SB Nation - Darryl Blackstock

The Steve Keim Scorecard

John Morgan — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 00:50:25 -0000

More photos » by John Froschauer - AP

Seattle Seahawks fans are unused to repeat failure. Perhaps a Cardinals suit can make them more familiar with the feeling.

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Adam Schefter reports that Steve Keim is among Seattle's ten general manager candidates. This is a quick and dirty attempt to review his performance in Arizona.

Organization: Arizona Cardinals

Position(s): Player Personnel Director (May 2008), College Scouting Director (June 2006), Regional Scout (1999)

Curious that perhaps the most defamed team in the NFC, bad from when the Lions and Rams were good, is now auditioning personnel for promotion to other teams. Thus is the fickle world of the NFL. I don't like it, and I don't like Keim's boss Rod Graves. Graves has served with Arizona since 1997, and few franchises in any sport can claim a longer period of losing, instability and apathy from their fans. But, by all means, let's break off a piece of that talent factory.

Keim scouted the east for Arizona, and, undoubtedly, the southeast specifically. Let us first look at the players we can be most confident Keim had a hand in scouting. I singled out picks made from Keim's particular scouting area, and listed the round, overall pick, name and college.

2000

1) 7 Thomas Jones RB Virginia

2) 41 Raynoch Thompson OLB Tennessee

3) 71 Darwin Walker DT Tennessee

Jones is still around but was a huge bust for Arizona. He split time with Michael Pittman, never averaged more than 3.7 yards per carry and was traded before the end of his rookie contract.

Raynoch Thompson sort of speaks for himself: Who is Raynoch Thompson? He was an undersized Vol linebacker that was out of the league by 2004. He is still only 32, meaning he was cut in his prime.

Darwin Walker played for that same undefeated Tennessee team as Thompson. He didn't play for the Cardinals, who cut him before a single start and after only one regular season game. Walker was claimed by the Eagles off waivers and became a productive five-year starter for some stout Eagles defenses.

2001

2) 54 Michael Stone DB Memphis

3) 64 Adrian Wilson DB North Carolina State

4) 98 Bill Gramatica K South Florida

4) 123 Marcus Bell DT Memphis

Stone never broke through with the Cardinals and is now out of the league.

Adrian Wilson is an unconditional success. Wilson and Keim share an alma mater. He is now considered among the best safeties in the NFL. This is exploiting a hometown connection to pick an absolute steal in the third. Too bad, I guess, that NC State is hardly a talent factory.

Kicker in the fourth. Kicker in the fourth. Kicker in the fourth.

Marcus Bell is out of the league after three seasons with Arizona and three seasons with Detroit.

2002

2) 49 Levar Fisher LB North Carolina State

Fisher is the only member of the 2002 class we can be pretty sure Keim had a significant say in drafting. Fisher was a standout at NC State, but lost his career to knee injuries. Fisher has knee problems in college, so this failure falls on Keim.

2003

1) 17 Bryant Johnson WR Penn State

1) 18 Calvin Pace DE Wake Forest

2) 54 Anquan Boldin WR Florida State

Johnson has been a disappointment since entering the league. He was surpassed by Boldin in their respective rookie seasons and is now a minor player for the Detroit Lions.

Arizona selected Pace with its next pick and he was a bust before Ken Whisenhunt switched him to outside linebacker in 2007. No credit is given Keim.

Boldin was a win for all involved, if, perhaps, a crapshoot win. Boldin was a quarterback and wide receiver at Florida State that suffered serious knee injuries in college and then ran a 4.71 forty. I respect Keim for seeing the potential in Boldin, but I do not think anyone expected Boldin to be so good. His health has never improved and he still regularly misses time because of injury.

2004

2) 33 Karlos Dansby OLB Auburn

3) 64 Darnell Dockett DT Florida State

Maybe this is Keim picking up speed and proving his potential. Dansby has been solid since being signed and still starts for Arizona. Of course, that's to be expected from a linebacker selected with the first pick of the second round.

Dockett has been a starter since his rookie season and a lynchpin on the Cardinals ever-in-flux defensive line. Over the past three seasons, he's been one of the best defensive linemen in football. He was considered a first-round talent, but also an underachiever and a major risk because of his battles with coaches, troubles with the law, and, specifically, his conviction for misdemeanor theft.

2005

1) 8 Antrel Rolle DB Miami (Florida)

3) 75 Eric Green DB Virginia Tech

3) 95 Darryl Blackstock LB Virginia

4) 111 Elton Brown G Virginia

Rolle is a corner bust since shifted to safety. He has played decent at safety, but credit for that goes to the person who made the move: Whisenhunt.

Green was an intermittent starter, mostly between injuries, that is now out of the league.

Blackstock is now out of the league. He played sparingly for Arizona before being signed by the Bengals -- another well run organization.

Brown was a seldom starter for the often very bad Cardinals offensive line that is now playing in the USFL.

2006

3) 72 Leonard Pope TE Georgia

6) 177 Jonathan Lewis DT Virginia Tech

Pope is a situational tight end and among the worst players at his position in the NFL.

Lewis participated in four games in 2006 and never again played in the NFL.

At this point, Keim was promoted to Director of College Scouting and can be debited or credited for the Cardinals entire draft class.

2007

1 5 Levi Brown OT Penn State

2 33 Alan Branch DT Michigan

3 69 Buster Davis LB Florida State

5 142 Steve Breaston WR Michigan

7 215 Ben Patrick TE Delaware

Brown is a middling power right tackle that isn't significantly better than Ray Willis. Bust.

Branch is a pretty typical Keim pick: Highly touted prospect, thought of as a top ten pick before a nasty run of belligerence and bad effort knocked him off most draft boards. Branch is three years into his professional career, still every bit the monster he was in college, and still a rotational player buried on the Cardinals depth chart.

Buster Davis was a terrible pick when made. Davis was an undersized, see: 5'9", linebacker completely unfit for Whisenhunt's preferred 3-4 alignment. He was cut before his rookie season, has since bounced around and is now out of the league.

Breaston was a return monster at Michigan State that has developed into a very good slot receiver. Keim must be credited for, first, securing a good returner in the sixth, and moreover, seeing that Breaston was turning the corner as a receiver. A big win for Keim, on a pick I was very skeptical about.

Patrick is the Cardinals starting tight end, but largely an afterthought in the team's offense. Patrick was a toolsy sleeper that's produced some, but is mostly a starter by default, and still more H-back than tight end.

2008

1) 16 Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie CB Tennessee State

2) 50 Calais Campbell DE Miami (Fla.)

3) 81 Early Doucet WR Louisiana State

4) 116 Kenny Iwebema DE Iowa

5) 149 Tim Hightower RB Richmond

6) 185 Chris Harrington LB Texas A&M

7) 225 Brandon Keith T Northern Iowa

This is the draft that made Keim a general manager candidate and his fingerprints are all over it. DRC was a tools messiah that shot up boards during the pre-draft process. He never faced top competition in college, and many, including myself, questioned his ability to cover NFL talent. Well, that question is yet unanswered. Cromartie certainly looks amazing-sometimes, but he is also regularly criticized for being out of position, burned and, well, not being able to cover NFL talent. The Cardinals, noteworthy in this case, are the second worst team in the NFL at defending #1 receivers and were 27^th in 2008. DRC is the unchallenged #1 corner in Arizona. He is only 23, and cover skills are slow to grow. Best to give this pick an "Incomplete". It's possible DRC puts it together and taps into his tremendous talent, and it's possible his flashy play hides a bad player.

Campbell was a slamdunk and is proving so in his second season. He is toolsy, growing into those tools, scheme correct and straight beastly.

I liked the Doucet pick at the time and still think he has a bright future. It's tough to measure his performance because he is buried on the Cardinals depth chart. Doucet suffered a lot of injuries in college and that might have sapped his speed.

Iwebama has proven to be a solid member of a good defensive line rotation. He was, and this will shock everyone that's read this far, a toolsy player that was knocked down boards because injury and off-field problems. His performance declined his senior season, something that hurt Campbell and Doucet's stock, too.

Hightower has proven himself a valuable receiver, but, then, who defends Tim Hightower when Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin and Steve Breaston are on the field. He has since been de-emphasized in favor of Chris Wells. Hightower is a modest success.

Harrington is now a Jaguar.

Keith is still on Arizona's roster and has played in one game this season.

It's a little too early to make much of the 2009 draft, but it further supports the basic Keim profile. In brief: His preferred scouting area is the American South East. He likes toolsy players and does not bat a lash at character concerns. Keim swings for the fences and has a high whiff rate. The 2008 draft has produced solid players, but let's be clear: The Cardinals are finishing their third decade of terrible football. They made the Super Bowl last season, but were only 9-7 in the regular season. The team changed when it signed Ken Whisenhunt, and its recent success has been built off smart leadership, a weak division, years and years of early round picks, and Kurt Warner. Warner has recovered from a mid-career funk to make a case for the Hall of Fame. That's mighty lucky. Warner joined the Cardinals in 2005 and I do not see how Keim could be credited with his signing.

Maybe he interviews well. Maybe his most recent drafts, his most successful drafts, speak more clearly of his own abilities and potential, but I don't like his method, I am not impressed with his results and I don't want to sign a person that's been an integral part of one of the worst run franchises in sports history. For every one diamond in the rough, there's acres and acres more rough. And, right or wrong, executives must be judged both by the decisions they make and the company they keep.

If you look at the Cincinnati Bengals roster, you have to ask yourself, is this team better than 2008?

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:59:11 -0000

Relatively surprised by the lack of overall reaction from other fan sites, I had hoped for an idea of what others thought about the team's 53-man roster. Maybe some expected the look we received Saturday afternoon, thus electing to play off the analysis. Others could be sitting by, waiting for the practice squad announcement, as well as any changes after the Bengals make claims on the waiver wire; as well as possibly signing veterans; not that the practice squad has anything to do with the 53-man roster the Bengals will have heading into the regular season. And then maybe some are simply too disgusted to logically differentiate how the Bengals look this year, compared to last year, that led to a 4-11-1 season.

