SB Nation - DeDe Dorsey

A lesser error doesn't justify the fact it's an error; DeDe Dorsey scores two touchdowns

Kirkendall — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 14:50:31 -0000

I typically defend Geoff Hobson more often than not. No one has answered me when I ask who works harder than him on any other NFL team website. And if you complain he tends to have a favorable spin on the Bengals, well, then duh. How many times have you gone to your boss and said, "your product stinks and you suck at nearly everything you do." Oh, oh. I almost saw a hand back there. No? You have to put things in perspective. However, I can't defend him here.

One reason the Bengals don't make a move on long snapper Brad St. Louis? His punt snaps have been solid. If they get a guy in here that can do the short snaps but struggles with the long ones, that could be more damaging because a bad punt snap can end up in a touchdown as opposed to a missed three points or one point.

I can't. I can't possibly defend him. He's a good guy. And he pumps out information quicker than any beat writer out there. But I can't defend him here. I just, I just can't. I can't justify the logic of one error weighing more than another. They just shouldn't happen. Long snap. Short snap. Under center. Alright. That's enough of that. On to more important things.

+ Watched parts of the first UFL game on Versus Thursday night. The stadium wasn't even half full and the game seemed generally sloppy, which shouldn't be surprising. This is the first game of a new league and it will take time to build a following, provided they keep appealing to NFL fans during days in which the NFL isn't playing. Former Bengals running back DeDe Dorsey scored two touchdowns, leading the Las Vegas Locomotives to a 30-17 win over the California Redwoods.

Moving on, swan.

We had brought up the topic that maybe T.J. Houshmandzadeh's departure was a good thing. I referenced an old piece in which the team had gotten tired of Chad Ochocinco and Houshmandzadeh yelling at the God of Golden Arms Carson Palmer. John Thornton tweeted us, "TJ wasn't a problem in lockeroom tho or with Carson. TJ and Carson were closer than ppl know".

Don't forget to checkout the SB Nation Fantasy football updates -- I should be making an appearance this afternoon.

A South Carolina newspaper did a feature on former Gamecock cornerback Johnathan Joseph.

Who Dey Fans hopes the Bengals better use a two-running back system. They also examined the Bengals scouting department with a clear mind that doesn't include the ramblings of tired talking points.

Chad Ochocinco "all but guaranteed a Bengals' victory in Baltimore"

"They don’t really stand a chance, realistically speaking," Ochocinco said.

Pete Prisco analyzes the first quarter of the season. About all of the mentions we got was being runner up as the surprise team of the year (Denver took the nod) and being the team on the other side of the Fluke Play.

Don Banks says that Carson Palmer and the Bengals are back, while taking note that they're one bounce away from being an undefeated 4-0.

John Erardi talks about quarterback Joe Flacco and the Ravens offense. Erardi and Joe Reedy talk about Baltimore's killer rush defense.

Since 1999, there have been only 18 games where the Ravens have allowed a 100-yard rusher (the last was Kansas City’s Larry Johnson in 2006). The Bengals have done it three times: two by Corey Dillon and one by Rudi Johnson.

The Baltimore Sun's Mike Preston, while calling the Bengals soft, predicts a two touchdown lead. This is one of the posts we'll have on file next week if the Ravens lose.

Kevin Vanvalkenburg (apparently a costar in Van Helsing), writes that the Ravens left tackle Jared Gaither is looking like a long shot to play Sunday.

Bengals come from behind in dramatic fashion to beat Pittsburgh at home

A Pragmatic Bengals Fan — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:23:48 -0000

More photos » by Ed Reinke - AP

2 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals running back Cedric Benson (32) is lifted in the air by Anthony Collins (73) after Benson scored on a 23-yard run in the second half of an NFL football game against the Pittsburgh Steelers, Sunday, Sept. 27, 2009, in Cincinnati. Cincinnati won the game 23-20. (AP Photo/Ed Reinke)

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There is a fire burning.

In the eyes of every Cincinnati Bengal suited up this Sunday afternoon, a fire burned behind those corneas showing an ironclad reserve to do something they haven't done since before Marvin Lewis and Carson Palmer wore stripes.

This was a group of 45 men and their coaches who were bent on beating the Pittsburgh Steelers at home for the first time in their Cincinnati professional football careers.

And do you know what? They did just that.

No one runs against Pittsburgh. Apparently Cedric Benson and the Bengals' offensive line didn't get the memo. Instead, the fourth quarter consisted of some terrific run blocking and what culminated in a 4.75 YPC for one Cedric Benson, including a pretty amazing 23-yard touchdown run to the left sideline in which no Steeler really had a chance to take down number 32.

As he crossed the goal line, there was a fire burning in his eyes.

Teams aren't supposed to come from behind against the Steelers to win football games on the final drive. Apparently that memo got by one Carson Palmer. He was cold, calculating and clinical in a near-perfect performance with the game on the line and the same old song playing in your speakers. James Walker wrote about Chad Ochocinco's telling of a story after the game. You see, before the first snap of that 71-yard game winning drive, in the huddle, Carson Palmer made a statement. He said "we're going for two after we score."

Not if they scored. When they scored.

They were 71 long yards away from a win or a loss, and Carson Palmer willed his team into the end zone with fourteen ticks remaining on the game clock.

I'll bet the "Palmer is overrated/Palmer is done" crowd is pretty quiet this week, as a matter of fact. You can't ask for more from your quarterback than we got out of Palmer today.

On first and goal with less than twenty seconds remaining, Palmer looked to the back of the end zone. Cool and confident that his offensive line would keep him clean again, he looked the coverage off of Andre Caldwell before firing a silver bullet into Caldwell's right shoulder pad.

The defense saw a fire burning in his eyes as he shifted his gaze to number eighty-seven and delivered a perfect strike.

Brian Leonard, once thought to be on the bubble to make the squad in favor of one DeDe Dorsey, lined up on a 4th and 10 deep in the Steelers' territory with the game on the line. He caught a pass from Palmer and headed toward to the down marker, but was hit and headed toward the ground about a yard and a half shy of the first down. Somehow defying gravity and resembling something out of The Matrix, he placed his hand to the ground and willed himself across the down marker by a good two yards before hitting the ground. He came up hurting, but none of us saw it until the ball was spiked and he headed toward the sideline.

One play later he came in and caught an easy two-point conversion to put his team up by three with :14 remaining.

You guessed it. As he caught that football both times...

There was a fire burning in his eyes.

Antwan Odom, fresh off a five-sack week placing him at the top of the NFL sack leaderboard was the first to get a hand on Roethlisberger to bring him down on 3rd down to end the Pittsburgh series prior to the Bengals' game-winning drive.

There was a fire burning in his eyes as he notched his NFL-leading eighth sack.

Jonathan Joseph (on my cue by the way, wish that happened every time I called for a turnover) stepped in front of a Ben Roethlisberger pass and returned it into the paint for the Bengals' first pick-sick of the season earlier in the 2nd half.

There was a fire burning in his eyes as he stepped across the goal line.

Chris Crocker. Jeremi Johnson. Andre Caldwell with several clutch catches including the game-winning touchdown (he's already a difference-maker, but this kid is going to be GOOD). The entire offensive line. Chad Ochocinco. Laveranues Coles with several more clutch catches throughout the course of the game (seriously, T.J. who?).

I could go on. Really, I could. But I won't.

They all had a fire burning in their eyes, willing themselves to an absolutely critical comeback win today. James Walker said it best when he said the following.

"These aren't your father's Bengals.

"Heck, these aren't even your older sibling's Bengals from a year or two ago."

He's got a point. I dare say even in 2005 after a first quarter like the one the Bengals suffered today they would have rolled over; they would have laid down.

Not this Bengals team.

They've got a fire in their eyes. They've got a tenacity that I have never seen from any Bengals team in recent memory. Who among us can recall the last time in three consecutive games to start the season that the Cincinnati Bengals had three conclusive drives to win games in the fourth quarter? Because that, ladies and gentlemen, is what we have witnessed to start this 2009 NFL football season. Only a fluke tipped pass to Brandon Stokely (which fortunately doesn't appear to have stuck with Leon Hall as I feared it would...again, mental fortitude seems to be in stronger supply than I anticipated) changes the fact that three consecutive weeks have featured a game-winning drive by your Cincinnati Bengals offense.

This football team made a very potent statement today. The next test comes Sunday when they travel to Cleveland to square up against the absolutely abysmal Cleveland Browns. Past Bengals teams would play down to the level of their competition...something tells me this Bengals team won't do that next Sunday. Let's hope I'm right in my assessment of this team's heart so far and we see them finally come out and step on someone's neck. By all rights after the confidence boost this team earned today next week's game should be firmly in hand by the end of the first quarter.

