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Predicting the Cincinnati Bengals' 53-man roster. A look into the minds of CincyJungle writers

Kirkendall — Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:05:53 -0000

On Friday, Josh (Kirkendall), Craig (A Pragmatic Bengals Fan), Chris (IFChris) and Jake (jsl413) sat in a room and decided to take on the task filling out the 53-man roster. While initially our intended goal was based on prediction, we also set the roster with players that we think makes the team stronger. For example, our more radical idea that might not be on the mind of the Bengals brass, is to take four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends. We thought that keeping four good running backs and two good full backs would make the team far more stronger than simply adding a third tight end that's currently on the roster; or some tight end that another team released. Even if Dorsey is the fourth running back, he's a strong contributor on special teams. So he makes the team stronger, in our minds. Anyway.

Let's get right to it. Here's our 53-man roster.

Quarterback (3)	Carson Palmer	Defensive End (4)	Antwan Odom
	J.T. O'Sullivan		Robert Geathers
	Jordan Palmer		Michael Johnson
			Jonathan Fanene
Running back (4)	Cedric Benson
	Bernard Scott	Defensive Tackle (4)	Pat Sims
	Brian Leonard		Domata Peko
	DeDe Dorsey		Tank Johnson
			Langston Moore
Fullbacks (2)	Jeremi Johnson
	Fui Vakapuna	Linebackers (7)	Keith Rivers
			Dhani Jones
Tight Ends (2)	Daniel Coats		Rey Maualuga
	Chase Coffman		Rashad Jeanty
			Brandon Johnson
Wide Receiver (6)	Chad Ochocinco		Abdul Hodge
	Laveranues Coles		Darryl Blackstock
	Chris Henry
	Andre Caldwell	Secondary (9)	Johnathan Joseph
	Jerome Simpson		Leon Hall
	Quan Cosby		Chris Crocker
			Chinedum Ndukwe
Offensive Line (9)	Andrew Whitworth		Roy Williams
	Bobbie Williams		Kyries Hebert
	Nate Livings		Tom Nelson
	Kyle Cook		Morgan Trent
	Anthony Collins		David Jones
	Andre Smith
	Scott Kooistra	Special Teams (3)	Shayne Graham
	Jonathan Luigs		Kevin Huber
	Dennis Roland		Brad St. Louis

There's several notable players missing. For example, after some debate, we elected to keep Jason Shirley off the roster, thinking he could be a Marvin Lewis project; which could force him on the practice squad if he clears waivers. In our minds, he's just not ready yet. Marvin White missed the cut; not because of anything he did, but we felt others were surpassing him. However, we shouldn't be surprised if he makes the team. Antonio Chatman's history is too much for a roster spot and a debate broke out between keeping Cosby and Maurice Purify. And we all loved Dan Stuka.

Stay with us all day as we analyze the team's roster cuts as they come through.

Here's a transcript of our entire conversation, or round table, that shows how we came to the conclusion on our 53-man roster.

TRANSCRIPT

Josh Kirkendall: We have 75 players and 53 spots. So by the end of the day, we'll be eliminating 22 players. I know you guys agree that quarterback is relatively easy enough. So let's get to the meat and potatoes of the topic. Running back.
Craig: Wow, diving right in.
Jake: Well running back, to me, is going to be Cedric Benson, Brian Leonard, and Bernard Scott. Just a question of if they keep four. They will want to protect Scott, and they went out and traded for Leonard, so they must see something in him
Craig: I agree with Jake, but not on the order. I think it'll be Benson, Scott, and Leonard. If they keep 4, obviously DeDe Dorsey will stick. Odd man out is James Johnson.
Jake: I honestly think we'll see Scott/Leonard split 2nd string duties. They're both pretty good.
Josh: I agree. I think Cedric and Scott are locks. And Scott and Dorsey have the same skillset. So if the team goes with three running backs, then Dorsey is the odd man out. However, if they go four, then do the Bengals only keep Jeremi Johnson at full back? Many, including the coaches, have high praise with Chris Pressley.
Jake: I don't think they'll risk just keeping Johnson at FB. If they do, they'll definitely put Pressley on the practice squad.
Josh: Last year, the Bengals took three running backs and 2 fullbacks.
Craig: As much as I like Vakapuna's ceiling, you can't let go of a guy who bent a friggin' facemask. Pressley has to stay if at all possible.
Josh: Do you think there's a chance that they keep Johnson and Vakapuna, but put Pressley on the practice squad. In terms of exposure, or notoriety, more people recognize Vakapuna's name more than Pressley's.
Craig: I think Hard Knocks may make it tough to sneak Pressley through to the PS, honestly.
Josh: Good point.

(Chris wakes from his slumber)

Chris: So is Kenny Watson done?
Jake: He was cut a while ago.
Chris: (sigh)
Josh: If the Bengals go four running backs, then who is the fullback?
Chris: Fui
Craig: I think, unfortunate as it is, that JJ is the first FB on the roster. Redeemer and all.
Jake: I think Jeremi Johnson is completely capable as long as he keeps in shape. He had a couple of excellent seasons, remember.
Josh: I agree there. JJ makes the squad as the starting fullback.
Chris: From the limited stuff I've seen, I like what Fui brings.
Josh: Now, if the Bengals take three running backs, who is your backup fullback?
Craig: At this point, I think that Pressley is the second man on the roster. The coaches in the meetings said, point blank, that Pressley is the best blocker.
Josh: You've seen on Hard Knocks how much the coaches play his tough style. Didn't Mike Brown ask what a fullback does?
Chris: Wow
Jake: They love physicality. They want to compete with Baltimore and Pittsburgh.
Craig: That's why I hate Johnson being around. There's no reason to not keep Fui and Pressley around. Jake hits it on the head. Pressley gives them the best chance at pancaking the linebacking corps of the AFC North.
Chris: So who's the starter?
Craig: Johnson.
Chris: Gotcha
Josh: An interesting thought is keeping Johnson and Vakapuna and sneak Pressley through Waivers for the practice squad. How many squads are looking for a FB anyway? He might not be that well known. Though I think Craig is right about Hard Knocks documenting him so much. Damned Hard Knocks.

Josh: I had an interesting thought. What if the Bengals go with four running backs, two fullbacks and only two tight ends? And you know that Coats and Chase make the squad. It's a weakened position anyway and I don't expect signing someone that make us instantly better. Plus the offense has never really utilized the TE position.
Jake: When was the last time they carried only 2 tight ends?
Josh: Actually, they only kept two last year and in 2006.
Craig: That's actually a good though, Josh. I like that.
Jake: Interesting. Well, given how shallow it is, I guess two isn't a bad idea. They can use Andre Smith at a TE in goalline packages.
Craig: They can toss that around, if he ever gets in shape.
Chris: I was going more for fullback for Andre
Jake: No way a 350 pounder can play anywhere but on the line of scrimmage.
Craig: Again...did you see the fat guy waddle he was rocking in last week's Hard Knocks? Dude looked terrrrrible.
Josh: The thought is that you keep the running back and fullback position strong, while keeping TE status quo. The question at this point is who will be available after cut down day that the team could sign that would make the tight ends better. And does Foschi really make your squad better than, say, Dorsey and/or Pressley?
Craig: Absolutely not would be the answer to your question, Josh.
Jake: Does Pressley have the ability to learn TE?
Josh: Like a hybrid?
Jake: Yeah, like Coats. Except better.
Josh: I will make another prediction that Foschi makes the practice squad. Of the things he's shown, he's not bad. Needs some refinement; could he could be a decent third TE in this league.
Chris: I like the two tight ends and it keeps a space in off chance Utecht ever gets healthy. Which is doubtful
Josh: Utecht is out for the year. On IR.
Craig: I doubt we see him ever again.
Chris: Me too
Josh: That could depend on Coats.
Craig: I don't mind Coats, but I don't think anyone sees him as a long term answer to anything? Pressley wouldn't be a bad option as a RB/FB hybrid. How are his hands?
Josh: To be honest, I'm not sure. He didn't have a catch this preseason.
Chris: Coffman is obviously being groomed here.
Chris: Keep in mind, Kelly might be healthy next season too
Josh: I'm not sure he'll be back either. He's UFA after this year
Craig: I look for big things from Coffman, just not this year. Not early, anyway. I wouldn't mind seeing Kelly come back as a coach in some capacity.
Josh: Yea, he's a strong lockerroom presence. The team respects him alot.
Chris: If he still wants to play, I'd sign to a one-year at least
Craig: Absolutely.
Chris: Make him Chase's personal coach
Jake: Chase isn't going be anything like Kelly was though. He's not the blocking type. Although if he developed strength, that's something he could work on this year, that would be a bonus.
Josh: There's a lot of interesting thoughts here. But the question is, what do we do? Do we keep 3RB/2FB/3TE or 4 RB/1FB/3TB or 4RB/2FB/2TE? I like the latter. The 4RB/2FB/2TE.
Chris: The latter
Craig: I say 4/2/2. I think that's the best way to keep the most talent on the squad.
Jake: I'd say 4 2 2
Josh: Sweet.

Josh: So who is the second fullback? I favor Pressley. Though I believe the team will go with Vakapuna.
Craig: I really think its Pressley, which means we'll lose Fui.
Chris: If the staff says Pressley is the better blocker...
Craig: Although, check that; Mike Brown is in the equation. The coaches want Pressley, but I bet dollars to doughnuts that Mike goes with the draft pick.
Josh: I wouldn't doubt that.
Craig: So are we agreed on Vakapuna then, even reluctantly?
Chris: I want the best blocker
Josh: I'm honestly not sure.
Jake: I'd assume we keep the draft pick. Pressley to the practice squad.
Chris: Then yeah, the draft pick
Craig: If he makes it there
Josh: I think I favor Pressley, but I see the team taking Fui.
Chris: Fui is supposed to be a good pass-catcher

(Josh departs momentarily)

Craig: What are your guys' plans for the holiday weekend?
Chris: I cannot wait for tomorrow. College football overdose.
Jake: Party?
Craig: I know! I have a wedding to attend tomorrow, then I'll be at the Canfield Fair all day on Sunday. Performing in a big show Sunday night.
Chris: Yes, absolutely a party
Jake: All my friends are away.
Craig: It's all right, you'll have several college athletes to keep you company!
Chris: Beer and college football. That'll be all the friends we need.

Josh: I believe the top four wide receivers are set: Chad Ochocinco, Laveranues Coles, Chris Henry, and Andre Caldwell. I think the team keeps Jerome Simpson simply because he was the team's second round pick last year. There are four wide receivers competing for that last spot. Now, do you guys believe Simpson makes the squad? If so, then who will be the sixth? I believe Quan Cosby makes it.
Jake: I think Simpson definitely makes it. He's flashed some skills.
Craig: It's down to Purify or Cosby for me if Simpson stays; which I think he does also.
Jake: I didn't see enough of the game last night to make the call if Cosby makes it
Craig: Cosby didn't do much if anything last night, but neither did Purify; if I recall correctly, anyway. Again, I missed the first half.
Chris: Simpson stays.
Josh: What about Antonio Chatman? He could be a Marvin Lewis favorite, making the squad by default. Purify's only advantage is that he has more receptions than Cosby. Cosby has none on offense, by the way.
Jake: How could Chatman possibly make it at this point?
Craig: Man. Forgot about Chatman, completely.
Josh: I don't see it either.
Craig: I think I agree. Chatman has to be out.
Jake: I mean, I guess I see that he's Marvin’s boy, but man, please, no.
Josh: Then you have Freddie Brown.
Chris: He can't stay over Cosby or Purify? Or won't I guess
Craig: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Caldwell, Simpson, Purify for Craig. Tom Nelson makes Cosby expendable/PS candidate.
Josh: They could justify that Chatman, when healthy, is the better receiver on offense. And to be honest, I would agree. However, the durability issue makes it impossible for me to keep.
Craig: I don't see Chatman outplaying Purify at this point. Not even close. Although, when healthy, yeah. I suppose.
Chris: Ocho, Coles, Henry, Simpson, Caldwell, Chatman
Josh: Wow. We're totally split on this one. I predict Cosby, only because of his punt return potential. Chris has Chatman, Craig has Purify and Jake just hates Chatman.
Chris: I have Chatman because he's Marvin's boy and has experience with the team.
Jake: I don't like any of the options at number six.
Josh: I honestly can see that, Chris.
Craig: I'd like to see Cosby stick, I really would. Maybe they practice squad Purify again if Chatman doesn't stick.
Jake: He hasn't played or practiced. No way Chatman makes it
Chris: Yeah, that's true too. If not Chatman, Cosby. But Purify is damn physical for his size.
Jake: Cosby has some good special teams utility, but I don't think he has enough to stick. Bernard Scott looked great in that kick return.
Craig: I just hate to see them maybe lose Purify. The guy's a beast physically.
Chris: That's true. More so than Cosby
Josh: So it's between Cosby and Purify. Let's take a vote.
Chris: I'm changing my vote again
Craig: He made Roy Williams look like a fool in the Oklahoma.
Chris: Damn persuasive up in here
Josh: That was embarrassing as hell for Roy.
Craig: That said, first punt return for touchdown in, what, five years?
Josh: Who was also trying to cop out of the drills with Coles.
Jake: Purify is my vote.
Chris: I voted for Cosby for punt return. But the Scott point made perfect sense.
Craig: I'm so glad I'm not making this decision for the team! Don't forget Tom Nelson's 44-yard return last week either.
Josh: Alright, Purify?
Craig: The more they're going to want to use Scott in the offense the less they're going to use him in the return game, remember.
Josh: Good point, Craig.
Chris: I hate that concept
Josh: I think Scott would be kickoff return anyway, not punt return.
Jake: If they keep four running backs, Scott won't get much playing time. We think they keep 4 RB, so Scott can return kicks and play on some third downs.
Josh: Dorsey could too.
Craig: Ah! Okay. Ocho. Coles. Henry. Caldwell. Simpson. Cosby. That's my final answer.
Josh: But the issue is punt return; Scott hasn't returned a punt yet. Cosby, in the preseason, returned seven punts and Nelson got six.
Craig: Purify to the practice squad for the second year running.
Chris: I’m back on Cosby again
Josh: OK, time for final vote.
Chris: Cosby
Craig: Cosby
Jake: I think Cosby will make it. Sorry. I want Purify.
Josh: I can see why. You're right. He is a beast.
Craig: I'd be okay with Cosby, really. We have enough talent on offense that I think the 6th WR has to contribute in other ways anyway, so Cosby is the better call the more I think about it.
Josh: I just think that Cosby brings more immediate contributions. Purify isn't a returner and I highly doubt he gets any playing time with Chad, Coles, Henry and Caldwell in front.

Josh: In 2006 and 2008, the Bengals took nine offensive linemen. In 2007, they kept eight. We can assume they're keeping Andre Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Kyle Cook, Nate Livings, Anthony Collins, Andre Smith, Jonathan Luigs and Scott Kooistra. So we're left with one spot left.
Jake: Jason Shirley
Josh: OK, there's two thoughts here. We could go with eight and be done.
Craig: Well, if we do keep nine including Shirley or someone else, which position is left to suffer?
Josh: The issue with a ninth is that we could be cutting into the defensive roster -- which might not be a bad idea because they seem like the stronger of the two units.
Chris: Or keep eight and keep Purify. But yeah, I see the point about not hurting the defense as bad
Josh: And I disagree with Shirley. While he's literally throwing guys when blocking, I just don't think he's ready to make the roster. He's the typical Marvin Lewis project guy. I think he's still eligible for the practice squad. I think Dennis Roland has a better shot.
Chris: "literally throwing guys when blocking" Is a hard talent to ignore, even if he is a little raw.
Craig: Shirley should be eligible for the practice squad, but I'd bet good money that we'd lose him in the process, especially with him being such a mauler at guard.
Josh: I agree, Chris. That's why I think they'll hope he clears waivers. It wasn't so long ago that Marvin Lewis said flatly on Hard Knocks that Shirley's last chance to make the squad at all was to convert to the offense. In reality, the question is do you want to keep a fourth guard, or a fourth tackle.
Craig: Fourth tackle, for my money. How are we looking at Andre Smith in this equation? Are we actually talking about a fifth tackle?
Josh: That's why I think Roland's the better choice right now. Think of it this way. If Smith doesn't return soon, and god forbid, Whitworth or Collins goes down, we're out of tackles.
Chris: I need a beer
Josh: Sure, Kooistra can play the position, but he's been working mostly guard too.
Craig: I agree with you, Josh. Roland is the smart choice here.
Josh: For now at least. If Shirley passes waivers and I believe he will, and then he's signed to the practice squad, that would be the best scenario for him.
Craig: I'm cool with that. I might be overestimating, but I do worry that he won't clear waivers.
Josh: We also have Evan Mathis and Andrew Crummey. Think those two have a shot?
Craig: I'd say Mathis more than Crummey.
Josh: Alright, full vote. Between Roland and Shirley.
Chris: Roland
Craig: 2. Reluctantly.
Jake: Humph. Roland, I guess. I'd like Shirley.
Josh: I think we all would, to be honest.
Chris: Yep. Tackle will win out, however
Josh: Alright. The offense is set. SWEET!

Craig: Sidebar: Any kind of wishing we could keep Swank?
Josh: He proved that franchising Graham was kind of redonkulous. I love that word.
Jake: Swank hasn't been that impressive. But he made what Josh said true
Craig: Makes me think of Koothrapali in Big Bang Theory.

Josh: Now, historically, the Bengals have taken eight defensive linemen. Mostly it's four defensive ends and four defensive tackles. Here's what I think are locks; Antwan Odom, Robert Geathers, Michael Johnson, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson and Domata Peko. That leaves two guys.
Craig: Rucker should be in the equation probably.
Josh: Well, you got Fanene and Rucker at defensive end. Harrington too.
Craig: Right, Fanene and Harrington the tight end.
Josh: Then you have Clinton McDonald, Langston Moore and Vernell Jenkins at DT.
Chris: I'm voting Jenkins. And you all already know that
Josh: A little UK love?
Jake: Moore's gotta make it.
Craig: Moore is a good pick too.
Chris: Absolutely
Craig: So we really need one end and one tackle. Rucker and Moore?
Josh: I think Moore is the more likely pick. Does that leave McDonald on the practice squad? As for Rucker, I think Fanene beats him out. And the only reason I say that is Rucker's durability. He has none.
Chris: True
Craig: Yeah, you're right. For some reason I always forget about Fanene.
Jake: Might be hard to deny Rucker a spot though, he has quite a bit of talent and has played well.
Craig: He's one of those guys that's just solid and makes plays.
Josh: In three seasons, Rucker has only played 16 games.
Chris: Sterling
Craig: Ouch.
Josh: I like Rucker too. I mean, the dude will catch on with easily another team.
Chris: And be healthy
Craig: And be a perennial All-Pro and eventual HoF inductee.
Chris: You got it
Josh: Cincinnati karma.
Jake: Fanene has been pretty solid though when he gets playing time.
Craig: I like Fanene for his DE/DT versatility. Similar to Bryan Robinson in that regard.
Josh: Fanene has only missed two games in the past two seasons, though he hasn't been flashy. I like his versatility too.
Craig: I think this team is at the point where they need to (at least on the defensive side of the ball) put guys in place who make plays, not guys who might make plays. This defensive unit is CLOSE.
So for his solid play and durability/versatility, my vote goes to Fanene I think.
Josh: I agree. And if Rucker stays healthy, he fits that bill. But you have to depend on the guy too.
Craig: Right. That was my primary point.
Josh: On the other hand, Harrington has two sacks this preseason.
Craig: Yeah. Crap.
Chris: That's big
Josh: Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Craig: What string was he playing against?
Josh: Not much against the first team. Not really sure if he had many first half snaps.
Craig: So that's in the equation too, kind of, sorta.
Josh: Agreed. So the question between Rucker and Fanene is health. Harrington, if he passes waivers, can be ~~the team's starting tight end and~~ join the practice squad.
Craig: So Rucker=out. Another third round pick down the tubes (3rd?). Guys? Fanene or Harrington? All considered I think it has to be Fanene.
Josh : I'm picking Fanene, only because of the question about Rucker's health.
Chris: Didn't we establish Mike Brown likes draft picks?
Craig: lol @ the TE comment. That'll never get old.
Josh: I've cried every night in my sleep after that.
Craig: So we agree that WE want Fanene. Thoughts on what will actually happen?
Josh: I actually think it'll be Fanene. He's on his second contract right now anyway. So you know the team likes him, and Jake is right, Fanene is solid.
Craig: I'm good with that, Josh.
Jake: I think Fanene will stick.
Josh : So we went with Langston Moore and Jonathan Fanene.

Josh: In respect to linebackers, the Bengals took eight in 2006, seven in 2007, and six in 2008. The locks, I think, are Keith Rivers, Dhani Jones, Rey Maualuga, Rashad Jeanty and Brandon Johnson.
Craig: Yep.
Josh: I really liked Hodge during preseason and he's a special teams contributor. I think he backs up Dhani.
Jake: Hodge absolutely sticks. Simmons will be sure of it.
Craig: Right.
Chris: That's six.
Craig: So. Maxwell? In or out?
Jake: I dunno about Maxwell.
Josh: I think Blackstock makes it, if for any reason, he can play defensive end also.
Craig: I was going to say I think Blackstock sticks. His career-ending hit on Utecht has to count for something other than wasting another of my Bengals jerseys.
Josh: Then you have Dan Stuka.
Chris: I vote for him on name alone. That's just a badass name
Craig: We need to bring back Bjork.
Jake: Reminds me too much of Ditka
Josh: There's another issue we need to consider. Do we just keep six backers and 10 in the secondary? Or seven backers and 9 in the secondary.
Craig: Got to be 7 and 9, I think.
Chris: "What's your name, punk?" "Dan STUKA." "Oh, damn. Don't mess w/that guy." "Damn right.
Chris: I'm sorry
Josh: It's a sweet football name. Then the seventh linebacker has to be Blackstock.
Craig: Absolutely. Blackstock at #7 backer.
Chris: Yes, Blackstock
Josh: Alright, we'll go with Blackstock.

Craig: So we're on to the secondary then?
Josh : Now this will be the toughest one of the night -- and the last.
Craig: Josh, locks?
Chris: (whispers) Dan Stuka will be watching us. Remember that.
Josh: I got Johnathan Joseph, Leon Hall, Chris Crocker, Chinedum Ndukwe and Roy Williams. Now, I think Tom Nelson is a close lock -- like most everyone else, I loved his play.
Craig: Hall, Joseph, Jones, Crocker, Ndukwe, Williams, Nelson would be my locks. Personally.
Josh: I agree, so Nelson makes the team?
Chris: Who's that kid that made that huge sack against the Pats?
Craig: I don't see how he can't make the team. The guy's a beast.
Josh: Chris likes Nelson too.
Chris: Yeah, him
Craig: Nelson brings versatility as I think he could be a nickel corner also.
Chris: He's certainly got the speed for nickel
Josh: I question David Jones. Is the talent in the secondary deep enough? Is Jones worth keeping, though he didn't make any preseason games?
Craig: It depends on how confident they are with either trying Nelson there or Geoff Pope.
Josh: No thanks on Pope.
Craig: Just sayin'.
Josh: Kyries Hebert is another I like that doesn't much notice, because his strength is his special teams play.
Craig: I'm glad Fletcher is already gone so we don't have to factor him in.
Josh: No doubt
Craig: Yeah, Hebert's got to stay. Led in teams tackles last year, didn't he?
Josh: Yea. We're up to seven. What about Morgan Trent? We need to start looking at cornerbacks. We've listed five safeties already.
Craig: Okay. I think Trent sticks.
Josh: Trent makes the team. You agree?
Chris: Absolutely. Haven't seen much, but what I've read.
Josh : He hasn't been bad.
Craig: So one more. Lynch? That's another safety so maybe Lynch goes.
Josh: I don't know. This is where I think David Jones squeezes in.
Craig: Yeah, more than likely.
Josh: You could also go Pope or Rico Murray.
Craig: Jones improved over last season. No. Jones is better than either of them. Practice squad Pope again, he may be ready next year.
Josh: Jones was placed on the depth chart as the third CB at the start of training camp. Do we reluctantly agree with Jones, or do you guys think we should go with six safeties and keep Lynch?
Craig: That probably depends on Nelson's cover skills.
Chris: Three cornerbacks?
Craig: I wouldn't mind keeping Lynch around, but we definitely need another corner.
Josh: What about Marvin White. We're completely excluding him.
Craig: I'm getting a headache.
Josh: We could swap out Hebert for White.
Craig: Crap, I didn't even realize that White wasn't on our list. I think that says enough about him, though. I think White goes.
Josh: Axe White?
Craig: How do you keep him over your number one special teams guy?
Josh: I'm just not sure where he'd fit in. It would be a numbers game. On the other hand, would the Bengals elect to keep White over Nelson?
Craig: A couple of years ago our special teams squad was decimated and it took over a year to shore it back up. I don't want to see that happen again.
Chris: Better not
Craig: White/Nelson. That's actually probably the best battle happening right now on defense.
Josh: Or, we could dump a running back for another guy in the secondary.
Craig: Dump Dorsey if we want to go that route.
Josh: Dump the oft-injured Dorsey for White. Now we're getting interesting.
Craig: For me? No question. None at all.
Chris: See ya
Craig: What will Mike Brown do, though?
Josh: Exactly.
Chris: Suck. That's what he'll do
Josh: I can see that.
Craig: Son of a gun. I'm stressing about this like we have any say in the matter right now, rubbing my temples and such.
Josh: LOL. We're on the last roster spot. Here's something else to consider. Dating back to 2006, the Bengals have always taken ten or more defensive backs.
Chris: STUKA. Sorry
Craig: So we're short unless we knock off Dorsey, which throws us back into the Dorsey/Leonard discussion. I really wish he hadn't have blocked/returned that punt.
Josh: In regards to Dorsey, I'm not sure if we should use a spot on him for blocking a punt. While it's nice, it's never a certainty. And with Dorsey's skillset, we have Scott.
Craig: I know that. You know that. Bratkowski talked on this week's Hard Knocks about him blocking the field goal two years ago.
Josh: Yea, it just goes to show how fickle the coaches are on the competition.
Craig: Right. I mean, I like a punt block and touchdown as much as the next guy, but...
Josh: On another note, think about it this time last year. You know who we were discussing? Perry, Watson, Dorsey. So you're starting to favor cutting Dorsey for a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Wow. What a difference a year makes. Yes. Yes, I am. Dorsey goes, White stays for me.
Chris: I don't see them dumping a four-year player for a 10th defensive back. Just sayin'
Josh: I think it's a valid point. Do you get rid of Dorsey, who played redonkulous this preseason, for sheer numbers in the secondary? Instead of White, we could keep Lynch. Or we could keep Pope However, here's another point. How much playing time do we really expect Dorsey to get with Cedric, Scott and Leonard in front of him.
Chris: What if Cedric goes back to sucking?
Craig: Dorsey is just going to get hurt. Again.
Chris: Maybe more than it would first seem.
Craig: Chris, that's when Scott takes over.
Chris: Every down?
Craig: Leonard will share. I'm not worried about Cedric, though.
Chris: I am.
Josh: Honestly, if Benson goes down, then I think Leonard becomes the feature back and then Dorsey would be the team's third-down back. And if Benson sucks, then Palmer throws for 5,000 yards and 50 touchdowns. No problem.
Chris: Over Scott? Leonard.
Josh: I think Leonard has the build and style to be a feature back. Scott needs to be that change of pace guy. I would be surprised if he ever gets 15 carries this year.
Craig: LT, Josh?
Josh: You're comparing Scott to LT?
Craig: No. Just sayin'.
Chris: He's got mad skill
Josh: Hey, who knows what happens. I just don't think takes over a feature back role this year.
Craig: Okay. Does DeDe stay or go?
Chris: Stay.

Josh: Here's where we are. We have 52 players set now. We have only 9 defensive backs. The Bengals have historically taken 10 or more. We're thinking of freeing up a spot to give us a 10th, and we instinctively went right to DeDe.
Jake: I have company.
Craig: Nice.
Chris: Pics?
Josh: iPhone?

Josh: We're so close! One more... we... can... do... it... We just need to make a decision. Do we take someone out in favor of a 10th defensive back?
Craig: Okay. DeDe is long past practice squad-eligible, right? Not that it would matter, someone would snatch him up like the Colts did anyway.
Josh: You guys know that the Bengals coaches are right now talking about this.
Chris: I'm keeping Dorsey.

Langston Moore signing is likely a numbers thing; ESPN features Bengals (joy); nervous about Carson Palmer?

Kirkendall — Tue, 25 Aug 2009 11:00:23 -0000

+ One of our newest residents Jake wrote on Monday that the Bengals signed former 2003 Draft Pick, Langston Moore. What does this mean for the team's depth chart? Most likely nothing. But we have a relatively fair guess. Before the signing, the Bengals had five defensive tackles on roster: Domata Peko, Pat Sims, Tank Johnson, Clinton McDonald and Pernell Phillips (note: McDonald is actually listed as a defensive end on Bengals.com, but as a defensive tackle on the depth chart).

Phillips hasn't taken a preseason snap yet and he's likely going to miss the game Thursday. It wouldn't make sense to play Sims, Peko and Tank through the entire meaningless preseason game, which leaves McDonald. So the Bengals signed Moore to fill in during the latter stages of the preseason game in an effort to conserve the main rotation guys. Of course, it's just a guess. But a fair guess, we think.

Reader firstPick asked John Thornton about the move, to which Thornton said, "Good move. He's a good inside rusher. I hope he gets a shot 2 stick. I hated to see him cut 3yrs ago." Makes sense. If Phillips can't play during the preseason, then why not hold onto Moore if he performs and make Phillips a practice squad candidate?

+ ESPN's Elizabeth Merrill details the Bengals disaster since Mike Brown became the team's owner in the early 90s. Brown is quoted in the piece as saying, "Do I think we will be perpetually down? I do not. I've seen every team in this league when it was down. And the lesson from that is you can come back and fly high." The problem with this is that the Bengals haven't flown anywhere after being down. Consider that from 1991 to 2000, the Bengals achieved .500 one time (1996). During that same time-frame, they've won five games or less in seven of ten seasons. In the nine seasons since, the Bengals achieved .500 four times, winning five games or less in only three seasons. Am I really saying anything we haven't said before?

+ Carson Palmer didn't practice on Monday, the third straight day, and is doubtful to take the field on Thursday against the Rams. The issue:

"I can throw, but not drop back right now," he said. "I'm trying to keep my arm in shape, basically. I'll take it day-to-day."

While there's no report that indicates anyone should be worried, forgive me for being worried. We know what happens when Palmer doesn't play. The training staff hasn't been noted as exactly being the front runners of player recovery in the league. Secondly, Palmer is hurt. I'm freaking out right now.

More, more, more.

Former Bengals safety Kevin Kaesviharn signed with the Carolina Panthers on Monday.

Backup guard Evan Mathis is taking snaps place of Jonathan Luigs, who hasn't practiced at all this week.

Bengals offensive coordinator likes what he sees with Jason Shirley's conversion to the offensive line:

"It's going pretty good," he said. He added Shirley had a pancake block against the Pats, but Bratkowski also said, "I'm not sure he's quite ready to play in the regular season, but he shows potential."

Players likely out this week against the Rams:

Shayne Graham (groin), defensive tackle Pernell Phillips (leg), tight end Matt Sherry (shoulder), defensive end Antwan Odom (Achilles), wide receiver Antonio Chatman (ankle), cornerback David Jones (foot), and tight end Ben Utecht (concussion).

Who Dey Fans is right. Peter King mentions the Bengals. And doesn't talk about us like the terrorists of the NFL. That's progress, right?

Marvin Lewis received the "Steve Patterson Award for Excellence in Sports Philanthropy, in recognition of the impact of his work and the example it sets for all of professional sports."

Running back Brian Leonard is looking forward to this week's game against this old team.

Levi Jones' name is being thrown around in Seattle.

The offseason boxing regiment that Chad Ochocinco Johnson used to train, has him confident enough to call out Andre Berto.

The Washington Post's The League, asked me if I were Chancellor Roger Goodell, what policy on Twitter would I implement? I didn't make one thing clear. If Twitter updates are made about the person that hasn't anything to do with the team, league or other players that could possibly give another team a competitive advantage, then that's cool.

For your get to know your opponent file. Five things to know | Camp Tour

Bengals Sign Defensive Tackle Langston Moore

jsl413 — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 23:21:37 -0000

Joe Reedy and C. Trent tweeted about 15 minutes ago that the Bengals have brought former Bengal, defensive tackle Langston Moore, formerly of the Detroit Lions and NFC Champion Arizona Cardinals, back to Cincinnati. Moore will likely contend for a rotational position and back up Domata Peko, Tank Johnson, and rotate in with Pat Sims. Moore played in 9 games for Detroit last year, registering 12 tackles and 1 sack.

He was the first overall pick in the sixth round of the 2003 draft by the Bengals. He spent 2003 on the practice squad before playing 15 games in 2004.

Langston Moore

#79 / Detroit Lions

Height: 6-1

Weight: 305

Born: Jul 17, 1981

College: South Carolina

Breaking down and ranking drafted positions in Cincinnati since 2003

Kirkendall — Sat, 28 Mar 2009 15:47:42 -0000

Breaking down Cincinnati's draft since 2003, I wanted to see how many players were left at each position and the strength of that position based on the foundation of the team's drafted players. There were some positions I didn't bother listing. Like quarterback, since there's no emphasis of improving the position after the team drafted Carson Palmer. I didn't list Tight Ends, because the last Tight End taken before Matt Sherry in 2008, was Matt Schobel in 2002. We're not going to grade positions based on arbitrary made-up numbers and letters; rather simply point out how many players are left, and perhaps some equation of how many are (and were) starters. I placed a strong emphasis on where the team is today based on these draft picks; not how they've performed during their Cincinnati career, other than possibly being starters. We can have that discussion if you'd like, but that's not the heart of this post.

I am, however, going to rank the positions we've drafted. This is nothing more than my opinion, and not some concocted Football Outsiders formula.

Here goes.

Dating back to 2004, the Bengals have drafted eight defensive backs -- six of whom have multiple starts, two of whom are first-round draft picks. During the 2006 and 2007 draft, Lewis drafted four guys at all four defensive back positions that started at one time in multiple games. Of the nine defensive backs since 2003, five remain, one signed a rich contract with the Vikings and another helped the Colts into the playoffs. There has been talent drafted by the Bengals at defensive back.

Defensive Backs	Year	Round
Corey Lynch	2008	6
Leon Hall	2007	1
Marvin White	2007	4
Chinedum Ndukwe	2007	7
Johnathan Joseph	2006	1
Keiwan Ratliff	2004	2
Madieu Williams	2004	2
Greg Brooks	2004	7
Dennis Weathersby	2003	4

If you look at the list of offensive linemen, there is a lot of good. Eric Steinbach wasn't just a starter -- he played tackle and center. He was signed to one of the richest contracts in NFL history as a guard. Andrew Whitworth took over Steinbach's departed role as the team's starting guard, that can play tackle at a moment's notice. Anthony Collins was perhaps the biggest surprise when he was asked to block some of the league's best pass rushers at the tail-end of 2008. Stacy Andrews started several games, and left for more money in Philadelphia. While we're generally not happy about the way Ghiaciuc's career panned out, he has been the team's starting center since 2006 -- perhaps that's just lack of options? Of eight drafted offensive linemen, four remain and only one has significant starting experience -- however, Collins is on pace to be the team's starting tackle for this season and beyond.

The problem with the offensive line is the lack of players drafted that are starting today. Levi Jones was a 2002 draft pick and has possibly already played his final game in a Bengals uniform. Bobbie Williams was a free agent and Ghiaciuc and Andrews are likely gone. Heading into this season and next, the Bengals are lacking a core of drafted players because most of them have already left Cincinnati, or are, at best, backup talent.

Offensive Linemen	Year	Round
Anthony Collins	2008	4
Dan Santucci	2007	7
Andrew Whitworth	2006	2
Eric Ghiaciuc	2005	4
Adam Kieft	2005	5
Stacy Andrews	2004	4
Eric Steinbach	2003	2
Scott Kooistra	2003	7

I was conflicted with our defensive line. Since 2003, we've drafted ten defensive linemen -- six of whom remain with the team. Both of our projected starting defensive tackles are our draft picks, and the team's best pass rusher, Robert Geathers, was drafted in 2004. Toeaina was favored with some -- but having placed him on the practice squad for a significant period of time in 2007 opened the door for the Chicago Bears to sign him away. Pat Sims has a high ceiling and could be the team's starting defensive tackle for some time, while guys like Frostee Rucker, Jonathan Fanene and Jason Shirley remain fixed as backups. I don't believe we've drafted great with defensive linemen, but there we have picked up a few pieces that figure into the team's long-term vision.

Defensive Line	Year	Round
Pat Sims	2008	3
Jason Shirley	2008	5
Matt Toeaina	2007	6
Frostee Rucker	2006	3
Domata Peko	2006	4
Jonathan Fanene	2005	7
Matthias Askew	2004	4
Robert Geathers	2004	4
Langston Moore	2003	6
Elton Patterson	2003	7

I realize that ranking wide receivers could be the most premature of all positions. First of all, there was little reason to draft the best wide recever in any draft because the team had already invested in Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh -- even Peter Warrick was figuring into the team's long-term vision until a degrading knee condition suffered in 2003 ended his NFL career. Between 2003-2007, the teams drafted six wide receivers, primarily looking for depth and that viable #3 receiver. Even though he's embarrassed the team, and stunted his own growth, Chris Henry had both the talent and size to be the league's best #3 receiver. He's still with the team and reportedly working hard to have his talent and potential realized. During the last off-season (between 2007-2008), Chad Johnson cried and negotiations for T.J. Houshmandzadeh weren't going well. So the Bengals drafted three wide receivers, two of whom were thought to be replacements for both 30-plus year-old receivers. The 2008 draft was definitely considered a rebuilding draft for wideouts, therefore it's hard to really grade this. You can't based their projected careers on their rookie season's because of the talent that they had to leap-frog to get there. This season and next will be critical for them.

Wide Receivers	Year	Round
Jerome Simpson	2008	2
Andre Caldwell	2008	3
Mario Urrutia	2008	7
Ethan Kilmer	2006	7
Bennie Brazell	2006	7
Chris Henry	2005	3
Tab Perry	2005	6
Maurice Mann	2004	5
Kelly Washington	2003	3

Linebackers have always been cursed during the Marvin Lewis era. David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Ahmad Brooks and A.J. Nicholson never really had their careers realized for one reason or another -- ranging from injury, off-the-field issues to simply not being good enough. Landon Johnson started many games, led the team in tackles then left. Of the nine linebackers drafted since 2003, six have started. What makes linebackers ugly, is that only drafted linebacker remains on the team today.

