SB Nation - Nick Leckey

Saints @ Falcons: Time to go from Sprint Mode to Marathon Mode?

saints-nation — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 12:00:18 -0000

by Rob Carr - AP

15 days ago: New Orleans Saints quarterback Drew Brees throws a pass against the Washington Redskins during the second half of an NFL football game, Sunday, Dec. 6, 2009, in Landover, Md. The Saints won 33-30 in overtime. (AP Photo/Rob Carr)

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Before I even touch on this matchup, I just want to say how crazy of a week it's been. After that improbable and ridiculous Redskins win we somehow managed to pull off (I'm still not quite sure how), the aftermath has been comical. By now you've all seen the TV Shot to Death video that's been circulating, and you've also seen the rise in popularity to celebrity status that The Uknown Who Dat has gotten. Funny, this "news" has been courtesy of the fan base almost entirely as the national media, relatively speaking, continues to ignore us (though the Brees appearance on Leno was nice to see). Add all these strangely funny things happening this week to the laughable underperforming play of Charles Grant, and you've got yourself the trifecta of hilarity.

Anyway, I digress, and as the Saints enter this weekend's clash against the Falcons it's time, in my opinion, to shift gears from sprint mode to marathon mode.

Saints vs Falcons coverage

Don't confuse my title for saying that I don't think the Saints should go for 16-0. I'll settle that by coming out and saying the following: If the Saints are 15-0 going into Carolina in week 17, I think Drew Brees should start the game. What I am saying is this: The ultimate goal of the Saints is winning the Super Bowl, and the less risks we take to ensure that the ultimate goal has the best chance of happening, the better.

There's a fine line between what you can and can't do when you're seeking perfection at 16-0 and winning a Super Bowl, but at this point with the division sealed up, being one win away from a first round playoff bye and having a two game lead on home field advantage with four games left, I think a slight tweak in approach is called for.There is nothing I would have changed from the approach the Saints had throughout the Redskins game. It was close, sloppy, and it saw the Saints go down two scores multiple times. They had to go for the win and give it their all. Should the same scenario happen this week at Atlanta, then they shouldn't change the approach there either.

That said, it's entirely possible with both Michael Turner and Matt Ryan likely out Sunday that the Saints could have a three posession lead in the third quarter. Yes, they had trouble against a struggling Redskins team; Yes, the defensive backfield is in shambles; Any given Sunday, that's why they play the game yada, yada, etc... I get all that. But they're also capable of blowing them out. If that happens, I saw some things in the Patriots game I would not want repeated.

At this point it's not one game at a time anymore. You have to consider what's best long term now. After Bill Belicheck quit on the Saints down 38-17, I remember thinking to myself as Mike Bell took the clock running carries: "Why not run Lynell Hamilton here. He's active..." Sure enough, Bell went limping to the sidelines and had me cursing, "You idiots!"

And who came in for Bell but Pierre Thomas. Ok, fine, Bell is the closer and you don't want to give the Patriots any new signs of life because of their pedigree. At this point, though, I would argue we have too much to lose. Kyle Eckel was about to be cut, for God's sake. Throw him to the wolves and let him run the football. If we happen to be up 21 points in the third quarter against Atlanta on Sunday, I not only want Lynell Hamilton running the ball, I want Mark Brunell handing the ball off and I want him running behind Zach Strief, Jamar Nesbit, Nick Leckey and Darnell Dinkins. I also want Usama Young, Pierson Prioleau, Marcus McCauley and Chris Reis in the defensive backfield. Yes, the Saints would potentially be exposed to a comeback but they can always put their starters back in without risking them during that potential comeback run.

I'm not saying we don't go for 16-0, but I'm saying the Saints have to be smarter about how they try to do it, and it can't be a guns blazing effort. No one here wants to see the Saints get 16-0 at the expense of the ultimate prize. Over the next four games I'm sure we'll see the Saints build a big lead at least a time or two, and I'm hopeful they've learned their lesson from how the game ended against New England. It's not one game at a time anymore, because they've clinched a playoff birth and they're about to clinch a first round bye. The Saints are now in the full blown marathon discussion, and some pacing would be smart.

Do you guys think I'm being too cautious? I'm sure there's some of you that are thinking 16-0 at all cost. I know you can't play worrying about injuries, but isn't there a difference between being scared and being smart?

Saints Place Jammal Brown on IR; Sign Nick Leckey

Saintsational — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 22:56:50 -0000

More photos » by Bill Haber - AP

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It didn't take very long for my concerns to prove correct. After expressing just this very morning how worried I was about the Saints health at offensive tackle, the Saints have placed their best player at the position and former Pro-Bowler , Jammal Brown, on injured reserve and ending his season. I guess his injury was worse than expected.

To make up for it the Saints re-signed lineman Nick Leckey. Welcome back Nick. Though Leckey is versatile enough to play both center and guard, he does not play the tackle position. Technically, this still leaves a very thin offensive tackle unit but perhaps the plan will be to move Carl Nicks over to tackle in case of emergency and have Nesbit fill in at guard for Nicks.

Payton was asked yesterday whether or not he would address the lack of depth at offensive tackle and said that wasn't the plan.

Do you feel you might have to make a move at offensive tackle?

Right now I don't envision any move. We'll continue to work and get these guys treated and healthy. Like a lot of players this time of year after the third game, there are some nicks but we'll keep battling.

Technically, he's right; they haven't.

Poll

Are you worried about the depth at offensive tackle?

Absolutely.

198 votes

Nah.

89 votes

I never even notice those guys.

8 votes

295 votes | Poll has closed

Camp report roundup 8/6: Offensive line's time to shine

VanRam — Thu, 06 Aug 2009 19:37:04 -0000

More photos » by Jeff Roberson - AP

The St. Louis Rams offensive line is in a much better place than it was this time last year.

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Let's dive into the day's news & observations from Thursday a.m. at the St. Louis Rams training camp.

First, an injury update.

FB Mike Karney is still out; however, he is rehabbing his ankle and riding a stationary bike on the sidelines today. He's expected back soon. I won't breathe easy until I see him smash a few defenders in a preseason game. He's a key player in the shift to a run-first offense and making Steven Jackson the centerpiece of the game plan, and if he misses any regular season time, it just makes that goal more difficult. Remember, there's a reason Jackson himself urged the team to get a fullback after last season.

G John Greco returned to the field today.

