpowering the left tackle nearly sacking the quarterback. On the Rams' first possession in the second half, Fanene held his ground against a Tight End. With the point of attack coming right at Fanene, he easily discarded the Tight End and dropped Darby.
On second-and-13 with 12:58 left in the second quarter, Cedric Benson picked up 12 yards. Daniel Coats, motioning to the right and becoming Benson's lead blocker, made the critical block that freed Benson up for the big gain.
Jeremi Johnson got the handoff on the next play, falling forward for three yards, converting on third-and-one. More of that please.
J.P. Foschi made several good run blocks.
I lost count how many times running back Bernard Scott made tacklers miss. Scott was the team's leading rusher, picking up 54 yards on eight carries, including a 22-yard run on third-and-21, forcing two missed tackles and a burst of speed that will never cease to be impressive.
On Brian Leonard's one-yard touchdown run, the Bengals lined up BIG, moving Andrew Whitworth to tight end on the right and Scott Kooistra at right tackle. Both buried their guys. Daniel Coats took out James Laurinaitis and Jeremi Johnson took out #37-Butler, who was sprinting up-field for the tackle.
On Jordan Palmer's interception, Chris Henry was running a seam down the right sidelines. Palmer just underthrew the pass and #36-Butler, trailing Henry by a step, made the lone interception in the game.

Cincinnati Bengals Links and Notes: Monday 8/24

jsl413 — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 13:31:11 -0000

More photos » by Al Behrman - AP

While his brother continues to rock a golden arm, and gimpy ankle (get well soon!), Jordan Palmer is developing a goldmine outside of football. Hopefully Jordan has a lot of time this season to develop his business and continue to not play football for the Bengals (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

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This was a pretty uneventful weekend for the Bengals. Marlon Lucky and David Richmond were waived. Carson Palmer continues to rehabilitate his sprained left ankle, missing practice on Saturday and doing some light tossing on a side field on Sunday. Marvin Lewis said that if it was the regular season, Carson would have played last Thursday against the Patriots.

This morning, ESPN insider noted that the rival Baltimore Ravens could employ the 4-3 more frequently this year due to the departure of Bart Scott. Haloi Ngata and Kelly Gregg side-by-side will occupy at least all 3 interior linemen, leaving the OTs, TE and/or HB to deal with a combination of Trevor Pryce, Terrel Suggs, and whatever linebacker(s) happen to be blitzing on that particular down. Watch for Paul Alexander headaches.

Other Bengals news from around the net this weekend:

As we've all heard by now, Alvin Keels was in Cincinnati all weekend and nothing good happened. The Enquirer's Joe Reedy was the first to report that no progress was made after a 4 hour meeting on Sunday. Keels later tweeted on the topic, as noted by Kirkendall last night. I don't know if this situation could get any more frustrating for Bengals fans. There are just so many people to blame!
Meanwhile, Anthony Collins has been admirable filling in for Smith, unproven rookie, and the local media has taken notice. Sam Blackburn for the Zanesville Times Reporter thinks Collins is doing an adequate job protecting Palmer. Carson is currently out with a sprained ankle. Is Collins the answer?
Our buddy John Thornton tweeted that Jeremi Johnson is "super talented but let his weight slip. Will Bengals keep him?" Good question John. We're carrying 3 serviceable fullbacks. Who should make the team?
Spinmaster Geoff Hobson optimistically writes that the success of the Bengals defense this year rests on the shoulders of now-veteran cornerbacks Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall. Paraphrasing Hobson, who paraphrased Mike Zimmer: Domata Peko is awesome, Rey Maualuga performed well when called upon to Blitz, and Chris Crocker and Roy Williams are good influences on the secondary. The defense will be playing with a chip on its collective shoulder this year, hopefully resulting in further improvements.

"I think guys want to prove to people wrong it's a fluke they finished 12th in the league (in defense)," [Jonathan Joseph] said. "I think the guys have that in their head."