Many times I don't like to see a team run up the scoreboard. That doesn't exactly apply for me looking at next week's game. I want the Bengals to win by fifty points. I want to see them come out and absolutely demolish the Cleveland Browns and say it again, loud and clear, that this team is for real and to be reckoned with.

Then they go to visit the Baltimore Ravens (who look absolutely phenomenal and clearly are the class of the AFC North in 2009). That appears to be a different test entirely, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it, shall we?

There is a fire burning, and I sure am enjoying the warmth.

As always I remain, although pretty darn optimistically today,

A Pragmatic Bengals Fan

Previewing Cincinnati's Visit To Lambeau

Mitchell_M — Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:28:19 -0000

More photos » by David Kohl - AP

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It may have been ugly, but our beloved Packers started off the season the right way with a thrilling comeback against Chicago, 21-15. Whether you classify it as two great defensive performances or two awful offensive ones, the only important thing is that Green Bay is 1-0 in the division and tied with Minnesota for the NFC North.

This week, Green Bay has a significantly less imposing challenge in the Cincinnati Bengals. Do not take this statement as a sign of arrogance, because Cincinnati is still a dangerous team with weapons on offense and talented defenders; dangerous enough to exploit the weaknesses Green Bay exhibited on Sunday night.

Cincinnati is 0-1 after losing on a comically fluky 87 yard TD from Kyle Orton to ~~Brandon Marshall~~ ~~Leon Hall~~ Brandon Stokely. They kept Denver in check for most of the game, and Carson Palmer guided the offense on a 11-play drive ending with Cedric Benson scoring the go-ahead TD with 38 seconds left. They were one ill-tipped pass away from winning, and I'd bet they feel that they have something to prove this week.

While they still have players with character issues, terrible luck, and their less-than-stellar reputation to shake off, these Bengals are no pushovers. Let's look at the main matchups for Week 2.

CIN rushing vs. GB defense: Cedric Benson is infamous for two things: vastly underperforming his fourth-overall draft status, and the second-most notorious boating incident in the NFC North's recent history. But all that aside, he is starting out on a tenuous path to redemption with the Bengals. After coming away from his legal troubles unscathed, the Bengals signed him in Week 5 of 2008 after DeDe Dorsey went on I.R. He was eventually promoted to starter, and helped propel the Bengals to a 3-0 finish behind his 423 all-purpose yards. Benson continued to display promise against Denver with 108 all-purpose yards and a 1-yard score.

At 5'11", 225 lbs, Benson uses his size to push his way through running lanes. He is also agile enough to prevent defenders from getting a clean look at him. His speed is above-average at best, but he's refined enough between the tackles to eat up yards at a respectable pace. Backing up Benson is Brian Leonard, a former draftee of St. Louis (and a proud Rutgers product). Leonard is not as strong as Benson, but he is by far a better athlete.

Up front, Cincinnati boasts a starting line comprised of players that I have never heard of (from left to right: Anthony Collins, 6'5", 315; Bobbie Williams, 6'4", 345; Kyle Cook, 6'3", 312; Evan Mathis, 6'5", 295; Andrew Whitworth, 6'7", 335). Whitworth and Williams are the unit's best players; the other three have very little scouting information at all. However, a minor X-factor here is the recent reactivation of rookie Andre Smith, who I assure you I have never heard of. Ever. Period. Will he play after holding out for most of training camp, promptly breaking his foot after signing the deal, and getting added to the roster today? I doubt it; his conditioning is nowhere near where it should be.

As for Green Bay's defense, we got a good look at what the 3-4 can do to corrall a well above-average RB like Matt Forte (55 yards on 25 carries). Green Bay only gave up 86 yards rushing as a whole, including 5 stops behind the line. While they certainly won't maintain the outstanding 2.8 ypc allowed all season, the run defense seems to be off to a good start. Johnny Jolly, Cullen Jenkins, and Ryan Pickett were constantly disrupting the offensive line, the linebacker rotation worked like a charm, and B.J. Raji should be able to play at least a dozen snaps.

Advantage: Green Bay. There's simply too many ways for the Packers to plug running lanes against Cincinnati's lackluster offensive line.

CIN passing vs. GB defense: Carson Palmer really hasn't been the same ever since Kimo von Oelhoffen accidentally shredded his knee in 2005. While he made a full recovery and has been starting since 2006, his mobility (which was already suspect) took a nosedive. If he gets time in the pocket, Palmer can make any throw to any receiver at any time. He is outstanding at reading coverages, going through progressions, looking off safeties, and following through on throws. But the minute the pocket collapses, Palmer gets himself into trouble. This was evident in the Denver game, as Palmer was sacked 3 times, losing 26 yards, and threw two interceptions in the game. He managed to pull the team together for what could have been a winning drive, showing that he certainly has the ability to get it done. But if he doesn't look like the second coming of Drew Bledsoe, I don't know what does.

At receiver, the Bengals took a hit when T.J. Houshmandzadeh chased the money all the way to Seattle. They replaced him with the slightly underrated Laveranues Coles, and they still have Chris Henry and Chad ~~Johnson~~ Ochocinco. They also added Chase Coffman in the draft, who will be a decent receiving option at TE. Cedric Benson is able to create out of the backfield as well.

The Green Bay pass rush made life hell for Jay Cutler, forcing 4 interceptions, several more incompletions, 2 sacks, and 9 QB hits. However, Cutler was still able to find Earl Bennett, Desmond Clark, and Devin Hester for some nice completions (including Hester's TD). If Nick Collins is struggling with injury, as he was for a few series, the defense immediately becomes more passive and conservative in its playcalling. Thankfully, Collins was afflicted with cramps, which should not persist. Atari Bigby has a slightly more serious issue to deal with, but he's not exactly an adept coverage safety.

Advantage: Push. Green Bay has the talent to shut down opposing offenses, but Carson Palmer is just too good and has too many options. If the Bengals' offensive line falters, then this swings in Green Bay's favor by a wide margin.

GB rushing vs. CIN defense: On the one hand, Ryan Grant is healthy, the offensive line has a group of five established starters, and the oft-ineffective zone blocking scheme has been scaled back in favor of a more useful man-up scheme. While they certainly didn't blow anyone away with their run game, Grant exceeded my expectations with 61 yards on 16 carries, including a few 10+ yarders (one of which was called back by holding). Allen Barbre, for all his pass blocking struggles, actually shines as a run blocker, and the decision to start Jason Spitz over Scott Wells has proved to give the team more pop between the tackles.

On the other hand, the Cincinnati defense kept the Denver Broncos (usually a great running team) to 75 yards with no attempt going for more than 14 yards. The recent additions of Rey Maualuga and Roy Williams, combined with Keith Rivers' return from injury, have turned the Bengal defense into much more than just a paper tiger (lol, pun). Granted, the main reason the Broncos were so inept at rushing the ball was because Cincinnati was stacking 8 men in the box all day long, and Kyle Orton's deep ball is so erratic he literally needs help from opposing cornerbacks to complete a long throw.

Advantage: Push. If Cincinnati puts 8 men in the box, then they'll keep Green Bay under 100 yards rushing. But that would probably be a stupid thing to do, because...

GB passing vs. CIN defense: Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph are good coverage corners. Not great, but good. Chris Crocker is solid if unspectacular in pass coverage. But there's a weak link in the Bengals' secondary. A huge weak link. Two words: Roy. Williams. Roy L. Williams, to be exact, but the only thing the middle initial does is differentiate him from Roy E. Williams, because it sure doesn't help him cover receivers.

Don't get me wrong, Williams is excellent in run support. Even Troy Polamalu isn't as adept at breaking through blocks and making tackles near or behind the line of scrimmage. But he's awful in pass coverage. How bad? He needs to regularly be subbed out for Chinedum Ndukwe on passing downs. He reportedly lost nearly 25 pounds in the offseason to help improve his speed and quickness, but I don't think any amount of weight loss can make up for the massive amount of suck that has cursed Williams ever since he came into the league. I cannot wait for one of our receivers to be matched up with him on a deep route.

Their pass rush is better than advertised. Antwan Odom managed 2 sacks on Kyle Orton, with Jonathan Fanene adding another. This group isn't well known for their pressure, but they're not exactly starved for talent either; Tank Johnson and Dhani Jones are both effective at getting to the quarterback. It helps that they drafted Michael Johnson in the third round, a DE out of ~~Texas~~ Georgia Tech that Brandon may have been pining for with Green Bay's second round pick.