More and more, I feel like the Rams offensive line is a real strength. When the season started last season, depth was a big issue. Depth became a rather glaring issue when projected starting center Mark Setterstrom suffered a season ending injury in camp. That thrust the undersized career backup Nick Leckey into the starting role, and contributed to a weak middle which hurt the Rams running and passing game. Not this year. Setterstrom is working as the main backup center, behind free agent acquisition Jason Brown. Today's camp report from the PD cites some snap issues, but a positive report from the coaches about Setterstrom's performance. If he can get the snaps ironed out, Setterstrom's a much better backup than the players the Rams had starting last year. Setterstrom can also play guard if called upon; he's made starts at both guard spots with the Rams in the past. Combined with Greco, that gives them two solid options as backups in the middle, and there are some intriguing options behind them in Roy Scheuning and undrafted rookies like Roger Allen III.

In other offensive line news, the same PD report notes that rookie OT Jason Smith is "progressing steadily" and the coaches have plenty of praise for the youngster. I'm anxious to hear reports about Alex Barron's progress on the left side. Anyone out there who has been to camp have anything to add here?

The Rams are going to have a really good offensive line this year.

One more item that's music to my ears: DE James Hall seems to have become the DL du jour. Great news, as he figures to be an important player as a member of the all rush, all the time front line.

NFC West Roundtable: Offensive Guard

John Morgan — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:12:21 -0000

More photos » by Ted S. Warren - AP

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Turf Show Times
Blogger: VanRam

Starting at left guard for the Rams is 2008's big free agent acquisition, Jacob Bell. Signed away from the Titans, Bell dealt with a hamstring injury and watched his play fade down the stretch, to the point where when combined with the Rams' undersized centers Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg the middle of the line became a real liability. Part of the problem was that Bell played at 280 lbs last season, well below his listed weight of 296 lbs. Whether that was due to the hamstring injury or poor choices in an offseason conditioning program is irrelevant now, and the team was most relieved when Bell showed up for spring minicamps at 300 lbs, thanks to the addition of a personal chef. We should all be so lucky. Bell had a solid track record with the Titans, and will benefit greatly with the addition of C Jason Brown to his right.

On the right side is Richie Incognito, who earned a reputation as a bit of meathead last year thanks to some unpopular comments and gestures directed toward Rams fans...or the lack thereof. Meathead or not, Incognito is one of the nastiest players in the game and a tough blocker. He came apart mentally last year, racking up more than his share of dumb, costly penalties as his attitude unraveled along with the team's play. The coaching change should really benefit a talented Incognito, who constantly needs a hot burning fire under his posterior. He is, arguably, the Rams best lineman.

Behind those two, the Rams have some solid depth at G. John Greco, a third round pick from the 2008 draft, did nothing to hurt his standing with the team in nine appearances last year. Greco uses his size and athleticism well, but could stand to play a little tougher. Mark Setterstrom returns this season after having missed the entire 2008 season with a knee injury. Setterstrom was pressed into starting duty late in 2006, and played well enough to earn a starting job out of camp the next year before getting hurt in week 3. Prior to the 2008 season, he was expected to compete for the starting center job before a camp injury ended his season before it began. He's reportedly at 100%, but his injury history is a huge concern. Greco and Setterstrom are the primary backups at G, and the team is very happy to have them should injury again befall the middle of the offensive line. There's also the versatile Adam Goldberg (see our OT write up), who has filled in nicely at times on the left and right over the last few seasons.

The Rams also helped themselves by signing a couple of very interesting guard prospects among this year's crop of undrafted rookie free agents. Many were surprised when Western Missouri G Roger Allen was not drafted this year. An injury that prevented him from working out at the Combine, a rare invite in the first place for a Missouri Western State player, likely contributed to that. All Mountain West Conference guard Ray Feinga, from BYU, will also be competing for a spot on the depth chart, and has looked good in the no-pad practices of spring. Hopefully, these guys give the Rams that nice to have problem of too much of a good thing.

All in all, I give the Rams a B at guard. If Bell can play to expectations, this could be one really good unit.

Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden

The Cardinals guards have the advantage of being dependable, experienced starters but the combo of Reggie Wells and Deuce Lutui don't exactly inspire a ton of confidence in the franchise's fans. Left guard Reggie Wells, quite possibility the best sixth round pick in franchise history, has started 74 games (including 48 consecutive) since being drafted in 2003 and is the type of player who does quite a bit of things well but doesn't excel in any area. Right guard Deuce Lutui, a second round pick from 2006, has been one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent years. He's started 40 games since being drafted but so far his reputation for picking up false starts and personal foul penalties far exceeds his instances of quality play. He improved during the second half of the 2008 season but if one of the 'starting five' from last year doesn't return to the starting lineup this season, it'll very likely be Lutui.

Providing depth at the guard position is a host of characters including Brandon Keith, Elton Brown, Herman Johnson and Trevor Canfield. Keith was drafted as a tackle and most expect him to end up outside eventually but he's been working behind Lutui this off season. The conspiracy theory, championed by yours truly, is that the coaching staff is hoping that Keith will take the starting job from Lutui this year before moving to one of the tackle spots in 2010. Keith, last year's seventh round pick, has drawn raves reviews since being drafted and he's got the size, strength and quickness to provide an upgrade at the position. Elton Brown has been the Cardinals top backup on the inside for several seasons and after getting no interest on the free agent market, he's back on a one year deal. Brown has competed with Lutui at right guard for two straight seasons and he has quite a few fans who think he could be just as effective, if not more, than Lutui. Herman Johnson, this year's fifth round pick, is currently working at right tackle after spending nearly his entire college career at guard. He might stay at tackle this season but if injuries strike and he's needed, I'm sure he'd slide down. Trevor Canfield, this year's seventh round pick, is primarily a guard, although he might see some time at center as well. The deck is stacked against him based on the amount of experienced depth ahead of him but some scouts had a third or fourth round grade on him coming out of Cincinnati.

Overall this group has a ton of depth and would be able to withstand one or even two significant injuries, but they don't have any one guy who stands above the rest as a really good player. Based on the starters I'd lean towards a C but when I consider all of the depth, I feel like they are much closer to a B.

San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch

Although it's probably too soon to tell, the 49ers seem to be developing a solid pair of guards. In 2008 the team selected Chilo Rachal in the second round. After sitting on the bench during the tail end of the Mike Nolan era, Rachal was promoted into the starting lineup by newly minted head coach Mike Singletary. Singletary had been impressed with Rachal in practice and decided to throw him into the fire. Rachal had plenty of problems as a rookie, but he showed enough talent to secure a starting position in 2009, barring injury.

On the other side of the line, Dave Baas has also likely secured a starting spot for 2009. The former second round pick was on the bench behind Adam Snyder, but was promoted following the firing of Mike Nolan. Baas finished the season at left guard, while Snyder moved back over to his traditional tackle role. Snyder is likely going to battle Marvel Smith for playing time as a tackle this season. However, he can easily swing over to guard if there are any injury issues. Looking ahead, he might even get another crack to start at guard after this season. Baas is a free agent and 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has made it known that he is not a fan of investing large dollar figures in starting guards (see Smiley, Justin). However, for 2009, a healthy 49ers team would seem to be set at guard.

