SB Nation - Marvin White

Saturday Notes: Daunte Culpepper to Start on Sunday

Sean Yuille — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:08:14 -0000

Matthew Stafford is doubtful for tomorrow's game, and as a result Daunte Culpepper will start again. Culpepper has only led the Lions to one field goal in his last two starts, and with Kevin Smith done for the season and Calvin Johnson questionable, there aren't many signs that that will change against Arizona.
Speaking of Calvin, he and Louis Delmas practiced yesterday. Aaron Brown did not, however, because of a knee injury. Dennis Northcutt and Don Muhlbach also missed practice.
I have tried to avoid talking about the recent debate regarding trading Calvin Johnson, which really has come about simply because there's not much else to talk about. Well, I will talk about it once, but only to relay what Jim Schwartz and Scott Linehan think about the idea. Both pretty much sum up my thoughts on the situation.

"Yeah, um, we're in the process of trying to acquire good players, not let good players leave," coach Jim Schwartz said. "If we've learned anything from history, it's to value talent and not to discard it."

"To me, it's completely insane,'' Lions offensive coordinator Scott Linehan said. "Calvin Johnson is one of the best receivers in football and he's had to struggle through some things this year from a health standpoint, but once you've got one of those, you don't want to lose him. That's one man's opinion. I would be pretty depressed.
Listen, if another team's general manager has a few too many one night and calls up Martin Mayhew with an absolutely ridiculous offer, obviously the Lions would listen. But since that is beyond unlikely, can we please just try to move on to other topics? I know it feels like the offseason has already started, but there are plenty of other things we can talk about that are far more likely and far less infuriating than Calvin Johnson being traded.
Marvin White was fined $7,500 for a horse-collar tackle in the Ravens game.
Cliff Avril put up a new post on his blog about his and the team's struggles this season.
Another attempt to stop the sale of the Silverdome has been thrown out.

Preview: Green Bay Packers at Lions

Brandon — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 13:00:27 -0000

by Carlos Osorio - AP

The big news in Green Bay this week have been the injuries, and the big news in Detroit have been the injuries. My opinion is that while the injuries to LB Aaron Kampman and CB Al Harris are significant, they still have a good defensive unit in place. For the Lions, it seems like their offense can't function without QB Matthew Stafford and WR Calvin Johnson. Based on the fact that the Lions only had 149 yards of total offense when the teams met last month, and that Stafford and Johnson were out for that game as well, it's a fair point.

League rankings, based on yardage, from NFL.com:

Team	Run Offense	Pass Offense	Run Defense	Pass Defense
Packers	11	7	4	7
Lions	25	18	20	32

The Packers offense has been productive all season, and should have no trouble gaining yards against a struggling Lions defense (especially their patchwork secondary). While it looks like the Lions might have a shot at attacking the injured Packer pass defense, that No. 18 ranking is based on yardage and doesn't consider that the Lions have a league leading 18 INTs. And how ineffective their offense is without Johnson.

Packers run offense vs. Lions run defense: RB Ryan Grant had one of his best games of the season last week against the 49ers, go vote for him as the FedEx Ground Player of the Week, in large part because the offensive line had their best game of the season. The 49ers run defense has played very well this season, but the o-line opened big holes and controlled the line of scrimmage. The return of RT Mark Tauscher for more than just one half was part of the reason they succeeded, but everyone played better too. If C Scott Wells misses the game, it should hurt, but it might not be a big drop down to C Evan Dietrich-Smith. Since D-S has never had much playing time, it's hard to tell how well he'll play. It's not a given, but there's no reason to suspect Grant, or RB Brandon Jackson, can't have a big game.

Packers pass offense vs. Lions pass defense: QB Brady Quinn has started, and finished, 4 games this season. In those first 3 starts, he threw for a combined 499 yards, 1 TD, and 4 INTs. In his last start against the Lions, he had 304 yards and 4 TDs. Part of their problem is that they don't generate much of a pass rush, only 18 sacks in their first 10 games (and 5 against the Packers in week 6), which comes almost exclusively from their blitzing linebackers. But the bigger problem is their patchwork secondary. They recently lost SS Marquand Manuel and CB Jack Williams for the season, and S Kalvin Pearson and S Ko Simpson should miss the Thanksgiving game too. Rookie 2nd round pick FS Louis Delmas has had a good season, and free agent signing CB Phillip Buchanon has managed to keep his starting job. But veteran CB Anthony Henry had been benched the past few weeks (he might be the nickel CB on Thursday) and journeyman CB William James is probably the other starter. My best guess is that journeyman S Marvin White, who did start 10 games for the Bengals in 2007, will probably be the other starting safety. When it's a challenge for me to figure out who's starting in the Lions secondary, that's the definition of patchwork. And QB Aaron Rodgers has never thrown for under 300 yards in 3 career games against the Lions.

Lions run offense vs. Packers run defense: The Packers run defense has been exceptional this season, and the Lions aren't running the ball. As a team, the Lions are averaging 3.9 yards/carry, but they rarely call for a run (it's only been called on approximately 40% of their plays this season). The injuries to Kampman and Harris shouldn't effect the run defense.

Lions pass defense vs. Packers pass defense. There are so many unknowns. Will Calvin Johnson play? Does QB Daunte Culpepper have anything left? Will the loss of Kampman and Harris give the Lions an opening to attack? The Packers had a great pass rush against QB Tony Romo two weeks ago without Kampman, but one game is a small sample size. The pass defense was very good during Harris's absence last season with a spleen injury. The Lions won't repeat last Sunday's dominant performance against the Browns, but they could be anywhere from decent to awful in this game. Culpepper had 282 yards passing and 1 TD in week 5 against the Steelers, and he could approach those numbers again.

X-Factor - Special Teams: The Packers awful special teams unit moved up to No. 31 overall, according to Football Outsiders, due to the unbelievably bad Steeler kick coverage, but the Packers are still very bad. However, this isn't an area the Lions can exploit much because their own special teams unit stinks, ranked No. 29 overall by FO. And the Lions top kick returner, WR Derrick Williams, is battling a hip injury.

Though the Lions were shut out in Lambeau last month, they've been scoring between 10 to 20 points/game at home (Browns game excepted), while the Packers have been scoring 26 to 31 points/game (Cowboys game excepted) over their past 6 games. Packers 31, Lions 17.

Matthew Stafford, Calvin Johnson Miss Practice

Sean Yuille — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:11:29 -0000

More photos » by Carlos Osorio - AP

27 days ago: In this photo taken on Sunday, Nov. 22, 2009, Detroit Lions quarterback Matthew Stafford runs off the field after beating the Cleveland Browns 38-37 in an NFL football game Browns in Detroit. Stafford dislocated left shoulder in the closing moments of Sunday's win. (AP Photo/Carlos Osorio

Browse more photos »

Both Matthew Stafford and Calvin Johnson missed practice on Tuesday, and it looks like the chances of either playing against the Packers on Thanksgiving are slim. Stafford's shoulder, though it is feeling a bit better, doesn't seem to be very close to returning to full strength, or at least healing enough to the point where he could play on Thursday. As for Calvin Johnson, he has a knee and hand issue, and it doesn't look like he will play unless both injuries suddenly heal in the next day or so.