Green Bay struggled mightily with Chicago's pass rush, which kept them from getting anything going in the passing game until the end of the fourth quarter. Four sacks and several additional hits kept Aaron Rodgers out of his rhythm, and both Donald Driver and Jordy Nelson were struggling with drops. However, Rodgers was able to avoid any costly mistakes (discounting the safety, which was partly his fault) and showed off decent escapability when he had an opening. He made the throws he needed to make, and it came together at the end. I expect his deep ball to be much improved by Sunday.

Advantage: Green Bay. Antwan Odom is no Adewale Ogunleye, and Rodgers and company (should have) learned from his struggles against Chicago. If Cincinnati tries to stack 8 in the box, expect Rodgers' deep ball to be much better calibrated than in the opener.

Preliminary verdict: I'm not one for predictions, so I won't waste your time with picking a winner and an arbitrary final score. I can say that Green Bay matches up very well with the Bengals and, if they can force Carson Palmer into mistakes (a tall order), contain Chad Ochocinco and Cedric Benson (a slightly shorter order), and take advantage of openings in the defense (a much more reasonable expectation), the Packers are in good shape to take the win.

Poll

What outcome do you see for Week 2 vs. Cincinnatti?

Big GB win.

954 votes

Close GB win.

373 votes

Too close to call.

20 votes

Close CIN win.

102 votes

Big CIN win.

47 votes

Ochocinco will pull a stunt.

67 votes

1563 votes | Poll has closed

Bengals put DeDe Dorsey on Waivers to make room for Andre Smith

Kirkendall — Mon, 14 Sep 2009 20:00:57 -0000

More photos » by David Kohl - AP

3 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals running back DeDe Dorsey (27) is congratulated by cornerback Geoffrey Pope (24) after recovering a blocked punt and returning it for a touchdown against the Indianapolis Colts in the second half of a preseason NFL football game, Thursday, Sept. 3, 2009, in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/David Kohl)

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Here's DeDe Dorsey's schedule in a nutshell. Be the focus of Hard Knocks in a grueling roster battle with Brian Leonard. Sit around on the final cutdown day whether you're going to get cut. When you hear that make the team, you should the emotional reaction as a rusty spoon. Practice hard the next week. Don't get dressed on Sunday because carrying four active running backs would be a bit much. Then, on Monday, get waived.

The Cincinnati Bengals announced, well Tweeted on Monday, that in order to make room for Andre Smith, whose roster exemption expires at 4 PM today, that DeDe Dorsey was placed on waivers.

UPDATE: For those of you wondering if Dorsey is eligible for the team's practice squad, he isn't, as per the eligibility requirements from the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Section 4. Eligibility:
(a) The practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than two previous seasons on a Practice Squad: (i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and (ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s). An otherwise eligible player may be a practice squad player for a third season only if the Club by which he is employed that season has at least 53 players on its Active/Inactive List during the entire period of his employment.
(b) A player shall be deemed to have served on a Practice Squad in a season if he has passed the club’s physical and been a member of the club’s Practice Squad for at least three regular season or postseason games during his first two Practice Squad seasons, and for at least one regular season or postseason game during his third Practice Squad season. (A bye week counts as a game provided that the player is not terminated until after the regular season or postseason weekend in question.)

However don't be surprised if Dorsey returns. It's not unheard of that teams release/waive a guy to make room on the roster. Two years ago, the Bengals released Antonio Chatman heading into the 2007 opener against the Baltimore Ravens, anticipating more of a knock-down drag-em fight; they decided on bringing Dan Santucci back to bolster the offensive line depth. After beating the Ravens, the Bengals waived Nate Lawrie and re-signed Antonio Chatman the next day.

It was great having the Bengals on Hard Knocks; SBNation.com relaunches

Kirkendall — Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:16:16 -0000

+ Last night, SB Nation relaunched the home page, SBNation.com, which will seek to do on a national level what each SB Nation network blog already does for its team or sport: provide the most timely, engaging and highest quality fan perspective information and conversation on the web. The company's CEO tells you what to expect with the new SBNation.com site.

This will by no means touch us, redefine what we do. Everything is still the same, save for a national level homepage. Think of it as the difference between ESPN.com and the division blogs. They're different. Make sure you check SBNation.com out at some point and put it in your favorites; unless you're like me who has so many favorites, that he's not sure what half of them are anymore.

+ HBO played the fifth and final episode of Hard Knocks Wednesday night. Let me say, first and foremost, this show has been terrific. It was neat getting in-depth perspectives of the star players, as well as those competing for a job. I'm glad people outside of the Cincinnati Bengals fanbase, got a better perspective with Chad Ochocinco. What I liked the most was the coaches. Marvin Lewis showed more emotion in this show than I've ever seen him. Jonathan Hayes' interaction with Chase Coffman probably reminds everyone of their own playing days and being ripped by the coaches. Most all of the position coaches had personality and most of the show's storylines, while jumpy sometimes, worked.

John Thornton summarizes the show, and relates with the players that struggle everyday just to keep a job in the NFL. He also points out that Pressley deserved the starting fullback job because "he pancaked pretty much every guy he touched".

It was a bit tense watching players wonder if they made the team or not. Tom Nelson, DeDe Dorsey, Chris Pressley and Fui Vakapuna were the most featured. Nelson and Dorsey got congratulatory calls from Marvin Lewis. Pressley was told that the team liked him and wanted him on the practice squad -- which is a good thing, because he's one play away from making the 53-man roster if Jeremi Johnson goes down. Vakapuna made it to the stadium, sat on a cart in the garage and Lewis approached him, telling him there's just no room.

Didn't it seem like when Chad was told he can't use Twitter and UStream like he wanted to, that he acted like a crack addict told that the supply was running out. When Coach Lewis told the team in a meeting that the new social media policy the league implemented was in place, Lewis also said it was banned from the lockerroom. Chad thought it was really in regards to him:

"He should have just called me into his office and told me; it was directed at me," The Ocho said. "I understand where the league is coming from. I understand where he's coming from."

I thought the concluding episode was a proper send off. I was thrilled to have the chance to watch the Bengals in-depth like that. There were moments where I regretted seeing what I saw, but I can't tell you how awesome it was. Good job HBO.

If you look at the Cincinnati Bengals roster, you have to ask yourself, is this team better than 2008?

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:59:11 -0000

Relatively surprised by the lack of overall reaction from other fan sites, I had hoped for an idea of what others thought about the team's 53-man roster. Maybe some expected the look we received Saturday afternoon, thus electing to play off the analysis. Others could be sitting by, waiting for the practice squad announcement, as well as any changes after the Bengals make claims on the waiver wire; as well as possibly signing veterans; not that the practice squad has anything to do with the 53-man roster the Bengals will have heading into the regular season. And then maybe some are simply too disgusted to logically differentiate how the Bengals look this year, compared to last year, that led to a 4-11-1 season.

I've often chalked up last year as a season in which the Karma gods said, "it's your turn" to have a bunch of things happen that you won't recover from -- such as losing the starting quarterback, a disgruntled receiver, over 20 guys on IR (many of whom were starters), aging players where their body's are breaking down, etc. I know. It's an excuse. Excuses don't change the fact the Bengals started last year 0-8 and finished with the worst ranked offense in the league (note: we had a better record than Cleveland, so that's cool). That also doesn't mean the Karma gods won't point at us again in 2009. Perhaps it's our turn again. Carson Palmer goes down, the offensive line continues to struggle and the rushing offense becomes the biggest disappointment after high expectations. The defense has to bail us out, and historically speaking, that's not something we're capable of believing. Then again, if you believe in balance, all the went wrong last year, is righted. Palmer retains his title as the God of Golden Arms, the rebuilt offensive line comes through and Cedric Benson resumes what he did in the final three games last year -- averaging 154 yards from the line of scrimmage per game. Oh, and last year's 12th ranked defense with added personnel, makes a run at the top ten. Hey, anything could happen, right? After all, the Bengals are playing a much weaker schedule than they were in 2008. And in the division, during the past two even numbered seasons, the Baltimore Ravens struggled (6-10 in 2005, 5-11 in 2007) and the season after winning the Super Bowl in 2005, the Pittsburgh Steelers missed the playoffs. We can only hope for trends.

Will the Bengals make a run this year? That, like most things in life, is totally unpredictable. And no one predicted that quarterback Carson Palmer would miss 12 games in 2008. However, I believe that the Bengals will be far better this year than 2008. You can see that if you take a position by position look at the roster.