I've often chalked up last year as a season in which the Karma gods said, "it's your turn" to have a bunch of things happen that you won't recover from -- such as losing the starting quarterback, a disgruntled receiver, over 20 guys on IR (many of whom were starters), aging players where their body's are breaking down, etc. I know. It's an excuse. Excuses don't change the fact the Bengals started last year 0-8 and finished with the worst ranked offense in the league (note: we had a better record than Cleveland, so that's cool). That also doesn't mean the Karma gods won't point at us again in 2009. Perhaps it's our turn again. Carson Palmer goes down, the offensive line continues to struggle and the rushing offense becomes the biggest disappointment after high expectations. The defense has to bail us out, and historically speaking, that's not something we're capable of believing. Then again, if you believe in balance, all the went wrong last year, is righted. Palmer retains his title as the God of Golden Arms, the rebuilt offensive line comes through and Cedric Benson resumes what he did in the final three games last year -- averaging 154 yards from the line of scrimmage per game. Oh, and last year's 12th ranked defense with added personnel, makes a run at the top ten. Hey, anything could happen, right? After all, the Bengals are playing a much weaker schedule than they were in 2008. And in the division, during the past two even numbered seasons, the Baltimore Ravens struggled (6-10 in 2005, 5-11 in 2007) and the season after winning the Super Bowl in 2005, the Pittsburgh Steelers missed the playoffs. We can only hope for trends.

Will the Bengals make a run this year? That, like most things in life, is totally unpredictable. And no one predicted that quarterback Carson Palmer would miss 12 games in 2008. However, I believe that the Bengals will be far better this year than 2008. You can see that if you take a position by position look at the roster.

Quarterback - Saying that Palmer is returning assumes he won't get hurt again in 2009. And I won't say that durability issues are starting to become worrisome with our starting quarterback. The fact is, injury forced him to miss 75% of the regular season last year and this year's preseason (though mostly out of caution and additional time for rehabilitation during needless preseason games). The foundation of where the question is more answerable, points towards the team's backup quarterback. If Palmer goes down again, do you believe J.T. O'Sullivan is a better passer than Ryan Fitzpatrick? Some could point to this years preseason and answer yes. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a decent performers in some regular season games. Others will point to the same collection of arguments saying that Fitzpatrick had a good preseason in 2008 and J.T. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a disaster in some regular season games.

Running back - Let me remind you of last year. Chris Perry and Rudi Johnson had decent offseasons which fooled enough people into believing that both would mimic their incredible one-two combination in 2005. Johnson was hurt through the preseason and subsequently released. Perry never recorded more than 75 yards rushing and through six games in which he recorded 10 rushing attempts or more, he averaged three yards or more in only two games.

This is what you have to ask this year, adjusting your mindset into a comparitve analysis of where we were last year: Is Cedric Benson a better option than Chris Perry? Is Bernard Scott a better option than Kenny Watson? Is DeDe Dorsey in 2009 a better option that DeDe Dorsey in 2008? I suppose if he plays more than four games this year, that answer is yes.

Wide Receiver and Tight End . T.J. Houshmandzadeh leaves and Laveranues Coles arrives. This, to me, isn't the argument. Chad Ochocinco is far more motivated to play this year and he looks to play two combined Pro Bowl seasons in 2009. Chris Henry looks like he did his first two seasons where he recorded 15 touchdowns; along with his total life change in which you get the feeling that you can finally trust him. Even if you're asking for a comparison between two wide receivers (Houshmandzadeh and Coles) to see if the position is stronger, I believe looking at Chad and Henry's motivations clearly makes the position stronger alone.

Tight End on the other hand, is different. I do believe the position is weaker. I won't go on what we expect out of Chase Coffman, he's a rookie. We won't know until the season plays itself out. Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht going down hurts the position, because two rookies are manning the position with Daniel Coats, who benefited greatly after Kelly went on IR because he was fighting for a roster spot with Coffman as the team's third Tight End. Now Coats, having the perfect scenario of two injuries playing out to make a roster spot, is now the team's starter. This will be the second time in two seasons he became the default starter because of injury.

Offensive Line. Not only is this the most critical for the team to improve upon, it's also one of the more dramatically changed compared to the starting lineup last year against the Baltimore Ravens.

	2008	2009 *
LT	Levi Jones	Andre Whitworth
LG	Andrew Whitworth	Nate Livings
C	Eric Ghiaciuc	Kyle Cook
RG	Bobbie Williams	Bobbie Williams
RT	Stacy Andrews	Anthony Collins

* Projected

I believe while we've improved at left tackle, we've dropped at left guard; Livings is replaceable at best. I also believe it's obvious that we've improved at center, while as of right, we're kind of pushing at right tackle. However, I'm too hesitant to actually say if we're improved or worse. Apart of me wants to say we are, because of the changes in perseonnel. However, another part of me just isn't sure.

Defensive End. Oddly enough, this position holds the same personnel this year as it did last year with one exception; Michael Johnson, who did not record a single sack during the preseason. In fact, this group only recorded two sacks in four preseason games; Robert Geathers sacked Tom Brady and Frostee Rucker had a sack, forced fumble and fumble recover.

This is where I believe we improved (albeit only slightly). Antwan Odom entered last year with a bum ankle, having been carted off at the start of Training Camp when he suffered the injury. He missed four games in the season and recorded three sacks on the first year of a well-paid contract. During the offseason, he gained bulk without losing the speed. Geathers looked great in the preseason, aggressively fighting blockers against the run and pass. I believe he's the best overall defensive end on the roster. Fanene has always been solid and can play both end and tackle. The biggest chance that the Bengals took was holding onto Rucker for one more season. It's not that he lacks talent; he just lacks the ability to stay healthy.

Defensive Tackle. John Thornton went into semi-retirement after this year, Jason Shirley converted to an offensive linemen and Michael Myers wasn't re-signed. The Bengals responded by replacing all of them with Tank Johnson. The Bengals will go into the regular season (as of this post) with three defensive tackles, likely using Rucker and Fanene in rotation. Is the position improved, worse or is it a push? I think this has everything to do with Sims, who led the team with three quarterback sacks during the preseason and led all defensive linemen with 13 total tackles. It's with my belief that he, not Tank Johnson, made a convincing argument to start opposite Domata Peko. The question though, is the position stronger than it was last year? I believe it is.

Linebackers. Think of it this way. Brandon Johnson recorded 112 tackles and Rashad Jeanty recorded 97 tackles last year. They ranked second and fourth respectively on the team. And there's a shot that neither will be starters against the Denver Broncos. Keith Rivers will retake his spot as the team's weak-side linebacker and it's evident that the Bengals coaching staff wants to start Rey Maualuga over Jeanty on the strong-side. Having two guys that combined for 209 tackles just shouts to the heavens that the Bengals strongest position, in terms of depth, is linebackers. The team's starting middle linebacker, Dhani Jones, is coming off a season in which he led the team with 165 tackles.

Compared to last year, the Bengals replaced Darryl Blackstock with Maualuga and Mays with Abdul Hodge, who led the Bengals with 18 tackles (13 solo) this preseason. Furthermore, if you watched the way Rivers played this year, he already looks far superior last year. He's quicker, stronger and far more aggressive than he was last year. He has the potential to be a multiple Pro Bowler. It's my belief that the Bengals linebackers is the strongest position on defense.

Secondary. Simeon Castille, Dexter Jackson, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch and Marvin White all have something in common; all were with the Bengals in 2008 when the season started; none are with the Bengals in 2009. Replacing those five are Geoffrey Pope, Morgan Trent, Chris Crocker, Roy Williams and Tom Nelson. I believe cornerbacks is improved, mostly because Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall look better this year than last. Morgan Trent lacked a solid pedigree with the Michigan Wolverines that makes us conclude we've improved the position with Geoffrey Pope as a filler. The Bengals could even look at upgrading the position from now until the season kicks off on the waiver wire or on free agency.

As for safety, we appear better. The questions are; is Tom Nelson better than Corey Lynch and is Roy Williams better than Marvin White? Chris Crocker is obviously an improvement, considering he could be one of the team's secondary leaders.

Special Teams. Kyle Larson. Kevin Huber. Set. Serve. Match.

The roster as it is, isn't perfect. No roster in the NFL could possibly be perfect. However, that isn't the question. The debate right now is: Is the 2009 Bengals better than the 2008 Bengals?

Poll

Simple poll question. Do you believe that the Bengals roster in 2009 is better than the roster in 2008?

Yes

490 votes

No

40 votes

530 votes | Poll has closed

Presenting the Cincinnati Bengals 53-man Roster; and immediate reaction, of course

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:30:46 -0000

Now that the cuts are announced, let's make one thing clear. It's very unlikely that this is the final 53-man roster that will kickoff the season next weekend. With players being released and waived, the Bengals, like all other 31 NFL teams can pour over available players. If they decide to put a claim on a player, they will be sixth in line. If the other fives teams decide not to claim the player that the Bengals are interested in, then that player can be signed by the Bengals.

Let's take a look at the existing roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive Ends (5)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson		Frostee Rucker
	Bernard Scott
	Brian Leonard	Defensive Tackles (3)	Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Pat Sims
			Tank Johnson
Fullbacks (1)	Jeremi Johnson
		Linebackers (6)	Keith Rivers
Tight End (3)	Daniel Coats		Dhani Jones
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
	J.P. Foschi		Rey Maualuga
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receivers (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles
	Chris Henry	Cornerbacks (5)	Johnathan Joseph
	Andre Caldwell		Leon Hall
	Jerome Simpson		David Jones
	Quan Cosby		Geoffrey Pope
			Morgan Trent
Offensive Line (10)	Andrew Whitworth
	Anthony Collins	Safeties (5)	Chris Crocker
	Bobbie Williams		Roy Williams
	Nate Livings		Chinedum Ndukwe
	Kyle Cook		Tom Nelson
	Andre Smith *		Kyries Hebert
	Jonathan Luigs
	Scott Kooistra	Special (3)	Shayne Graham
	Evan Mathis		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

* Andre Smith has a roster exemption until September 14.