The 49ers have some undrafted free agents in camp, but in reality the only other backup option is Tony Wragge. Wragge is an all purpose backup who can play both center and guard. He won't win a job in training camp, but will provide solid support as a backup.

Overall, I'm going to go out on a limb and give the guards a B. Why higher than the tackles and first round talent Staley? Well, a lot of this depends on how Chilo Rachal continues to develop in his second season and I'm feeling quite optimistic about it. Baas will likely be starting from the get go meaning the line will have sufficient time to develop some solid chemistry, which is big for them. Consider this like the tackle position only rounding up from B-/C+ territory. Grade: B

Seattle Seahawks
Blogger: John Morgan

Seattle has no starting guards. It instead has the field. Let’s twitterize them.

Mike Wahle: Once good and can still run block, but bad in pass-pro and broken down. Shoulder might fall off.

Rob Sims: Pec goes pop, Seahawks flop, this semi-promising guard fails to develop. Good pass-block, bad feet.

Mansfield Wrotto: Mean ass brother used to play DT and blocks like it. Tech coming, but until then: Smash.

Steve Vallos: Upside: Tom Ashworth.

Ray Willis: More valuable at tackle, but beggars can’t be choosers.

Max Unger: Oh please God yes.

The best combination for Seattle would be Sims at right and Unger at left, with Willis filling in where necessary. Unger isn’t very strong at the point, but he’s extremely skilled and employs that skill to be viciously opportunistic. He times his blocks well to upend unbalanced opponents and for someone that rarely looked strong in pass pro, he gets a good number of knockdown blocks. He is, simply, good at football. He’s also a pretty good athlete and should take well to Seattle’s zone system. Sims may or may not. He had a nasty habit of tripping over his own feet in 2007. That earned the ire of Mike Holmgren and helped earn him a bad reputation among fans. He’s very good in pass protection and at right guard maybe won’t need to be terribly agile. He could also develop, because he’s young, but boy could he have used last season, because on the move he's raw, raw, raw.

It’s a less than the sum of its parts bunch, because there’s very little stability and each has some fatal flaw that could prove their professional doom. Still, it’s a talented bunch, with better, deeper talent than you’ll find on many rosters, and that alone keeps this from being an "F". I’ll grade them "D" knowing they could gel and be better, or they could flunk in shifts, giving Seattle a revolving door of failure the holiday season through.

NFC West Position-by-Position: Guards

Fooch — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:00:20 -0000

Up to this point we've discussed quarterbacks, running backs, wide receivers, tight ends, centers and offensive tackles. Today we round out the offensive line with a look at all the guards in the division. Guard is not the easiest position to grade on the offensive line as it is just sort smushed in between the other offensive linemen. However, as I indicate in my write-up on the 49ers guards, I think the 49ers are in an excellent position for 2009. If they let Dave Baas go after this season as a free agent things may change going forward. However, these posts are about the team's status at each position in 2009. And in 2009, the potential and production at guard is looking good. The rankings list the 49ers third, but I think the top three teams in the division are actually bunched fairly close together.

1. St. Louis Rams
2. Arizona Cardinals
3. San Francisco 49ers
4. Seattle Seahawks

St. Louis Rams
Blogger: VanRam
Starting at left guard for the Rams is 2008's big free agent acquisition, Jacob Bell. Signed away from the Titans, Bell dealth with a hamstring injury and watched his play fade down the stretch, to the point where when combined with the Rams' undersized centers Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg the middle of the line became a real liability. Part of the problem was that Bell played at 280 lbs last season, well below his listed weight of 296 lbs. Whether that was due to the hamstring injury or poor choices in an offseason conditioning program is irrelevant now, and the team was most relieved when Bell showed up for spring minicamps at 300 lbs, thanks to the addition of a personal chef. We should all be so lucky. Bell had a solidtrack record with the Titans, and will benefit greatly with the addition of C Jason Brown to his right.

On the right side is Richie Incognito, who earned a reputation as a bit of meathead last year thanks to some unpopular comments and gestures directed toward Rams fans...or the lack thereof. Meathead or not, Incognito is one of the nastiest players in the game and a tough blocker. He came apart mentally last year, racking up more than his share of dumb, costly penalties as his attitude unraveled along with the team's play. The coaching change should really benefit a talented Incognito, who constantly needs a hot burning fire under his posterior. He is, arguably, the Rams best lineman.

Behind those two, the Rams have some solid depth at G. John Greco, a third round pick from the 2008 draft, did nothing to hurt his standing with the team in nine appearances last year. Greco uses his size and athleticism well, but could stand to play a little tougher. Mark Setterstrom returns this sesason after having missed the enitre 2008 season with a knee injury. Setterstrom was pressed into starting duty late in 2006, and played well enough to earn a starting job out of camp the next year before getting hurt in week 3. Prior to the 2008 season, he was expected to compete for the starting center job before a camp injury ended his season before it began. He's reportedly at 100%, but his injury history is a huge concern. Greco and Setterstrom are the primary backups at G, and the team is very happy to have them should injury again befall the middle of the offensive line. There's also the versatile Adam Goldberg (see our OT write up), who has filled in nicely at times on the left and right over the last few seasons.

The Rams also helped themselves by signing a couple of very interesting guard prospects among this year's crop of undrafted rookie free agents. Many were surprised when Western Missouri G Roger Allen was not drafted this year. An injury that prevented him from working out at the Combine, a rare invite in the first place for a Missouri Western State player, likely contributed to that. All Mountain West Conference guard Ray Feinga, from BYU, will also be competing for a spot on the depth chart, and has looked good in the no-pad practices of spring. Hopefully, these guys give the Rams that nice to have problem of too much of a good thing.

All in all, I give the Rams a B at guard. If Bell can play to expectations, this could be one really good unit.

Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden
The Cardinals guards have the advantage of being dependable, experienced starters but the combo of Reggie Wells and Deuce Lutui don't exactly inspire a ton of confidence in the franchise's fans. Left guard Reggie Wells, quite possibility the best sixth round pick in franchise history, has started 74 games (including 48 consecutive) since being drafted in 2003 and is the type of player who does quite a bit of things well but doesn't excel in any area. Right guard Deuce Lutui, a second round pick from 2006, has been one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent years. He's started 40 games since being drafted but so far his reputation for picking up false starts and personal foul penalties far exceeds his instances of quality play. He improved during the second half of the 2008 season but if one of the 'starting five' from last year doesn't return to the starting lineup this season, it'll very likely be Lutui.