Quarterback - Saying that Palmer is returning assumes he won't get hurt again in 2009. And I won't say that durability issues are starting to become worrisome with our starting quarterback. The fact is, injury forced him to miss 75% of the regular season last year and this year's preseason (though mostly out of caution and additional time for rehabilitation during needless preseason games). The foundation of where the question is more answerable, points towards the team's backup quarterback. If Palmer goes down again, do you believe J.T. O'Sullivan is a better passer than Ryan Fitzpatrick? Some could point to this years preseason and answer yes. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a decent performers in some regular season games. Others will point to the same collection of arguments saying that Fitzpatrick had a good preseason in 2008 and J.T. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a disaster in some regular season games.

Running back - Let me remind you of last year. Chris Perry and Rudi Johnson had decent offseasons which fooled enough people into believing that both would mimic their incredible one-two combination in 2005. Johnson was hurt through the preseason and subsequently released. Perry never recorded more than 75 yards rushing and through six games in which he recorded 10 rushing attempts or more, he averaged three yards or more in only two games.

This is what you have to ask this year, adjusting your mindset into a comparitve analysis of where we were last year: Is Cedric Benson a better option than Chris Perry? Is Bernard Scott a better option than Kenny Watson? Is DeDe Dorsey in 2009 a better option that DeDe Dorsey in 2008? I suppose if he plays more than four games this year, that answer is yes.

Wide Receiver and Tight End . T.J. Houshmandzadeh leaves and Laveranues Coles arrives. This, to me, isn't the argument. Chad Ochocinco is far more motivated to play this year and he looks to play two combined Pro Bowl seasons in 2009. Chris Henry looks like he did his first two seasons where he recorded 15 touchdowns; along with his total life change in which you get the feeling that you can finally trust him. Even if you're asking for a comparison between two wide receivers (Houshmandzadeh and Coles) to see if the position is stronger, I believe looking at Chad and Henry's motivations clearly makes the position stronger alone.

Tight End on the other hand, is different. I do believe the position is weaker. I won't go on what we expect out of Chase Coffman, he's a rookie. We won't know until the season plays itself out. Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht going down hurts the position, because two rookies are manning the position with Daniel Coats, who benefited greatly after Kelly went on IR because he was fighting for a roster spot with Coffman as the team's third Tight End. Now Coats, having the perfect scenario of two injuries playing out to make a roster spot, is now the team's starter. This will be the second time in two seasons he became the default starter because of injury.

Offensive Line. Not only is this the most critical for the team to improve upon, it's also one of the more dramatically changed compared to the starting lineup last year against the Baltimore Ravens.

	2008	2009 *
LT	Levi Jones	Andre Whitworth
LG	Andrew Whitworth	Nate Livings
C	Eric Ghiaciuc	Kyle Cook
RG	Bobbie Williams	Bobbie Williams
RT	Stacy Andrews	Anthony Collins

* Projected

I believe while we've improved at left tackle, we've dropped at left guard; Livings is replaceable at best. I also believe it's obvious that we've improved at center, while as of right, we're kind of pushing at right tackle. However, I'm too hesitant to actually say if we're improved or worse. Apart of me wants to say we are, because of the changes in perseonnel. However, another part of me just isn't sure.

Defensive End. Oddly enough, this position holds the same personnel this year as it did last year with one exception; Michael Johnson, who did not record a single sack during the preseason. In fact, this group only recorded two sacks in four preseason games; Robert Geathers sacked Tom Brady and Frostee Rucker had a sack, forced fumble and fumble recover.

This is where I believe we improved (albeit only slightly). Antwan Odom entered last year with a bum ankle, having been carted off at the start of Training Camp when he suffered the injury. He missed four games in the season and recorded three sacks on the first year of a well-paid contract. During the offseason, he gained bulk without losing the speed. Geathers looked great in the preseason, aggressively fighting blockers against the run and pass. I believe he's the best overall defensive end on the roster. Fanene has always been solid and can play both end and tackle. The biggest chance that the Bengals took was holding onto Rucker for one more season. It's not that he lacks talent; he just lacks the ability to stay healthy.

Defensive Tackle. John Thornton went into semi-retirement after this year, Jason Shirley converted to an offensive linemen and Michael Myers wasn't re-signed. The Bengals responded by replacing all of them with Tank Johnson. The Bengals will go into the regular season (as of this post) with three defensive tackles, likely using Rucker and Fanene in rotation. Is the position improved, worse or is it a push? I think this has everything to do with Sims, who led the team with three quarterback sacks during the preseason and led all defensive linemen with 13 total tackles. It's with my belief that he, not Tank Johnson, made a convincing argument to start opposite Domata Peko. The question though, is the position stronger than it was last year? I believe it is.

Linebackers. Think of it this way. Brandon Johnson recorded 112 tackles and Rashad Jeanty recorded 97 tackles last year. They ranked second and fourth respectively on the team. And there's a shot that neither will be starters against the Denver Broncos. Keith Rivers will retake his spot as the team's weak-side linebacker and it's evident that the Bengals coaching staff wants to start Rey Maualuga over Jeanty on the strong-side. Having two guys that combined for 209 tackles just shouts to the heavens that the Bengals strongest position, in terms of depth, is linebackers. The team's starting middle linebacker, Dhani Jones, is coming off a season in which he led the team with 165 tackles.

Compared to last year, the Bengals replaced Darryl Blackstock with Maualuga and Mays with Abdul Hodge, who led the Bengals with 18 tackles (13 solo) this preseason. Furthermore, if you watched the way Rivers played this year, he already looks far superior last year. He's quicker, stronger and far more aggressive than he was last year. He has the potential to be a multiple Pro Bowler. It's my belief that the Bengals linebackers is the strongest position on defense.

Secondary. Simeon Castille, Dexter Jackson, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch and Marvin White all have something in common; all were with the Bengals in 2008 when the season started; none are with the Bengals in 2009. Replacing those five are Geoffrey Pope, Morgan Trent, Chris Crocker, Roy Williams and Tom Nelson. I believe cornerbacks is improved, mostly because Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall look better this year than last. Morgan Trent lacked a solid pedigree with the Michigan Wolverines that makes us conclude we've improved the position with Geoffrey Pope as a filler. The Bengals could even look at upgrading the position from now until the season kicks off on the waiver wire or on free agency.

As for safety, we appear better. The questions are; is Tom Nelson better than Corey Lynch and is Roy Williams better than Marvin White? Chris Crocker is obviously an improvement, considering he could be one of the team's secondary leaders.

Special Teams. Kyle Larson. Kevin Huber. Set. Serve. Match.

The roster as it is, isn't perfect. No roster in the NFL could possibly be perfect. However, that isn't the question. The debate right now is: Is the 2009 Bengals better than the 2008 Bengals?

Poll

Simple poll question. Do you believe that the Bengals roster in 2009 is better than the roster in 2008?

Yes

490 votes

No

40 votes

530 votes | Poll has closed

Presenting the Cincinnati Bengals 53-man Roster; and immediate reaction, of course

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 19:30:46 -0000

Now that the cuts are announced, let's make one thing clear. It's very unlikely that this is the final 53-man roster that will kickoff the season next weekend. With players being released and waived, the Bengals, like all other 31 NFL teams can pour over available players. If they decide to put a claim on a player, they will be sixth in line. If the other fives teams decide not to claim the player that the Bengals are interested in, then that player can be signed by the Bengals.

Let's take a look at the existing roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive Ends (5)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson		Frostee Rucker
	Bernard Scott
	Brian Leonard	Defensive Tackles (3)	Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Pat Sims
			Tank Johnson
Fullbacks (1)	Jeremi Johnson
		Linebackers (6)	Keith Rivers
Tight End (3)	Daniel Coats		Dhani Jones
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
	J.P. Foschi		Rey Maualuga
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receivers (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles
	Chris Henry	Cornerbacks (5)	Johnathan Joseph
	Andre Caldwell		Leon Hall
	Jerome Simpson		David Jones
	Quan Cosby		Geoffrey Pope
			Morgan Trent
Offensive Line (10)	Andrew Whitworth
	Anthony Collins	Safeties (5)	Chris Crocker
	Bobbie Williams		Roy Williams
	Nate Livings		Chinedum Ndukwe
	Kyle Cook		Tom Nelson
	Andre Smith *		Kyries Hebert
	Jonathan Luigs
	Scott Kooistra	Special (3)	Shayne Graham
	Evan Mathis		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

* Andre Smith has a roster exemption until September 14.

Immediate Reaction and Notes

We projected that the Bengals would take eight defensive linemen; we split it up four and four. While the Bengals actually did take eight, they went heavy with defensive ends, keeping oft-injured Frostee Rucker. I actually don't have a problem with this because Rucker can make plays. The only issue with him has been durability. If he has an injury-free season, he could be a surprise player. On the other hand, he missed two preseason games this year.
Can the Bengals sustain a three-man defensive tackle rotation? Rucker and Fanene both have experience playing defensive tackle also -- maybe the biggest reason for keeping Rucker.
The more we started thinking about it, we realized the Bengals would take five backs; four of whom could be running backs.
In the weeks leading up to today, I've watched J.P. Foschi and started feeling that the Bengals might keep him around. He's a decent blocker and I feel he could be a decent third-string Tight End in the NFL. However, he could also be babysitting the position if the Bengals sign someone after all of the cuts are final. In our projections, we thought it might make the team better keeping a second fullback than a third Tight End.
Save for Marvin White, all players that were waived -- 17 in all -- are eligible for the practice squad.
Somehow, I'm not surprised that Antonio Chatman went on Injured Reserved.
I thought cutting Darryl Blackstock was somewhat of a surprise. However, he wasn't replaced. The Bengals simply took six linebackers. He would have likely been the seventh.
I was very happy with Abdul Hodge making the team and felt, as we watched preseason unfold, that he was a lock for the sixth linebacker slot.
The Cincinnati Bengals tweet that David Jones and Scott Kooistra are the only players not healthy heading into the opener.

Predicting the Cincinnati Bengals' 53-man roster. A look into the minds of CincyJungle writers

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:05:53 -0000

On Friday, Josh (Kirkendall), Craig (A Pragmatic Bengals Fan), Chris (IFChris) and Jake (jsl413) sat in a room and decided to take on the task filling out the 53-man roster. While initially our intended goal was based on prediction, we also set the roster with players that we think makes the team stronger. For example, our more radical idea that might not be on the mind of the Bengals brass, is to take four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends. We thought that keeping four good running backs and two good full backs would make the team far more stronger than simply adding a third tight end that's currently on the roster; or some tight end that another team released. Even if Dorsey is the fourth running back, he's a strong contributor on special teams. So he makes the team stronger, in our minds. Anyway.

Let's get right to it. Here's our 53-man roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive End (4)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson
	Bernard Scott	Defensive Tackle (4)	Pat Sims
	Brian Leonard		Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Tank Johnson
			Langston Moore
Fullbacks (2)	Jeremi Johnson
	Fui Vakapuna	Linebackers (7)	Keith Rivers
			Dhani Jones
Tight Ends (2)	Daniel Coats		Rey Maualuga
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receiver (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles		Darryl Blackstock
	Chris Henry
	Andre Caldwell	Secondary (9)	Johnathan Joseph
	Jerome Simpson		Leon Hall
	Quan Cosby		Chris Crocker
			Chinedum Ndukwe
Offensive Line (9)	Andrew Whitworth		Roy Williams
	Bobbie Williams		Kyries Hebert
	Nate Livings		Tom Nelson
	Kyle Cook		Morgan Trent
	Anthony Collins		David Jones
	Andre Smith
	Scott Kooistra	Special Teams (3)	Shayne Graham
	Jonathan Luigs		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

There's several notable players missing. For example, after some debate, we elected to keep Jason Shirley off the roster, thinking he could be a Marvin Lewis project; which could force him on the practice squad if he clears waivers. In our minds, he's just not ready yet. Marvin White missed the cut; not because of anything he did, but we felt others were surpassing him. However, we shouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. Antonio Chatman's history is too much for a roster spot and a debate broke out between keeping Cosby and Maurice Purify. And we all loved Dan Stuka.

Stay with us all day as we analyze the team's roster cuts as they come through.

Here's a transcript of our entire conversation, or round table, that shows how we came to the conclusion on our 53-man roster.

TRANSCRIPT

Josh Kirkendall: We have 75 players and 53 spots. So by the end of the day, we'll be eliminating 22 players. I know you guys agree that quarterback is relatively easy enough. So let's get to the meat and potatoes of the topic. Running back.
Craig: Wow, diving right in.
Jake: Well running back, to me, is going to be Cedric Benson, Brian Leonard, and Bernard Scott. Just a question of if they keep four. They will want to protect Scott, and they went out and traded for Leonard, so they must see something in him
Craig: I agree with Jake, but not on the order. I think it'll be Benson, Scott, and Leonard. If they keep 4, obviously DeDe Dorsey will stick. Odd man out is James Johnson.
Jake: I honestly think we'll see Scott/Leonard split 2nd string duties. They're both pretty good.
Josh: I agree. I think Cedric and Scott are locks. And Scott and Dorsey have the same skillset. So if the team goes with three running backs, then Dorsey is the odd man out. However, if they go four, then do the Bengals only keep Jeremi Johnson at full back? Many, including the coaches, have high praise with Chris Pressley.
Jake: I don't think they'll risk just keeping Johnson at FB. If they do, they'll definitely put Pressley on the practice squad.
Josh: Last year, the Bengals took three running backs and 2 fullbacks.
Craig: As much as I like Vakapuna's ceiling, you can't let go of a guy who bent a friggin' facemask. Pressley has to stay if at all possible.
Josh: Do you think there's a chance that they keep Johnson and Vakapuna, but put Pressley on the practice squad. In terms of exposure, or notoriety, more people recognize Vakapuna's name more than Pressley's.
Craig: I think Hard Knocks may make it tough to sneak Pressley through to the PS, honestly.
Josh: Good point.

(Chris wakes from his slumber)

Chris: So is Kenny Watson done?
Jake: He was cut a while ago.
Chris: (sigh)
Josh: If the Bengals go four running backs, then who is the fullback?
Chris: Fui
Craig: I think, unfortunate as it is, that JJ is the first FB on the roster. Redeemer and all.
Jake: I think Jeremi Johnson is completely capable as long as he keeps in shape. He had a couple of excellent seasons, remember.
Josh: I agree there. JJ makes the squad as the starting fullback.
Chris: From the limited stuff I've seen, I like what Fui brings.
Josh: Now, if the Bengals take three running backs, who is your backup fullback?
Craig: At this point, I think that Pressley is the second man on the roster. The coaches in the meetings said, point blank, that Pressley is the best blocker.
Josh: You've seen on Hard Knocks how much the coaches play his tough style. Didn't Mike Brown ask what a fullback does?
Chris: Wow
Jake: They love physicality. They want to compete with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
Craig: That's why I hate Johnson being around. There's no reason to not keep Fui and Pressley around. Jake hits it on the head. Pressley gives them the best chance at pancaking the linebacking corps of the AFC North.
Chris: So who's the starter?
Craig: Johnson.
Chris: Gotcha
Josh: An interesting thought is keeping Johnson and Vakapuna and sneak Pressley through Waivers for the practice squad. How many squads are looking for a FB anyway? He might not be that well known. Though I think Craig is right about Hard Knocks documenting him so much. Damned Hard Knocks.

Josh: I had an interesting thought. What if the Bengals go with four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends? And you know that Coats and Chase make the squad. It's a weakened position anyway and I don't expect signing someone that make us instantly better. Plus the offense has never really utilized the TE position.
Jake: When was the last time they carried only 2 tight ends?
Josh: Actually, they only kept two last year and in 2006.
Craig: That's actually a good though, Josh. I like that.
Jake: Interesting. Well, given how shallow it is, I guess two isn't a bad idea. They can use Andre Smith at a TE in goalline packages.
Craig: They can toss that around, if he ever gets in shape.
Chris: I was going more for fullback for Andre
Jake: No way a 350 pounder can play anywhere but on the line of scrimmage.
Craig: Again...did you see the fat guy waddle he was rocking in last week's Hard Knocks? Dude looked terrrrrible.
Josh: The thought is that you keep the running back and fullback position strong, while keeping TE status quo. The question at this point is who will be available after cut down day that the team could sign that would make the tight ends better. And does Foschi really make your squad better than, say, Dorsey and/or Pressley?
Craig: Absolutely not would be the answer to your question, Josh.
Jake: Does Pressley have the ability to learn TE?
Josh: Like a hybrid?
Jake: Yeah, like Coats. Except better.
Josh: I will make another prediction that Foschi makes the practice squad. Of the things he's shown, he's not bad. Needs some refinement; could he could be a decent third TE in this league.
Chris: I like the two tight ends and it keeps a space in off chance Utecht ever gets healthy. Which is doubtful
Josh: Utecht is out for the year. On IR.
Craig: I doubt we see him ever again.
Chris: Me too
Josh: That could depend on Coats.
Craig: I don't mind Coats, but I don't think anyone sees him as a long term answer to anything? Pressley wouldn't be a bad option as a RB/FB hybrid. How are his hands?
Josh: To be honest, I'm not sure. He didn't have a catch this preseason.
Chris: Coffman is obviously being groomed here.
Chris: Keep in mind, Kelly might be healthy next season too
Josh: I'm not sure he'll be back either. He's UFA after this year
Craig: I look for big things from Coffman, just not this year. Not early, anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly come back as a coach in some capacity.
Josh: Yea, he's a strong lockerroom presence. The team respects him alot.
Chris: If he still wants to play, I'd sign to a one-year at least
Craig: Absolutely.
Chris: Make him Chase's personal coach
Jake: Chase isn't going be anything like Kelly was though. He's not the blocking type. Although if he developed strength, that's something he could work on this year, that would be a bonus.
Josh: There's a lot of interesting thoughts here. But the question is, what do we do? Do we keep 3RB/2FB/3TE or 4 RB/1FB/3TB or 4RB/2FB/2TE? I like the latter. The 4RB/2FB/2TE.
Chris: The latter
Craig: I say 4/2/2. I think that's the best way to keep the most talent on the squad.
Jake: I'd say 4 2 2
Josh: Sweet.

Josh: So who is the second fullback? I favor Pressley. Though I believe the team will go with Vakapuna.
Craig: I really think its Pressley, which means we'll lose Fui.
Chris: If the staff says Pressley is the better blocker...
Craig: Although, check that; Mike Brown is in the equation. The coaches want Pressley, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that Mike goes with the draft pick.
Josh: I wouldn't doubt that.
Craig: So are we agreed on Vakapuna then, even reluctantly?
Chris: I want the best blocker
Josh: I'm honestly not sure.
Jake: I'd assume we keep the draft pick. Pressley to the practice squad.
Chris: Then yeah, the draft pick
Craig: If he makes it there
Josh: I think I favor Pressley, but I see the team taking Fui.
Chris: Fui is supposed to be a good pass-catcher

(Josh departs momentarily)

Craig: What are your guys' plans for the holiday weekend?
Chris: I cannot wait for tomorrow. College football overdose.
Jake: Party?
Craig: I know! I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, then I'll be at the Canfield Fair all day on Sunday. Performing in a big show Sunday night.
Chris: Yes, absolutely a party
Jake: All my friends are away.
Craig: It's all right, you'll have several college athletes to keep you company!
Chris: Beer and college football. That'll be all the friends we need.

Josh: I believe the top four wide receivers are set: Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Andre Caldwell. I think the team keeps Jerome Simpson simply because he was the team's second round pick last year. There are four wide receivers competing for that last spot. Now, do you guys believe Simpson makes the squad? If so, then who will be the sixth? I believe Quan Cosby makes it.
Jake: I think Simpson definitely makes it. He's flashed some skills.
Craig: It's down to Purify or Cosby for me if Simpson stays; which I think he does also.
Jake: I didn't see enough of the game last night to make the call if Cosby makes it
Craig: Cosby didn't do much if anything last night, but neither did Purify; if I recall correctly, anyway. Again, I missed the first half.
Chris: Simpson stays.
Josh: What about Antonio Chatman? He could be a Marvin Lewis favorite, making the squad by default. Purify's only advantage is that he has more receptions than Cosby. Cosby has none on offense, by the way.
Jake: How could Chatman possibly make it at this point?
Craig: Man. Forgot about Chatman, completely.
Josh: I don't see it either.
Craig: I think I agree. Chatman has to be out.
Jake: I mean, I guess I see that he's Marvin’s boy, but man, please, no.
Josh: Then you have Freddie Brown.
Chris: He can't stay over Cosby or Purify? Or won't I guess
Craig: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, Purify for Craig. Tom Nelson makes Cosby expendable/PS candidate.
Josh: They could justify that Chatman, when healthy, is the better receiver on offense. And to be honest, I would agree. However, the durability issue makes it impossible for me to keep.
Craig: I don't see Chatman outplaying Purify at this point. Not even close. Although, when healthy, yeah. I suppose.
Chris: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, Chatman
Josh: Wow. We're totally split on this one. I predict Cosby, only because of his punt return potential. Chris has Chatman, Craig has Purify and Jake just hates Chatman.
Chris: I have Chatman because he's Marvin's boy and has experience with the team.
Jake: I don't like any of the options at number six.
Josh: I honestly can see that, Chris.
Craig: I'd like to see Cosby stick, I really would. Maybe they practice squad Purify again if Chatman doesn't stick.
Jake: He hasn't played or practiced. No way Chatman makes it
Chris: Yeah, that's true too. If not Chatman, Cosby. But Purify is damn physical for his size.
Jake: Cosby has some good special teams utility, but I don't think he has enough to stick. Bernard Scott looked great in that kick return.
Craig: I just hate to see them maybe lose Purify. The guy's a beast physically.
Chris: That's true. More so than Cosby
Josh: So it's between Cosby and Purify. Let's take a vote.
Chris: I'm changing my vote again
Craig: He made Roy Williams look like a fool in the Oklahoma.
Chris: Damn persuasive up in here
Josh: That was embarrassing as hell for Roy.
Craig: That said, first punt return for touchdown in, what, five years?
Josh: Who was also trying to cop out of the drills with Coles.
Jake: Purify is my vote.
Chris: I voted for Cosby for punt return. But the Scott point made perfect sense.
Craig: I'm so glad I'm not making this decision for the team! Don't forget Tom Nelson's 44-yard return last week either.
Josh: Alright, Purify?
Craig: The more they're going to want to use Scott in the offense the less they're going to use him in the return game, remember.
Josh: Good point, Craig.
Chris: I hate that concept
Josh: I think Scott would be kickoff return anyway, not punt return.
Jake: If they keep four running backs, Scott won't get much playing time. We think they keep 4 RB, so Scott can return kicks and play on some third downs.
Josh: Dorsey could too.
Craig: Ah! Okay. Ocho. Coles. Henry. Caldwell. Simpson. Cosby. That's my final answer.
Josh: But the issue is punt return; Scott hasn't returned a punt yet. Cosby, in the preseason, returned seven punts and Nelson got six.
Craig: Purify to the practice squad for the second year running.
Chris: I’m back on Cosby again
Josh: OK, time for final vote.
Chris: Cosby
Craig: Cosby
Jake: I think Cosby will make it. Sorry. I want Purify.
Josh: I can see why. You're right. He is a beast.
Craig: I'd be okay with Cosby, really. We have enough talent on offense that I think the 6th WR has to contribute in other ways anyway, so Cosby is the better call the more I think about it.
Josh: I just think that Cosby brings more immediate contributions. Purify isn't a returner and I highly doubt he gets any playing time with Chad, Coles, Henry and Caldwell in front.

Josh: In 2006 and 2008, the Bengals took nine offensive linemen. In 2007, they kept eight. We can assume they're keeping Andre Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Nate Livings, Anthony Collins, Andre Smith, Jonathan Luigs and Scott Kooistra. So we're left with one spot left.
Jake: Jason Shirley
Josh: OK, there's two thoughts here. We could go with eight and be done.
Craig: Well, if we do keep nine including Shirley or someone else, which position is left to suffer?
Josh: The issue with a ninth is that we could be cutting into the defensive roster -- which might not be a bad idea because they seem like the stronger of the two units.
Chris: Or keep eight and keep Purify. But yeah, I see the point about not hurting the defense as bad
Josh: And I disagree with Shirley. While he's literally throwing guys when blocking, I just don't think he's ready to make the roster. He's the typical Marvin Lewis project guy. I think he's still eligible for the practice squad. I think Dennis Roland has a better shot.
Chris: "literally throwing guys when blocking" Is a hard talent to ignore, even if he is a little raw.
Craig: Shirley should be eligible for the practice squad, but I'd bet good money that we'd lose him in the process, especially with him being such a mauler at guard.
Josh: I agree, Chris. That's why I think they'll hope he clears waivers. It wasn't so long ago that Marvin Lewis said flatly on Hard Knocks that Shirley's last chance to make the squad at all was to convert to the offense. In reality, the question is do you want to keep a fourth guard, or a fourth tackle.
Craig: Fourth tackle, for my money. How are we looking at Andre Smith in this equation? Are we actually talking about a fifth tackle?
Josh: That's why I think Roland's the better choice right now. Think of it this way. If Smith doesn't return soon, and god forbid, Whitworth or Collins goes down, we're out of tackles.
Chris: I need a beer
Josh: Sure, Kooistra can play the position, but he's been working mostly guard too.
Craig: I agree with you, Josh. Roland is the smart choice here.
Josh: For now at least. If Shirley passes waivers and I believe he will, and then he's signed to the practice squad, that would be the best scenario for him.
Craig: I'm cool with that. I might be overestimating, but I do worry that he won't clear waivers.
Josh: We also have Evan Mathis and Andrew Crummey. Think those two have a shot?
Craig: I'd say Mathis more than Crummey.
Josh: Alright, full vote. Between Roland and Shirley.
Chris: Roland
Craig: 2. Reluctantly.
Jake: Humph. Roland, I guess. I'd like Shirley.
Josh: I think we all would, to be honest.
Chris: Yep. Tackle will win out, however
Josh: Alright. The offense is set. SWEET!

Craig: Sidebar: Any kind of wishing we could keep Swank?
Josh: He proved that franchising Graham was kind of redonkulous. I love that word.
Jake: Swank hasn't been that impressive. But he made what Josh said true
Craig: Makes me think of Koothrapali in Big Bang Theory.

Josh: Now, historically, the Bengals have taken eight defensive linemen. Mostly it's four defensive ends and four defensive tackles. Here's what I think are locks; Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko. That leaves two guys.
Craig: Rucker should be in the equation probably.
Josh: Well, you got Fanene and Rucker at defensive end. Harrington too.
Craig: Right, Fanene and Harrington the tight end.
Josh: Then you have Clinton McDonald, Langston Moore and Vernell Jenkins at DT.
Chris: I'm voting Jenkins. And you all already know that
Josh: A little UK love?
Jake: Moore's gotta make it.
Craig: Moore is a good pick too.
Chris: Absolutely
Craig: So we really need one end and one tackle. Rucker and Moore?
Josh: I think Moore is the more likely pick. Does that leave McDonald on the practice squad? As for Rucker, I think Fanene beats him out. And the only reason I say that is Rucker's durability. He has none.
Chris: True
Craig: Yeah, you're right. For some reason I always forget about Fanene.
Jake: Might be hard to deny Rucker a spot though, he has quite a bit of talent and has played well.
Craig: He's one of those guys that's just solid and makes plays.
Josh: In three seasons, Rucker has only played 16 games.
Chris: Sterling
Craig: Ouch.
Josh: I like Rucker too. I mean, the dude will catch on with easily another team.
Chris: And be healthy
Craig: And be a perennial All-Pro and eventual HoF inductee.
Chris: You got it
Josh: Cincinnati karma.
Jake: Fanene has been pretty solid though when he gets playing time.
Craig: I like Fanene for his DE/DT versatility. Similar to Bryan Robinson in that regard.
Josh: Fanene has only missed two games in the past two seasons, though he hasn't been flashy. I like his versatility too.
Craig: I think this team is at the point where they need to (at least on the defensive side of the ball) put guys in place who make plays, not guys who might make plays. This defensive unit is CLOSE.
So for his solid play and durability/versatility, my vote goes to Fanene I think.
Josh: I agree. And if Rucker stays healthy, he fits that bill. But you have to depend on the guy too.
Craig: Right. That was my primary point.
Josh: On the other hand, Harrington has two sacks this preseason.
Craig: Yeah. Crap.
Chris: That's big
Josh: Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Craig: What string was he playing against?
Josh: Not much against the first team. Not really sure if he had many first half snaps.
Craig: So that's in the equation too, kind of, sorta.
Josh: Agreed. So the question between Rucker and Fanene is health. Harrington, if he passes waivers, can be ~~the team's starting tight end and~~ join the practice squad.
Craig: So Rucker=out. Another third round pick down the tubes (3rd?). Guys? Fanene or Harrington? All considered I think it has to be Fanene.
Josh : I'm picking Fanene, only because of the question about Rucker's health.
Chris: Didn't we establish Mike Brown likes draft picks?
Craig: lol @ the TE comment. That'll never get old.
Josh: I've cried every night in my sleep after that.
Craig: So we agree that WE want Fanene. Thoughts on what will actually happen?
Josh: I actually think it'll be Fanene. He's on his second contract right now anyway. So you know the team likes him, and Jake is right, Fanene is solid.
Craig: I'm good with that, Josh.
Jake: I think Fanene will stick.
Josh : So we went with Langston Moore and Jonathan Fanene.

Josh: In respect to linebackers, the Bengals took eight in 2006, seven in 2007, and six in 2008. The locks, I think, are Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Rey Maualuga, Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson.
Craig: Yep.
Josh: I really liked Hodge during preseason and he's a special teams contributor. I think he backs up Dhani.
Jake: Hodge absolutely sticks. Simmons will be sure of it.
Craig: Right.
Chris: That's six.
Craig: So. Maxwell? In or out?
Jake: I dunno about Maxwell.
Josh: I think Blackstock makes it, if for any reason, he can play defensive end also.
Craig: I was going to say I think Blackstock sticks. His career-ending hit on Utecht has to count for something other than wasting another of my Bengals jerseys.
Josh: Then you have Dan Stuka.
Chris: I vote for him on name alone. That's just a badass name
Craig: We need to bring back Bjork.
Jake: Reminds me too much of Ditka
Josh: There's another issue we need to consider. Do we just keep six backers and 10 in the secondary? Or seven backers and 9 in the secondary.
Craig: Got to be 7 and 9, I think.
Chris: "What's your name, punk?" "Dan STUKA." "Oh, damn. Don't mess w/that guy." "Damn right.
Chris: I'm sorry
Josh: It's a sweet football name. Then the seventh linebacker has to be Blackstock.
Craig: Absolutely. Blackstock at #7 backer.
Chris: Yes, Blackstock
Josh: Alright, we'll go with Blackstock.

Craig: So we're on to the secondary then?
Josh : Now this will be the toughest one of the night -- and the last.
Craig: Josh, locks?
Chris: (whispers) Dan Stuka will be watching us. Remember that.
Josh: I got Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Chinedum Ndukwe and Roy Williams. Now, I think Tom Nelson is a close lock -- like most everyone else, I loved his play.
Craig: Hall, Joseph, Jones, Crocker, Ndukwe, Williams, Nelson would be my locks. Personally.
Josh: I agree, so Nelson makes the team?
Chris: Who's that kid that made that huge sack against the Pats?
Craig: I don't see how he can't make the team. The guy's a beast.
Josh: Chris likes Nelson too.
Chris: Yeah, him
Craig: Nelson brings versatility as I think he could be a nickel corner also.
Chris: He's certainly got the speed for nickel
Josh: I question David Jones. Is the talent in the secondary deep enough? Is Jones worth keeping, though he didn't make any preseason games?
Craig: It depends on how confident they are with either trying Nelson there or Geoff Pope.
Josh: No thanks on Pope.
Craig: Just sayin'.
Josh: Kyries Hebert is another I like that doesn't much notice, because his strength is his special teams play.
Craig: I'm glad Fletcher is already gone so we don't have to factor him in.
Josh: No doubt
Craig: Yeah, Hebert's got to stay. Led in teams tackles last year, didn't he?
Josh: Yea. We're up to seven. What about Morgan Trent? We need to start looking at cornerbacks. We've listed five safeties already.
Craig: Okay. I think Trent sticks.
Josh: Trent makes the team. You agree?
Chris: Absolutely. Haven't seen much, but what I've read.
Josh : He hasn't been bad.
Craig: So one more. Lynch? That's another safety so maybe Lynch goes.
Josh: I don't know. This is where I think David Jones squeezes in.
Craig: Yeah, more than likely.
Josh: You could also go Pope or Rico Murray.
Craig: Jones improved over last season. No. Jones is better than either of them. Practice squad Pope again, he may be ready next year.
Josh: Jones was placed on the depth chart as the third CB at the start of training camp. Do we reluctantly agree with Jones, or do you guys think we should go with six safeties and keep Lynch?
Craig: That probably depends on Nelson's cover skills.
Chris: Three cornerbacks?
Craig: I wouldn't mind keeping Lynch around, but we definitely need another corner.
Josh: What about Marvin White. We're completely excluding him.
Craig: I'm getting a headache.
Josh: We could swap out Hebert for White.
Craig: Crap, I didn't even realize that White wasn't on our list. I think that says enough about him, though. I think White goes.
Josh: Axe White?
Craig: How do you keep him over your number one special teams guy?
Josh: I'm just not sure where he'd fit in. It would be a numbers game. On the other hand, would the Bengals elect to keep White over Nelson?
Craig: A couple of years ago our special teams squad was decimated and it took over a year to shore it back up. I don't want to see that happen again.
Chris: Better not
Craig: White/Nelson. That's actually probably the best battle happening right now on defense.
Josh: Or, we could dump a running back for another guy in the secondary.
Craig: Dump Dorsey if we want to go that route.
Josh: Dump the oft-injured Dorsey for White. Now we're getting interesting.
Craig: For me? No question. None at all.
Chris: See ya
Craig: What will Mike Brown do, though?
Josh: Exactly.
Chris: Suck. That's what he'll do
Josh: I can see that.
Craig: Son of a gun. I'm stressing about this like we have any say in the matter right now, rubbing my temples and such.
Josh: LOL. We're on the last roster spot. Here's something else to consider. Dating back to 2006, the Bengals have always taken ten or more defensive backs.
Chris: STUKA. Sorry
Craig: So we're short unless we knock off Dorsey, which throws us back into the Dorsey/Leonard discussion. I really wish he hadn't have blocked/returned that punt.
Josh: In regards to Dorsey, I'm not sure if we should use a spot on him for blocking a punt. While it's nice, it's never a certainty. And with Dorsey's skillset, we have Scott.
Craig: I know that. You know that. Bratkowski talked on this week's Hard Knocks about him blocking the field goal two years ago.
Josh: Yea, it just goes to show how fickle the coaches are on the competition.
Craig: Right. I mean, I like a punt block and touchdown as much as the next guy, but...
Josh: On another note, think about it this time last year. You know who we were discussing? Perry, Watson, Dorsey. So you're starting to favor cutting Dorsey for a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Wow. What a difference a year makes. Yes. Yes, I am. Dorsey goes, White stays for me.
Chris: I don't see them dumping a four-year player for a 10th defensive back. Just sayin'
Josh: I think it's a valid point. Do you get rid of Dorsey, who played redonkulous this preseason, for sheer numbers in the secondary? Instead of White, we could keep Lynch. Or we could keep Pope However, here's another point. How much playing time do we really expect Dorsey to get with Cedric, Scott and Leonard in front of him.
Chris: What if Cedric goes back to sucking?
Craig: Dorsey is just going to get hurt. Again.
Chris: Maybe more than it would first seem.
Craig: Chris, that's when Scott takes over.
Chris: Every down?
Craig: Leonard will share. I'm not worried about Cedric, though.
Chris: I am.
Josh: Honestly, if Benson goes down, then I think Leonard becomes the feature back and then Dorsey would be the team's third-down back. And if Benson sucks, then Palmer throws for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. No problem.
Chris: Over Scott? Leonard.
Josh: I think Leonard has the build and style to be a feature back. Scott needs to be that change of pace guy. I would be surprised if he ever gets 15 carries this year.
Craig: LT, Josh?
Josh: You're comparing Scott to LT?
Craig: No. Just sayin'.
Chris: He's got mad skill
Josh: Hey, who knows what happens. I just don't think takes over a feature back role this year.
Craig: Okay. Does DeDe stay or go?
Chris: Stay.

Josh: Here's where we are. We have 52 players set now. We have only 9 defensive backs. The Bengals have historically taken 10 or more. We're thinking of freeing up a spot to give us a 10th, and we instinctively went right to DeDe.
Jake: I have company.
Craig: Nice.
Chris: Pics?
Josh: iPhone?

Josh: We're so close! One more... we... can... do... it... We just need to make a decision. Do we take someone out in favor of a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Okay. DeDe is long past practice squad-eligible, right? Not that it would matter, someone would snatch him up like the Colts did anyway.
Josh: You guys know that the Bengals coaches are right now talking about this.
Chris: I'm keeping Dorsey.

Should we take anything from the team's rushing offense against the Colts; great foundation for rebuilt rushing offense?

Kirkendall — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:00:12 -0000

More photos » by David Kohl - AP

3 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals running back Cedric Benson (32) is tackled by Indianapolis Colts safety Jamie Silva (40) in the first half of a preseason NFL football game, Thursday, Sept. 3, 2009, in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/David Kohl)

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On the stat sheet, it was impressive. On 43 attempts the Bengals offense recorded 296 yards rushing -- a staggering 6.9 yards-per-rush team average. Three different running backs recorded 50 yards or more and all five finished with an average of five yards per rush. Leonard, Scott and Benson recorded at least 23 yards on a single rush attempt. Impressive that might seem, is it wise to adjust and finalize the roster based on this performance? Were any questions answered or were they prolonged? The Colts started two regular starters; so the first team Bengals offense was already playing a backup defense. On the other hand, the Bengals offense started swapping in backup players by the next offensive possession against a defense that averaged 124 yards rushing allowed per game heading into the preseason finale.

As for the season, the Bengals rushed for more than four-yards per attempt through their last three games, recording seven first downs or more on the ground. Here's the game-by-game breakdown.

	@ NO	@ NE	STL	INDY
Yards Rushing	90	173	141	296
Attempts	27	35	32	43
Yards/Att	3.3	4.9	4.4	6.9
First Downs	3	7	9	16
Touchdowns	0	0	1	1

There were periods that the rushing offense struggled early; for the most part, they played well, thanks to a rebuilt offensive line. To further breakdown the performance, the following shows how the Bengals rushing offense did in the first half, when the starters played (though not the entire half in most instances) of each preseason game.

	@ NO	@ NE	STL	INDY
Yards Rushing	61	49	54	168
Attempts	16	17	14	17
Yards/Att	3.8	2.9	3.9	9.9
First Downs	2	3	5	10
Touchdowns	0	0	1	1

The secondary question, after examining the team's effort rushing the ball, is the makeup of the personnel. If the battle is between Bernard Scott and DeDe Dorsey, two backs with similar running styles, then I would guess it would be Scott's. Leonard and Dorsey, it gets muddy. However, I would image in the Bengals would elect a tougher runner between the tackles in the AFC North. Then there's always the prevailing, "what if" the Bengals take four running backs. If that's the case, discussion is over. They take four. Nothing left to talk about.

	@ NO	@ NE	STL	INDY
Cedric Benson	8-28	10-28	5-17	2-35
Bernard Scott	6-20	5-6	8-54	5-43
Brian Leonard	6-10	7-34	4-6-1	9-64-1
DeDe Dorsey	3-5	4-60	4-22	13-68
James Johnson	--	4-22	8-25	11-55

The first number is rushing attempts. The second is yards rushing and the third is touchdowns scored.

Along with an offensive line that could struggle early with so many new pieces from this time a year ago, I believe the Bengals have a good building block for their entire rushing offense. However, I'm not sure if the Bengals should really use the game against Indianapolis as a means to finalize the roster. If questions remained about the position heading into the game, then those questions likely remain. It seemed to me anyone could have rushed well Thursday night. And it's not like anyone struggled. But like I said, while the choice will be difficult for the coaches, I believe we should be encouraged by the foundation this team is setting for the rushing offense.

Open Thread: After Bengals 38-7 win over the Colts, did anyone separate themselves for a roster spot?

Kirkendall — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 02:47:21 -0000

by Ed Reinke - AP

3 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals fullback Brian Leonard (40) is tackled by Indianapolis Colts defensive tackle Daniel Muir (90) in the first half of a preseason NFL football game, Thursday, Sept. 3, 2009, in Cincinnati. (AP Photo/Ed Reinke)

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The question after the Bengals 38-7 preseason finale win over the Indianapolis Colts is, who separated themselves just enough to claim a roster spot on the team. Running back is the most intriguing. Do you keep Brian Leonard, who is the only running back to score rushing touchdowns during the entire preseason (2). Leonard rushed for 64 yards on nine carries against the Colts Thursday. The only guy to pick up more yards was DeDe Dorsey, who rushed for 68 yards. Does Bernard Scott enter the discussion or do you agree with me that he's a lock?

What about Frostee Rucker, who played one game heading into Thursday's game, finishing with a sack, forced fumble in which he recovered? Did Morgan Trent's five tackles and one forced fumble elevate him enough to challenge David Jones for the third cornerback. What about Geoffrey Pope? Did Pat Sims play well enough to get promoted as the team's starting defensive tackle opposite Domata Peko. I think at least it should be considered.

Did anyone close the gap, separating themselves from those that battled for spots on the roster tonight?