In other injury news, Joe Reedy and random fantasy spots website report that Jonathan Luigs (undisclosed) and Antwan Odom (achilles strain) missed practice today.
Joe Kay of the Associated Press reported that Jordan Palmer is helping NFL players develop iPhone apps. Palmer's business is called Rock Software Inc., and he's focusing on developing another new way for fans to access their favorite athletes. The applications will essentially be portals to content provided by the player, such as Twitter feeds, or in Chad Ochocinco's (and Jerome Simpson and Andre Caldwell if they so please) case, ustream video feeds.

"I'm a big advocate of the iPhone," Jordan Palmer said. "I'm all about it. I'm always reading about it and pushing its capabilities and seeing what's coming out next. We looked at the business and what's going on with the applications and the growth. The growth is through the roof.

"We found a niche, and we're trying to take it over."

Stripe Hype compares the 2009 Bengals to the 2008 Bengals through 2 preseason games. It looks like we're doing better this season, but David cautions that this can be attributed to scrubby backups being scrubby backups. I know it's preseason, but do you think we're better thsi year?
Last and perhaps least the Bengals signed Wake Forest rookie kicker Sam Swank to play while Shayne Graham nurses his groin. Swank was signed and released by Philadelphia as a CFA. As Kirkendall said yesterday, Swank is known for his big leg, which beat out several other tryouts Sunday. I personally wouldn't mind a kickoff specialist if it didn't count as a roster spot. What if he's better than Shayne Graham?

"I think kickoffs were my best asset out there," Swank said of the workout. "The stadium atmosphere was great. Everyone had a good day. You just wanted to know if your name was going to be called and mine was. ... It's a great opportunity for me. I'll definitely make the most of it and try to have some fun."

Strength in numbers; an examination of who the Bengals started the regular season since 2006

Kirkendall — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:05:45 -0000

When the preseason marches towards a welcomed conclusion, discussion and debate takes place on who the team cuts and keeps. Sometimes the topic goes into salary cap causalities; veterans that are cut, like Willie Anderson and Rudi Johnson last year. Other times, the debate talks about players that surprisingly make the roster. As jsl413 broke down, the Bengals depth is strong in some areas, weak in others. Which means the Bengals could strengthen weaken positions by increasing the depth. It's a numbers game.

You see that notably with linebackers. In 2006, Brian Simmons was nearing retirement; his production was falling. David Pollack, while great with potential, was only then starting to adjust from being a defensive end in college to an outside linebacker in the NFL. Rashad Jeanty was a rookie. Landon Johnson was arguably our best linebacker. If you look back to that season, only one linebacker remains (Jeanty) with the Bengals and as far as I can tell, three are still in the NFL (Jeanty, Johnson and Ahmad Brooks). The position didn't improve in 2007 and grew worse when it was decimated by injury. Dhani Jones, an unlikely stability force who would join the team later in the year, became the most productive middle linebacker during Marvin Lewis' tenure. By 2008, the linebackers were on pace to be the most talented group assembled, taking less into the regular season while numerically increasing their numbers at other spots, like running back, defensive tackles -- two spots with limited production. You'll obviously see that again this year, with Jones, Jeanty, Rivers, Brandon Johnson and Rey Maualuga as the depth leaders.

Running backs is another example. In 2006, and even 2007, Rudi Johnson was considered the team's feature back. No competition. Hands down. After all, he set franchise rushing records in 2004 and 2005. However, along with the offensive line's degradation, he started degrading (some will note his inadvisable weight loss regiment, losing all of his strength in 2006) until he was finally cut in 2008. More importantly, the Bengals decided to take two fullbacks because Jeremi Johnson was simply not the force he used to be and the team liked Coats' enough to make room for him. While the talent level dipped, the team decided to strengthen the depth with numbers.

Take note of this. Am I saying that the depth and position is stronger because there's more players? Obviously not. You either have talent or you don't. A combination of average talent still makes that position average. But it is a luxury that most teams have, which largely depends on play-calling philosophy, as well as projecting your opponents philosophies. If you take on more defensive backs in any given year because your passing defense is poor, it allows you additional packages. But it's also dictated by strength. You will note how once the team had Leon Hall and Johnathan Joseph, they believed the position strong enough to only take four cornerbacks in 2008, as opposed to five in 2007 and 2006. Safeties increased because a long-standing issue of giving up big plays was still unanswered. You can bank on at least six safeties this year.