Providing depth at the guard position is a host of characters including Brandon Keith, Elton Brown, Herman Johnson and Trevor Canfield. Keith was drafted as a tackle and most expect him to end up outside eventually but he's been working behind Lutui this off season. The conspiracy thoery, championed by yours truly, is that the coaching staff is hoping that Keith will take the starting job from Lutui this year before moving to one of the tackle spots in 2010. Keith, last year's seventh round pick, has drawn raves reviews since being drafted and he's got the size, strength and quickness to provide an upgrade at the position. Elton Brown has been the Cardinals top backup on the inside for several seasons and after getting no interest on the free agent market, he's back on a one year deal. Brown has competed with Lutui at right guard for two straight seasons and he has quite a few fans who think he could be just as effective, if not more, than Lutui. Herman Johnson, this year's fifth round pick, is currently working at right tackle after spending nearly his entire college career at guard. He might stay at tackle this season but if injuries strike and he's needed, I'm sure he'd slide down. Trevor Canfield, this year's seventh round pick, is primarily a guard, although he might see some time at center as well. The deck is stacked against him based on the amount of experienced depth ahead of him but some scouts had a third or fourth round grade on him coming out of Cincinnati.

Overall this group has a ton of depth and would be able to withstand one or even two significant injuries, but they don't have any one guy who stands above the rest as a really good player. Based on the starters I'd lean towards a C but when I consider all of the depth, I feel like they are much closer to a B.

San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch
Although it's probably too soon to tell, the 49ers seem to be developing a solid pair of guards. In 2008 the team selected Chilo Rachal in the second round. After sitting on the bench during the tail end of the Mike Nolan era, Rachal was promoted into the starting lineup by newly minted head coach Mike Singletary. Singletary had been impressed with Rachal in practice and decided to throw him into the fire. Rachal had plenty of problems as a rookie, but he showed enough talent to secure a starting position in 2009, barring injury.

On the other side of the line, Dave Baas has also likely secured a starting spot for 2009. The former second round pick was on the bench behind Adam Snyder, but was promoted following the firing of Mike Nolan. Baas finished the season at left guard, while Snyder moved back over to his traditional tackle role. Snyder is likely going to battle Marvel Smith for playing time as a tackle this season. However, he can easily swing over to guard if there are any injury issues. Looking ahead, he might even get another crack to start at guard after this season. Baas is a free agent and 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has made it known that he is not a fan of investing large dollar figures in starting guards (see Smiley, Justin). However, for 2009, a healthy 49ers team would seem to be set at guard.

The 49ers have some undrafted free agents in camp, but in reality the only other backup option is Tony Wragge. Wragge is an all purpose backup who can play both center and guard. He won't win a job in training camp, but will provide solid support as a backup.

Overall, I'm going to go out on a limb and give the guards a B. Why higher than the tackles and first round talent Staley? Well, a lot of this depends on how Chilo Rachal continues to develop in his second season and I'm feeling quite optimistic about it. Baas will likely be starting from the get go meaning the line will have sufficient time to develop some solid chemistry, which is big for them. Consider this like the tackle position only rounding up from B-/C+ territory. Grade: B

Seattle Seahawks
Blogger: John Morgan
Seattle has no starting guards. It instead has the field. Let’s twitterize them.

Mike Wahle: Once good and can still run block, but bad in pass-pro and broken down. Shoulder might fall off.

Rob Sims: Pec goes pop, Seahawks flop, this semi-promising guard fails to develop. Good pass-block, bad feet.

Mansfield Wrotto: Mean ass brother used to play DT and blocks like it. Tech coming, but until then: Smash.

Steve Vallos: Upside: Tom Ashworth.

Ray Willis: More valuable at tackle, but beggars can’t be choosers.

Max Unger: Oh please God yes.

The best combination for Seattle would be Sims at right and Unger at left, with Willis filling in where necessary. Unger isn’t very strong at the point, but he’s extremely skilled and employs that skill to be viciously opportunistic. He times his blocks well to upend unbalanced opponents and for someone that rarely looked strong in pass pro, he gets a good number of knockdown blocks. He is, simply, good at football. He’s also a pretty good athlete and should take well to Seattle’s zone system. Sims may or may not. He had a nasty habit of tripping over his own feet in 2007. That earned the ire of Mike Holmgren and helped earn him a bad reputation among fans. He’s very good in pass protection and at right guard maybe won’t need to be terribly agile. He could also develop, because he’s young, but boy could he have used last season, because on the move he's raw, raw, raw.

It’s a less than the sum of its parts bunch, because there’s very little stability and each has some fatal flaw that could prove their professional doom. Still, it’s a talented bunch, with better, deeper talent than you’ll find on many rosters, and that alone keeps this from being an "F". I’ll grade them "D" knowing they could gel and be better, or they could flunk in shifts, giving Seattle a revolving door of failure the holiday season through.

Poll

Who has the best starting guards in the division?

St. Louis Rams

31 votes

Arizona Cardinals

19 votes

San Francisco 49ers

163 votes

Seattle Seahawks

14 votes

227 votes | Poll has closed

NFC West Position-by-Position: Offensive Guards

Hawkwind — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:07:35 -0000

More photos » by Ross D. Franklin - AP

Arizona Cardinals guard Deuce Lutui attempts to throw the ball to a teammate during practice at Cardinals mini-camp. (AP Photo/Ross D. Franklin)

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We're still plowing through our weekly installments of position by position breakdowns of the NFC West (check out previous stories here) and today we finish our look at the big uglies. The Arizona Cardinals guards will finish up the offensive line and, as with the tackles, the starters are returning at guard and the depth behind them is, quite possibility, just as talented. How do they measure up against the rest of the NFC West though?

Arizona Cardinals

The Cardinals guards have the advantage of being dependable, experienced starters but the combo of Reggie Wells and Deuce Lutui don't exactly inspire a ton of confidence in the franchise's fans. Left guard Reggie Wells, quite possibility the best sixth round pick in franchise history, has started 74 games (including 48 consecutive) since being drafted in 2003 and is the type of player who does quite a bit of things well but doesn't excel in any area. Right guard Deuce Lutui, a second round pick from 2006, has been one of the more frustrating players to watch in recent years. He's started 40 games since being drafted but so far his reputation for picking up false starts and personal foul penalties far exceeds his instances of quality play. He improved during the second half of the 2008 season but if one of the 'starting five' from last year doesn't return to the starting lineup this season, it'll very likely be Lutui.

Providing depth at the guard position is a host of characters including Brandon Keith, Elton Brown, Herman Johnson and Trevor Canfield. Keith was drafted as a tackle and most expect him to end up outside eventually but he's been working behind Lutui this off season. The conspiracy theory, championed by yours truly, is that the coaching staff is hoping that Keith will take the starting job from Lutui this year before moving to one of the tackle spots in 2010. Keith, last year's seventh round pick, has drawn raves reviews since being drafted and he's got the size, strength and quickness to provide an upgrade at the position. Elton Brown has been the Cardinals top backup on the inside for several seasons and after getting no interest on the free agent market, he's back on a one year deal. Brown has competed with Lutui at right guard for two straight seasons and he has quite a few fans who think he could be just as effective, if not more, than Lutui. Herman Johnson, this year's fifth round pick, is currently working at right tackle after spending nearly his entire college career at guard. He might stay at tackle this season but if injuries strike and he's needed, I'm sure he'd slide down. Trevor Canfield, this year's seventh round pick, is primarily a guard, although he might see some time at center as well. The deck is stacked against him based on the amount of experienced depth ahead of him but some scouts had a third or fourth round grade on him coming out of Cincinnati.

Overall this group has a ton of depth and would be able to withstand one or even two significant injuries, but they don't have any one guy who stands above the rest as a really good player. Based on the starters I'd lean towards a C but when I consider all of the depth, I feel like they are much closer to a B.

San Francisco 49ers - Niners Nation

Although it's probably too soon to tell, the 49ers seem to be developing a solid pair of guards. In 2008 the team selected Chilo Rachal in the second round. After sitting on the bench during the tail end of the Mike Nolan era, Rachal was promoted into the starting lineup by newly minted head coach Mike Singletary. Singletary had been impressed with Rachal in practice and decided to throw him into the fire. Rachal had plenty of problems as a rookie, but he showed enough talent to secure a starting position in 2009, barring injury.

On the other side of the line, Dave Baas has also likely secured a starting spot for 2009. The former second round pick was on the bench behind Adam Snyder, but was promoted following the firing of Mike Nolan. Baas finished the season at left guard, while Snyder moved back over to his traditional tackle role. Snyder is likely going to battle Marvel Smith for playing time as a tackle this season. However, he can easily swing over to guard if there are any injury issues. Looking ahead, he might even get another crack to start at guard after this season. Baas is a free agent and 49ers GM Scot McCloughan has made it known that he is not a fan of investing large dollar figures in starting guards (see Smiley, Justin). However, for 2009, a healthy 49ers team would seem to be set at guard.

The 49ers have some undrafted free agents in camp, but in reality the only other backup option is Tony Wragge. Wragge is an all purpose backup who can play both center and guard. He won't win a job in training camp, but will provide solid support as a backup.

Overall, I'm going to go out on a limb and give the guards a B. Why higher than the tackles and first round talent Staley? Well, a lot of this depends on how Chilo Rachal continues to develop in his second season and I'm feeling quite optimistic about it. Baas will likely be starting from the get go meaning the line will have sufficient time to develop some solid chemistry, which is big for them. Consider this like the tackle position only rounding up from B-/C+ territory. Grade: B

St. Louis Rams - Turf Show Times

Starting at left guard for the Rams is 2008's big free agent acquisition, Jacob Bell. Signed away from the Titans, Bell dealt with a hamstring injury and watched his play fade down the stretch, to the point where when combined with the Rams' undersized centers Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg the middle of the line became a real liability. Part of the problem was that Bell played at 280 lbs last season, well below his listed weight of 296 lbs. Whether that was due to the hamstring injury or poor choices in an offseason conditioning program is irrelevant now, and the team was most relieved when Bell showed up for spring minicamps at 300 lbs, thanks to the addition of a personal chef. We should all be so lucky. Bell had a solid track record with the Titans, and will benefit greatly with the addition of C Jason Brown to his right.

On the right side is Richie Incognito, who earned a reputation as a bit of meat head last year thanks to some unpopular comments and gestures directed toward Rams fans...or the lack thereof. Meathead or not, Incognito is one of the nastiest players in the game and a tough blocker. He came apart mentally last year, racking up more than his share of dumb, costly penalties as his attitude unraveled along with the team's play. The coaching change should really benefit a talented Incognito, who constantly needs a hot burning fire under his posterior. He is, arguably, the Rams best lineman.

Behind those two, the Rams have some solid depth at G. John Greco, a third round pick from the 2008 draft, did nothing to hurt his standing with the team in nine appearances last year. Greco uses his size and athleticism well, but could stand to play a little tougher. Mark Setterstrom returns this season after having missed the entire 2008 season with a knee injury. Setterstrom was pressed into starting duty late in 2006, and played well enough to earn a starting job out of camp the next year before getting hurt in week 3. Prior to the 2008 season, he was expected to compete for the starting center job before a camp injury ended his season before it began. He's reportedly at 100%, but his injury history is a huge concern. Greco and Setterstrom are the primary backups at G, and the team is very happy to have them should injury again befall the middle of the offensive line. There's also the versatile Adam Goldberg (see our OT write up), who has filled in nicely at times on the left and right over the last few seasons.

The Rams also helped themselves by signing a couple of very interesting guard prospects among this year's crop of undrafted rookie free agents. Many were surprised when Western Missouri G Roger Allen was not drafted this year. An injury that prevented him from working out at the Combine, a rare invite in the first place for a Missouri Western State player, likely contributed to that. All Mountain West Conference guard Ray Feinga, from BYU, will also be competing for a spot on the depth chart, and has looked good in the no-pad practices of spring. Hopefully, these guys give the Rams that nice to have problem of too much of a good thing.

All in all, I give the Rams a B at guard. If Bell can play to expectations, this could be one really good unit.

Seattle Seahawks - Field Gulls

Seattle has no starting guards. It instead has the field. Let's twitterize them.

Mike Wahle: Once good and can still run block, but bad in pass-pro and broken down. Shoulder might fall off.

Rob Sims: Pec goes pop, Seahawks flop, this semi-promising guard fails to develop. Good pass-block, bad feet.

Mansfield Wrotto: Mean ass brother used to play DT and blocks like it. Tech coming, but until then: Smash.

Steve Vallos: Upside: Tom Ashworth.

Ray Willis: More valuable at tackle, but beggars can't be choosers.

Max Unger: Oh please God yes.

The best combination for Seattle would be Sims at right and Unger at left, with Willis filling in where necessary. Unger isn't very strong at the point, but he's extremely skilled and employs that skill to be viciously opportunistic. He times his blocks well to upend unbalanced opponents and for someone that rarely looked strong in pass pro, he gets a good number of knockdown blocks. He is, simply, good at football. He's also a pretty good athlete and should take well to Seattle's zone system. Sims may or may not. He had a nasty habit of tripping over his own feet in 2007. That earned the ire of Mike Holmgren and helped earn him a bad reputation among fans. He's very good in pass protection and at right guard maybe won't need to be terribly agile. He could also develop, because he's young, but boy could he have used last season, because on the move he's raw, raw, raw.

It's a less than the sum of its parts bunch, because there's very little stability and each has some fatal flaw that could prove their professional doom. Still, it's a talented bunch, with better, deeper talent than you'll find on many rosters, and that alone keeps this from being an "F". I'll grade them "D" knowing they could gel and be better, or they could flunk in shifts, giving Seattle a revolving door of failure the holiday season through.

The rankings were relatively easy with the only contention being the middle two slots. In the end we practically flipped a coin so consider the second and third teams in the rankings nearly interchangeable.

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Overall every team sounds like they have their own question marks and only the Rams are truly set at starter. How would you rank the Cardinals and do you agree that Keith could take the starting job from Lutui? Would that change your opinion of the position grade?

NFC West Position-by-Position: Centers

Hawkwind — Sat, 13 Jun 2009 01:00:17 -0000

We're still plowing through our weekly installments of position by position breakdowns of the NFC West (check out previous stories here) and today we start looking at the big uglies, specifically the only player who touches the ball more than the quarterback. Yes the big men in the center of every offensive line get little fanfare but today we put them in the spotlight. Lyle Sendlien headlines the center of the Arizona Cardinals offensive line but how does the rest of the division stand and how would the teams rank?

Arizona Cardinals

The Cardinals opened training camp last year with what most assumed to be a decent veteran starter at center and the 'center of the future' as his primary backup. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the veteran starting center, Al Johnson, never recovered from off season surgery and was placed on IR in early September. That move pushed young Lyle Sendlein, an undrafted second year player, into the starting lineup and left virtually no one to back him up. Luckily for the Cardinals, Sendlein stayed healthy, at least enough to play, all season long although most would say that his play was average at best. As with most undersized centers, Sendlein excelled at getting to the next level and picking up linebackers but he struggled with facing larger nose tackles either in the running game or passing game. Of course we know now that he played most of the season with a bum shoulder that required surgery in the off season but questions still remained about his future as a starter.

Head coach Ken Whisenhunt gave Sendlein a vote of confidence shortly before the draft, saying that he had the potential to be a great center in the league, and he backed it up by not addressing the position in the draft until late in the seventh round. Sendlein enters this season as the unquestioned starter and with a surgically repaired shoulder and more strength than he's had in years, there are hopes that he'll take the next step in his third season.

The depth behind Sendlein is still shaky, at best. There are three other 'true centers' on the current roster (Ben Claxton, Donovan Raiola and Patt Ross) and their respective careers have consisted of two games during the 2005 season. Trevor Canfield, the 254th overall selection this April is capable of playing guard and he's got a chance to be the primary backup if he performs well in camp. There's a good possibility though that if Sendlein were to go down for any length of time the interior of the line would get shuffled around with right guard, Reggie Wells, sliding over to center and someone stepping into his guard spot. Basically, the Cardinals need to have Sendlein healthy if they want anything close to average performance from the center position. Overall grade: C

San Francisco 49ers - Niners Nation

Center is a tough position to grade when it comes to the 49ers. They've got a very solid guy starting in Eric Heitmann (underrated in the league), but their depth is questionable at best.

Heitmann is still on the right side of 30 and quietly has been a very impressive center for the 49ers. Last season, Mike Martz actually referred to Heitmann as the best center he's ever coached by far. That can certainly be taken with a grain of salt, but it goes to show what some folks think of him. While the team is developing young talent around him, Heitmann has been the anchor of the line. Heitmann had fallen off the radar a bit due to a broken leg late in 2006. He struggled in 2007 while recovering, but seemed to be completely recovered in 2008. While he's not the most athletic of centers, he is able to stand his ground and anchor the line.

Behind Heitmann, question marks abound. Cody Wallace is listed as the backup center but it's hard to tell if he'll amount to anything in the coming years. He's entering his second year in the league and saw no playing time his rookies season so it's hard to tell what he can provide the 49ers. As a 4th round pick, there's just not a whole lot to work with looking ahead. The 49ers signed Heitmann to an extension through 2011 and if he stays healthy, Wallace might never see more than some backup time. This preseason could be big for determining Wallace's future role.

Although not listed as a center on most depth charts at this point, guard Tony Wragge filled in for Heitmann back in late 2006 after Heitmann broke his leg. If Heitmann went down again, Wallace might get a crack at the lineup, but it wouldn't exactly surprise me to see Wragge moved back over to center. Wragge is not great by any means, but he's a serviceable backup.

Given the lack of backup options, I'm probably grading this a little high, but I am really this happy with Eric Heitmann as the 49ers center this year. Grade: B

St. Louis Rams - Turf Show Times

The Rams have struggled to find a center since age caught up to Andy McCollum during the 2006 season, and the team parted ways with the then-37-year-old center after an injury riddled 2007 campaign. Heading into 2008, Mark Setterstrom looked like an odds on favorite for the job, but injuries got to him early in camp. The undersized, overmatched duo of Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg started at center for the Rams last season, making the middle of the offensive line by far the weakest link on an already troubled offense. Half of the numerous sacks endured by Rams passers last year came through the middle, which is to say nothing about how much the run game suffered.

Under new management and coaches, the Rams made a huge splash in the free agent market, signing Ravens C Jason Brown, the most coveted offensive lineman to reach free agency this year, to a lucrative five-year, $37 million deal. Whether or not they paid too much is beside the point. The Rams desperately needed to do something at center or risk losing the investments they've made in Steven Jackson and Marc Bulger. Brown, just 26, will be a cornerstone of an up and coming offensive line that could be the best in the division, if not this year, then very soon. Not bad for a unit that was the team's biggest liability just a few months ago.

Depth is a concern, but the Rams have a good situation in regards to their middle linemen. Should Brown not be available, they can plug in the capable Mark Setterstrom, who they would have killed to have at center last year. They also have the option of sliding RG Richie Incognito over to center and replacing him with either Setterstrom or John Greco (more on those names in the guard write-up) and be just fine in the middle. Grade: A

Seattle Seahawks - Field Gulls

Seattle gets a "B". Chris Spencer is decent to average but has good potential and the team drafted Max Unger, so there's further good potential and exceptional depth.

Seattle selected Chris Spencer with the 26th overall pick in the 2005 draft. He was just the thirteenth center selected in the first round since the merger. Spencer was a great athlete and considered a safe pick. Fans envisioned a future star. Upon further inspection, that was an unreasonable expectation. Of the sixteen centers since 1970 selected in the first round, only three were ever elected to a Pro Bowl and only one was elected to multiple Pro Bowls: Don Mosebar.