Also missing practice on Tuesday for the Lions were Dewayne White, Ernie Sims, Kalvin Pearson, and Ko Simpson. Simpson is for sure out on Thursday and might even be out for the season with a knee injury. The Lions are waiting to see if he will need to be placed on injured reserve, and I imagine a decision will be made after the game on Thursday. Replacing Simpson in the lineup this week will likely be Marvin White, though Anthony Henry could also be in the mix to start.

One thing is for sure: Thanksgiving couldn't have come at a worse time for the Lions. It figures that the Lions' one short week of the year would follow a game in which Matthew Stafford, Calvin Johnson, and a few others got hurt. Had the injuries happened on, say Thanksgiving, chances are Stafford and Megatron wouldn't miss any games because of the extra time off. Of course, with the way the schedule is set up, those two could very well only miss one game, but I just wish it wasn't against the Packers on national television. Here's to hoping for a Thanksgiving miracle in the form of their injuries suddenly rapidly healing or Daunte Culpepper and company getting their act together and pulling off the upset.

Tuesday Notes: Lions Activate Zack Follett, Waive Darnell Bing

Sean Yuille — Wed, 07 Oct 2009 03:57:12 -0000

The Lions have activated linebacker Zack Follett from the practice squad. Linebacker Darnell Bing was waived to make room on the roster for Follett, who is being added to the active roster mainly for his special teams skills. He flies down the field on special teams, and during the preseason he had quite a few tackles on kickoffs, so the hope is that adding him to the mix will improve a rather lackluster coverage unit.
Adam Jennings was placed on injured reserve yesterday, as the ankle injury he suffered against Chicago is season-ending. To fill the opening created on the roster, the Lions claimed safety Marvin White, formerly of the Dallas Cowboys and Cincinnati Bengals.
RB Jehuu Caulcrick (of Michigan State fame), OT Isaac Sowells, OG Kurt Quarterman, DE Robert Henderson, LB Vinny Ciurciu, DB Vernon Fox, and S Todd Johnson tried out for the Lions on Tuesday.
Even if Jim Schwartz had challenged Johnny Knox's kick return for a touchdown (it appears Knox threw the ball before he reached the end zone), the Bears still would have ended up with the ball. The original thought was that the play would have been a touchback since the ball ended up in the end zone, but since Knox threw it forward, it would have simply been an illegal forward pass. The penalty would have put the Bears on the 6-yard line at worst, so in hindsight it wasn't quite as big of a deal. Still, it pisses me off that FOX Sports cut off the replay and kept the Lions from seeing if the play was worth challenging. I personally didn't even notice what happened at the time, as I turned away from the TV around the time Knox crossed midfield. I knew it was a touchdown by then and didn't want to see the rest of the play, so I didn't even realize what had happened until someone pointed it out in a FanPost earlier today.
John Clayton thinks the Lions will rest Matthew Stafford for a couple weeks since the bye week isn't too far away.
Don't expect any coaches (I'm looking at you, Stan Kwan) to be fired in the middle of the season, as it doesn't sound like Jim Schwartz rolls like that.
Cliff Avril isn't 100% just yet, but his "hamstring is getting better."
Chuck Darby spent much of the three weeks in between stints with the Lions fishing.
I don't have much to say about the Tigers other than I can't believe they choked that game away. They had so many chances to win the game or pull away, only to blow all of them and let the Twins end it in the 12th inning. I'm also extremely pissed off at the umpire for not realizing Brandon Inge got hit, costing the Tigers a run, but Detroit didn't deserve to win. They choked away the entire season over the last few weeks, and really I think it's time for a change at manager. Sure, there are many problems with this team, from the hitting to the pitchers to the management, but this entire organization needs some changes, starting with replacing Jim Leyland.

The VRR: The Cowboys' Regular Season is Right Around the Corner

Aaron Novinger — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 17:33:15 -0000

More photos » by John Russell - AP

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers and quarterback Byron Leftwich will host the Dallas Cowboys to open the 2009 NFL regular season.

Browse more photos »

We have been waiting for this week for a long time. With preseason over and the 53-man roster set, it is time to focus on the regular season.

After missing out on the playoffs last year, it may be difficult not to be curious about what the season has in store for the 2009 version of the Dallas Cowboys. SAEN's Tom Orsborn debates whether or not the Cowboys are a playoff-caliber team.

The Cowboys aren’t the only NFC East team with issues. The Eagles lack a cohesive offensive line, the Giants lack a dynamic receiver, and the Redskins lack a quarterback they can believe in. But only Dallas has a well-earned reputation for folding when it counts most. Another brutal December schedule looms, and there’s no evidence the Cowboys will deal with it in championship fashion.

Let's just take it one game at a time, shall we?

This Sunday, when the Cowboys take on Tampa Bay, the Buccaneers will be starting Byron Leftwich at quarterback. Because the team traded Luke McCown to the Jaguars on Saturday, first-round pick Josh Freeman will be the team's immediate backup to Leftwich.

"We are married to him," Morris said Sunday. "Everything we do around that position, around this team, around this organization, around the Tampa Bay area ... when we clean the street on MacDill, it's going to be around Freeman."

Freeman will be one injury by Leftwich away from taking over the Bucs' offense, even though he showed he needs considerably more experience before he's anywhere near ready to see regular season action.

More VRR after the jump.

Here is how the Bucs' depth chart currently stands.

Vic Carucci lists the Bucs as one of his five teams that have reason to panic.

The defense is very young, and its inexperience has shown during the preseason. One player it needs to be able to count on is cornerback Aqib Talib, but his off-field issues are cause for concern. His most recent incident was an arrest for allegedly assaulting a cab driver.

Rich Gannon weighs in on the preseason firing of coordinators.

"I think it's embarrassment to an organization," Gannon said. "You're supposed to be ready for the opener, and you're making critical changes to your staff. ... A coordinator has to get all the coaches on the same page, and the time isn't there now to do that."

For you number-crunching folks, Larry Acker breaks down the Cowboys' upcoming opponents vs. those from last year. Pretty interesting stuff. Check it out.

When looking at all of the numbers, I come away with a couple of things. First, the Cowboys should be able to put up tons of yards and points this year. With a significant drop in average opponents’ defensive rankings, they should be able to move the ball offensively pretty well. As I said, getting back Felix Jones should help as well. Keeping Romo healthy will be the key. Second, if the Cowboys had a weakness on defense last year, it was rush defense. Obviously, with Ware bringing the heat, the pass rush was ferocious last year. But, the ‘boys could be run on, and they will be facing even better rushing offenses (on average) this year than last. The hardcore Dallas fans will know better if there are any changes that you could expect to see improvements in rush defense, but based on this analysis, it looks like there may be more rush yards given up than last year. Most likely, the Cowboys’ strategy will be to try to get early leads that will take away opponents’ run games. If they can do this, it will help their run defense.

The Cowboys were awarded their waiver claim on S Marvin White, but they had also put in claims for two other players: RB Chauncy Washington and LB Tim Shaw. Both players were released by the Jaguars.

Stephen Hodge is happy to see another Horned Frog on the Dallas roster.

Cowboys rookie linebacker Stephen Hodge sent White a text. That’s how White, who played at TCU, found out he was headed to the Cowboys. "I couldn’t be any happier," White said after arriving in D-FW. "It’s a blessing how God works. This is home, too, so the transition should be much easier for me."