Immediate Reaction and Notes

We projected that the Bengals would take eight defensive linemen; we split it up four and four. While the Bengals actually did take eight, they went heavy with defensive ends, keeping oft-injured Frostee Rucker. I actually don't have a problem with this because Rucker can make plays. The only issue with him has been durability. If he has an injury-free season, he could be a surprise player. On the other hand, he missed two preseason games this year.
Can the Bengals sustain a three-man defensive tackle rotation? Rucker and Fanene both have experience playing defensive tackle also -- maybe the biggest reason for keeping Rucker.
The more we started thinking about it, we realized the Bengals would take five backs; four of whom could be running backs.
In the weeks leading up to today, I've watched J.P. Foschi and started feeling that the Bengals might keep him around. He's a decent blocker and I feel he could be a decent third-string Tight End in the NFL. However, he could also be babysitting the position if the Bengals sign someone after all of the cuts are final. In our projections, we thought it might make the team better keeping a second fullback than a third Tight End.
Save for Marvin White, all players that were waived -- 17 in all -- are eligible for the practice squad.
Somehow, I'm not surprised that Antonio Chatman went on Injured Reserved.
I thought cutting Darryl Blackstock was somewhat of a surprise. However, he wasn't replaced. The Bengals simply took six linebackers. He would have likely been the seventh.
I was very happy with Abdul Hodge making the team and felt, as we watched preseason unfold, that he was a lock for the sixth linebacker slot.
The Cincinnati Bengals tweet that David Jones and Scott Kooistra are the only players not healthy heading into the opener.

Predicting the Cincinnati Bengals' 53-man roster. A look into the minds of CincyJungle writers

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:05:53 -0000

On Friday, Josh (Kirkendall), Craig (A Pragmatic Bengals Fan), Chris (IFChris) and Jake (jsl413) sat in a room and decided to take on the task filling out the 53-man roster. While initially our intended goal was based on prediction, we also set the roster with players that we think makes the team stronger. For example, our more radical idea that might not be on the mind of the Bengals brass, is to take four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends. We thought that keeping four good running backs and two good full backs would make the team far more stronger than simply adding a third tight end that's currently on the roster; or some tight end that another team released. Even if Dorsey is the fourth running back, he's a strong contributor on special teams. So he makes the team stronger, in our minds. Anyway.

Let's get right to it. Here's our 53-man roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive End (4)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson
	Bernard Scott	Defensive Tackle (4)	Pat Sims
	Brian Leonard		Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Tank Johnson
			Langston Moore
Fullbacks (2)	Jeremi Johnson
	Fui Vakapuna	Linebackers (7)	Keith Rivers
			Dhani Jones
Tight Ends (2)	Daniel Coats		Rey Maualuga
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receiver (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles		Darryl Blackstock
	Chris Henry
	Andre Caldwell	Secondary (9)	Johnathan Joseph
	Jerome Simpson		Leon Hall
	Quan Cosby		Chris Crocker
			Chinedum Ndukwe
Offensive Line (9)	Andrew Whitworth		Roy Williams
	Bobbie Williams		Kyries Hebert
	Nate Livings		Tom Nelson
	Kyle Cook		Morgan Trent
	Anthony Collins		David Jones
	Andre Smith
	Scott Kooistra	Special Teams (3)	Shayne Graham
	Jonathan Luigs		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

There's several notable players missing. For example, after some debate, we elected to keep Jason Shirley off the roster, thinking he could be a Marvin Lewis project; which could force him on the practice squad if he clears waivers. In our minds, he's just not ready yet. Marvin White missed the cut; not because of anything he did, but we felt others were surpassing him. However, we shouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. Antonio Chatman's history is too much for a roster spot and a debate broke out between keeping Cosby and Maurice Purify. And we all loved Dan Stuka.

Stay with us all day as we analyze the team's roster cuts as they come through.

Here's a transcript of our entire conversation, or round table, that shows how we came to the conclusion on our 53-man roster.

TRANSCRIPT

Josh Kirkendall: We have 75 players and 53 spots. So by the end of the day, we'll be eliminating 22 players. I know you guys agree that quarterback is relatively easy enough. So let's get to the meat and potatoes of the topic. Running back.
Craig: Wow, diving right in.
Jake: Well running back, to me, is going to be Cedric Benson, Brian Leonard, and Bernard Scott. Just a question of if they keep four. They will want to protect Scott, and they went out and traded for Leonard, so they must see something in him
Craig: I agree with Jake, but not on the order. I think it'll be Benson, Scott, and Leonard. If they keep 4, obviously DeDe Dorsey will stick. Odd man out is James Johnson.
Jake: I honestly think we'll see Scott/Leonard split 2nd string duties. They're both pretty good.
Josh: I agree. I think Cedric and Scott are locks. And Scott and Dorsey have the same skillset. So if the team goes with three running backs, then Dorsey is the odd man out. However, if they go four, then do the Bengals only keep Jeremi Johnson at full back? Many, including the coaches, have high praise with Chris Pressley.
Jake: I don't think they'll risk just keeping Johnson at FB. If they do, they'll definitely put Pressley on the practice squad.
Josh: Last year, the Bengals took three running backs and 2 fullbacks.
Craig: As much as I like Vakapuna's ceiling, you can't let go of a guy who bent a friggin' facemask. Pressley has to stay if at all possible.
Josh: Do you think there's a chance that they keep Johnson and Vakapuna, but put Pressley on the practice squad. In terms of exposure, or notoriety, more people recognize Vakapuna's name more than Pressley's.
Craig: I think Hard Knocks may make it tough to sneak Pressley through to the PS, honestly.
Josh: Good point.

(Chris wakes from his slumber)

Chris: So is Kenny Watson done?
Jake: He was cut a while ago.
Chris: (sigh)
Josh: If the Bengals go four running backs, then who is the fullback?
Chris: Fui
Craig: I think, unfortunate as it is, that JJ is the first FB on the roster. Redeemer and all.
Jake: I think Jeremi Johnson is completely capable as long as he keeps in shape. He had a couple of excellent seasons, remember.
Josh: I agree there. JJ makes the squad as the starting fullback.
Chris: From the limited stuff I've seen, I like what Fui brings.
Josh: Now, if the Bengals take three running backs, who is your backup fullback?
Craig: At this point, I think that Pressley is the second man on the roster. The coaches in the meetings said, point blank, that Pressley is the best blocker.
Josh: You've seen on Hard Knocks how much the coaches play his tough style. Didn't Mike Brown ask what a fullback does?
Chris: Wow
Jake: They love physicality. They want to compete with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
Craig: That's why I hate Johnson being around. There's no reason to not keep Fui and Pressley around. Jake hits it on the head. Pressley gives them the best chance at pancaking the linebacking corps of the AFC North.
Chris: So who's the starter?
Craig: Johnson.
Chris: Gotcha
Josh: An interesting thought is keeping Johnson and Vakapuna and sneak Pressley through Waivers for the practice squad. How many squads are looking for a FB anyway? He might not be that well known. Though I think Craig is right about Hard Knocks documenting him so much. Damned Hard Knocks.

Josh: I had an interesting thought. What if the Bengals go with four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends? And you know that Coats and Chase make the squad. It's a weakened position anyway and I don't expect signing someone that make us instantly better. Plus the offense has never really utilized the TE position.
Jake: When was the last time they carried only 2 tight ends?
Josh: Actually, they only kept two last year and in 2006.
Craig: That's actually a good though, Josh. I like that.
Jake: Interesting. Well, given how shallow it is, I guess two isn't a bad idea. They can use Andre Smith at a TE in goalline packages.
Craig: They can toss that around, if he ever gets in shape.
Chris: I was going more for fullback for Andre
Jake: No way a 350 pounder can play anywhere but on the line of scrimmage.
Craig: Again...did you see the fat guy waddle he was rocking in last week's Hard Knocks? Dude looked terrrrrible.
Josh: The thought is that you keep the running back and fullback position strong, while keeping TE status quo. The question at this point is who will be available after cut down day that the team could sign that would make the tight ends better. And does Foschi really make your squad better than, say, Dorsey and/or Pressley?
Craig: Absolutely not would be the answer to your question, Josh.
Jake: Does Pressley have the ability to learn TE?
Josh: Like a hybrid?
Jake: Yeah, like Coats. Except better.
Josh: I will make another prediction that Foschi makes the practice squad. Of the things he's shown, he's not bad. Needs some refinement; could he could be a decent third TE in this league.
Chris: I like the two tight ends and it keeps a space in off chance Utecht ever gets healthy. Which is doubtful
Josh: Utecht is out for the year. On IR.
Craig: I doubt we see him ever again.
Chris: Me too
Josh: That could depend on Coats.
Craig: I don't mind Coats, but I don't think anyone sees him as a long term answer to anything? Pressley wouldn't be a bad option as a RB/FB hybrid. How are his hands?
Josh: To be honest, I'm not sure. He didn't have a catch this preseason.
Chris: Coffman is obviously being groomed here.
Chris: Keep in mind, Kelly might be healthy next season too
Josh: I'm not sure he'll be back either. He's UFA after this year
Craig: I look for big things from Coffman, just not this year. Not early, anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly come back as a coach in some capacity.
Josh: Yea, he's a strong lockerroom presence. The team respects him alot.
Chris: If he still wants to play, I'd sign to a one-year at least
Craig: Absolutely.
Chris: Make him Chase's personal coach
Jake: Chase isn't going be anything like Kelly was though. He's not the blocking type. Although if he developed strength, that's something he could work on this year, that would be a bonus.
Josh: There's a lot of interesting thoughts here. But the question is, what do we do? Do we keep 3RB/2FB/3TE or 4 RB/1FB/3TB or 4RB/2FB/2TE? I like the latter. The 4RB/2FB/2TE.
Chris: The latter
Craig: I say 4/2/2. I think that's the best way to keep the most talent on the squad.
Jake: I'd say 4 2 2
Josh: Sweet.

Josh: So who is the second fullback? I favor Pressley. Though I believe the team will go with Vakapuna.
Craig: I really think its Pressley, which means we'll lose Fui.
Chris: If the staff says Pressley is the better blocker...
Craig: Although, check that; Mike Brown is in the equation. The coaches want Pressley, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that Mike goes with the draft pick.
Josh: I wouldn't doubt that.
Craig: So are we agreed on Vakapuna then, even reluctantly?
Chris: I want the best blocker
Josh: I'm honestly not sure.
Jake: I'd assume we keep the draft pick. Pressley to the practice squad.
Chris: Then yeah, the draft pick
Craig: If he makes it there
Josh: I think I favor Pressley, but I see the team taking Fui.
Chris: Fui is supposed to be a good pass-catcher

(Josh departs momentarily)

Craig: What are your guys' plans for the holiday weekend?
Chris: I cannot wait for tomorrow. College football overdose.
Jake: Party?
Craig: I know! I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, then I'll be at the Canfield Fair all day on Sunday. Performing in a big show Sunday night.
Chris: Yes, absolutely a party
Jake: All my friends are away.
Craig: It's all right, you'll have several college athletes to keep you company!
Chris: Beer and college football. That'll be all the friends we need.