After the jump, you can see which players the Bengals took after cutdown day and how many players the team took at each position.

First thing we should note are the roster cut deadlines:

DATE	EVENT
September 1st	Roster cutdown to maximum of 75 players
September 5th	Roster cutdown to maximum of 53 players

Here's a breakdown on what positions the Bengals after final cutdown heading into the regular season.

Position	2006	2007	2008
Quarterbacks	3	3	3
Running backs (including FB)	4	4 (1)	5 (2)
Wide Receivers	6	6	6
Offensive Linemen	9	8	9
Tight Ends	2	3	2
Total on Offense	24	24	25

Defensive Ends	4	5	4
Defensive Tackles	4	3	5
Linebackers	8	7	6
Cornerbacks	5	5	4
Safeties	5	6	6
Total on Defense	26	26	25

Specialists	3	3	3

After the jump, we chart which players the Bengals kept since 2006.

2006

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson
RB / FB	4	Rudi Johnson, Kenny Watson, Quincy Wilson, Jeremi Johnson (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Chris Henry, Tab Perry, Antonio Chatman, Kelley Washington
O-Line	9	Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Bobbie Williams, Willie Anderson, Andrew Whitworth, Eric Ghiaciuc, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra
TE	2	Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

DE	4	Justin Smith, Bryan Robinson, Robert Geathers, Frostee Rucker
DT	4	Sam Adams, John Thornton, Domata Peko, Shaun Smith
Linebackers	8	Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, David Pollack, Rashad Jeanty, Marcus Wilkins, Ahmad Brooks, A.J. Nicholson, Caleb Miller
Corners	5	Deltha O'Neal, Tory James, Johnathan Joseph, Keiwan Ratliff, Greg Brooks
Safeties	5	Dexter Jackson, Madieu Williams, Kevin Kaesviharn, Ethan Kilmer, Herana-Daze Jones

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

2007

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jeff Rowe
RB / FB	4	Rudi Johnson, Kenny Watson, Clinton Dawson, Jeremi Johnson (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Tab Perry, Glenn Holt, Skyler Green, Antonio Chatman
O-Line	8	Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Andrew Whitworth, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra, Eric Ghiaciuc, Alex Stepanovich
TE	3	Reggie Kelly, Daniel Coats, Nate Lawrie

DE	5	Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Bryan Robinson, Frostee Rucker, Jonathan Fanene
DT	3	Domata Peko, John Thornton, Michael Myers
Linebackers	7	Ahmad Brooks, Rashad Jeanty, Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Lemar Marshall, Andre Frazier, Anthony Schlegel
Corners	5	Deltha O'Neal, Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph, Keiwan Ratliff, David Jones
Safeties	6	Dexter Jackson, Chinedum Ndukwe, Madieu Williams, Marvin White, Herana-Daze Jones, Ethan Kilmer

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

2008

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jordan Palmer
RB / FB	5	Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, Jeremi Johnson (FB), Daniel Coats (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Glenn Holt, Antonio Chatman, Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson
O-Line	9	Stacy Andrews, Levi Jones, Eric Ghiaciuc, Bobbie Williams, Andrew Whitworth, Dan Santucci, Kyle Cook, Scott Kooistra, Anthony Collins
TE	2	Reggie Kelly, Ben Utecht

DE	4	Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker
DT	5	Domata Peko, John Thornton, Jason Shirley, Pat Sims, Michael Myers
Linebackers	6	Keith Rivers, Rashad Jeanty, Dhani Jones, Darryl Blackstock, Brandon Johnson, Corey Mays
Corners	4	Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph, Simeon Castille, David Jones
Safeties	6	Dexter Jackson, Kyries Hebert, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch, Chinedum Ndukwe, Marvin White

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis