SB Nation - Jason Shirley

Cincinnati Bengals announce the 2009 Practice Squad; welcome back Chris Pressley

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 18:28:28 -0000

On Sunday afternoon, the Cincinnati Bengals announced the team's practice squad, Tweets Joe Reedy. One of those players is beloved fullback Chris Pressley, who impressed the hell out of fans and coaches for his physicality during Hard Knocks and the preseason. Jason Shirley also returns with the Cincinnati Bengals, who is learning how to play guard and likely Marvin Lewis' newest pet project. After playing sparingly in 2008 as a rookie, Corey Lynch joins the practice squad.

Other practice squad signees are Tight End Darius Hill, Running back James Johnson, Defensive Tackle Clinton McDonald and Linebacker Dan Skuta. Here's the complete list:

FB	Chris Pressley
WR	Maurice Purify
OG	Jason Shirley
TE	Darius Hill
S	Corey Lynch
RB	James Johnson
DT	Clinton McDonald
LB	Dan Skuta

If you look at the Cincinnati Bengals roster, you have to ask yourself, is this team better than 2008?

Kirkendall — Sun, 06 Sep 2009 17:59:11 -0000

Relatively surprised by the lack of overall reaction from other fan sites, I had hoped for an idea of what others thought about the team's 53-man roster. Maybe some expected the look we received Saturday afternoon, thus electing to play off the analysis. Others could be sitting by, waiting for the practice squad announcement, as well as any changes after the Bengals make claims on the waiver wire; as well as possibly signing veterans; not that the practice squad has anything to do with the 53-man roster the Bengals will have heading into the regular season. And then maybe some are simply too disgusted to logically differentiate how the Bengals look this year, compared to last year, that led to a 4-11-1 season.

I've often chalked up last year as a season in which the Karma gods said, "it's your turn" to have a bunch of things happen that you won't recover from -- such as losing the starting quarterback, a disgruntled receiver, over 20 guys on IR (many of whom were starters), aging players where their body's are breaking down, etc. I know. It's an excuse. Excuses don't change the fact the Bengals started last year 0-8 and finished with the worst ranked offense in the league (note: we had a better record than Cleveland, so that's cool). That also doesn't mean the Karma gods won't point at us again in 2009. Perhaps it's our turn again. Carson Palmer goes down, the offensive line continues to struggle and the rushing offense becomes the biggest disappointment after high expectations. The defense has to bail us out, and historically speaking, that's not something we're capable of believing. Then again, if you believe in balance, all the went wrong last year, is righted. Palmer retains his title as the God of Golden Arms, the rebuilt offensive line comes through and Cedric Benson resumes what he did in the final three games last year -- averaging 154 yards from the line of scrimmage per game. Oh, and last year's 12th ranked defense with added personnel, makes a run at the top ten. Hey, anything could happen, right? After all, the Bengals are playing a much weaker schedule than they were in 2008. And in the division, during the past two even numbered seasons, the Baltimore Ravens struggled (6-10 in 2005, 5-11 in 2007) and the season after winning the Super Bowl in 2005, the Pittsburgh Steelers missed the playoffs. We can only hope for trends.

Will the Bengals make a run this year? That, like most things in life, is totally unpredictable. And no one predicted that quarterback Carson Palmer would miss 12 games in 2008. However, I believe that the Bengals will be far better this year than 2008. You can see that if you take a position by position look at the roster.

Quarterback - Saying that Palmer is returning assumes he won't get hurt again in 2009. And I won't say that durability issues are starting to become worrisome with our starting quarterback. The fact is, injury forced him to miss 75% of the regular season last year and this year's preseason (though mostly out of caution and additional time for rehabilitation during needless preseason games). The foundation of where the question is more answerable, points towards the team's backup quarterback. If Palmer goes down again, do you believe J.T. O'Sullivan is a better passer than Ryan Fitzpatrick? Some could point to this years preseason and answer yes. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a decent performers in some regular season games. Others will point to the same collection of arguments saying that Fitzpatrick had a good preseason in 2008 and J.T. O'Sullivan also has a history of being a disaster in some regular season games.

Running back - Let me remind you of last year. Chris Perry and Rudi Johnson had decent offseasons which fooled enough people into believing that both would mimic their incredible one-two combination in 2005. Johnson was hurt through the preseason and subsequently released. Perry never recorded more than 75 yards rushing and through six games in which he recorded 10 rushing attempts or more, he averaged three yards or more in only two games.

This is what you have to ask this year, adjusting your mindset into a comparitve analysis of where we were last year: Is Cedric Benson a better option than Chris Perry? Is Bernard Scott a better option than Kenny Watson? Is DeDe Dorsey in 2009 a better option that DeDe Dorsey in 2008? I suppose if he plays more than four games this year, that answer is yes.

Wide Receiver and Tight End . T.J. Houshmandzadeh leaves and Laveranues Coles arrives. This, to me, isn't the argument. Chad Ochocinco is far more motivated to play this year and he looks to play two combined Pro Bowl seasons in 2009. Chris Henry looks like he did his first two seasons where he recorded 15 touchdowns; along with his total life change in which you get the feeling that you can finally trust him. Even if you're asking for a comparison between two wide receivers (Houshmandzadeh and Coles) to see if the position is stronger, I believe looking at Chad and Henry's motivations clearly makes the position stronger alone.

Tight End on the other hand, is different. I do believe the position is weaker. I won't go on what we expect out of Chase Coffman, he's a rookie. We won't know until the season plays itself out. Reggie Kelly and Ben Utecht going down hurts the position, because two rookies are manning the position with Daniel Coats, who benefited greatly after Kelly went on IR because he was fighting for a roster spot with Coffman as the team's third Tight End. Now Coats, having the perfect scenario of two injuries playing out to make a roster spot, is now the team's starter. This will be the second time in two seasons he became the default starter because of injury.

Offensive Line. Not only is this the most critical for the team to improve upon, it's also one of the more dramatically changed compared to the starting lineup last year against the Baltimore Ravens.

	2008	2009 *
LT	Levi Jones	Andre Whitworth
LG	Andrew Whitworth	Nate Livings
C	Eric Ghiaciuc	Kyle Cook
RG	Bobbie Williams	Bobbie Williams
RT	Stacy Andrews	Anthony Collins

* Projected

I believe while we've improved at left tackle, we've dropped at left guard; Livings is replaceable at best. I also believe it's obvious that we've improved at center, while as of right, we're kind of pushing at right tackle. However, I'm too hesitant to actually say if we're improved or worse. Apart of me wants to say we are, because of the changes in perseonnel. However, another part of me just isn't sure.

Defensive End. Oddly enough, this position holds the same personnel this year as it did last year with one exception; Michael Johnson, who did not record a single sack during the preseason. In fact, this group only recorded two sacks in four preseason games; Robert Geathers sacked Tom Brady and Frostee Rucker had a sack, forced fumble and fumble recover.

This is where I believe we improved (albeit only slightly). Antwan Odom entered last year with a bum ankle, having been carted off at the start of Training Camp when he suffered the injury. He missed four games in the season and recorded three sacks on the first year of a well-paid contract. During the offseason, he gained bulk without losing the speed. Geathers looked great in the preseason, aggressively fighting blockers against the run and pass. I believe he's the best overall defensive end on the roster. Fanene has always been solid and can play both end and tackle. The biggest chance that the Bengals took was holding onto Rucker for one more season. It's not that he lacks talent; he just lacks the ability to stay healthy.

Defensive Tackle. John Thornton went into semi-retirement after this year, Jason Shirley converted to an offensive linemen and Michael Myers wasn't re-signed. The Bengals responded by replacing all of them with Tank Johnson. The Bengals will go into the regular season (as of this post) with three defensive tackles, likely using Rucker and Fanene in rotation. Is the position improved, worse or is it a push? I think this has everything to do with Sims, who led the team with three quarterback sacks during the preseason and led all defensive linemen with 13 total tackles. It's with my belief that he, not Tank Johnson, made a convincing argument to start opposite Domata Peko. The question though, is the position stronger than it was last year? I believe it is.

Linebackers. Think of it this way. Brandon Johnson recorded 112 tackles and Rashad Jeanty recorded 97 tackles last year. They ranked second and fourth respectively on the team. And there's a shot that neither will be starters against the Denver Broncos. Keith Rivers will retake his spot as the team's weak-side linebacker and it's evident that the Bengals coaching staff wants to start Rey Maualuga over Jeanty on the strong-side. Having two guys that combined for 209 tackles just shouts to the heavens that the Bengals strongest position, in terms of depth, is linebackers. The team's starting middle linebacker, Dhani Jones, is coming off a season in which he led the team with 165 tackles.

Compared to last year, the Bengals replaced Darryl Blackstock with Maualuga and Mays with Abdul Hodge, who led the Bengals with 18 tackles (13 solo) this preseason. Furthermore, if you watched the way Rivers played this year, he already looks far superior last year. He's quicker, stronger and far more aggressive than he was last year. He has the potential to be a multiple Pro Bowler. It's my belief that the Bengals linebackers is the strongest position on defense.

Secondary. Simeon Castille, Dexter Jackson, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch and Marvin White all have something in common; all were with the Bengals in 2008 when the season started; none are with the Bengals in 2009. Replacing those five are Geoffrey Pope, Morgan Trent, Chris Crocker, Roy Williams and Tom Nelson. I believe cornerbacks is improved, mostly because Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall look better this year than last. Morgan Trent lacked a solid pedigree with the Michigan Wolverines that makes us conclude we've improved the position with Geoffrey Pope as a filler. The Bengals could even look at upgrading the position from now until the season kicks off on the waiver wire or on free agency.

As for safety, we appear better. The questions are; is Tom Nelson better than Corey Lynch and is Roy Williams better than Marvin White? Chris Crocker is obviously an improvement, considering he could be one of the team's secondary leaders.

Special Teams. Kyle Larson. Kevin Huber. Set. Serve. Match.

The roster as it is, isn't perfect. No roster in the NFL could possibly be perfect. However, that isn't the question. The debate right now is: Is the 2009 Bengals better than the 2008 Bengals?

Poll

Simple poll question. Do you believe that the Bengals roster in 2009 is better than the roster in 2008?

Yes

490 votes

No

40 votes

530 votes | Poll has closed

Predicting the Cincinnati Bengals' 53-man roster. A look into the minds of CincyJungle writers

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:05:53 -0000

On Friday, Josh (Kirkendall), Craig (A Pragmatic Bengals Fan), Chris (IFChris) and Jake (jsl413) sat in a room and decided to take on the task filling out the 53-man roster. While initially our intended goal was based on prediction, we also set the roster with players that we think makes the team stronger. For example, our more radical idea that might not be on the mind of the Bengals brass, is to take four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends. We thought that keeping four good running backs and two good full backs would make the team far more stronger than simply adding a third tight end that's currently on the roster; or some tight end that another team released. Even if Dorsey is the fourth running back, he's a strong contributor on special teams. So he makes the team stronger, in our minds. Anyway.

Let's get right to it. Here's our 53-man roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive End (4)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson
	Bernard Scott	Defensive Tackle (4)	Pat Sims
	Brian Leonard		Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Tank Johnson
			Langston Moore
Fullbacks (2)	Jeremi Johnson
	Fui Vakapuna	Linebackers (7)	Keith Rivers
			Dhani Jones
Tight Ends (2)	Daniel Coats		Rey Maualuga
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receiver (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles		Darryl Blackstock
	Chris Henry
	Andre Caldwell	Secondary (9)	Johnathan Joseph
	Jerome Simpson		Leon Hall
	Quan Cosby		Chris Crocker
			Chinedum Ndukwe
Offensive Line (9)	Andrew Whitworth		Roy Williams
	Bobbie Williams		Kyries Hebert
	Nate Livings		Tom Nelson
	Kyle Cook		Morgan Trent
	Anthony Collins		David Jones
	Andre Smith
	Scott Kooistra	Special Teams (3)	Shayne Graham
	Jonathan Luigs		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

There's several notable players missing. For example, after some debate, we elected to keep Jason Shirley off the roster, thinking he could be a Marvin Lewis project; which could force him on the practice squad if he clears waivers. In our minds, he's just not ready yet. Marvin White missed the cut; not because of anything he did, but we felt others were surpassing him. However, we shouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. Antonio Chatman's history is too much for a roster spot and a debate broke out between keeping Cosby and Maurice Purify. And we all loved Dan Stuka.

Stay with us all day as we analyze the team's roster cuts as they come through.

Here's a transcript of our entire conversation, or round table, that shows how we came to the conclusion on our 53-man roster.

TRANSCRIPT

Josh Kirkendall: We have 75 players and 53 spots. So by the end of the day, we'll be eliminating 22 players. I know you guys agree that quarterback is relatively easy enough. So let's get to the meat and potatoes of the topic. Running back.
Craig: Wow, diving right in.
Jake: Well running back, to me, is going to be Cedric Benson, Brian Leonard, and Bernard Scott. Just a question of if they keep four. They will want to protect Scott, and they went out and traded for Leonard, so they must see something in him
Craig: I agree with Jake, but not on the order. I think it'll be Benson, Scott, and Leonard. If they keep 4, obviously DeDe Dorsey will stick. Odd man out is James Johnson.
Jake: I honestly think we'll see Scott/Leonard split 2nd string duties. They're both pretty good.
Josh: I agree. I think Cedric and Scott are locks. And Scott and Dorsey have the same skillset. So if the team goes with three running backs, then Dorsey is the odd man out. However, if they go four, then do the Bengals only keep Jeremi Johnson at full back? Many, including the coaches, have high praise with Chris Pressley.
Jake: I don't think they'll risk just keeping Johnson at FB. If they do, they'll definitely put Pressley on the practice squad.
Josh: Last year, the Bengals took three running backs and 2 fullbacks.
Craig: As much as I like Vakapuna's ceiling, you can't let go of a guy who bent a friggin' facemask. Pressley has to stay if at all possible.
Josh: Do you think there's a chance that they keep Johnson and Vakapuna, but put Pressley on the practice squad. In terms of exposure, or notoriety, more people recognize Vakapuna's name more than Pressley's.
Craig: I think Hard Knocks may make it tough to sneak Pressley through to the PS, honestly.
Josh: Good point.

(Chris wakes from his slumber)

Chris: So is Kenny Watson done?
Jake: He was cut a while ago.
Chris: (sigh)
Josh: If the Bengals go four running backs, then who is the fullback?
Chris: Fui
Craig: I think, unfortunate as it is, that JJ is the first FB on the roster. Redeemer and all.
Jake: I think Jeremi Johnson is completely capable as long as he keeps in shape. He had a couple of excellent seasons, remember.
Josh: I agree there. JJ makes the squad as the starting fullback.
Chris: From the limited stuff I've seen, I like what Fui brings.
Josh: Now, if the Bengals take three running backs, who is your backup fullback?
Craig: At this point, I think that Pressley is the second man on the roster. The coaches in the meetings said, point blank, that Pressley is the best blocker.
Josh: You've seen on Hard Knocks how much the coaches play his tough style. Didn't Mike Brown ask what a fullback does?
Chris: Wow
Jake: They love physicality. They want to compete with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
Craig: That's why I hate Johnson being around. There's no reason to not keep Fui and Pressley around. Jake hits it on the head. Pressley gives them the best chance at pancaking the linebacking corps of the AFC North.
Chris: So who's the starter?
Craig: Johnson.
Chris: Gotcha
Josh: An interesting thought is keeping Johnson and Vakapuna and sneak Pressley through Waivers for the practice squad. How many squads are looking for a FB anyway? He might not be that well known. Though I think Craig is right about Hard Knocks documenting him so much. Damned Hard Knocks.