[snip]

"He is a headhunter," said Hodge, a sixth-round pick whom the Cowboys placed on injured reserve Saturday. "Everybody tells me I hit hard, but he was probably the hardest hitter at TCU. ... He also has a tremendous work ethic. He just loves playing the game. ... I’m glad we got him."

Could rookie K David Buehler help the Cowboys special teams' coverage units with his shoulder pads?

Dallas took Buehler strictly for kickoffs, with reliable Nick Folk, a former Arizona Wildcat, still handling field goals. Buehler hopes to eventually have both jobs, but for now he's comfortable with a different kind of double duty, kicking off and working with other coverage units.

Dallas would prefer to pack its coverage squads with guys who make a living hitting and tackling and leave its specialist on the sideline, except for his own kickoffs. But it's not that simple.

Several rookies who were expected to contribute primarily on special teams are already hurt. One is out for the year and two more are going to miss the first month. So the luxury of having a kicker who can tackle is suddenly close to being a necessity. It also makes it easier to justify Buehler's spot on the 53-man roster.

Not only are the Patriots taking on the Isaiah Stanback-at-QB project; they have also signed CB DeAngelo Willingham, just recently released by Dallas, to their practice squad.

Apparently, Stanback is more comfortable playing quarterback.

"I tried very hard at receiver," Stanback said. "I busted my butt at receiver and did whatever was asked of me. I think I could do it, but I was never comfortable with it. Quarterback is what I've done my whole life. It's what I'm comfortable with."

Nick Eatman put together a list of former Cowboys recently released.

Marvin White is going to the Dallas Cowboys

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:56:09 -0000

The Bengals official tweet writes that former Bengals safety Marvin White was claimed by the Dallas Cowboys. While many saw his potential as a destructive hard hitting safety when he was drafted, White really never fulfilled those expectations. While he showed a terrible weakness against the pass, his inability to be a sure tackler as a safety killed his chances with the Bengals. Remember last year during the preseason game against the Packers when he drilled the wide receiver, but the receiver never went down and scored a touchdown?

White finished last year on Injured Reserve after rupturing his ACL and MCL after a 34-3 loss to the Baltimore Ravens. What was the most impressive thing in White's career with Cincinnati, was that he suffered the injury early in the game and spent three quarters playing with the injury. You have to admit, he was tough.

Oddly enough, in the end, the Bengals and Cowboys swap hard-hitting safeties that are weak in coverage. Hopefully Williams is a far surer tackler than White ever was.

If you look at the Cincinnati Bengals roster, you have to ask yourself, is this team better than 2008?

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:59:11 -0000

Relatively surprised by the lack of overall reaction from other fan sites, I had hoped for an idea of what others thought about the team's 53-man roster. Maybe some expected the look we received Saturday afternoon, thus electing to play off the analysis. Others could be sitting by, waiting for the practice squad announcement, as well as any changes after the Bengals make claims on the waiver wire; as well as possibly signing veterans; not that the practice squad has anything to do with the 53-man roster the Bengals will have heading into the regular season. And then maybe some are simply too disgusted to logically differentiate how the Bengals look this year, compared to last year, that led to a 4-11-1 season.

I've often chalked up last year as a season in which the Karma gods said, "it's your turn" to have a bunch of things happen that you won't recover from -- such as losing the starting quarterback, a disgruntled receiver, over 20 guys on IR (many of whom were starters), aging players where their body's are breaking down, etc. I know. It's an excuse. Excuses don't change the fact the Bengals started last year 0-8 and finished with the worst ranked offense in the league (note: we had a better record than Cleveland, so that's cool). That also doesn't mean the Karma gods won't point at us again in 2009. Perhaps it's our turn again. Carson Palmer goes down, the offensive line continues to struggle and the rushing offense becomes the biggest disappointment after high expectations. The defense has to bail us out, and historically speaking, that's not something we're capable of believing. Then again, if you believe in balance, all the went wrong last year, is righted. Palmer retains his title as the God of Golden Arms, the rebuilt offensive line comes through and Cedric Benson resumes what he did in the final three games last year -- averaging 154 yards from the line of scrimmage per game. Oh, and last year's 12th ranked defense with added personnel, makes a run at the top ten. Hey, anything could happen, right? After all, the Bengals are playing a much weaker schedule than they were in 2008. And in the division, during the past two even numbered seasons, the Baltimore Ravens struggled (6-10 in 2005, 5-11 in 2007) and the season after winning the Super Bowl in 2005, the Pittsburgh Steelers missed the playoffs. We can only hope for trends.

Will the Bengals make a run this year? That, like most things in life, is totally unpredictable. And no one predicted that quarterback Carson Palmer would miss 12 games in 2008. However, I believe that the Bengals will be far better this year than 2008. You can see that if you take a position by position look at the roster.

Quarterback - Saying that Palmer is returning assumes he won't get hurt again in 2009. And I won't say that durability issues are starting to become worrisome with our starting quarterback. The fact is, injury forced him to miss 75% of the regular season last year and this year's preseason (though mostly out of caution and additional time for rehabilitation during needless preseason games). The foundation of where the question is more answerable, points towards the team's backup quarterback. If Palmer goes down again, do you believe J.T. O'Sullivan is a better passer than Ryan Fitzpatrick? Some could point to this years preseason and answer yes. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a decent performers in some regular season games. Others will point to the same collection of arguments saying that Fitzpatrick had a good preseason in 2008 and J.T. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a disaster in some regular season games.

Running back - Let me remind you of last year. Chris Perry and Rudi Johnson had decent offseasons which fooled enough people into believing that both would mimic their incredible one-two combination in 2005. Johnson was hurt through the preseason and subsequently released. Perry never recorded more than 75 yards rushing and through six games in which he recorded 10 rushing attempts or more, he averaged three yards or more in only two games.

This is what you have to ask this year, adjusting your mindset into a comparitve analysis of where we were last year: Is Cedric Benson a better option than Chris Perry? Is Bernard Scott a better option than Kenny Watson? Is DeDe Dorsey in 2009 a better option that DeDe Dorsey in 2008? I suppose if he plays more than four games this year, that answer is yes.

Wide Receiver and Tight End . T.J. Houshmandzadeh leaves and Laveranues Coles arrives. This, to me, isn't the argument. Chad Ochocinco is far more motivated to play this year and he looks to play two combined Pro Bowl seasons in 2009. Chris Henry looks like he did his first two seasons where he recorded 15 touchdowns; along with his total life change in which you get the feeling that you can finally trust him. Even if you're asking for a comparison between two wide receivers (Houshmandzadeh and Coles) to see if the position is stronger, I believe looking at Chad and Henry's motivations clearly makes the position stronger alone.

Tight End on the other hand, is different. I do believe the position is weaker. I won't go on what we expect out of Chase Coffman, he's a rookie. We won't know until the season plays itself out. Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht going down hurts the position, because two rookies are manning the position with Daniel Coats, who benefited greatly after Kelly went on IR because he was fighting for a roster spot with Coffman as the team's third Tight End. Now Coats, having the perfect scenario of two injuries playing out to make a roster spot, is now the team's starter. This will be the second time in two seasons he became the default starter because of injury.

Offensive Line. Not only is this the most critical for the team to improve upon, it's also one of the more dramatically changed compared to the starting lineup last year against the Baltimore Ravens.

	2008	2009 *
LT	Levi Jones	Andre Whitworth
LG	Andrew Whitworth	Nate Livings
C	Eric Ghiaciuc	Kyle Cook
RG	Bobbie Williams	Bobbie Williams
RT	Stacy Andrews	Anthony Collins

* Projected

I believe while we've improved at left tackle, we've dropped at left guard; Livings is replaceable at best. I also believe it's obvious that we've improved at center, while as of right, we're kind of pushing at right tackle. However, I'm too hesitant to actually say if we're improved or worse. Apart of me wants to say we are, because of the changes in perseonnel. However, another part of me just isn't sure.

Defensive End. Oddly enough, this position holds the same personnel this year as it did last year with one exception; Michael Johnson, who did not record a single sack during the preseason. In fact, this group only recorded two sacks in four preseason games; Robert Geathers sacked Tom Brady and Frostee Rucker had a sack, forced fumble and fumble recover.

This is where I believe we improved (albeit only slightly). Antwan Odom entered last year with a bum ankle, having been carted off at the start of Training Camp when he suffered the injury. He missed four games in the season and recorded three sacks on the first year of a well-paid contract. During the offseason, he gained bulk without losing the speed. Geathers looked great in the preseason, aggressively fighting blockers against the run and pass. I believe he's the best overall defensive end on the roster. Fanene has always been solid and can play both end and tackle. The biggest chance that the Bengals took was holding onto Rucker for one more season. It's not that he lacks talent; he just lacks the ability to stay healthy.

Defensive Tackle. John Thornton went into semi-retirement after this year, Jason Shirley converted to an offensive linemen and Michael Myers wasn't re-signed. The Bengals responded by replacing all of them with Tank Johnson. The Bengals will go into the regular season (as of this post) with three defensive tackles, likely using Rucker and Fanene in rotation. Is the position improved, worse or is it a push? I think this has everything to do with Sims, who led the team with three quarterback sacks during the preseason and led all defensive linemen with 13 total tackles. It's with my belief that he, not Tank Johnson, made a convincing argument to start opposite Domata Peko. The question though, is the position stronger than it was last year? I believe it is.

Linebackers. Think of it this way. Brandon Johnson recorded 112 tackles and Rashad Jeanty recorded 97 tackles last year. They ranked second and fourth respectively on the team. And there's a shot that neither will be starters against the Denver Broncos. Keith Rivers will retake his spot as the team's weak-side linebacker and it's evident that the Bengals coaching staff wants to start Rey Maualuga over Jeanty on the strong-side. Having two guys that combined for 209 tackles just shouts to the heavens that the Bengals strongest position, in terms of depth, is linebackers. The team's starting middle linebacker, Dhani Jones, is coming off a season in which he led the team with 165 tackles.

Compared to last year, the Bengals replaced Darryl Blackstock with Maualuga and Mays with Abdul Hodge, who led the Bengals with 18 tackles (13 solo) this preseason. Furthermore, if you watched the way Rivers played this year, he already looks far superior last year. He's quicker, stronger and far more aggressive than he was last year. He has the potential to be a multiple Pro Bowler. It's my belief that the Bengals linebackers is the strongest position on defense.

Secondary. Simeon Castille, Dexter Jackson, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch and Marvin White all have something in common; all were with the Bengals in 2008 when the season started; none are with the Bengals in 2009. Replacing those five are Geoffrey Pope, Morgan Trent, Chris Crocker, Roy Williams and Tom Nelson. I believe cornerbacks is improved, mostly because Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall look better this year than last. Morgan Trent lacked a solid pedigree with the Michigan Wolverines that makes us conclude we've improved the position with Geoffrey Pope as a filler. The Bengals could even look at upgrading the position from now until the season kicks off on the waiver wire or on free agency.

As for safety, we appear better. The questions are; is Tom Nelson better than Corey Lynch and is Roy Williams better than Marvin White? Chris Crocker is obviously an improvement, considering he could be one of the team's secondary leaders.

Special Teams. Kyle Larson. Kevin Huber. Set. Serve. Match.

The roster as it is, isn't perfect. No roster in the NFL could possibly be perfect. However, that isn't the question. The debate right now is: Is the 2009 Bengals better than the 2008 Bengals?

Poll

Simple poll question. Do you believe that the Bengals roster in 2009 is better than the roster in 2008?

Yes

490 votes

No

40 votes

530 votes | Poll has closed

Presenting the Cincinnati Bengals 53-man Roster; and immediate reaction, of course

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:30:46 -0000

Now that the cuts are announced, let's make one thing clear. It's very unlikely that this is the final 53-man roster that will kickoff the season next weekend. With players being released and waived, the Bengals, like all other 31 NFL teams can pour over available players. If they decide to put a claim on a player, they will be sixth in line. If the other fives teams decide not to claim the player that the Bengals are interested in, then that player can be signed by the Bengals.

Let's take a look at the existing roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive Ends (5)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson		Frostee Rucker
	Bernard Scott
	Brian Leonard	Defensive Tackles (3)	Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Pat Sims
			Tank Johnson
Fullbacks (1)	Jeremi Johnson
		Linebackers (6)	Keith Rivers
Tight End (3)	Daniel Coats		Dhani Jones
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
	J.P. Foschi		Rey Maualuga
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receivers (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles
	Chris Henry	Cornerbacks (5)	Johnathan Joseph
	Andre Caldwell		Leon Hall
	Jerome Simpson		David Jones
	Quan Cosby		Geoffrey Pope
			Morgan Trent
Offensive Line (10)	Andrew Whitworth
	Anthony Collins	Safeties (5)	Chris Crocker
	Bobbie Williams		Roy Williams
	Nate Livings		Chinedum Ndukwe
	Kyle Cook		Tom Nelson
	Andre Smith *		Kyries Hebert
	Jonathan Luigs
	Scott Kooistra	Special (3)	Shayne Graham
	Evan Mathis		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

* Andre Smith has a roster exemption until September 14.

Immediate Reaction and Notes

We projected that the Bengals would take eight defensive linemen; we split it up four and four. While the Bengals actually did take eight, they went heavy with defensive ends, keeping oft-injured Frostee Rucker. I actually don't have a problem with this because Rucker can make plays. The only issue with him has been durability. If he has an injury-free season, he could be a surprise player. On the other hand, he missed two preseason games this year.
Can the Bengals sustain a three-man defensive tackle rotation? Rucker and Fanene both have experience playing defensive tackle also -- maybe the biggest reason for keeping Rucker.
The more we started thinking about it, we realized the Bengals would take five backs; four of whom could be running backs.
In the weeks leading up to today, I've watched J.P. Foschi and started feeling that the Bengals might keep him around. He's a decent blocker and I feel he could be a decent third-string Tight End in the NFL. However, he could also be babysitting the position if the Bengals sign someone after all of the cuts are final. In our projections, we thought it might make the team better keeping a second fullback than a third Tight End.
Save for Marvin White, all players that were waived -- 17 in all -- are eligible for the practice squad.
Somehow, I'm not surprised that Antonio Chatman went on Injured Reserved.
I thought cutting Darryl Blackstock was somewhat of a surprise. However, he wasn't replaced. The Bengals simply took six linebackers. He would have likely been the seventh.
I was very happy with Abdul Hodge making the team and felt, as we watched preseason unfold, that he was a lock for the sixth linebacker slot.
The Cincinnati Bengals tweet that David Jones and Scott Kooistra are the only players not healthy heading into the opener.

Report: The Bengals are shopping safety Marvin White

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:54:46 -0000

Other than running back, the most unpredictable spot on the Bengals final roster is the secondary. While going through the roster coming up with our own 53-man roster, we started strong, but hit a snag. We just weren't sure what we should do with Marvin White. After the debate, we simply decided to leave him off the roster.

Apparently, the Bengals are more clear. Brad Biggs of the National Football Post writes that the Cincinnati Bengals are shopping safety Marvin White to see if they can find any trade partners before the 6PM deadline Saturday.

If this means anything, through trade or missing the cut, White isn't likely going to be with the Bengals in 2009.

Predicting the Cincinnati Bengals' 53-man roster. A look into the minds of CincyJungle writers

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:05:53 -0000

On Friday, Josh (Kirkendall), Craig (A Pragmatic Bengals Fan), Chris (IFChris) and Jake (jsl413) sat in a room and decided to take on the task filling out the 53-man roster. While initially our intended goal was based on prediction, we also set the roster with players that we think makes the team stronger. For example, our more radical idea that might not be on the mind of the Bengals brass, is to take four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends. We thought that keeping four good running backs and two good full backs would make the team far more stronger than simply adding a third tight end that's currently on the roster; or some tight end that another team released. Even if Dorsey is the fourth running back, he's a strong contributor on special teams. So he makes the team stronger, in our minds. Anyway.

Let's get right to it. Here's our 53-man roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive End (4)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson
	Bernard Scott	Defensive Tackle (4)	Pat Sims
	Brian Leonard		Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Tank Johnson
			Langston Moore
Fullbacks (2)	Jeremi Johnson
	Fui Vakapuna	Linebackers (7)	Keith Rivers
			Dhani Jones
Tight Ends (2)	Daniel Coats		Rey Maualuga
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receiver (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles		Darryl Blackstock
	Chris Henry
	Andre Caldwell	Secondary (9)	Johnathan Joseph
	Jerome Simpson		Leon Hall
	Quan Cosby		Chris Crocker
			Chinedum Ndukwe
Offensive Line (9)	Andrew Whitworth		Roy Williams
	Bobbie Williams		Kyries Hebert
	Nate Livings		Tom Nelson
	Kyle Cook		Morgan Trent
	Anthony Collins		David Jones
	Andre Smith
	Scott Kooistra	Special Teams (3)	Shayne Graham
	Jonathan Luigs		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

There's several notable players missing. For example, after some debate, we elected to keep Jason Shirley off the roster, thinking he could be a Marvin Lewis project; which could force him on the practice squad if he clears waivers. In our minds, he's just not ready yet. Marvin White missed the cut; not because of anything he did, but we felt others were surpassing him. However, we shouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. Antonio Chatman's history is too much for a roster spot and a debate broke out between keeping Cosby and Maurice Purify. And we all loved Dan Stuka.

Stay with us all day as we analyze the team's roster cuts as they come through.

Here's a transcript of our entire conversation, or round table, that shows how we came to the conclusion on our 53-man roster.

TRANSCRIPT

Josh Kirkendall: We have 75 players and 53 spots. So by the end of the day, we'll be eliminating 22 players. I know you guys agree that quarterback is relatively easy enough. So let's get to the meat and potatoes of the topic. Running back.
Craig: Wow, diving right in.
Jake: Well running back, to me, is going to be Cedric Benson, Brian Leonard, and Bernard Scott. Just a question of if they keep four. They will want to protect Scott, and they went out and traded for Leonard, so they must see something in him
Craig: I agree with Jake, but not on the order. I think it'll be Benson, Scott, and Leonard. If they keep 4, obviously DeDe Dorsey will stick. Odd man out is James Johnson.
Jake: I honestly think we'll see Scott/Leonard split 2nd string duties. They're both pretty good.
Josh: I agree. I think Cedric and Scott are locks. And Scott and Dorsey have the same skillset. So if the team goes with three running backs, then Dorsey is the odd man out. However, if they go four, then do the Bengals only keep Jeremi Johnson at full back? Many, including the coaches, have high praise with Chris Pressley.
Jake: I don't think they'll risk just keeping Johnson at FB. If they do, they'll definitely put Pressley on the practice squad.
Josh: Last year, the Bengals took three running backs and 2 fullbacks.
Craig: As much as I like Vakapuna's ceiling, you can't let go of a guy who bent a friggin' facemask. Pressley has to stay if at all possible.
Josh: Do you think there's a chance that they keep Johnson and Vakapuna, but put Pressley on the practice squad. In terms of exposure, or notoriety, more people recognize Vakapuna's name more than Pressley's.
Craig: I think Hard Knocks may make it tough to sneak Pressley through to the PS, honestly.
Josh: Good point.

(Chris wakes from his slumber)

Chris: So is Kenny Watson done?
Jake: He was cut a while ago.
Chris: (sigh)
Josh: If the Bengals go four running backs, then who is the fullback?
Chris: Fui
Craig: I think, unfortunate as it is, that JJ is the first FB on the roster. Redeemer and all.
Jake: I think Jeremi Johnson is completely capable as long as he keeps in shape. He had a couple of excellent seasons, remember.
Josh: I agree there. JJ makes the squad as the starting fullback.
Chris: From the limited stuff I've seen, I like what Fui brings.
Josh: Now, if the Bengals take three running backs, who is your backup fullback?
Craig: At this point, I think that Pressley is the second man on the roster. The coaches in the meetings said, point blank, that Pressley is the best blocker.
Josh: You've seen on Hard Knocks how much the coaches play his tough style. Didn't Mike Brown ask what a fullback does?
Chris: Wow
Jake: They love physicality. They want to compete with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
Craig: That's why I hate Johnson being around. There's no reason to not keep Fui and Pressley around. Jake hits it on the head. Pressley gives them the best chance at pancaking the linebacking corps of the AFC North.
Chris: So who's the starter?
Craig: Johnson.
Chris: Gotcha
Josh: An interesting thought is keeping Johnson and Vakapuna and sneak Pressley through Waivers for the practice squad. How many squads are looking for a FB anyway? He might not be that well known. Though I think Craig is right about Hard Knocks documenting him so much. Damned Hard Knocks.

Josh: I had an interesting thought. What if the Bengals go with four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends? And you know that Coats and Chase make the squad. It's a weakened position anyway and I don't expect signing someone that make us instantly better. Plus the offense has never really utilized the TE position.
Jake: When was the last time they carried only 2 tight ends?
Josh: Actually, they only kept two last year and in 2006.
Craig: That's actually a good though, Josh. I like that.
Jake: Interesting. Well, given how shallow it is, I guess two isn't a bad idea. They can use Andre Smith at a TE in goalline packages.
Craig: They can toss that around, if he ever gets in shape.
Chris: I was going more for fullback for Andre
Jake: No way a 350 pounder can play anywhere but on the line of scrimmage.
Craig: Again...did you see the fat guy waddle he was rocking in last week's Hard Knocks? Dude looked terrrrrible.
Josh: The thought is that you keep the running back and fullback position strong, while keeping TE status quo. The question at this point is who will be available after cut down day that the team could sign that would make the tight ends better. And does Foschi really make your squad better than, say, Dorsey and/or Pressley?
Craig: Absolutely not would be the answer to your question, Josh.
Jake: Does Pressley have the ability to learn TE?
Josh: Like a hybrid?
Jake: Yeah, like Coats. Except better.
Josh: I will make another prediction that Foschi makes the practice squad. Of the things he's shown, he's not bad. Needs some refinement; could he could be a decent third TE in this league.
Chris: I like the two tight ends and it keeps a space in off chance Utecht ever gets healthy. Which is doubtful
Josh: Utecht is out for the year. On IR.
Craig: I doubt we see him ever again.
Chris: Me too
Josh: That could depend on Coats.
Craig: I don't mind Coats, but I don't think anyone sees him as a long term answer to anything? Pressley wouldn't be a bad option as a RB/FB hybrid. How are his hands?
Josh: To be honest, I'm not sure. He didn't have a catch this preseason.
Chris: Coffman is obviously being groomed here.
Chris: Keep in mind, Kelly might be healthy next season too
Josh: I'm not sure he'll be back either. He's UFA after this year
Craig: I look for big things from Coffman, just not this year. Not early, anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly come back as a coach in some capacity.
Josh: Yea, he's a strong lockerroom presence. The team respects him alot.
Chris: If he still wants to play, I'd sign to a one-year at least
Craig: Absolutely.
Chris: Make him Chase's personal coach
Jake: Chase isn't going be anything like Kelly was though. He's not the blocking type. Although if he developed strength, that's something he could work on this year, that would be a bonus.
Josh: There's a lot of interesting thoughts here. But the question is, what do we do? Do we keep 3RB/2FB/3TE or 4 RB/1FB/3TB or 4RB/2FB/2TE? I like the latter. The 4RB/2FB/2TE.
Chris: The latter
Craig: I say 4/2/2. I think that's the best way to keep the most talent on the squad.
Jake: I'd say 4 2 2
Josh: Sweet.

Josh: So who is the second fullback? I favor Pressley. Though I believe the team will go with Vakapuna.
Craig: I really think its Pressley, which means we'll lose Fui.
Chris: If the staff says Pressley is the better blocker...
Craig: Although, check that; Mike Brown is in the equation. The coaches want Pressley, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that Mike goes with the draft pick.
Josh: I wouldn't doubt that.
Craig: So are we agreed on Vakapuna then, even reluctantly?
Chris: I want the best blocker
Josh: I'm honestly not sure.
Jake: I'd assume we keep the draft pick. Pressley to the practice squad.
Chris: Then yeah, the draft pick
Craig: If he makes it there
Josh: I think I favor Pressley, but I see the team taking Fui.
Chris: Fui is supposed to be a good pass-catcher

(Josh departs momentarily)

Craig: What are your guys' plans for the holiday weekend?
Chris: I cannot wait for tomorrow. College football overdose.
Jake: Party?
Craig: I know! I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, then I'll be at the Canfield Fair all day on Sunday. Performing in a big show Sunday night.
Chris: Yes, absolutely a party
Jake: All my friends are away.
Craig: It's all right, you'll have several college athletes to keep you company!
Chris: Beer and college football. That'll be all the friends we need.

Josh: I believe the top four wide receivers are set: Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Andre Caldwell. I think the team keeps Jerome Simpson simply because he was the team's second round pick last year. There are four wide receivers competing for that last spot. Now, do you guys believe Simpson makes the squad? If so, then who will be the sixth? I believe Quan Cosby makes it.
Jake: I think Simpson definitely makes it. He's flashed some skills.
Craig: It's down to Purify or Cosby for me if Simpson stays; which I think he does also.
Jake: I didn't see enough of the game last night to make the call if Cosby makes it
Craig: Cosby didn't do much if anything last night, but neither did Purify; if I recall correctly, anyway. Again, I missed the first half.
Chris: Simpson stays.
Josh: What about Antonio Chatman? He could be a Marvin Lewis favorite, making the squad by default. Purify's only advantage is that he has more receptions than Cosby. Cosby has none on offense, by the way.
Jake: How could Chatman possibly make it at this point?
Craig: Man. Forgot about Chatman, completely.
Josh: I don't see it either.
Craig: I think I agree. Chatman has to be out.
Jake: I mean, I guess I see that he's Marvin’s boy, but man, please, no.
Josh: Then you have Freddie Brown.
Chris: He can't stay over Cosby or Purify? Or won't I guess
Craig: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, Purify for Craig. Tom Nelson makes Cosby expendable/PS candidate.
Josh: They could justify that Chatman, when healthy, is the better receiver on offense. And to be honest, I would agree. However, the durability issue makes it impossible for me to keep.
Craig: I don't see Chatman outplaying Purify at this point. Not even close. Although, when healthy, yeah. I suppose.
Chris: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, Chatman
Josh: Wow. We're totally split on this one. I predict Cosby, only because of his punt return potential. Chris has Chatman, Craig has Purify and Jake just hates Chatman.
Chris: I have Chatman because he's Marvin's boy and has experience with the team.
Jake: I don't like any of the options at number six.
Josh: I honestly can see that, Chris.
Craig: I'd like to see Cosby stick, I really would. Maybe they practice squad Purify again if Chatman doesn't stick.
Jake: He hasn't played or practiced. No way Chatman makes it
Chris: Yeah, that's true too. If not Chatman, Cosby. But Purify is damn physical for his size.
Jake: Cosby has some good special teams utility, but I don't think he has enough to stick. Bernard Scott looked great in that kick return.
Craig: I just hate to see them maybe lose Purify. The guy's a beast physically.
Chris: That's true. More so than Cosby
Josh: So it's between Cosby and Purify. Let's take a vote.
Chris: I'm changing my vote again
Craig: He made Roy Williams look like a fool in the Oklahoma.
Chris: Damn persuasive up in here
Josh: That was embarrassing as hell for Roy.
Craig: That said, first punt return for touchdown in, what, five years?
Josh: Who was also trying to cop out of the drills with Coles.
Jake: Purify is my vote.
Chris: I voted for Cosby for punt return. But the Scott point made perfect sense.
Craig: I'm so glad I'm not making this decision for the team! Don't forget Tom Nelson's 44-yard return last week either.
Josh: Alright, Purify?
Craig: The more they're going to want to use Scott in the offense the less they're going to use him in the return game, remember.
Josh: Good point, Craig.
Chris: I hate that concept
Josh: I think Scott would be kickoff return anyway, not punt return.
Jake: If they keep four running backs, Scott won't get much playing time. We think they keep 4 RB, so Scott can return kicks and play on some third downs.
Josh: Dorsey could too.
Craig: Ah! Okay. Ocho. Coles. Henry. Caldwell. Simpson. Cosby. That's my final answer.
Josh: But the issue is punt return; Scott hasn't returned a punt yet. Cosby, in the preseason, returned seven punts and Nelson got six.
Craig: Purify to the practice squad for the second year running.
Chris: I’m back on Cosby again
Josh: OK, time for final vote.
Chris: Cosby
Craig: Cosby
Jake: I think Cosby will make it. Sorry. I want Purify.
Josh: I can see why. You're right. He is a beast.
Craig: I'd be okay with Cosby, really. We have enough talent on offense that I think the 6th WR has to contribute in other ways anyway, so Cosby is the better call the more I think about it.
Josh: I just think that Cosby brings more immediate contributions. Purify isn't a returner and I highly doubt he gets any playing time with Chad, Coles, Henry and Caldwell in front.

Josh: In 2006 and 2008, the Bengals took nine offensive linemen. In 2007, they kept eight. We can assume they're keeping Andre Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Nate Livings, Anthony Collins, Andre Smith, Jonathan Luigs and Scott Kooistra. So we're left with one spot left.
Jake: Jason Shirley
Josh: OK, there's two thoughts here. We could go with eight and be done.
Craig: Well, if we do keep nine including Shirley or someone else, which position is left to suffer?
Josh: The issue with a ninth is that we could be cutting into the defensive roster -- which might not be a bad idea because they seem like the stronger of the two units.
Chris: Or keep eight and keep Purify. But yeah, I see the point about not hurting the defense as bad
Josh: And I disagree with Shirley. While he's literally throwing guys when blocking, I just don't think he's ready to make the roster. He's the typical Marvin Lewis project guy. I think he's still eligible for the practice squad. I think Dennis Roland has a better shot.
Chris: "literally throwing guys when blocking" Is a hard talent to ignore, even if he is a little raw.
Craig: Shirley should be eligible for the practice squad, but I'd bet good money that we'd lose him in the process, especially with him being such a mauler at guard.
Josh: I agree, Chris. That's why I think they'll hope he clears waivers. It wasn't so long ago that Marvin Lewis said flatly on Hard Knocks that Shirley's last chance to make the squad at all was to convert to the offense. In reality, the question is do you want to keep a fourth guard, or a fourth tackle.
Craig: Fourth tackle, for my money. How are we looking at Andre Smith in this equation? Are we actually talking about a fifth tackle?
Josh: That's why I think Roland's the better choice right now. Think of it this way. If Smith doesn't return soon, and god forbid, Whitworth or Collins goes down, we're out of tackles.
Chris: I need a beer
Josh: Sure, Kooistra can play the position, but he's been working mostly guard too.
Craig: I agree with you, Josh. Roland is the smart choice here.
Josh: For now at least. If Shirley passes waivers and I believe he will, and then he's signed to the practice squad, that would be the best scenario for him.
Craig: I'm cool with that. I might be overestimating, but I do worry that he won't clear waivers.
Josh: We also have Evan Mathis and Andrew Crummey. Think those two have a shot?
Craig: I'd say Mathis more than Crummey.
Josh: Alright, full vote. Between Roland and Shirley.
Chris: Roland
Craig: 2. Reluctantly.
Jake: Humph. Roland, I guess. I'd like Shirley.
Josh: I think we all would, to be honest.
Chris: Yep. Tackle will win out, however
Josh: Alright. The offense is set. SWEET!

Craig: Sidebar: Any kind of wishing we could keep Swank?
Josh: He proved that franchising Graham was kind of redonkulous. I love that word.
Jake: Swank hasn't been that impressive. But he made what Josh said true
Craig: Makes me think of Koothrapali in Big Bang Theory.

Josh: Now, historically, the Bengals have taken eight defensive linemen. Mostly it's four defensive ends and four defensive tackles. Here's what I think are locks; Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko. That leaves two guys.
Craig: Rucker should be in the equation probably.
Josh: Well, you got Fanene and Rucker at defensive end. Harrington too.
Craig: Right, Fanene and Harrington the tight end.
Josh: Then you have Clinton McDonald, Langston Moore and Vernell Jenkins at DT.
Chris: I'm voting Jenkins. And you all already know that
Josh: A little UK love?
Jake: Moore's gotta make it.
Craig: Moore is a good pick too.
Chris: Absolutely
Craig: So we really need one end and one tackle. Rucker and Moore?
Josh: I think Moore is the more likely pick. Does that leave McDonald on the practice squad? As for Rucker, I think Fanene beats him out. And the only reason I say that is Rucker's durability. He has none.
Chris: True
Craig: Yeah, you're right. For some reason I always forget about Fanene.
Jake: Might be hard to deny Rucker a spot though, he has quite a bit of talent and has played well.
Craig: He's one of those guys that's just solid and makes plays.
Josh: In three seasons, Rucker has only played 16 games.
Chris: Sterling
Craig: Ouch.
Josh: I like Rucker too. I mean, the dude will catch on with easily another team.
Chris: And be healthy
Craig: And be a perennial All-Pro and eventual HoF inductee.
Chris: You got it
Josh: Cincinnati karma.
Jake: Fanene has been pretty solid though when he gets playing time.
Craig: I like Fanene for his DE/DT versatility. Similar to Bryan Robinson in that regard.
Josh: Fanene has only missed two games in the past two seasons, though he hasn't been flashy. I like his versatility too.
Craig: I think this team is at the point where they need to (at least on the defensive side of the ball) put guys in place who make plays, not guys who might make plays. This defensive unit is CLOSE.
So for his solid play and durability/versatility, my vote goes to Fanene I think.
Josh: I agree. And if Rucker stays healthy, he fits that bill. But you have to depend on the guy too.
Craig: Right. That was my primary point.
Josh: On the other hand, Harrington has two sacks this preseason.
Craig: Yeah. Crap.
Chris: That's big
Josh: Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Craig: What string was he playing against?
Josh: Not much against the first team. Not really sure if he had many first half snaps.
Craig: So that's in the equation too, kind of, sorta.
Josh: Agreed. So the question between Rucker and Fanene is health. Harrington, if he passes waivers, can be ~~the team's starting tight end and~~ join the practice squad.
Craig: So Rucker=out. Another third round pick down the tubes (3rd?). Guys? Fanene or Harrington? All considered I think it has to be Fanene.
Josh : I'm picking Fanene, only because of the question about Rucker's health.
Chris: Didn't we establish Mike Brown likes draft picks?
Craig: lol @ the TE comment. That'll never get old.
Josh: I've cried every night in my sleep after that.
Craig: So we agree that WE want Fanene. Thoughts on what will actually happen?
Josh: I actually think it'll be Fanene. He's on his second contract right now anyway. So you know the team likes him, and Jake is right, Fanene is solid.
Craig: I'm good with that, Josh.
Jake: I think Fanene will stick.
Josh : So we went with Langston Moore and Jonathan Fanene.

Josh: In respect to linebackers, the Bengals took eight in 2006, seven in 2007, and six in 2008. The locks, I think, are Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Rey Maualuga, Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson.
Craig: Yep.
Josh: I really liked Hodge during preseason and he's a special teams contributor. I think he backs up Dhani.
Jake: Hodge absolutely sticks. Simmons will be sure of it.
Craig: Right.
Chris: That's six.
Craig: So. Maxwell? In or out?
Jake: I dunno about Maxwell.
Josh: I think Blackstock makes it, if for any reason, he can play defensive end also.
Craig: I was going to say I think Blackstock sticks. His career-ending hit on Utecht has to count for something other than wasting another of my Bengals jerseys.
Josh: Then you have Dan Stuka.
Chris: I vote for him on name alone. That's just a badass name
Craig: We need to bring back Bjork.
Jake: Reminds me too much of Ditka
Josh: There's another issue we need to consider. Do we just keep six backers and 10 in the secondary? Or seven backers and 9 in the secondary.
Craig: Got to be 7 and 9, I think.
Chris: "What's your name, punk?" "Dan STUKA." "Oh, damn. Don't mess w/that guy." "Damn right.
Chris: I'm sorry
Josh: It's a sweet football name. Then the seventh linebacker has to be Blackstock.
Craig: Absolutely. Blackstock at #7 backer.
Chris: Yes, Blackstock
Josh: Alright, we'll go with Blackstock.

Craig: So we're on to the secondary then?
Josh : Now this will be the toughest one of the night -- and the last.
Craig: Josh, locks?
Chris: (whispers) Dan Stuka will be watching us. Remember that.
Josh: I got Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Chinedum Ndukwe and Roy Williams. Now, I think Tom Nelson is a close lock -- like most everyone else, I loved his play.
Craig: Hall, Joseph, Jones, Crocker, Ndukwe, Williams, Nelson would be my locks. Personally.
Josh: I agree, so Nelson makes the team?
Chris: Who's that kid that made that huge sack against the Pats?
Craig: I don't see how he can't make the team. The guy's a beast.
Josh: Chris likes Nelson too.
Chris: Yeah, him
Craig: Nelson brings versatility as I think he could be a nickel corner also.
Chris: He's certainly got the speed for nickel
Josh: I question David Jones. Is the talent in the secondary deep enough? Is Jones worth keeping, though he didn't make any preseason games?
Craig: It depends on how confident they are with either trying Nelson there or Geoff Pope.
Josh: No thanks on Pope.
Craig: Just sayin'.
Josh: Kyries Hebert is another I like that doesn't much notice, because his strength is his special teams play.
Craig: I'm glad Fletcher is already gone so we don't have to factor him in.
Josh: No doubt
Craig: Yeah, Hebert's got to stay. Led in teams tackles last year, didn't he?
Josh: Yea. We're up to seven. What about Morgan Trent? We need to start looking at cornerbacks. We've listed five safeties already.
Craig: Okay. I think Trent sticks.
Josh: Trent makes the team. You agree?
Chris: Absolutely. Haven't seen much, but what I've read.
Josh : He hasn't been bad.
Craig: So one more. Lynch? That's another safety so maybe Lynch goes.
Josh: I don't know. This is where I think David Jones squeezes in.
Craig: Yeah, more than likely.
Josh: You could also go Pope or Rico Murray.
Craig: Jones improved over last season. No. Jones is better than either of them. Practice squad Pope again, he may be ready next year.
Josh: Jones was placed on the depth chart as the third CB at the start of training camp. Do we reluctantly agree with Jones, or do you guys think we should go with six safeties and keep Lynch?
Craig: That probably depends on Nelson's cover skills.
Chris: Three cornerbacks?
Craig: I wouldn't mind keeping Lynch around, but we definitely need another corner.
Josh: What about Marvin White. We're completely excluding him.
Craig: I'm getting a headache.
Josh: We could swap out Hebert for White.
Craig: Crap, I didn't even realize that White wasn't on our list. I think that says enough about him, though. I think White goes.
Josh: Axe White?
Craig: How do you keep him over your number one special teams guy?
Josh: I'm just not sure where he'd fit in. It would be a numbers game. On the other hand, would the Bengals elect to keep White over Nelson?
Craig: A couple of years ago our special teams squad was decimated and it took over a year to shore it back up. I don't want to see that happen again.
Chris: Better not
Craig: White/Nelson. That's actually probably the best battle happening right now on defense.
Josh: Or, we could dump a running back for another guy in the secondary.
Craig: Dump Dorsey if we want to go that route.
Josh: Dump the oft-injured Dorsey for White. Now we're getting interesting.
Craig: For me? No question. None at all.
Chris: See ya
Craig: What will Mike Brown do, though?
Josh: Exactly.
Chris: Suck. That's what he'll do
Josh: I can see that.
Craig: Son of a gun. I'm stressing about this like we have any say in the matter right now, rubbing my temples and such.
Josh: LOL. We're on the last roster spot. Here's something else to consider. Dating back to 2006, the Bengals have always taken ten or more defensive backs.
Chris: STUKA. Sorry
Craig: So we're short unless we knock off Dorsey, which throws us back into the Dorsey/Leonard discussion. I really wish he hadn't have blocked/returned that punt.
Josh: In regards to Dorsey, I'm not sure if we should use a spot on him for blocking a punt. While it's nice, it's never a certainty. And with Dorsey's skillset, we have Scott.
Craig: I know that. You know that. Bratkowski talked on this week's Hard Knocks about him blocking the field goal two years ago.
Josh: Yea, it just goes to show how fickle the coaches are on the competition.
Craig: Right. I mean, I like a punt block and touchdown as much as the next guy, but...
Josh: On another note, think about it this time last year. You know who we were discussing? Perry, Watson, Dorsey. So you're starting to favor cutting Dorsey for a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Wow. What a difference a year makes. Yes. Yes, I am. Dorsey goes, White stays for me.
Chris: I don't see them dumping a four-year player for a 10th defensive back. Just sayin'
Josh: I think it's a valid point. Do you get rid of Dorsey, who played redonkulous this preseason, for sheer numbers in the secondary? Instead of White, we could keep Lynch. Or we could keep Pope However, here's another point. How much playing time do we really expect Dorsey to get with Cedric, Scott and Leonard in front of him.
Chris: What if Cedric goes back to sucking?
Craig: Dorsey is just going to get hurt. Again.
Chris: Maybe more than it would first seem.
Craig: Chris, that's when Scott takes over.
Chris: Every down?
Craig: Leonard will share. I'm not worried about Cedric, though.
Chris: I am.
Josh: Honestly, if Benson goes down, then I think Leonard becomes the feature back and then Dorsey would be the team's third-down back. And if Benson sucks, then Palmer throws for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. No problem.
Chris: Over Scott? Leonard.
Josh: I think Leonard has the build and style to be a feature back. Scott needs to be that change of pace guy. I would be surprised if he ever gets 15 carries this year.
Craig: LT, Josh?
Josh: You're comparing Scott to LT?
Craig: No. Just sayin'.
Chris: He's got mad skill
Josh: Hey, who knows what happens. I just don't think takes over a feature back role this year.
Craig: Okay. Does DeDe stay or go?
Chris: Stay.

Josh: Here's where we are. We have 52 players set now. We have only 9 defensive backs. The Bengals have historically taken 10 or more. We're thinking of freeing up a spot to give us a 10th, and we instinctively went right to DeDe.
Jake: I have company.
Craig: Nice.
Chris: Pics?
Josh: iPhone?

Josh: We're so close! One more... we... can... do... it... We just need to make a decision. Do we take someone out in favor of a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Okay. DeDe is long past practice squad-eligible, right? Not that it would matter, someone would snatch him up like the Colts did anyway.
Josh: You guys know that the Bengals coaches are right now talking about this.
Chris: I'm keeping Dorsey.