Josh: I believe the top four wide receivers are set: Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Andre Caldwell. I think the team keeps Jerome Simpson simply because he was the team's second round pick last year. There are four wide receivers competing for that last spot. Now, do you guys believe Simpson makes the squad? If so, then who will be the sixth? I believe Quan Cosby makes it.
Jake: I think Simpson definitely makes it. He's flashed some skills.
Craig: It's down to Purify or Cosby for me if Simpson stays; which I think he does also.
Jake: I didn't see enough of the game last night to make the call if Cosby makes it
Craig: Cosby didn't do much if anything last night, but neither did Purify; if I recall correctly, anyway. Again, I missed the first half.
Chris: Simpson stays.
Josh: What about Antonio Chatman? He could be a Marvin Lewis favorite, making the squad by default. Purify's only advantage is that he has more receptions than Cosby. Cosby has none on offense, by the way.
Jake: How could Chatman possibly make it at this point?
Craig: Man. Forgot about Chatman, completely.
Josh: I don't see it either.
Craig: I think I agree. Chatman has to be out.
Jake: I mean, I guess I see that he's Marvin’s boy, but man, please, no.
Josh: Then you have Freddie Brown.
Chris: He can't stay over Cosby or Purify? Or won't I guess
Craig: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, Purify for Craig. Tom Nelson makes Cosby expendable/PS candidate.
Josh: They could justify that Chatman, when healthy, is the better receiver on offense. And to be honest, I would agree. However, the durability issue makes it impossible for me to keep.
Craig: I don't see Chatman outplaying Purify at this point. Not even close. Although, when healthy, yeah. I suppose.
Chris: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, Chatman
Josh: Wow. We're totally split on this one. I predict Cosby, only because of his punt return potential. Chris has Chatman, Craig has Purify and Jake just hates Chatman.
Chris: I have Chatman because he's Marvin's boy and has experience with the team.
Jake: I don't like any of the options at number six.
Josh: I honestly can see that, Chris.
Craig: I'd like to see Cosby stick, I really would. Maybe they practice squad Purify again if Chatman doesn't stick.
Jake: He hasn't played or practiced. No way Chatman makes it
Chris: Yeah, that's true too. If not Chatman, Cosby. But Purify is damn physical for his size.
Jake: Cosby has some good special teams utility, but I don't think he has enough to stick. Bernard Scott looked great in that kick return.
Craig: I just hate to see them maybe lose Purify. The guy's a beast physically.
Chris: That's true. More so than Cosby
Josh: So it's between Cosby and Purify. Let's take a vote.
Chris: I'm changing my vote again
Craig: He made Roy Williams look like a fool in the Oklahoma.
Chris: Damn persuasive up in here
Josh: That was embarrassing as hell for Roy.
Craig: That said, first punt return for touchdown in, what, five years?
Josh: Who was also trying to cop out of the drills with Coles.
Jake: Purify is my vote.
Chris: I voted for Cosby for punt return. But the Scott point made perfect sense.
Craig: I'm so glad I'm not making this decision for the team! Don't forget Tom Nelson's 44-yard return last week either.
Josh: Alright, Purify?
Craig: The more they're going to want to use Scott in the offense the less they're going to use him in the return game, remember.
Josh: Good point, Craig.
Chris: I hate that concept
Josh: I think Scott would be kickoff return anyway, not punt return.
Jake: If they keep four running backs, Scott won't get much playing time. We think they keep 4 RB, so Scott can return kicks and play on some third downs.
Josh: Dorsey could too.
Craig: Ah! Okay. Ocho. Coles. Henry. Caldwell. Simpson. Cosby. That's my final answer.
Josh: But the issue is punt return; Scott hasn't returned a punt yet. Cosby, in the preseason, returned seven punts and Nelson got six.
Craig: Purify to the practice squad for the second year running.
Chris: I’m back on Cosby again
Josh: OK, time for final vote.
Chris: Cosby
Craig: Cosby
Jake: I think Cosby will make it. Sorry. I want Purify.
Josh: I can see why. You're right. He is a beast.
Craig: I'd be okay with Cosby, really. We have enough talent on offense that I think the 6th WR has to contribute in other ways anyway, so Cosby is the better call the more I think about it.
Josh: I just think that Cosby brings more immediate contributions. Purify isn't a returner and I highly doubt he gets any playing time with Chad, Coles, Henry and Caldwell in front.

Josh: In 2006 and 2008, the Bengals took nine offensive linemen. In 2007, they kept eight. We can assume they're keeping Andre Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Nate Livings, Anthony Collins, Andre Smith, Jonathan Luigs and Scott Kooistra. So we're left with one spot left.
Jake: Jason Shirley
Josh: OK, there's two thoughts here. We could go with eight and be done.
Craig: Well, if we do keep nine including Shirley or someone else, which position is left to suffer?
Josh: The issue with a ninth is that we could be cutting into the defensive roster -- which might not be a bad idea because they seem like the stronger of the two units.
Chris: Or keep eight and keep Purify. But yeah, I see the point about not hurting the defense as bad
Josh: And I disagree with Shirley. While he's literally throwing guys when blocking, I just don't think he's ready to make the roster. He's the typical Marvin Lewis project guy. I think he's still eligible for the practice squad. I think Dennis Roland has a better shot.
Chris: "literally throwing guys when blocking" Is a hard talent to ignore, even if he is a little raw.
Craig: Shirley should be eligible for the practice squad, but I'd bet good money that we'd lose him in the process, especially with him being such a mauler at guard.
Josh: I agree, Chris. That's why I think they'll hope he clears waivers. It wasn't so long ago that Marvin Lewis said flatly on Hard Knocks that Shirley's last chance to make the squad at all was to convert to the offense. In reality, the question is do you want to keep a fourth guard, or a fourth tackle.
Craig: Fourth tackle, for my money. How are we looking at Andre Smith in this equation? Are we actually talking about a fifth tackle?
Josh: That's why I think Roland's the better choice right now. Think of it this way. If Smith doesn't return soon, and god forbid, Whitworth or Collins goes down, we're out of tackles.
Chris: I need a beer
Josh: Sure, Kooistra can play the position, but he's been working mostly guard too.
Craig: I agree with you, Josh. Roland is the smart choice here.
Josh: For now at least. If Shirley passes waivers and I believe he will, and then he's signed to the practice squad, that would be the best scenario for him.
Craig: I'm cool with that. I might be overestimating, but I do worry that he won't clear waivers.
Josh: We also have Evan Mathis and Andrew Crummey. Think those two have a shot?
Craig: I'd say Mathis more than Crummey.
Josh: Alright, full vote. Between Roland and Shirley.
Chris: Roland
Craig: 2. Reluctantly.
Jake: Humph. Roland, I guess. I'd like Shirley.
Josh: I think we all would, to be honest.
Chris: Yep. Tackle will win out, however
Josh: Alright. The offense is set. SWEET!

Craig: Sidebar: Any kind of wishing we could keep Swank?
Josh: He proved that franchising Graham was kind of redonkulous. I love that word.
Jake: Swank hasn't been that impressive. But he made what Josh said true
Craig: Makes me think of Koothrapali in Big Bang Theory.

Josh: Now, historically, the Bengals have taken eight defensive linemen. Mostly it's four defensive ends and four defensive tackles. Here's what I think are locks; Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko. That leaves two guys.
Craig: Rucker should be in the equation probably.
Josh: Well, you got Fanene and Rucker at defensive end. Harrington too.
Craig: Right, Fanene and Harrington the tight end.
Josh: Then you have Clinton McDonald, Langston Moore and Vernell Jenkins at DT.
Chris: I'm voting Jenkins. And you all already know that
Josh: A little UK love?
Jake: Moore's gotta make it.
Craig: Moore is a good pick too.
Chris: Absolutely
Craig: So we really need one end and one tackle. Rucker and Moore?
Josh: I think Moore is the more likely pick. Does that leave McDonald on the practice squad? As for Rucker, I think Fanene beats him out. And the only reason I say that is Rucker's durability. He has none.
Chris: True
Craig: Yeah, you're right. For some reason I always forget about Fanene.
Jake: Might be hard to deny Rucker a spot though, he has quite a bit of talent and has played well.
Craig: He's one of those guys that's just solid and makes plays.
Josh: In three seasons, Rucker has only played 16 games.
Chris: Sterling
Craig: Ouch.
Josh: I like Rucker too. I mean, the dude will catch on with easily another team.
Chris: And be healthy
Craig: And be a perennial All-Pro and eventual HoF inductee.
Chris: You got it
Josh: Cincinnati karma.
Jake: Fanene has been pretty solid though when he gets playing time.
Craig: I like Fanene for his DE/DT versatility. Similar to Bryan Robinson in that regard.
Josh: Fanene has only missed two games in the past two seasons, though he hasn't been flashy. I like his versatility too.
Craig: I think this team is at the point where they need to (at least on the defensive side of the ball) put guys in place who make plays, not guys who might make plays. This defensive unit is CLOSE.
So for his solid play and durability/versatility, my vote goes to Fanene I think.
Josh: I agree. And if Rucker stays healthy, he fits that bill. But you have to depend on the guy too.
Craig: Right. That was my primary point.
Josh: On the other hand, Harrington has two sacks this preseason.
Craig: Yeah. Crap.
Chris: That's big
Josh: Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Craig: What string was he playing against?
Josh: Not much against the first team. Not really sure if he had many first half snaps.
Craig: So that's in the equation too, kind of, sorta.
Josh: Agreed. So the question between Rucker and Fanene is health. Harrington, if he passes waivers, can be ~~the team's starting tight end and~~ join the practice squad.
Craig: So Rucker=out. Another third round pick down the tubes (3rd?). Guys? Fanene or Harrington? All considered I think it has to be Fanene.
Josh : I'm picking Fanene, only because of the question about Rucker's health.
Chris: Didn't we establish Mike Brown likes draft picks?
Craig: lol @ the TE comment. That'll never get old.
Josh: I've cried every night in my sleep after that.
Craig: So we agree that WE want Fanene. Thoughts on what will actually happen?
Josh: I actually think it'll be Fanene. He's on his second contract right now anyway. So you know the team likes him, and Jake is right, Fanene is solid.
Craig: I'm good with that, Josh.
Jake: I think Fanene will stick.
Josh : So we went with Langston Moore and Jonathan Fanene.

Josh: In respect to linebackers, the Bengals took eight in 2006, seven in 2007, and six in 2008. The locks, I think, are Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Rey Maualuga, Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson.
Craig: Yep.
Josh: I really liked Hodge during preseason and he's a special teams contributor. I think he backs up Dhani.
Jake: Hodge absolutely sticks. Simmons will be sure of it.
Craig: Right.
Chris: That's six.
Craig: So. Maxwell? In or out?
Jake: I dunno about Maxwell.
Josh: I think Blackstock makes it, if for any reason, he can play defensive end also.
Craig: I was going to say I think Blackstock sticks. His career-ending hit on Utecht has to count for something other than wasting another of my Bengals jerseys.
Josh: Then you have Dan Stuka.
Chris: I vote for him on name alone. That's just a badass name
Craig: We need to bring back Bjork.
Jake: Reminds me too much of Ditka
Josh: There's another issue we need to consider. Do we just keep six backers and 10 in the secondary? Or seven backers and 9 in the secondary.
Craig: Got to be 7 and 9, I think.
Chris: "What's your name, punk?" "Dan STUKA." "Oh, damn. Don't mess w/that guy." "Damn right.
Chris: I'm sorry
Josh: It's a sweet football name. Then the seventh linebacker has to be Blackstock.
Craig: Absolutely. Blackstock at #7 backer.
Chris: Yes, Blackstock
Josh: Alright, we'll go with Blackstock.

Craig: So we're on to the secondary then?
Josh : Now this will be the toughest one of the night -- and the last.
Craig: Josh, locks?
Chris: (whispers) Dan Stuka will be watching us. Remember that.
Josh: I got Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Chinedum Ndukwe and Roy Williams. Now, I think Tom Nelson is a close lock -- like most everyone else, I loved his play.
Craig: Hall, Joseph, Jones, Crocker, Ndukwe, Williams, Nelson would be my locks. Personally.
Josh: I agree, so Nelson makes the team?
Chris: Who's that kid that made that huge sack against the Pats?
Craig: I don't see how he can't make the team. The guy's a beast.
Josh: Chris likes Nelson too.
Chris: Yeah, him
Craig: Nelson brings versatility as I think he could be a nickel corner also.
Chris: He's certainly got the speed for nickel
Josh: I question David Jones. Is the talent in the secondary deep enough? Is Jones worth keeping, though he didn't make any preseason games?
Craig: It depends on how confident they are with either trying Nelson there or Geoff Pope.
Josh: No thanks on Pope.
Craig: Just sayin'.
Josh: Kyries Hebert is another I like that doesn't much notice, because his strength is his special teams play.
Craig: I'm glad Fletcher is already gone so we don't have to factor him in.
Josh: No doubt
Craig: Yeah, Hebert's got to stay. Led in teams tackles last year, didn't he?
Josh: Yea. We're up to seven. What about Morgan Trent? We need to start looking at cornerbacks. We've listed five safeties already.
Craig: Okay. I think Trent sticks.
Josh: Trent makes the team. You agree?
Chris: Absolutely. Haven't seen much, but what I've read.
Josh : He hasn't been bad.
Craig: So one more. Lynch? That's another safety so maybe Lynch goes.
Josh: I don't know. This is where I think David Jones squeezes in.
Craig: Yeah, more than likely.
Josh: You could also go Pope or Rico Murray.
Craig: Jones improved over last season. No. Jones is better than either of them. Practice squad Pope again, he may be ready next year.
Josh: Jones was placed on the depth chart as the third CB at the start of training camp. Do we reluctantly agree with Jones, or do you guys think we should go with six safeties and keep Lynch?
Craig: That probably depends on Nelson's cover skills.
Chris: Three cornerbacks?
Craig: I wouldn't mind keeping Lynch around, but we definitely need another corner.
Josh: What about Marvin White. We're completely excluding him.
Craig: I'm getting a headache.
Josh: We could swap out Hebert for White.
Craig: Crap, I didn't even realize that White wasn't on our list. I think that says enough about him, though. I think White goes.
Josh: Axe White?
Craig: How do you keep him over your number one special teams guy?
Josh: I'm just not sure where he'd fit in. It would be a numbers game. On the other hand, would the Bengals elect to keep White over Nelson?
Craig: A couple of years ago our special teams squad was decimated and it took over a year to shore it back up. I don't want to see that happen again.
Chris: Better not
Craig: White/Nelson. That's actually probably the best battle happening right now on defense.
Josh: Or, we could dump a running back for another guy in the secondary.
Craig: Dump Dorsey if we want to go that route.
Josh: Dump the oft-injured Dorsey for White. Now we're getting interesting.
Craig: For me? No question. None at all.
Chris: See ya
Craig: What will Mike Brown do, though?
Josh: Exactly.
Chris: Suck. That's what he'll do
Josh: I can see that.
Craig: Son of a gun. I'm stressing about this like we have any say in the matter right now, rubbing my temples and such.
Josh: LOL. We're on the last roster spot. Here's something else to consider. Dating back to 2006, the Bengals have always taken ten or more defensive backs.
Chris: STUKA. Sorry
Craig: So we're short unless we knock off Dorsey, which throws us back into the Dorsey/Leonard discussion. I really wish he hadn't have blocked/returned that punt.
Josh: In regards to Dorsey, I'm not sure if we should use a spot on him for blocking a punt. While it's nice, it's never a certainty. And with Dorsey's skillset, we have Scott.
Craig: I know that. You know that. Bratkowski talked on this week's Hard Knocks about him blocking the field goal two years ago.
Josh: Yea, it just goes to show how fickle the coaches are on the competition.
Craig: Right. I mean, I like a punt block and touchdown as much as the next guy, but...
Josh: On another note, think about it this time last year. You know who we were discussing? Perry, Watson, Dorsey. So you're starting to favor cutting Dorsey for a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Wow. What a difference a year makes. Yes. Yes, I am. Dorsey goes, White stays for me.
Chris: I don't see them dumping a four-year player for a 10th defensive back. Just sayin'
Josh: I think it's a valid point. Do you get rid of Dorsey, who played redonkulous this preseason, for sheer numbers in the secondary? Instead of White, we could keep Lynch. Or we could keep Pope However, here's another point. How much playing time do we really expect Dorsey to get with Cedric, Scott and Leonard in front of him.
Chris: What if Cedric goes back to sucking?
Craig: Dorsey is just going to get hurt. Again.
Chris: Maybe more than it would first seem.
Craig: Chris, that's when Scott takes over.
Chris: Every down?
Craig: Leonard will share. I'm not worried about Cedric, though.
Chris: I am.
Josh: Honestly, if Benson goes down, then I think Leonard becomes the feature back and then Dorsey would be the team's third-down back. And if Benson sucks, then Palmer throws for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. No problem.
Chris: Over Scott? Leonard.
Josh: I think Leonard has the build and style to be a feature back. Scott needs to be that change of pace guy. I would be surprised if he ever gets 15 carries this year.
Craig: LT, Josh?
Josh: You're comparing Scott to LT?
Craig: No. Just sayin'.
Chris: He's got mad skill
Josh: Hey, who knows what happens. I just don't think takes over a feature back role this year.
Craig: Okay. Does DeDe stay or go?
Chris: Stay.

Josh: Here's where we are. We have 52 players set now. We have only 9 defensive backs. The Bengals have historically taken 10 or more. We're thinking of freeing up a spot to give us a 10th, and we instinctively went right to DeDe.
Jake: I have company.
Craig: Nice.
Chris: Pics?
Josh: iPhone?

Josh: We're so close! One more... we... can... do... it... We just need to make a decision. Do we take someone out in favor of a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Okay. DeDe is long past practice squad-eligible, right? Not that it would matter, someone would snatch him up like the Colts did anyway.
Josh: You guys know that the Bengals coaches are right now talking about this.
Chris: I'm keeping Dorsey.

Strength in numbers; an examination of who the Bengals started the regular season since 2006

Kirkendall — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:05:45 -0000

When the preseason marches towards a welcomed conclusion, discussion and debate takes place on who the team cuts and keeps. Sometimes the topic goes into salary cap causalities; veterans that are cut, like Willie Anderson and Rudi Johnson last year. Other times, the debate talks about players that surprisingly make the roster. As jsl413 broke down, the Bengals depth is strong in some areas, weak in others. Which means the Bengals could strengthen weaken positions by increasing the depth. It's a numbers game.

You see that notably with linebackers. In 2006, Brian Simmons was nearing retirement; his production was falling. David Pollack, while great with potential, was only then starting to adjust from being a defensive end in college to an outside linebacker in the NFL. Rashad Jeanty was a rookie. Landon Johnson was arguably our best linebacker. If you look back to that season, only one linebacker remains (Jeanty) with the Bengals and as far as I can tell, three are still in the NFL (Jeanty, Johnson and Ahmad Brooks). The position didn't improve in 2007 and grew worse when it was decimated by injury. Dhani Jones, an unlikely stability force who would join the team later in the year, became the most productive middle linebacker during Marvin Lewis' tenure. By 2008, the linebackers were on pace to be the most talented group assembled, taking less into the regular season while numerically increasing their numbers at other spots, like running back, defensive tackles -- two spots with limited production. You'll obviously see that again this year, with Jones, Jeanty, Rivers, Brandon Johnson and Rey Maualuga as the depth leaders.

Running backs is another example. In 2006, and even 2007, Rudi Johnson was considered the team's feature back. No competition. Hands down. After all, he set franchise rushing records in 2004 and 2005. However, along with the offensive line's degradation, he started degrading (some will note his inadvisable weight loss regiment, losing all of his strength in 2006) until he was finally cut in 2008. More importantly, the Bengals decided to take two fullbacks because Jeremi Johnson was simply not the force he used to be and the team liked Coats' enough to make room for him. While the talent level dipped, the team decided to strengthen the depth with numbers.

Take note of this. Am I saying that the depth and position is stronger because there's more players? Obviously not. You either have talent or you don't. A combination of average talent still makes that position average. But it is a luxury that most teams have, which largely depends on play-calling philosophy, as well as projecting your opponents philosophies. If you take on more defensive backs in any given year because your passing defense is poor, it allows you additional packages. But it's also dictated by strength. You will note how once the team had Leon Hall and Johnathan Joseph, they believed the position strong enough to only take four cornerbacks in 2008, as opposed to five in 2007 and 2006. Safeties increased because a long-standing issue of giving up big plays was still unanswered. You can bank on at least six safeties this year.

After the jump, you can see which players the Bengals took after cutdown day and how many players the team took at each position.

First thing we should note are the roster cut deadlines:

DATE	EVENT
September 1st	Roster cutdown to maximum of 75 players
September 5th	Roster cutdown to maximum of 53 players

Here's a breakdown on what positions the Bengals after final cutdown heading into the regular season.

Position	2006	2007	2008
Quarterbacks	3	3	3
Running backs (including FB)	4	4 (1)	5 (2)
Wide Receivers	6	6	6
Offensive Linemen	9	8	9
Tight Ends	2	3	2
Total on Offense	24	24	25

Defensive Ends	4	5	4
Defensive Tackles	4	3	5
Linebackers	8	7	6
Cornerbacks	5	5	4
Safeties	5	6	6
Total on Defense	26	26	25

Specialists	3	3	3

After the jump, we chart which players the Bengals kept since 2006.

2006

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson
RB / FB	4	Rudi Johnson, Kenny Watson, Quincy Wilson, Jeremi Johnson (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Chris Henry, Tab Perry, Antonio Chatman, Kelley Washington
O-Line	9	Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Bobbie Williams, Willie Anderson, Andrew Whitworth, Eric Ghiaciuc, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra
TE	2	Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

DE	4	Justin Smith, Bryan Robinson, Robert Geathers, Frostee Rucker
DT	4	Sam Adams, John Thornton, Domata Peko, Shaun Smith
Linebackers	8	Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, David Pollack, Rashad Jeanty, Marcus Wilkins, Ahmad Brooks, A.J. Nicholson, Caleb Miller
Corners	5	Deltha O'Neal, Tory James, Johnathan Joseph, Keiwan Ratliff, Greg Brooks
Safeties	5	Dexter Jackson, Madieu Williams, Kevin Kaesviharn, Ethan Kilmer, Herana-Daze Jones

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

2007

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jeff Rowe
RB / FB	4	Rudi Johnson, Kenny Watson, Clinton Dawson, Jeremi Johnson (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Tab Perry, Glenn Holt, Skyler Green, Antonio Chatman
O-Line	8	Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Andrew Whitworth, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra, Eric Ghiaciuc, Alex Stepanovich
TE	3	Reggie Kelly, Daniel Coats, Nate Lawrie

DE	5	Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Bryan Robinson, Frostee Rucker, Jonathan Fanene
DT	3	Domata Peko, John Thornton, Michael Myers
Linebackers	7	Ahmad Brooks, Rashad Jeanty, Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Lemar Marshall, Andre Frazier, Anthony Schlegel
Corners	5	Deltha O'Neal, Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph, Keiwan Ratliff, David Jones
Safeties	6	Dexter Jackson, Chinedum Ndukwe, Madieu Williams, Marvin White, Herana-Daze Jones, Ethan Kilmer

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

2008

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jordan Palmer
RB / FB	5	Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, Jeremi Johnson (FB), Daniel Coats (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Glenn Holt, Antonio Chatman, Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson
O-Line	9	Stacy Andrews, Levi Jones, Eric Ghiaciuc, Bobbie Williams, Andrew Whitworth, Dan Santucci, Kyle Cook, Scott Kooistra, Anthony Collins
TE	2	Reggie Kelly, Ben Utecht

DE	4	Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker
DT	5	Domata Peko, John Thornton, Jason Shirley, Pat Sims, Michael Myers
Linebackers	6	Keith Rivers, Rashad Jeanty, Dhani Jones, Darryl Blackstock, Brandon Johnson, Corey Mays
Corners	4	Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph, Simeon Castille, David Jones
Safeties	6	Dexter Jackson, Kyries Hebert, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch, Chinedum Ndukwe, Marvin White

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

Bengals Training Camp: The vastly improved Bengals linebackers will be fun to watch this year

Kirkendall — Wed, 29 Jul 2009 13:29:01 -0000

More photos » by Tom Uhlman - AP

6 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals' Keith Rivers runs plays during football practice in Cincinnati Friday June 19, 2009. (AP Photo/Tom Uhlman)

Browse more photos »

Let me take you back to September 4, 2007. The Bengals just won their first preseason game, beating the Indianapolis Colts 14-6 to end with a 1-3 preseason record. It was time to participate in National Layoff Day in which several professional football players lose their jobs so teams can get underneath the required 53-man roster limit. Running back Clinton Dawson made the roster -- as did Skyler Green.

What's really interesting from the team's 2007 kickoff weekend roster is the linebackers. Ahmad Brooks started the middle. Lemar Marshall and Landon Johnson played on the outside and backups included Caleb Miller, Rashad Jeanty, Andre Frazier and Anthony Schlegel. Brooks, Miller, and Marshall were lost early in the season and eventually Cincinnati signed Dhani Jones, Roy Manning and Jim Maxwell.

Fast forward two years. Of all the players on the 2007 kickoff weekend roster, Rashad Jeanty is the only linebacker that remains. Landon Johnson signed with the Carolina Panthers and Andre Frazier returned to Pittsburgh. Ahmad Brooks signed with the San Francisco 49ers, was waived in late November but re-signed in early December. Caleb Miller and Anthony Schlegel haven't signed on with another team and you have to assume Lemar Marshall is retired, after rupturing his Achilles tendon that year. Brooks, Frazier and Johnson, players that left Cincinnati and signed on with new teams, have combined to start zero games.

Dhani Jones signed on in 2007 and solidified the team's inside linebacker spot. Keith Rivers and Rey Maualuga were draft picks in 2008 and 2009 respectively. The Bengals signed Brandon Johnson and Darryl Blackstock to one-year contracts in 2008 and 2009 and Rashad Jeanty went from Exclusive Rights free agent to Restricted Free Agent and signed one-year deals each season.

Compare linebackers from the 2007 kickoff weekend roster to the team's current roster of linebackers.

Ahmad Brooks	Dhani Jones
Rashad Jeanty	Rashad Jeanty
Landon Johnson	Keith Rivers
Caleb Miller	Rey Maualuga
Lemar Marshall	Brandon Johnson
Andre Frazier	Darryl Blackstock
Anthony Schlegel	Abdul Hodge
	Jim Maxwell

To say that Marvin Lewis and company revamped the team's linebackers from 2007, while suffering the unexpected loss of David Pollack and Odell Thurman -- considered in 2005 to be the foundation pieces at linebacker like Rivers and Maualuga are now -- would be an understatement. Each linebacker spot is vastly improved with enough youth to see long-term growth.

Two years after 2007, the Bengals are now focused on Dhani Jones in the middle. Keith Rivers returning after missing nine games to injury -- and he's looking to have a major impact this year. Rey Maualuga will compete with Rashad Jeanty all season long, claiming starting rights at strong-side linebacker. Here's where the Bengals really improve. After recording 112 tackles in 2008 with only nine starts, Brandon Johnson will be a backup weak-side linebacker. Whomever doesn't win the competition between Jeanty and Maualuga, will be a backup at strong-side linebacker.

Our linebackers will be fun to watch this year.

Detailed Analysis of Bengals Roster - Examining likelihood of drafting each position

Kirkendall — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 14:48:06 -0000

Every so often we try to re-examine the team's current roster and how it relates to the NFL draft. Since we have less than a week to go, I figure it was time for us to examine the roster, look at (unscientific) probabilities that we'll draft at that position, and get a general feel for where this team stands. We'll do this all again a week or two after the draft to reexamine the team's roster. Note: Best and Worst Case scenarios are based on long-term visions that I have after drinking some funky blue stuff. Here goes.

QUARTERBACK (3)
Even though the Bengals signed J.T. O'Sullivan this off-season in response to Ryan Fitzpatrick departure for Buffalo, Cincinnati could look at drafting a quarterback, whom would compete with Jordan Palmer for that number-three emergency quarterback slot. If all goes well, and the Bengals select a late-draft quarterback (sixth round or later), there's a chance they could luck into finding a long-term backup solution. If all goes poorly, then we'll have another Jeff Rowe on our hands. I rated the Bengals quarterbacks as strong, weighting Palmer's return much more than any player does at any position. Without Palmer, it's a mediocre position.

Strength of position: Strong
Probability of drafting position: Maybe
Best case scenario: Find a quarterback late in the draft to eventually become a long-term backup solution.
Worst case scenario: Jeff Rowe
Highest round team could draft: Fifth Round

Carson Palmer
J.T. O'Sullivan
Jordan Palmer

RUNNING BACK (6)
This off-season, the Bengals were able to re-sign Cedric Benson to a two-year contract, and recently claimed Gary Russell off of waivers. Still on the roster is Kenny Watson, who briefly became the team's feature back in 2007 and recorded two 130-yard plus performances. Chris Perry's low yard-per-rush and propensity to fumble likely cost him. DeDe Dorsey and James Johnson will have to put together masterful off-season and training camp performances just to have a shot on the roster. The Bengals are likely drafting a running back to backup Benson while, we think, Russell will be primarily used as a short-yardage/goalline back.

Strength of position: Average
Probability of drafting position: High
Best case scenario: Draft a running back that plays behind Benson and eventually replaces him as the team's starting running back within a year or two.
Worst case scenario: Kenny Irons
Highest round team could draft: Second Round

Cedric Benson
Gary Russell
Kenny Watson
Chris Perry
DeDe Dorsey
James Johnson

FULLBACKS (2)
In 2004 and 2005, former Bengals running back Rudi Johnson broke franchise single-season rushing marks in back-to-back seasons. A large part of that contribution goes to quality blocking from the fullback spot. Daniel Coats moved to fullback last season. And while he did his best in the transformation from tight end to fullback, he's just not an NFL-caliber blocker.

Strength of position: Very Weak
Probability of drafting position: High
Best case scenario: A bull-dozer.
Worst case scenario: Not realizing the need for a quality fullback and doing nothing about it.
Highest round team could draft: Fifth Round

Daniel Coats
J.D. Runnels

WIDE RECEIVER (8)
This has been the most talked about position during the off-season; ranging from T.J. Houshmandzadeh's departure to trade rumors about Chad Johnson. Furthermore, the Bengals costliest free agent pickup was Laveranues Coles. With all that said and done, there's really no concrete idea of what the Bengals are going to do here. One argument suggests that the Bengals will pick up a top-tier wide receiver in the first round, with an opposite argument that the Bengals won't draft anyone. With Johnson, Coles and Chris Henry the top-three receivers on the depth chart, and Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson drafted last season, I don't see any way the Bengals draft a receiver. When and where would he play? Basing a conclusion at this position is a matter of conjecture and I don't believe the Bengals will, or even should, draft a receiver. If Johnson is traded, we'll see. However, I've been very clear on my position about the team drafting a receiver. I don't like it. However, this is the only position in which I rate "probability of drafting position" as unknown.

Strength of position: Strong (based on potential), Average overall
Probability of drafting position: Unknown
Best case scenario: Not drafting a receiver and Caldwell and Simpson come through.
Worst case scenario: Bengals use the first-round pick for a wide receiver and he never gets playing time.
Highest round team could draft: First through Fifth

Chad Johnson
Laveranues Coles
Chris Henry
Andre Caldwell
Jerome Simpson
Antonio Chatman
Mario Urrutia
Maurice Purify

TIGHT END (5)
We're a spoiled bunch when it comes to tight ends. No, not recently of course. Through our history, the franchise has seen all-pro quality tight ends with great hands. Then when the Bengals offense recently morphed back to a passing offense, the philosophy turned tight ends into blockers to help protection and limit trends between blocking and receiving specific ends. The question here is how do you think tight ends should be built in Cincinnati now?

Strength of position: Weak (if you think TEs should be receivers), Mediocre (overall)
Probability of drafting position: Low
Best case scenario: Utecht provides a reason why we should have signed him.
Worst case scenario: Kelly leaves after the year, Utecht is disappointing (or injured) again and Matt Sherry amounts to nothing.
Highest round team could draft: Fifth Round

Reggie Kelly
Ben Utecht
Matt Sherry
Nate Lawrie
Brad St. Louis (LS)

OFFENSIVE TACKLE (4)
We've talked about offensive tackles just as much, if not more than Chad Johnson rumors. The facts are appalling; 51 quarterback sacks allowed, and the league's 30th best yard-per-rush average. As it stands, Collins and Jones would figure to be the team's starting offensive tackles. However, Jones has been reportedly on the trading block, and additional reports suggest that he'll just be released if no suitors are found. There is an option that the Bengals could move guard Andrew Whitworth to tackle. However, until that happens, we're keeping Whitworth as a guard in our analysis.

Strength of position: Weak
Probability of drafting position: Certain
Best case scenario: First-round draft pick contributes to an offensive line rebound and multiple All-Pro selection.
Worst case scenario: Bengals do little to address the position leaving the line in a weakened state and pushing back personnel turnover to a point that rebuilding efforts are pushed back an additional year.
Highest round team could draft: First Round

Anthony Collins
Levi Jones
Dennis Roland
Scott Kooistra

GUARD (4)
While offensive tackle is rated as a certain need, guard really isn't that far behind. However the urgency is less because the team figures to have two starting guards, and a third guard that filled in decently when Whitworth went down in 2008. The issue here is 2010. After this year, the only guard on roster will be Andrew Whitworth. If the Bengals don't draft a guard or two this year, it will likely become a critical need in 2010.

Strength of position: Average
Probability of drafting position: Maybe-High
Best case scenario: Bengals draft a quality guard this year, allowing Williams to mentor him for a season and becomes starter in 2010.
Worst case scenario: As typical with the Bengals perception, guards aren't all that critical. Therefore don't address the position and draft guards next year simply to fill the roster.
Highest round team could draft: Fourth Round

Bobbie Williams
Andre Whitworth
Nate Livings
Evan Mathis

CENTER (3)
The first draft pick by the Cincinnati Bengals franchise was a center. That's how Paul Brown viewed the offensive line; build from the center out. During the height of the Bengals offensive success during the Carson Palmer era, Rich Braham occupied center, directing traffic and handling the beasts of the AFC North. After his injury in 2006, the Bengals offense began to depreciate. No, we're not blaming Eric Ghiaciuc here -- there's was a general lack of effort by the coaches and front office to rebuild the offensive line allowing the team to suffer so poorly in 2008.

Strength of position: Mediocre
Probability of drafting position: Certain
Best case scenario: Bengals draft one of the top-three centers in the second round as part of a long-term offensive line rebuilding project.
Worst case scenario: Bengals do nothing and put all their faith with the centers on roster, once again, deciding that rebuilding the team's offensive line isn't critical.
Highest round team could draft: Second Round

Dan Santucci
Kyle Cook
Andrew Crummey

DEFENSIVE END (5)
You know the issue here; two highly paid defensive ends failed to pressure the quarterback with any consistency evident by terrible sack numbers. However, because both defensive ends are highly paid, we don't project the Bengals drafting a defensive end on the first day of the NFL draft. However (part 2), because of the Bengals terrible pass rush, many experts are projecting that the Bengals will draft a defensive end high; even in the first round. While they've made some plays in the past, the Bengals roster of backup defensive ends can be, and perhaps should be, easily replaced.

Strength of position: Mediocre
Probability of drafting position: Maybe
Best case scenario: Bengals find a gem in the fifth round or later that challenges the two highly paid defensive end to put in some production. Also, Antwan Odom and Robert Geathers were hurt last year; having a "gem" as a backup player that can get to the quarterback will help immensely if injury becomes a factor again.
Worst case scenario: 2008
Highest round team could draft: First

Robert Geathers
Antwan Odom
Frostee Rucker
Jonathan Fanene
Chris Harrington

DEFENSIVE TACKLE (5)
Last year, the Bengals had defensive tackles Sedrick Ellis and Glenn Dorsey high on their board. This year, with the potential we've seen from Pat Sims, the signing of Tank Johnson and the potential of Jason Shirley, the Bengals could totally leave defensive tackle alone in the NFL draft. On the other hand, the Bengals could draft a defensive tackle high in the draft to complete a four-man rotation of Peko, Sims, Tank and super-massive defensive tackle, forcing the team into a combinations of rush-defensive tackles and pass-defensive tackles. Still, we don't see it. It seems more likely that the Bengals could be content with defensive tackle already.

Strength of position: Average-Strong (based on potential)
Probability of drafting position: Low-Maybe
Best case scenario: Bengals rely on their two draft picks in 2008 and Pat Sims and Jason Shirley \ come through.
Worst case scenario: Tank lost gas in the... well... and Sims and Shirley play average at best.
Highest round team could draft: First... more likely Fourth or later.

Domata Peko
Pat Sims
Tank Johnson
Jason Shirley
Orien Harris

LINEBACKERS (7)
I've pointed out before that linebackers could be a serious concern after 2009. Everyone save for Keith Rivers and Dhani Jones will be free agents. It's to the point that if the Bengals don't draft a linebacker this year, this could be the primary focus during the weeks leading up to the 2010 NFL Draft. However, it's speculated that Aaron Curry is on top of the Bengals board this year, and if he falls, the Bengals could pounce on him. If that's the case, then the "need" is tremendously reduced. The question at this point would be, at what cost to the offensive line.

Strength of position: Average
Probability of drafting position: Likely
Best case scenario: Bengals draft as many as two linebackers, one middle and one strong-side to eventually replace the current starters.
Worst case scenario: Rivers is hurt again, Jones feels his age and the Bengals don't draft a linebacker in 2009.
Highest round team could draft: First (if Curry falls to us); Fourth or later if he doesn't.

Keith Rivers
Dhani Jones
Rashad Jeanty
Brandon Johnson
Darryl Blackstock
Abdul Hodge
Jim Maxwell

CORNERBACKS (5)
If you base grades on the starters, I believe that the Bengals cornerbacks are very strong. While they're not shutdown backs, perhaps not even elite backs, I think they've made their share of great plays on defense. David Jones showed he has some talent but there's plenty of room for improvement. The difference between the teams cornerbacks and backups is pretty significant. Mike Zimmer has said that he'd love to draft a cornerback to play nickel and/or coverage-specific safety. I believe that the Bengals will address cornerbacks later in the draft to improve their depth.

Strength of position: Strong
Probability of drafting position: Maybe
Best case scenario: Bengals draft a coverage-excellent cornerback and improves the overall depth at the position.
Worst case scenario: Bengals bank on injury-free season at cornerback and do nothing to improve their depth.
Highest round team could draft: Third-Fourth

Johnathan Joseph
Leon Hall
David Jones
Simeon Castille
Geoffrey Pope

SAFETY (6)
This is another position that we could make a strong case for. However, that projection is based on potential. Corey Lynch started well in 2008 before falling to injury. Marvin White has his moments -- good and bad -- but also fell to injury. Chris Crocker was an awesome surprise and now he's talking leadership. Chinedum Ndukwe is the team's best seventh-round pick since drafting Houshmandzadeh. At the same time, there's weaknesses at safety against the pass. How many plays were there when a pass went over the top while the safeties were sprinting to catch up with wide receivers that blazed by him? We suspect that the Bengals will address safety in the draft to acquire a guy that's better suited to defend the pass.

Strength of position: Average-Strong (based on potential)
Probability of drafting position: High
Best case scenario: Bengals find another start-quality safety stacking the position with potential talent.
Worst case scenario: Crocker slumps, Lynch is hurt again and the Bengals have to rely on lesser talent on the team's depth.
Highest round team could draft: Third-Fourth

Chinedum Ndukwe
Chris Crocker
Corey Lynch
Marvin White
Mike Doss
Kyries Hebert

PUNTER (2)
If the Bengals had a good performance from Kyle Larson last year, this might not be a big deal. However, when your offense is forced to punt 100 times in a season, that means a lot depends on field position. And we didn't get that. Opposing teams had shorter field positions and the Bengals were often playing from behind with a terrible offense. A good punter could have helped that. Not only have the Bengals brought in competition for Larson, but there seems to be a very high likelihood that the Bengals draft a punter.