Instead, investing in a first round center is investing in a starting center. Only one of the thirteen was a true bust, Robert Shaw, and Shaw blew out his knee and was forced into retirement. That's what Chris Spencer is, a starting center. He started 29 games in 2006 and 2007 after apprenticing under Robbie Tobeck, and was shut down in 2008 only after the season was lost. He's a steady center that shows flashes of great athleticism and physical dominance, but hasn't developed into a consistent or technically sound blocker. His footwork is unrefined, though he's improved enough to not trip over himself. Spencer is derided for a few reasons. Mike Holmgren was critical of his play. He reportedly was slow to pick up line calls. He is wont to the big gaffe. Finally, he's not Robbie Tobeck, and the memory of Tobeck has grown well beyond the man. Spencer is physically gifted. He's a former record setting power-lifter and rare- quick and agile for a center. So there's still chance of breakout in a big way.

Max Unger is not the opposite of Chris Spencer; he's more like the negative. Unger is not nearly as powerful and might struggle against stronger nose tackles. He's not unrefined and full of potential, but skilled and NFL-ready. He's a good athlete, but a better offensive lineman. Unger could overtake Spencer or settle in at guard. He's a natural center and has expressed his desire to play the position.

Between the two, the polished rookie and the veteran full of potential, Seattle should have an above average starting center and the best center depth in the NFL. The grade is tilted towards the starter, but accounting for Spencer's potential, Unger's potential, Spencer's standing level of play, Unger's polish and Seattle's depth at the position, this is a solid B with a chance to be better.

The only real sticking point in the rankings were between second and third so basically it's a clear cut top and bottom with a very close second and third:

St. Louis Rams
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks
Arizona Cardinals

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For the record, I think these ranking might look very different next year if Sendlien is healthy and his strength has improved as much as they're implying right now. He might very well be the key to the Cardinals offensive line being borderline average again this season or being well above average. Thoughts? How would you rank the division?

NFC West Roundtable: Center

John Morgan — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 19:19:00 -0000

More photos » by Elaine Thompson - AP

Steve Vallos and John Owens are merely exchanging long protein strings.

Browse more photos »

Turf Show Times
Blogger: VanRam

The Rams have struggled to find a center since age caught up to Andy McCollum during the 2006 season, and the team parted ways with the then-37-year-old center after an injury riddled 2007 campaign. Heading into 2008, Mark Setterstrom looked like an odds on favorite for the job, but injuries got to him early in camp. The undersized, overmatched duo of Nick Leckey and Brett Romberg started at center for the Rams last season, making the middle of the offensive line by far the weakest link on an already troubled offense. Half of the numerous sacks endured by Rams passers last year came through the middle, which is to say nothing about how much the run game suffered.

Under new management and coaches, the Rams made a huge splash in the free agent market, signing Ravens C Jason Brown, the most coveted offensive lineman to reach free agency this year, to a lucrative five-year, $37 million deal. Whether or not they paid too much is beside the point. The Rams desperately needed to do something at center or risk losing the investments they've made in Steven Jackson and Marc Bulger. Brown, just 26, will be a cornerstone of an up and coming offensive line that could be the best in the division, if not this year, then very soon. Not bad for a unit that was the team's biggest liability just a few months ago.

Depth is a concern, but the Rams have a good situation in regards to their middle linemen. Should Brown not be available, they can plug in the capable Mark Setterstrom, who they would have killed to have at center last year. They also have the option of sliding RG Richie Incognito over to center and replacing him with either Setterstrom or John Greco (more on those names in the guard write-up) and be just fine in the middle. Grade: A

San Francisco 49ers
Blogger: Fooch

Center is a tough position to grade when it comes to the 49ers. They've got a very solid guy starting in Eric Heitmann (underrated in the league), but their depth is questionable at best.

Heitmann is still on the right side of 30 and quietly has been a very impressive center for the 49ers. Last season, Mike Martz actually referred to Heitmann as the best center he's ever coached by far. That can certainly be taken with a grain of salt, but it goes to show what some folks think of him. While the team is developing young talent around him, Heitmann has been the anchor of the line. Heitmann had fallen off the radar a bit due to a broken leg late in 2006. He struggled in 2007 while recovering, but seemed to be completely recovered in 2008. While he's not the most athletic of centers, he is able to stand his ground and anchor the line.

Behind Heitmann, question marks abound. Cody Wallace is listed as the backup center but it's hard to tell if he'll amount to anything in the coming years. He's entering his second year in the league and saw no playing time his rookies season so it's hard to tell what he can provide the 49ers. As a 4th round pick, there's just not a whole lot to work with looking ahead. The 49ers signed Heitmann to an extension through 2011 and if he stays healthy, Wallace might never see more than some backup time. This preseason could be big for determining Wallace's future role.

Although not listed as a center on most depth charts at this point, guard Tony Wragge filled in for Heitmann back in late 2006 after Heitmann broke his leg. If Heitmann went down again, Wallace might get a crack at the lineup, but it wouldn't exactly surprise me to see Wragge moved back over to center. Wragge is not great by any means, but he's a serviceable backup.

Given the lack of backup options, I'm probably grading this a little high, but I am really this happy with Eric Heitmann as the 49ers center this year. Grade: B

Seattle Seahawks
Blogger: John Morgan

Seattle selected Chris Spencer with the 26th overall pick in the 2005 draft. He was just the thirteenth center selected in the first round since the merger. Spencer was a great athlete and considered a safe pick. Fans envisioned a future star. Upon further inspection, that was an unreasonable expectation. Of the sixteen centers since 1970 selected in the first round, only three were ever elected to a Pro Bowl and only one was elected to multiple Pro Bowls: Don Mosebar.

Instead, investing in a first round center is investing in a starting center. Only one of the thirteen was a true bust, Robert Shaw, and Shaw blew out his knee and was forced into retirement. That’s what Chris Spencer is, a starting center. He started 29 games in 2006 and 2007 after apprenticing under Robbie Tobeck, and was shut down in 2008 only after the season was lost. He’s a steady center that shows flashes of great athleticism and physical dominance, but hasn’t developed into a consistent or technically sound blocker. His footwork is unrefined, though he’s improved enough to not trip over himself. Spencer is derided for a few reasons. Mike Holmgren was critical of his play. He reportedly was slow to pick up line calls. He is wont to the big gaffe. Finally, he’s not Robbie Tobeck, and the memory of Tobeck has grown well beyond the man. Spencer is physically gifted. He’s a former record setting power-lifter and rare- quick and agile for a center. So there’s still chance of breakout in a big way.

Max Unger is not the opposite of Chris Spencer; he’s more like the negative. Unger is not nearly as powerful and might struggle against stronger nose tackles. He’s not unrefined and full of potential, but skilled and NFL-ready. He’s a good athlete, but a better offensive lineman. Unger could overtake Spencer or settle in at guard. He’s a natural center and has expressed his desire to play the position.

Between the two, the polished rookie and the veteran full of potential, Seattle should have an above average starting center and the best center depth in the NFL. The grade is tilted towards the starter, but accounting for Spencer’s potential, Unger’s potential, Spencer’s standing level of play, Unger's polish and Seattle’s depth at the position, this is a solid B with a chance to be better.

Arizona Cardinals
Blogger: cgolden

The Cardinals opened training camp last year with what most assumed to be a decent veteran starter at center and the 'center of the future' as his primary backup. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on how you look at it, the veteran starting center, Al Johnson, never recovered from off season surgery and was placed on IR in early September. That move pushed young Lyle Sendlein, an undrafted second year player, into the starting lineup and left virtually no one to back him up. Luckily for the Cardinals, Sendlein stayed healthy, at least enough to play, all season long although most would say that his play was average at best. As with most undersized centers, Sendlein excelled at getting to the next level and picking up linebackers but he struggled with facing larger nose tackles either in the running game or passing game. Of course we know now that he played most of the season with a bum shoulder that required surgery in the off season but questions still remained about his future as a starter.

Head coach Ken Whisenhunt gave Sendlein a vote of confidence shortly before the draft, saying that he had the potential to be a great center in the league, and he backed it up by not addressing the position in the draft until late in the seventh round. Sendlein enters this season as the unquestioned starter and with a surgically repaired shoulder and more strength than he's had in years, there are hopes that he'll take the next step in his third season.

The depth behind Sendlein is still shaky, at best. There are three other 'true centers' on the current roster (Ben Claxton, Donovan Raiola and Patt Ross) and their respective careers have consisted of two games during the 2005 season. Trevor Canfield, the 254th overall selection this April is capable of playing guard and he's got a chance to be the primary backup if he performs well in camp. There's a good possibility though that if Sendlein were to go down for any length of time the interior of the line would get shuffled around with right guard, Reggie Wells, sliding over to center and someone stepping into his guard spot. Basically, the Cardinals need to have Sendlein healthy if they want anything close to average performance from the center position. Overall grade: C

Addition by Subtraction or Addition by...Addition?

Saintsational — Tue, 26 May 2009 11:00:15 -0000

It's a fact that after every season, NFL teams begin the process of improving their roster during the long off-season months. These improvements can come about in two different ways: Getting rid of certain players/coaches and adding others. Most often, and rightfully so, it's the big name free agent signings or the top round draft choices that get talked about most. But after the Saints didn't re-sign Josh Bullocks and let go of Gary Gibbs this off-season, I started wondering if getting rid of a player or coach could be just as important to the betterment of a team as who they add.

We know defensive coordinator Gary Gibbs has been replaced by Gregg Williams and hope this is going to be an improvement for the Saints. If this turns out to be the case, which half of this defensive coordinator transition would factor most in the Saints defensive improvement; the absence of Gibbs or the presence of Williams? In reality, it's a combination of the two. But is it possible that one could play a larger role than the other? Perhaps Gibbs' system really was that bad and any new defensive coordinator would provide better results than what Gibbs was able to accomplish. If that was the case than I think it would be safe to assume that getting rid of Gibbs was more important than actually choosing the correct replacement, whoever that may have been. And this logic could just as easily apply to the players on the field. Anybody has got to be better than Josh Bullocks, right? Also remember that with a limited number of spots, roster re-arranging is a zero sum game. Every time the Saints sign a player, someone else has to go. Are the Saints getting rid of the right players or are they releasing a future Pro Bowler?

So let's get a little philosophical with this today. On the whole, have the Saints improved more because of the players they have added or because of the players they've gotten rid of this off-season? Are there at least specific instances where this was true this off-season? Is it even possible that getting rid of a player/coach is more important than acquiring one?

As a quick refresher and to help facilitate discussion, here is a list of some personnel that are not returning to New Orleans this season as well as some players who will be making their regular season debut with the team. This list is meant for illustration purposes only and is not making any comparisons.

Position	Former Player	New Player
Def. Coordinator	Gary Gibbs	Gregg Williams
CB	Aaron Glenn	Malcolm Jenkins
S	Kevin Kaesviharn	Darren Sharper
CB	Mike McKenzie	Jabari Greer
S	Josh Bullocks	Pierson Prioleau
TE	Mark Campbell	Darnell Dinkins, Dan Campbell
RB	Aaron Stecker	Lynell Hamilton
DT	Hollis Thomas	Rod Coleman
C	Matt Lehr	Nick Leckey
DT	Brian Young	DeMario Pressley
FB	Mike Karney	Heath Evans
DE	Josh Savage	Paul Spicer

Poll

Have the Saints added by subtracting this off-season?

Not at all

27 votes

Yes, slightly.

355 votes

Every cut they've made has been genius

233 votes

615 votes | Poll has closed

Rams making moves

VanRam — Wed, 18 Mar 2009 11:43:43 -0000

Tuesday was a busy day at Rams Park. On top of the second day of an off-season workout program that has the team together under new coach Steve Spagnuolo for the first time, the Rams brought in some new faces and hosted a visitor.

TE Billy Bajema, a free agent blocking specialist, stopped by for a free agent visit. The Rams interest in Bajema was first discussed late in February when the free agency period opened up. The Rams had bigger matters to attend to at the time. Bajema would replace recently released Anthony Becht and make the roster younger.

They also signed a couple more players who should compete for depth roles on the team, S Craig Dahl and WR Chad Lucas. Spagnuolo knows Dahl, having given the undrafted rookie some playing time with the Giants in 2007, before losing him all of last season to a knee injury. Spags thought well enough of Dahl to resign him after the Giants waived the injured S after their Super Bowl win. Dahl should make the final roster as a backup, and probably jump ahead of Todd Johnson on the depth chart. Lucas is 6'1" 201 lbs.

The Rams need a backup center. Last year's starter, Nick Leckey, signed with the Saints yesterday. With Setterstrom resigned, the Rams now have him and Greco as the two main backups behind starting guards Bell and Incognito, quality depth which means they could always slide Richie Incognito over to center if Jason Brown can't play. Setterstrom, recall, was also taking snaps as camp began last year in order to give the Rams another option at center. Could we see that again?

Should-be Hall of Fame OT Orlando Pace, now a free agent, will visit the Ravens today. I hope like hell the guy ends up playing for a contender to finish out his great career.