Josh: I had an interesting thought. What if the Bengals go with four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends? And you know that Coats and Chase make the squad. It's a weakened position anyway and I don't expect signing someone that make us instantly better. Plus the offense has never really utilized the TE position.
Jake: When was the last time they carried only 2 tight ends?
Josh: Actually, they only kept two last year and in 2006.
Craig: That's actually a good though, Josh. I like that.
Jake: Interesting. Well, given how shallow it is, I guess two isn't a bad idea. They can use Andre Smith at a TE in goalline packages.
Craig: They can toss that around, if he ever gets in shape.
Chris: I was going more for fullback for Andre
Jake: No way a 350 pounder can play anywhere but on the line of scrimmage.
Craig: Again...did you see the fat guy waddle he was rocking in last week's Hard Knocks? Dude looked terrrrrible.
Josh: The thought is that you keep the running back and fullback position strong, while keeping TE status quo. The question at this point is who will be available after cut down day that the team could sign that would make the tight ends better. And does Foschi really make your squad better than, say, Dorsey and/or Pressley?
Craig: Absolutely not would be the answer to your question, Josh.
Jake: Does Pressley have the ability to learn TE?
Josh: Like a hybrid?
Jake: Yeah, like Coats. Except better.
Josh: I will make another prediction that Foschi makes the practice squad. Of the things he's shown, he's not bad. Needs some refinement; could he could be a decent third TE in this league.
Chris: I like the two tight ends and it keeps a space in off chance Utecht ever gets healthy. Which is doubtful
Josh: Utecht is out for the year. On IR.
Craig: I doubt we see him ever again.
Chris: Me too
Josh: That could depend on Coats.
Craig: I don't mind Coats, but I don't think anyone sees him as a long term answer to anything? Pressley wouldn't be a bad option as a RB/FB hybrid. How are his hands?
Josh: To be honest, I'm not sure. He didn't have a catch this preseason.
Chris: Coffman is obviously being groomed here.
Chris: Keep in mind, Kelly might be healthy next season too
Josh: I'm not sure he'll be back either. He's UFA after this year
Craig: I look for big things from Coffman, just not this year. Not early, anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly come back as a coach in some capacity.
Josh: Yea, he's a strong lockerroom presence. The team respects him alot.
Chris: If he still wants to play, I'd sign to a one-year at least
Craig: Absolutely.
Chris: Make him Chase's personal coach
Jake: Chase isn't going be anything like Kelly was though. He's not the blocking type. Although if he developed strength, that's something he could work on this year, that would be a bonus.
Josh: There's a lot of interesting thoughts here. But the question is, what do we do? Do we keep 3RB/2FB/3TE or 4 RB/1FB/3TB or 4RB/2FB/2TE? I like the latter. The 4RB/2FB/2TE.
Chris: The latter
Craig: I say 4/2/2. I think that's the best way to keep the most talent on the squad.
Jake: I'd say 4 2 2
Josh: Sweet.

Josh: So who is the second fullback? I favor Pressley. Though I believe the team will go with Vakapuna.
Craig: I really think its Pressley, which means we'll lose Fui.
Chris: If the staff says Pressley is the better blocker...
Craig: Although, check that; Mike Brown is in the equation. The coaches want Pressley, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that Mike goes with the draft pick.
Josh: I wouldn't doubt that.
Craig: So are we agreed on Vakapuna then, even reluctantly?
Chris: I want the best blocker
Josh: I'm honestly not sure.
Jake: I'd assume we keep the draft pick. Pressley to the practice squad.
Chris: Then yeah, the draft pick
Craig: If he makes it there
Josh: I think I favor Pressley, but I see the team taking Fui.
Chris: Fui is supposed to be a good pass-catcher

(Josh departs momentarily)

Craig: What are your guys' plans for the holiday weekend?
Chris: I cannot wait for tomorrow. College football overdose.
Jake: Party?
Craig: I know! I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, then I'll be at the Canfield Fair all day on Sunday. Performing in a big show Sunday night.
Chris: Yes, absolutely a party
Jake: All my friends are away.
Craig: It's all right, you'll have several college athletes to keep you company!
Chris: Beer and college football. That'll be all the friends we need.

Josh: I believe the top four wide receivers are set: Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Andre Caldwell. I think the team keeps Jerome Simpson simply because he was the team's second round pick last year. There are four wide receivers competing for that last spot. Now, do you guys believe Simpson makes the squad? If so, then who will be the sixth? I believe Quan Cosby makes it.
Jake: I think Simpson definitely makes it. He's flashed some skills.
Craig: It's down to Purify or Cosby for me if Simpson stays; which I think he does also.
Jake: I didn't see enough of the game last night to make the call if Cosby makes it
Craig: Cosby didn't do much if anything last night, but neither did Purify; if I recall correctly, anyway. Again, I missed the first half.
Chris: Simpson stays.
Josh: What about Antonio Chatman? He could be a Marvin Lewis favorite, making the squad by default. Purify's only advantage is that he has more receptions than Cosby. Cosby has none on offense, by the way.
Jake: How could Chatman possibly make it at this point?
Craig: Man. Forgot about Chatman, completely.
Josh: I don't see it either.
Craig: I think I agree. Chatman has to be out.
Jake: I mean, I guess I see that he's Marvin’s boy, but man, please, no.
Josh: Then you have Freddie Brown.
Chris: He can't stay over Cosby or Purify? Or won't I guess
Craig: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, Purify for Craig. Tom Nelson makes Cosby expendable/PS candidate.
Josh: They could justify that Chatman, when healthy, is the better receiver on offense. And to be honest, I would agree. However, the durability issue makes it impossible for me to keep.
Craig: I don't see Chatman outplaying Purify at this point. Not even close. Although, when healthy, yeah. I suppose.
Chris: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, Chatman
Josh: Wow. We're totally split on this one. I predict Cosby, only because of his punt return potential. Chris has Chatman, Craig has Purify and Jake just hates Chatman.
Chris: I have Chatman because he's Marvin's boy and has experience with the team.
Jake: I don't like any of the options at number six.
Josh: I honestly can see that, Chris.
Craig: I'd like to see Cosby stick, I really would. Maybe they practice squad Purify again if Chatman doesn't stick.
Jake: He hasn't played or practiced. No way Chatman makes it
Chris: Yeah, that's true too. If not Chatman, Cosby. But Purify is damn physical for his size.
Jake: Cosby has some good special teams utility, but I don't think he has enough to stick. Bernard Scott looked great in that kick return.
Craig: I just hate to see them maybe lose Purify. The guy's a beast physically.
Chris: That's true. More so than Cosby
Josh: So it's between Cosby and Purify. Let's take a vote.
Chris: I'm changing my vote again
Craig: He made Roy Williams look like a fool in the Oklahoma.
Chris: Damn persuasive up in here
Josh: That was embarrassing as hell for Roy.
Craig: That said, first punt return for touchdown in, what, five years?
Josh: Who was also trying to cop out of the drills with Coles.
Jake: Purify is my vote.
Chris: I voted for Cosby for punt return. But the Scott point made perfect sense.
Craig: I'm so glad I'm not making this decision for the team! Don't forget Tom Nelson's 44-yard return last week either.
Josh: Alright, Purify?
Craig: The more they're going to want to use Scott in the offense the less they're going to use him in the return game, remember.
Josh: Good point, Craig.
Chris: I hate that concept
Josh: I think Scott would be kickoff return anyway, not punt return.
Jake: If they keep four running backs, Scott won't get much playing time. We think they keep 4 RB, so Scott can return kicks and play on some third downs.
Josh: Dorsey could too.
Craig: Ah! Okay. Ocho. Coles. Henry. Caldwell. Simpson. Cosby. That's my final answer.
Josh: But the issue is punt return; Scott hasn't returned a punt yet. Cosby, in the preseason, returned seven punts and Nelson got six.
Craig: Purify to the practice squad for the second year running.
Chris: I’m back on Cosby again
Josh: OK, time for final vote.
Chris: Cosby
Craig: Cosby
Jake: I think Cosby will make it. Sorry. I want Purify.
Josh: I can see why. You're right. He is a beast.
Craig: I'd be okay with Cosby, really. We have enough talent on offense that I think the 6th WR has to contribute in other ways anyway, so Cosby is the better call the more I think about it.
Josh: I just think that Cosby brings more immediate contributions. Purify isn't a returner and I highly doubt he gets any playing time with Chad, Coles, Henry and Caldwell in front.

Josh: In 2006 and 2008, the Bengals took nine offensive linemen. In 2007, they kept eight. We can assume they're keeping Andre Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Nate Livings, Anthony Collins, Andre Smith, Jonathan Luigs and Scott Kooistra. So we're left with one spot left.
Jake: Jason Shirley
Josh: OK, there's two thoughts here. We could go with eight and be done.
Craig: Well, if we do keep nine including Shirley or someone else, which position is left to suffer?
Josh: The issue with a ninth is that we could be cutting into the defensive roster -- which might not be a bad idea because they seem like the stronger of the two units.
Chris: Or keep eight and keep Purify. But yeah, I see the point about not hurting the defense as bad
Josh: And I disagree with Shirley. While he's literally throwing guys when blocking, I just don't think he's ready to make the roster. He's the typical Marvin Lewis project guy. I think he's still eligible for the practice squad. I think Dennis Roland has a better shot.
Chris: "literally throwing guys when blocking" Is a hard talent to ignore, even if he is a little raw.
Craig: Shirley should be eligible for the practice squad, but I'd bet good money that we'd lose him in the process, especially with him being such a mauler at guard.
Josh: I agree, Chris. That's why I think they'll hope he clears waivers. It wasn't so long ago that Marvin Lewis said flatly on Hard Knocks that Shirley's last chance to make the squad at all was to convert to the offense. In reality, the question is do you want to keep a fourth guard, or a fourth tackle.
Craig: Fourth tackle, for my money. How are we looking at Andre Smith in this equation? Are we actually talking about a fifth tackle?
Josh: That's why I think Roland's the better choice right now. Think of it this way. If Smith doesn't return soon, and god forbid, Whitworth or Collins goes down, we're out of tackles.
Chris: I need a beer
Josh: Sure, Kooistra can play the position, but he's been working mostly guard too.
Craig: I agree with you, Josh. Roland is the smart choice here.
Josh: For now at least. If Shirley passes waivers and I believe he will, and then he's signed to the practice squad, that would be the best scenario for him.
Craig: I'm cool with that. I might be overestimating, but I do worry that he won't clear waivers.
Josh: We also have Evan Mathis and Andrew Crummey. Think those two have a shot?
Craig: I'd say Mathis more than Crummey.
Josh: Alright, full vote. Between Roland and Shirley.
Chris: Roland
Craig: 2. Reluctantly.
Jake: Humph. Roland, I guess. I'd like Shirley.
Josh: I think we all would, to be honest.
Chris: Yep. Tackle will win out, however
Josh: Alright. The offense is set. SWEET!

Craig: Sidebar: Any kind of wishing we could keep Swank?
Josh: He proved that franchising Graham was kind of redonkulous. I love that word.
Jake: Swank hasn't been that impressive. But he made what Josh said true
Craig: Makes me think of Koothrapali in Big Bang Theory.

Josh: Now, historically, the Bengals have taken eight defensive linemen. Mostly it's four defensive ends and four defensive tackles. Here's what I think are locks; Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko. That leaves two guys.
Craig: Rucker should be in the equation probably.
Josh: Well, you got Fanene and Rucker at defensive end. Harrington too.
Craig: Right, Fanene and Harrington the tight end.
Josh: Then you have Clinton McDonald, Langston Moore and Vernell Jenkins at DT.
Chris: I'm voting Jenkins. And you all already know that
Josh: A little UK love?
Jake: Moore's gotta make it.
Craig: Moore is a good pick too.
Chris: Absolutely
Craig: So we really need one end and one tackle. Rucker and Moore?
Josh: I think Moore is the more likely pick. Does that leave McDonald on the practice squad? As for Rucker, I think Fanene beats him out. And the only reason I say that is Rucker's durability. He has none.
Chris: True
Craig: Yeah, you're right. For some reason I always forget about Fanene.
Jake: Might be hard to deny Rucker a spot though, he has quite a bit of talent and has played well.
Craig: He's one of those guys that's just solid and makes plays.
Josh: In three seasons, Rucker has only played 16 games.
Chris: Sterling
Craig: Ouch.
Josh: I like Rucker too. I mean, the dude will catch on with easily another team.
Chris: And be healthy
Craig: And be a perennial All-Pro and eventual HoF inductee.
Chris: You got it
Josh: Cincinnati karma.
Jake: Fanene has been pretty solid though when he gets playing time.
Craig: I like Fanene for his DE/DT versatility. Similar to Bryan Robinson in that regard.
Josh: Fanene has only missed two games in the past two seasons, though he hasn't been flashy. I like his versatility too.
Craig: I think this team is at the point where they need to (at least on the defensive side of the ball) put guys in place who make plays, not guys who might make plays. This defensive unit is CLOSE.
So for his solid play and durability/versatility, my vote goes to Fanene I think.
Josh: I agree. And if Rucker stays healthy, he fits that bill. But you have to depend on the guy too.
Craig: Right. That was my primary point.
Josh: On the other hand, Harrington has two sacks this preseason.
Craig: Yeah. Crap.
Chris: That's big
Josh: Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Craig: What string was he playing against?
Josh: Not much against the first team. Not really sure if he had many first half snaps.
Craig: So that's in the equation too, kind of, sorta.
Josh: Agreed. So the question between Rucker and Fanene is health. Harrington, if he passes waivers, can be ~~the team's starting tight end and~~ join the practice squad.
Craig: So Rucker=out. Another third round pick down the tubes (3rd?). Guys? Fanene or Harrington? All considered I think it has to be Fanene.
Josh : I'm picking Fanene, only because of the question about Rucker's health.
Chris: Didn't we establish Mike Brown likes draft picks?
Craig: lol @ the TE comment. That'll never get old.
Josh: I've cried every night in my sleep after that.
Craig: So we agree that WE want Fanene. Thoughts on what will actually happen?
Josh: I actually think it'll be Fanene. He's on his second contract right now anyway. So you know the team likes him, and Jake is right, Fanene is solid.
Craig: I'm good with that, Josh.
Jake: I think Fanene will stick.
Josh : So we went with Langston Moore and Jonathan Fanene.

Josh: In respect to linebackers, the Bengals took eight in 2006, seven in 2007, and six in 2008. The locks, I think, are Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Rey Maualuga, Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson.
Craig: Yep.
Josh: I really liked Hodge during preseason and he's a special teams contributor. I think he backs up Dhani.
Jake: Hodge absolutely sticks. Simmons will be sure of it.
Craig: Right.
Chris: That's six.
Craig: So. Maxwell? In or out?
Jake: I dunno about Maxwell.
Josh: I think Blackstock makes it, if for any reason, he can play defensive end also.
Craig: I was going to say I think Blackstock sticks. His career-ending hit on Utecht has to count for something other than wasting another of my Bengals jerseys.
Josh: Then you have Dan Stuka.
Chris: I vote for him on name alone. That's just a badass name
Craig: We need to bring back Bjork.
Jake: Reminds me too much of Ditka
Josh: There's another issue we need to consider. Do we just keep six backers and 10 in the secondary? Or seven backers and 9 in the secondary.
Craig: Got to be 7 and 9, I think.
Chris: "What's your name, punk?" "Dan STUKA." "Oh, damn. Don't mess w/that guy." "Damn right.
Chris: I'm sorry
Josh: It's a sweet football name. Then the seventh linebacker has to be Blackstock.
Craig: Absolutely. Blackstock at #7 backer.
Chris: Yes, Blackstock
Josh: Alright, we'll go with Blackstock.

Craig: So we're on to the secondary then?
Josh : Now this will be the toughest one of the night -- and the last.
Craig: Josh, locks?
Chris: (whispers) Dan Stuka will be watching us. Remember that.
Josh: I got Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Chinedum Ndukwe and Roy Williams. Now, I think Tom Nelson is a close lock -- like most everyone else, I loved his play.
Craig: Hall, Joseph, Jones, Crocker, Ndukwe, Williams, Nelson would be my locks. Personally.
Josh: I agree, so Nelson makes the team?
Chris: Who's that kid that made that huge sack against the Pats?
Craig: I don't see how he can't make the team. The guy's a beast.
Josh: Chris likes Nelson too.
Chris: Yeah, him
Craig: Nelson brings versatility as I think he could be a nickel corner also.
Chris: He's certainly got the speed for nickel
Josh: I question David Jones. Is the talent in the secondary deep enough? Is Jones worth keeping, though he didn't make any preseason games?
Craig: It depends on how confident they are with either trying Nelson there or Geoff Pope.
Josh: No thanks on Pope.
Craig: Just sayin'.
Josh: Kyries Hebert is another I like that doesn't much notice, because his strength is his special teams play.
Craig: I'm glad Fletcher is already gone so we don't have to factor him in.
Josh: No doubt
Craig: Yeah, Hebert's got to stay. Led in teams tackles last year, didn't he?
Josh: Yea. We're up to seven. What about Morgan Trent? We need to start looking at cornerbacks. We've listed five safeties already.
Craig: Okay. I think Trent sticks.
Josh: Trent makes the team. You agree?
Chris: Absolutely. Haven't seen much, but what I've read.
Josh : He hasn't been bad.
Craig: So one more. Lynch? That's another safety so maybe Lynch goes.
Josh: I don't know. This is where I think David Jones squeezes in.
Craig: Yeah, more than likely.
Josh: You could also go Pope or Rico Murray.
Craig: Jones improved over last season. No. Jones is better than either of them. Practice squad Pope again, he may be ready next year.
Josh: Jones was placed on the depth chart as the third CB at the start of training camp. Do we reluctantly agree with Jones, or do you guys think we should go with six safeties and keep Lynch?
Craig: That probably depends on Nelson's cover skills.
Chris: Three cornerbacks?
Craig: I wouldn't mind keeping Lynch around, but we definitely need another corner.
Josh: What about Marvin White. We're completely excluding him.
Craig: I'm getting a headache.
Josh: We could swap out Hebert for White.
Craig: Crap, I didn't even realize that White wasn't on our list. I think that says enough about him, though. I think White goes.
Josh: Axe White?
Craig: How do you keep him over your number one special teams guy?
Josh: I'm just not sure where he'd fit in. It would be a numbers game. On the other hand, would the Bengals elect to keep White over Nelson?
Craig: A couple of years ago our special teams squad was decimated and it took over a year to shore it back up. I don't want to see that happen again.
Chris: Better not
Craig: White/Nelson. That's actually probably the best battle happening right now on defense.
Josh: Or, we could dump a running back for another guy in the secondary.
Craig: Dump Dorsey if we want to go that route.
Josh: Dump the oft-injured Dorsey for White. Now we're getting interesting.
Craig: For me? No question. None at all.
Chris: See ya
Craig: What will Mike Brown do, though?
Josh: Exactly.
Chris: Suck. That's what he'll do
Josh: I can see that.
Craig: Son of a gun. I'm stressing about this like we have any say in the matter right now, rubbing my temples and such.
Josh: LOL. We're on the last roster spot. Here's something else to consider. Dating back to 2006, the Bengals have always taken ten or more defensive backs.
Chris: STUKA. Sorry
Craig: So we're short unless we knock off Dorsey, which throws us back into the Dorsey/Leonard discussion. I really wish he hadn't have blocked/returned that punt.
Josh: In regards to Dorsey, I'm not sure if we should use a spot on him for blocking a punt. While it's nice, it's never a certainty. And with Dorsey's skillset, we have Scott.
Craig: I know that. You know that. Bratkowski talked on this week's Hard Knocks about him blocking the field goal two years ago.
Josh: Yea, it just goes to show how fickle the coaches are on the competition.
Craig: Right. I mean, I like a punt block and touchdown as much as the next guy, but...
Josh: On another note, think about it this time last year. You know who we were discussing? Perry, Watson, Dorsey. So you're starting to favor cutting Dorsey for a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Wow. What a difference a year makes. Yes. Yes, I am. Dorsey goes, White stays for me.
Chris: I don't see them dumping a four-year player for a 10th defensive back. Just sayin'
Josh: I think it's a valid point. Do you get rid of Dorsey, who played redonkulous this preseason, for sheer numbers in the secondary? Instead of White, we could keep Lynch. Or we could keep Pope However, here's another point. How much playing time do we really expect Dorsey to get with Cedric, Scott and Leonard in front of him.
Chris: What if Cedric goes back to sucking?
Craig: Dorsey is just going to get hurt. Again.
Chris: Maybe more than it would first seem.
Craig: Chris, that's when Scott takes over.
Chris: Every down?
Craig: Leonard will share. I'm not worried about Cedric, though.
Chris: I am.
Josh: Honestly, if Benson goes down, then I think Leonard becomes the feature back and then Dorsey would be the team's third-down back. And if Benson sucks, then Palmer throws for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. No problem.
Chris: Over Scott? Leonard.
Josh: I think Leonard has the build and style to be a feature back. Scott needs to be that change of pace guy. I would be surprised if he ever gets 15 carries this year.
Craig: LT, Josh?
Josh: You're comparing Scott to LT?
Craig: No. Just sayin'.
Chris: He's got mad skill
Josh: Hey, who knows what happens. I just don't think takes over a feature back role this year.
Craig: Okay. Does DeDe stay or go?
Chris: Stay.

Josh: Here's where we are. We have 52 players set now. We have only 9 defensive backs. The Bengals have historically taken 10 or more. We're thinking of freeing up a spot to give us a 10th, and we instinctively went right to DeDe.
Jake: I have company.
Craig: Nice.
Chris: Pics?
Josh: iPhone?

Josh: We're so close! One more... we... can... do... it... We just need to make a decision. Do we take someone out in favor of a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Okay. DeDe is long past practice squad-eligible, right? Not that it would matter, someone would snatch him up like the Colts did anyway.
Josh: You guys know that the Bengals coaches are right now talking about this.
Chris: I'm keeping Dorsey.

Hard Knocks IV: Cutdown day looms

Kirkendall — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:18:58 -0000

The upcoming cutdown day took front and center with several players. Antonio Chatman, Chris Pressley, DeDe Dorsey and Brian Leonard had dinner, talking about it. Andrew Whitworth and his wife Melissa sat on the couch talking about losing friends. The battle between Brian Leonard, DeDe Dorsey and Bernard Scott at running back. The battle of Corey Lynch and Tom Nelson, who took a carriage ride downtown, at safety. Then there's Chris Pressley and Fui Vakapuna at fullback; which with this episode made you think that the Bengals are definitely going with two fullbacks. You get the feeling that Chris Pressley will make the team, based on the impression that the coach's favor his physical play. During one practice, Pressley had to have his busted facemask replaced. We still haven't gotten to the part where Muhammad Ali joined the Bengals during Training Camp in Georgetown College.

Funny moments.

Pulling into the garage underneath Paul Brown stadium, Marvin Lewis couldn't pull in because the gate was broken; or at least not responding to the proxy card. So he jumped the curb and got in, laughing his unique laugh.
Chad Ochocinco chatted with his girlfriend, who said that Chad faked being in a wheelchair to get a seat next to her. He then faked that he needed to use her cell phone, and put his number in it. Brilliant!
Jordan Palmer promoted his site, runpee.com, which points out times during a movie in which you can go to the bathroom.

Good Moments

Bobbie Williams helped Jason Shirley on the sidelines during practice, who was absolutely obliterating guys against the St. Louis Rams.
Mike Zimmer told Tank Johnson, who called Bill Walsh Donnie, that the only thing that could bring Johnson down is himself.
The team's clubhouse assistant, James Brown, was profiled momentarily. The players and coaches love him. And before each game, Brown leads them onto the field.
During the same game, Carson Palmer pulled Bernard Scott aside, telling him not to worry about the fumble. All that matters, he said, is how you respond.
He gave the same advise to Jordan, who threw an interception on a pass intended for Chris Henry.
While not really a good moment, it was actually nice to see Marvin Lewis talk to a guy that was waived from the team. In this case, he sat with defensive tackle Pernell Phillips, advising him to keep working and maybe another team will pick him up; or the Bengals could sign him to the practice squad.
Tank and Roy Williams went to the Reds game with the Los Angeles Dodgers in town, and got a chance to speak with Joe Torre.
Marvin Lewis advised the team (aka Chad Ochocinco) about Twittering.

Oh Boy moments

Do you get the feeling that when the players enter the lockerroom, that they nervously walk past Jim Lippincott, who leans against the wall waiting for the players he has to tell is getting waived?
The relationship and conversation between Katie Blackburn and Alvin Keels presents the most awkward moments of the show.
I don't hate Mike Brown as a man or anything other than an NFL owner. But when he's on the show, I just bury my head.
Replayed the game against the Rams, which ended with Augustus Parrish's disastrous attempt at blocking a guy who would eventually sack Jordan Palmer, who fumbled the ball. Game over.
The show ended with Andre Smith's signing and subsequent broken foot.

Langston Moore signing is likely a numbers thing; ESPN features Bengals (joy); nervous about Carson Palmer?

Kirkendall — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:00:23 -0000

+ One of our newest residents Jake wrote on Monday that the Bengals signed former 2003 Draft Pick, Langston Moore. What does this mean for the team's depth chart? Most likely nothing. But we have a relatively fair guess. Before the signing, the Bengals had five defensive tackles on roster: Domata Peko, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson, Clinton McDonald and Pernell Phillips (note: McDonald is actually listed as a defensive end on Bengals.com, but as a defensive tackle on the depth chart).

Phillips hasn't taken a preseason snap yet and he's likely going to miss the game Thursday. It wouldn't make sense to play Sims, Peko and Tank through the entire meaningless preseason game, which leaves McDonald. So the Bengals signed Moore to fill in during the latter stages of the preseason game in an effort to conserve the main rotation guys. Of course, it's just a guess. But a fair guess, we think.

Reader firstPick asked John Thornton about the move, to which Thornton said, "Good move. He's a good inside rusher. I hope he gets a shot 2 stick. I hated to see him cut 3yrs ago." Makes sense. If Phillips can't play during the preseason, then why not hold onto Moore if he performs and make Phillips a practice squad candidate?

+ ESPN's Elizabeth Merrill details the Bengals disaster since Mike Brown became the team's owner in the early 90s. Brown is quoted in the piece as saying, "Do I think we will be perpetually down? I do not. I've seen every team in this league when it was down. And the lesson from that is you can come back and fly high." The problem with this is that the Bengals haven't flown anywhere after being down. Consider that from 1991 to 2000, the Bengals achieved .500 one time (1996). During that same time-frame, they've won five games or less in seven of ten seasons. In the nine seasons since, the Bengals achieved .500 four times, winning five games or less in only three seasons. Am I really saying anything we haven't said before?

+ Carson Palmer didn't practice on Monday, the third straight day, and is doubtful to take the field on Thursday against the Rams. The issue:

"I can throw, but not drop back right now," he said. "I'm trying to keep my arm in shape, basically. I'll take it day-to-day."

While there's no report that indicates anyone should be worried, forgive me for being worried. We know what happens when Palmer doesn't play. The training staff hasn't been noted as exactly being the front runners of player recovery in the league. Secondly, Palmer is hurt. I'm freaking out right now.

More, more, more.

Former Bengals safety Kevin Kaesviharn signed with the Carolina Panthers on Monday.

Backup guard Evan Mathis is taking snaps place of Jonathan Luigs, who hasn't practiced at all this week.

Bengals offensive coordinator likes what he sees with Jason Shirley's conversion to the offensive line:

"It's going pretty good," he said. He added Shirley had a pancake block against the Pats, but Bratkowski also said, "I'm not sure he's quite ready to play in the regular season, but he shows potential."

Players likely out this week against the Rams:

Shayne Graham (groin), defensive tackle Pernell Phillips (leg), tight end Matt Sherry (shoulder), defensive end Antwan Odom (Achilles), wide receiver Antonio Chatman (ankle), cornerback David Jones (foot), and tight end Ben Utecht (concussion).

Who Dey Fans is right. Peter King mentions the Bengals. And doesn't talk about us like the terrorists of the NFL. That's progress, right?

Marvin Lewis received the "Steve Patterson Award for Excellence in Sports Philanthropy, in recognition of the impact of his work and the example it sets for all of professional sports."

Running back Brian Leonard is looking forward to this week's game against this old team.

Levi Jones' name is being thrown around in Seattle.

The offseason boxing regiment that Chad Ochocinco Johnson used to train, has him confident enough to call out Andre Berto.

The Washington Post's The League, asked me if I were Chancellor Roger Goodell, what policy on Twitter would I implement? I didn't make one thing clear. If Twitter updates are made about the person that hasn't anything to do with the team, league or other players that could possibly give another team a competitive advantage, then that's cool.

For your get to know your opponent file. Five things to know | Camp Tour

Strength in numbers; an examination of who the Bengals started the regular season since 2006

Kirkendall — Sun, 23 Aug 2009 17:05:45 -0000

When the preseason marches towards a welcomed conclusion, discussion and debate takes place on who the team cuts and keeps. Sometimes the topic goes into salary cap causalities; veterans that are cut, like Willie Anderson and Rudi Johnson last year. Other times, the debate talks about players that surprisingly make the roster. As jsl413 broke down, the Bengals depth is strong in some areas, weak in others. Which means the Bengals could strengthen weaken positions by increasing the depth. It's a numbers game.

You see that notably with linebackers. In 2006, Brian Simmons was nearing retirement; his production was falling. David Pollack, while great with potential, was only then starting to adjust from being a defensive end in college to an outside linebacker in the NFL. Rashad Jeanty was a rookie. Landon Johnson was arguably our best linebacker. If you look back to that season, only one linebacker remains (Jeanty) with the Bengals and as far as I can tell, three are still in the NFL (Jeanty, Johnson and Ahmad Brooks). The position didn't improve in 2007 and grew worse when it was decimated by injury. Dhani Jones, an unlikely stability force who would join the team later in the year, became the most productive middle linebacker during Marvin Lewis' tenure. By 2008, the linebackers were on pace to be the most talented group assembled, taking less into the regular season while numerically increasing their numbers at other spots, like running back, defensive tackles -- two spots with limited production. You'll obviously see that again this year, with Jones, Jeanty, Rivers, Brandon Johnson and Rey Maualuga as the depth leaders.

Running backs is another example. In 2006, and even 2007, Rudi Johnson was considered the team's feature back. No competition. Hands down. After all, he set franchise rushing records in 2004 and 2005. However, along with the offensive line's degradation, he started degrading (some will note his inadvisable weight loss regiment, losing all of his strength in 2006) until he was finally cut in 2008. More importantly, the Bengals decided to take two fullbacks because Jeremi Johnson was simply not the force he used to be and the team liked Coats' enough to make room for him. While the talent level dipped, the team decided to strengthen the depth with numbers.

Take note of this. Am I saying that the depth and position is stronger because there's more players? Obviously not. You either have talent or you don't. A combination of average talent still makes that position average. But it is a luxury that most teams have, which largely depends on play-calling philosophy, as well as projecting your opponents philosophies. If you take on more defensive backs in any given year because your passing defense is poor, it allows you additional packages. But it's also dictated by strength. You will note how once the team had Leon Hall and Johnathan Joseph, they believed the position strong enough to only take four cornerbacks in 2008, as opposed to five in 2007 and 2006. Safeties increased because a long-standing issue of giving up big plays was still unanswered. You can bank on at least six safeties this year.

After the jump, you can see which players the Bengals took after cutdown day and how many players the team took at each position.

First thing we should note are the roster cut deadlines:

DATE	EVENT
September 1st	Roster cutdown to maximum of 75 players
September 5th	Roster cutdown to maximum of 53 players

Here's a breakdown on what positions the Bengals after final cutdown heading into the regular season.

Position	2006	2007	2008
Quarterbacks	3	3	3
Running backs (including FB)	4	4 (1)	5 (2)
Wide Receivers	6	6	6
Offensive Linemen	9	8	9
Tight Ends	2	3	2
Total on Offense	24	24	25

Defensive Ends	4	5	4
Defensive Tackles	4	3	5
Linebackers	8	7	6
Cornerbacks	5	5	4
Safeties	5	6	6
Total on Defense	26	26	25

Specialists	3	3	3

After the jump, we chart which players the Bengals kept since 2006.

2006

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson
RB / FB	4	Rudi Johnson, Kenny Watson, Quincy Wilson, Jeremi Johnson (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Chris Henry, Tab Perry, Antonio Chatman, Kelley Washington
O-Line	9	Levi Jones, Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Bobbie Williams, Willie Anderson, Andrew Whitworth, Eric Ghiaciuc, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra
TE	2	Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

DE	4	Justin Smith, Bryan Robinson, Robert Geathers, Frostee Rucker
DT	4	Sam Adams, John Thornton, Domata Peko, Shaun Smith
Linebackers	8	Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, David Pollack, Rashad Jeanty, Marcus Wilkins, Ahmad Brooks, A.J. Nicholson, Caleb Miller
Corners	5	Deltha O'Neal, Tory James, Johnathan Joseph, Keiwan Ratliff, Greg Brooks
Safeties	5	Dexter Jackson, Madieu Williams, Kevin Kaesviharn, Ethan Kilmer, Herana-Daze Jones

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

2007

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jeff Rowe
RB / FB	4	Rudi Johnson, Kenny Watson, Clinton Dawson, Jeremi Johnson (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Tab Perry, Glenn Holt, Skyler Green, Antonio Chatman
O-Line	8	Levi Jones, Willie Anderson, Bobbie Williams, Andrew Whitworth, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra, Eric Ghiaciuc, Alex Stepanovich
TE	3	Reggie Kelly, Daniel Coats, Nate Lawrie

DE	5	Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Bryan Robinson, Frostee Rucker, Jonathan Fanene
DT	3	Domata Peko, John Thornton, Michael Myers
Linebackers	7	Ahmad Brooks, Rashad Jeanty, Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Lemar Marshall, Andre Frazier, Anthony Schlegel
Corners	5	Deltha O'Neal, Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph, Keiwan Ratliff, David Jones
Safeties	6	Dexter Jackson, Chinedum Ndukwe, Madieu Williams, Marvin White, Herana-Daze Jones, Ethan Kilmer

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

2008

Position	#	Players
Quarterbacks	3	Carson Palmer, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Jordan Palmer
RB / FB	5	Chris Perry, Kenny Watson, DeDe Dorsey, Jeremi Johnson (FB), Daniel Coats (FB)
WR	6	Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Glenn Holt, Antonio Chatman, Andre Caldwell, Jerome Simpson
O-Line	9	Stacy Andrews, Levi Jones, Eric Ghiaciuc, Bobbie Williams, Andrew Whitworth, Dan Santucci, Kyle Cook, Scott Kooistra, Anthony Collins
TE	2	Reggie Kelly, Ben Utecht

DE	4	Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Jonathan Fanene, Frostee Rucker
DT	5	Domata Peko, John Thornton, Jason Shirley, Pat Sims, Michael Myers
Linebackers	6	Keith Rivers, Rashad Jeanty, Dhani Jones, Darryl Blackstock, Brandon Johnson, Corey Mays
Corners	4	Leon Hall, Johnathan Joseph, Simeon Castille, David Jones
Safeties	6	Dexter Jackson, Kyries Hebert, Herana-Daze Jones, Corey Lynch, Chinedum Ndukwe, Marvin White

Specialists	3	Shayne Graham, Kyle Larson, Brad St. Louis

Marvin Lewis: Shirley has some value to be a developmental guy on offense

Kirkendall — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:48:15 -0000

We figured a few days ago when the Bengals decided to move Jason Shirley from defensive tackle to offensive guard, that Shirley was basically put on the clock. Since the team believed enough in Pernell Phillips, along with Domata Peko, Pat Sims and Tank Johnson, the team felt strongly that defensive tackle was stocked and that Shirley would have been the odd man out. A benefit of moving Shirley to guard, is that if the team finds itself suddenly short-handed during a game, he can hop to the other side of the ball. Hopefully he doesn't actually hop. That's not a manly thing to do.

Rather than setting him up to be released before the regular season, the Bengals felt his best chance to stay with the team was to move him to offense. "In order for him to have an opportunity to stay here in the NFL, his best bet, at least on this team, was to make that move," Marvin Lewis said during Wednesday's press conference. "As we looked at him and watched him, he does things that are more characteristic of an offensive lineman than a defensive lineman, and maybe there’s a niche for him there."

In the little time that Shirley's had to make the transition, he's convincing Lewis that he could, at least, be a project/developmental player.

“He has really embraced that opportunity, and proved that maybe he has some value to stay here and be a developmental guy over there on the offensive side. He’s trying to study and get up to speed as quickly as he can, I don’t know if he will get the chance to play on the offensive side any this week, but he may take some snaps on the defensive side.”

The Bengals have always held onto project/developmental players, sometimes longer than fans have felt they should have. Stacy Andrews is the most notable project player when he was drafted in 2004, playing in spots until he made his first start in 2006. Outside Linebacker and Defensive End Eric Henderson was a project player until the team tired of being constantly injured, releasing him earlier this year.

Fantasy Football Update; Antonio Chatman hurt, has his Bengals career ended?

Kirkendall — Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:23:02 -0000

More photos » by Al Behrman - AP

4 months ago: Cincinnati Bengals rookie defensive tackle Clinton McDonald waits for the snap during practice at their NFL football training camp, Saturday, Aug. 1, 2009, in Georgetown, Ky. (AP Photo/Al Behrman)

Browse more photos »

First things first; updates and reminders you should know. The premiere of Hard Knocks debuts Wednesday night at 10 PM on HBO. Excited? Nervous? Anxious? I'm really looking forward to behind-the-scene material, like meetings. The Bengals head to New Orleans to play the Saints on Friday. Bob Bratkowski said that Carson Palmer will play the first series, and maybe the second depending on the length of the first. Bratkowski also wants to "intersperse" backups with the starters to see "quality competition." We'll be here at CJ, blogging the game in an open thread (you expected anything else on a Friday night? Don't worry, I'm already sleeping on the couch).

Fantasy Football Leagues. I've decided to hold the Fantasy Football drafts for both leagues AFTER the preseason, during the week leading up to the regular season. I'm doing this for one simple reason. Injuries. I don't want anyone drafting impact players that go on the Injured Reserve at any point during the regular season. That always screws someone -- and that someone tends to just say "to hell with it." And if you assumed that someone is me, you'd be correct. Also, since there's 24 teams in each league, plus 15 NFL players for each team, there will be 360 players drafted. Jesus. What do you guys think of 30 seconds per pick?

We have two full leagues right now. Cincy Jungle Varsity (I'm trying to change its name from 2009) and Cincy Jungle Stragglers. As it happens, both leagues filled up quickly leaving out others who regularly work at internet oppressive companies. So here's the deal. I'll create a third league IF there's enough interest. So email me. Tell me you want to play. If I get enough emails, I'll make an announcement (and warn you prior to the announcement). To accommodate people that work at internet oppressive companies, the announcement for signups will be made at night -- roughly 10 PM. Once I get the feeling that at least 24 people will sign up, then we'll create a third league and call it Cincy Jungle Nightmen (if that's not a totally cool fantasy football league name, then give us suggestions). Nightwatchers? Anyway.

Now, onto some observations.

With Chatman's injury, will Purify rise to the chance?

+ When I watched Antonio Chatman limp back to the huddle after being tackled during last Friday's intrasquad scrimmage, I thought to myself, "surprise, surprise, surprise." Chatman suffered a groin injury during the 2006 preseason, sat the first three games, played the following three games and reaggravated the groin in the sixth game. He was placed on IR. Chatman has missed 22 games in his three-year career with the Bengals, most due to injury.

His limping on Friday was the result of a sprained ankle, writes Bengals.com. "Chatman looks to have a severe enough sprain that he could be out three weeks."

What does that mean in the grande scheme of things? After the top-four receivers (dubbed "C to the fourth" -- Chad, Coles, Caldwell, Chris), Jerome Simpson and Chatman round out the top six; a standard number of receivers most teams take when setting their regular season roster. If Chatman is released, then you have to figure either Freddie Brown or Maurice Purify gets the nod. Brown is a practice squad candidate and Bob Bratkowski said that Purify "is making a run" after a solid Training Camp to this point.

Either way, I believe the question should be asked. With Chatman's propensity of being injured, along with a 21-catch season (194 yards receiving) being his career year with the Bengals (he had a 49-catch season in 2005 with the Packers), do you believe that Chatman makes the team? Chatman is 30 years old, often injured; you have to believe that any one of the younger players fighting for a roster spot could mirror the results.

+ A reader at Who Dey Revolution had a nice statistical breakdown of the team's wins during Mike Browns tenure as owner and president. It's broken down by wins in the first half of the season, the second half, and the opposing team's record at the end of the season. Of the team's last 11 wins, one has come against a playoff team -- the Titans in 2007. Growing up with baseball as my primary love before discovering football, I've always had this terrible addiction to stats. However stats in football is often the most misleading category when it comes to analysis.

Naturally, I want more. What's the Bengals winning percentage against playoff teams? What's the winning percentage against teams that they should beat (aka teams with a similar winning percentage when they meet; not at the end of the season)? For instance, the New York Jets and Cincinnati Bengals were an identical 1-5 when they meet in 2007. The Bengals won 38-31. The Cincinnati Bengals were 4-8 when they hosted the 3-9 St. Louis Rams. The Bengals won 19-10. It doesn't predict or prove much, other than how you do against playoff teams and how well you do against teams that you're supposed to beat.

+ Hobson thinks that Jason Shirley's move to guard is basically a last ditch effort to keep the former defensive tackle on the team, saying the Bengals have "too many young defensive tackles they think can play", concluding that "Shirley doesn't seem to have moved past the project stage."

Can you say, bubble?

Depth Chart Changes: Jason Shirley moves to guard; Tank Johnson beats out Pat Sims

Kirkendall — Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:18:03 -0000

On Monday morning the Bengals updated their depth chart, via the Bengals.com website.

One of the most glaring changes is that the Bengals moved Jason Shirley from defensive tackle to left guard behind Nate Livings. Jason Shirley. Now a guard. Convinced of this move, the Bengals changed his number from #97 to #70. Interesting. It makes you believe that this is a move to keep Shirley on the team; even though he's losing out battles at his native position. Stay tuned.

Tank Johnson beat out Pat Sims for the starting right defensive tackle position. I suppose it was a matter of time. Johnson is an established player, with pockets of really good play. On the other hand, Sims, while he had some good plays last year, is still young, inexperienced. This is a good Training Camp battle which should immensely improve this line. And don't worry about Sims; based on the team's discussion defensive tackle rotation, he's likely to have his share of snaps.

Also on defense, Michael Johnson's two sacks this weekend and Frostee Rucker's recent inactivity has swapped the two on the depth chart behind Antwan Odom. Rucker is the third-string right defensive end, and possibly a bubble-cut player (on the bubble for being cut).

Jeremi Johnson beat out Fui Vakapuna for the rights to start at fullback. Johnson has done well since coming back on his re-invention tour. He's at a manageable weight and he's contributing in the passing game when he can. Also due to inactivity because of injury, Dan Santucci lost his backup spot at center for rookie Jonathan Luigs.

Not reflective of the site's changes, Joe Reedy writes that "Augustus Parrish is the backup left tackle and Dennis Roland is backing up Anthony Collins at right tackle." He also points out that Coats is listed as the starter over Ben Utecht.

Bengals Release their 2009 Depth Chart for Training Camp

Kirkendall — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 18:24:30 -0000

On Tuesday, Bengals.com published the team's 2009 Depth Chart -- which is likely to change from now until meeting, and destroying, the Denver Broncos in September. Any surprises? J.T. O'Sullivan is the team's starting quarterback. Kidding. Kidding.

Kenny Watson is listed as the backup running back with Brian Leonard on third-team and Bernard Scott on the honorable "Other" column. Fui Vakapuna starts over J.D Runnels as the team's feature fullback while Jeremi Johnson is listed third on the chart and Chris Pressley a distant fourth. No real surprises at wide receiver with Chad Johnson and Laveranues Coles starting. Chris Henry and Andre Caldwell are the team's first backups. Andre Smith is listed as the starting right tackle (which is expected, but could change). Chase Coffman is listed under "Other", behind Reggie Kelly, Ben Utecht and Daniel Coats, who is apparently moving back to tight end.

Defensively, the team lists their safeties as Roy Williams (strong) and Chris Crocker (free) -- acquisitions picked up dating back to the middle of last season. Chinedum Ndukwe and Marvin White, two of the team's 2007 draft picks, are the primary backups. Rashad Jeanty is listed over Rey Maualuga (which we expected) and Domata Peko and Pat Sims start at tackle. Jason Shirley and Tank Johnson are rotating in as backups and rookie Clinton McDonald is listed as a third-teamer. Michael Johnson, another rookie, is listed as the team's third-string defensive end behind Frostee Rucker.

Not many surprises. Most of what happens during Training Camp will shift everything around; so there's really little stock on the depth chart -- other than further confirming that football season is near!