Strength of position: Weak
Probability of drafting position: High
Best case scenario: Bengals draft UC's Kevin Huber; a guy they've targeted since the end of the season.
Worst case scenario: Larson returns as the team's punter.
Highest round team could draft: Sixth

Kyle Larson
Ryan Plackemeier

KICKER (1)
This is an interesting position. Place kicker Shayne Graham still hasn't signed his franchise contract. There's a chance that if Graham doesn't sign a long-term deal by the end of 2009, he could be gone for free agency. Will that mean that the Bengals will draft a kicker this year? No. Next year? Well, probably no.

Strength of position: Strong
Probability of drafting position: Unlikely
Best case scenario: Graham resigns
Worst case scenario: Graham doesn't resign
Highest round team could draft: Eighth

Shayne Graham (unsigned)

That's my analysis. You might agree, you might not. Either way, I expect to hear from your perspectives as the NFL draft is scary close.

Bengals sign Defensive Tackle Orien Harris and OLB Darryl Blackstock

Kirkendall — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:50:49 -0000

One of the stories that we buried earlier today, meaning that it was written but not published yet (well, except for this sentence explaining that it's not published yet), is that the Bengals signed agreed to terms with defensive tackle Orien Harris. OK, so it doesn't have the same punch as the monitoring the Houshmandzadeh story, but it's nice to get back to business, right?

Harris was part of a defensive tackle rotation that included starters Domata Peko and John Thornton before Pat Sims made his way into the starting lineup. Recording 22 tackles, three hurries, Harris was an Exclusive Rights free agent, which means he only recorded two accrued seasons and no team could sign him away.

Defensive Tackles signed for 2009

Domata Peko
Pat Sims
Jason Shirley
Orien Harris

The Bengals also got Darryl Blackstock's signed to a one-year deal several days after coming to terms on a verbal agreement.

Our goal with this post, to get 100 "who cares" comments from 100 different people. And go.

Resetting Free Agency; Bengals so far have been "blah", but we shouldn't judge yet

Kirkendall — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:41:22 -0000

We can be highly critical of many things that the Cincinnati Bengals do. Well, we are critical. In fact, it's almost taboo if you break the ranks and support something that they do. I guess that's part of being a modern Bengals fan; if you're not angry with the team, then you're not really a fan because of a misunderstanding of one's victimization. Furthermore, there's a trend where if the Bengals do one thing, then it's wrong; therefore the alternative, or opposite, must be the correct path.

In truth, no one has any reason to believe differently.

For the past few weeks, the Bengals were slammed for their use of the franchise tag. Specifically, people were angry that the Bengals tagged a place kicker, rather than T.J. Houshmandzadeh; a critical offensive component. The Bengals didn't think he should get the money he's asking for when negotiation a long-term deal; reportedly in the $10 million neighborhood. The irony is that no team jumped on Houshmandzadeh's supposed asking price, allowing him only a confirmed visit with Seattle, an unconfirmed visit with Minnesota, and a pissed off Philadelphia franchise, prompting this writer to suggest that the Bengals might have a better chance to sign him. Also, ESPN Radio, 1050 in New York reported that Houshmandzadeh will be visiting the Giants -- not sure when.

What am I getting at? The Bengals refused to give Houshmandzadeh a $9.88 million franchise tag, allowing him to hit the free agency market. If they tagged him, and then tried to negotiate a long-term deal next season, the Bengals would be competing with other teams during a negotiation period in which the league would have no salary cap. This year would be the final year in which the Bengals could sign him to a long-term deal. So our guess is that the Bengals prevented the one-year contract attributed to the franchise tag, by allowing Houshmandzadeh to go, find out his market, and then compete once he was brought back to Earth so they're not negotiating during an uncapped season.

I'm totally speculating here. There's no known truths that this is their plan. Is this their strategy? Are they smart enough to manipulate events like this? It could come into reality if the Bengals actually do sign him.

Much of the issue that people are having is that the Bengals haven't appeared to address the offensive line in free agency. It's been 36 hours as of this writing, and we're pissed, right? While it is true, the Bengals haven't been front runners for any known free agents on the line, it's been pretty clear that the Bengals have locked up the idea of upgrading the unit through the draft; which in our opinion, is the appropriate course.

This became evident when the Bengals were mostly quiet with available free agent centers (a big need to address), starting with Jeff Saturday re-signing with the Colts. Many wanted Jason Brown, who wanted to milk the market to get the Ravens to match. The St. Louis Rams gave Brown a five-year deal worth $37.5 million with $20 million in guarantees. Matt Birk is available. Pete Prisco says to beware of Birk:

"If you doubt me, take a look at the Vikings-Eagles playoff game. Both Broderick Bunkley and Mike Patterson dominated Birk. He never blocked them. Birk no longer has the power to get people moved. He will be 33 this summer, which is also a risk. He's still a smart, heady player, but don't get caught up in the name here. This isn't the same Matt (Birk) that went to Pro Bowls."

Pat Kirwin breaks down centers, ranking them and listing Eric Ghiaciuc as the fifth best center. Seriously. Fifth best. Jake Grove is a high priority with the Raiders, however Melvin Fowler isn't expected to re-sign with Buffalo, who were also targeting Brown. What's odd about Kirwin's list is that Brown didn't break the top-five; yes, again, Ghiaciuc ahead of Brown. Therefore, we suggest that the likely plan with Cincinnati is to address center in the second round of the NFL Draft, for a price tag that's fractions of fractions compared to Brown's deal.

Why didn't they go after a tackle or guard? Pittsburgh Guard Chris Kemoeatu re-signed with the Steelers -- the deal is five years, worth up to $20 million and a $3.885 signing bonus. Seems reasonable, doesn't it? Mike Goff is still available, which should also tell you something. You could make a point that the Bengals could have at least entertained guys like Khalif Barnes, Mark Tauscher, Jonathan Stinchcomb, Derrick Dockery, however, I never believed that they were looking for starting linemen through free agency. The quick fix would make sense of course, but the Bengals view rebuilding the offensive line should be designed for long-term visions. Dating back to 2006, we've lost three starting linemen (Steinbach, Anderson, Braham) with a fourth on the way out (Jones). Patching the offensive line through free agency would cost too much. Devising a foundation of linemen through the draft enables the Bengals to develop a cohesive unit for several seasons without bankrupting Brown's accounts -- which you have to consider heavily if analyzing the Bengals.

In our view, the Bengals are right to let offensive line development fall back onto the NFL draft, while looking to fill gaps with veteran players, such as wide receivers, backup quarterbacks if not a running back or two. How their handling of the Houshmandzadeh sweepstakes is confusing, but if the above suggestion that they are manipulating events for him to return at a much lower cost than the tag, then it makes more sense; of course, he actually has to sign.

During the past week, the Bengals got their own without introducing a new player from free agency. Brandon Johnson and Rashad Jeanty are tendered as restricted free agents. They have until April 17 to sign their deals, waiting for other teams to potentially sign them away. Shayne Graham is franchised and returning no matter what. Darryl Blackstock verbally agreed to stick with Cincinnati for one more year and Chris Crocker signed a four-year deal on Friday (the only player signed this off-season to be here past 2009). We've lost Stacy Andrews and Ryan Fitzpatrick while the Bengals figure to be the front runners for running back Derrick Ward. Losing Andrews and Fitzpatrick hasn't broken any hearts and signing Ward would help solidify our running back position, assuming that Benson had no intention of returning.

In my conclusion, the Bengals first 36 hours during free agency has been "blah". But, it's been 36 hours, not days, nor weeks. Free agency will last for a long time, and there's the NFL Draft to still consider. It's too early to view the Bengals free agency period as a success or failure. However, we didn't expect them to go crazy during the first day, did we?

Poll

How do you view the Bengals off-season thus far?

Terrible. We haven't done anything

69 votes

Fine. I didn't expect much at this point

74 votes

Good. I didn't want to pay much for free agents

26 votes

No opinion. I'm only worried about the draft

11 votes

180 votes | Poll has closed

Bengals, Darryl Blackstock come to agreement; Cincinnati has seven linebackers for 2009

Kirkendall — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 03:55:49 -0000

Heading into the off-season, Darryl Blackstock was set to hit the free agency market as an unrestricted free agent. He was one of four unsigned linebackers heading into 2009, three being restricted free agents, the fourth being Blackstock. On Thursday night, the Bengals and Darryl Blackstock reached a verbal agreement for a one-year minimum deal (good work, Mr. Agent). This means Blackstock will not hit the free agency market, provided he doesn't change his mind and actually signs the deal.

One half of the linebacker exodus from Arizona last offseason, Blackstock played sparingly, recording 17 tackles on defense (NFL.com credits him with 20), five on special teams in 12 games this season; he served a four-game suspension for violating the league's substance abuse policy (an over-the-counter drug with a banned substance). Against the Indianapolis Colts, Blackstock recorded seven tackles and a quarterback hurry. Blackstock started three games as a right defensive end against the Colts, Redskins and Chiefs.

In the past week, the Bengals offered one-year tenders to restricted free agents Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson for $1.545 million each. Blackstock has a verbal agreement in place. Three linebackers are set to join the 2009 squad, once they sign their deals, giving us seven linebackers.

So how many linebackers have the Bengals typically started the season with? Thanks to Walrus for bringing it up (no really, I love working). Dating back to 2006, the Bengals started each season with a roster of at least six linebackers; 2006 being the only exception when they kept eight (see below).

On the 2008 squad:
Keith Rivers
Rashad Jeanty
Darryl Blackstock
Brandon Johnson
Corey Mays
Dhani Jones

On the 2007 squad:
Ahmad Brooks
Rashad Jeanty
Landon Johnson
Caleb Miller
Lemar Marshall
Andre Frazier

On the 2006 roster:
David Pollack
Brian Simmons
Landon Johnson.
Rashad Jeanty
Marcus Wilkins
Ahmad Brooks
A.J. Nicholson
Caleb Miller