Linebackers	Year	Round
Keith Rivers	2008	1
Angelo Craig	2008	7
Ahmad Brooks	2006s	3
A.J. Nicholson	2006	5
David Pollack	2005	1
Odell Thurman	2005	2
Caleb Miller	2004	3
Landon Johnson	2004	3
Khalid Abdullah	2003	5

Drafting running backs has been terrible for this team. If you exclude Jeremi Johnson, the Bengals have drafted Kenny Irons and Chris Perry since 2003. That's it. Irons' NFL career is likely over and Chris Perry has suffered through several season-long injuries that's hampered his production and development. Our ranking of running backs is mostly degraded based on the fact that we've picked up so few, and of those we did pick up, have been disappointing at best. Perry's 2005 season was cause for hope that he'd become the team's "two" or a one-two punch with Rudi Johnson -- or another powerback. That vision never fulfilled itself and if Perry isn't cut by the regular season, he's likely playing his final season in a Bengals uniform.

Running Backs	Year	Round
Kenny Irons	2007	2
Chris Perry	2004	1
Jeremi Johnson	2003	4

That's my opinion guys, what's yours?

Lions Release Six Players, Announce UFAs

Sean Yuille — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:32:15 -0000

The Lions have announced that six players were released today, including the four that were already reported. Here is the full list:

WR Mike Furrey
TE Dan Campbell
OT Jon Dunn
OG Edwin Mulitalo
CB Leigh Bodden
S Dwight Smith

Along with that announcement, the Lions also confirmed that eighteen players will become unrestricted free agents on February 27:

QB Dan Orlovsky
RB Aveion Cason
RB Rudi Johnson
FB Moran Norris
WR Keary Colbert
WR Shaun McDonald
TE John Owens
OT Damion Cook
OT George Foster
OG Stephen Peterman
OG Andy McCollum
DE Corey Smith
DT Shaun Cody
DT Langston Moore
LB Paris Lenon
LB Ryan Nece
CB Stanley Wilson
K Jason Hanson

Cory Redding Placed on the IR; Langston Moore Re-Signed

Sean Yuille — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:19:55 -0000

Dave Birkett is reporting that the Lions have placed defensive tackle Cory Redding on the injured reserve. Redding has had knee issues this season and missed practice all this week. Because of that, the Lions decided to end his season.

To fill Redding's spot on the roster, the Lions re-signed defensive tackle Langston Moore. Moore was on the team until the end of October, which is when the Lions released him to sign fullback Darian Barnes, who only stayed in Detroit for a couple weeks.

Of the Bengals 2003 and 2004 draft class, only five players remain

Kirkendall — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:14:25 -0000

Since Carson Palmer is Carson Palmer, and Carson Palmer is total treasure to Bengals fans, Palmer becomes just one of two players that remain from the team's 2003 Draft. Two. The other? Backup guard/tackle, Scott Kooistra. Guys like Dennis Weathersby, Khalid Abullah, Elton Patterson and Langston Moore never amounted to much, other than sparse playing time in some cases, and Eric Steinbach was shown the door after witnessing two contract extensions for Willie Anderson and Levi Jones (how are those working out?).

Two. Just two. Eric Steinbach was awesome while he was here, and Jeremi Johnson was one of the best fullbacks in the league. Kelley Washington had the greatest dance numbers of all time, but never climbed the depth charts above third (then Chris Henry got here). Some in the class made contributions, others were known by simply examining the roster. Of all those players, only two remain.

Only three remain of the 11-player draft in 2004. I'm comfortable enough saying that Chris Perry just isn't working out, that Robert Geathers had that one good season, makes plays here and there, and Stacy Andrews took over three seasons to even get on the field.

Of Lewis' first 20 draft picks, five remain. Five. I don't know how that works out across the league; I just know we have five players left. Of those five players, only three start regularly (Palmer, Geathers and Andrews). Because of injury, only one will start this Sunday. One. If you're building your team with the NFL draft, you have to do better than five remaining players, three regular starters and one starter for Sunday.

Because I'd feel guilty, I got the idea for the post by reading Dave's post regarding Jeremi Johnson's release.

Wednesday Notes: Are the Lions Not Paying Matt Millen?

Sean Yuille — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 04:59:22 -0000

According to Chris Mortenson, the Lions haven't paid Matt Millen anything since he was fired. Millen still is supposed to get around $6 to $10 million, but the Lions don't want to give him that much. The reason they aren't paying him is so a settlement can be negotiated, which hopefully would result in the Lions paying less than they are actually supposed to.

If how he performed as a general manager was taken into consideration, Millen wouldn't be owed anything. Problem is the Lions were dumb enough to give him so much money in the first place, so he is entitled to it. He probably doesn't need anything more considering he's made so much money in the past off the Lions, but my guess is that he will get almost all of what he is owed.
Peter King stated in his Monday Morning QB column that Matt Millen basically threw Lions defensive coordinator Joe Barry under the bus and blamed him for the whole Brett Favre phone call story.

Millen told Favre last week that Detroit defensive coordinator Joe Barry was the source for the story that Favre discussed Packer offensive stuff with Millen. Barry has declined to comment on the story. I have tried to reach Millen, without success.
I highly doubt Joe Barry would do something like that, especially since the Lions' defense played so poorly against Green Bay. He had no need reason to tell Jay Glazer about the phone call, so it seems like Millen is just trying to save his own ass with Favre.
According to John Clayton, Daunte Culpepper "will stay in contact" with the Lions, even though a contract wasn't signed on Tuesday.
The Lions cut defensive tackle Langston Moore and signed fullback Darian Barnes. This move comes after fullback Jerome Felton left the Redskins game due to a high ankle sprain. He is going to be out at least one game, so the Lions had a need at fullback. Moore probably got cut because the Lions have so much depth at defensive tackle.

49ers beat Lions in Former Bengals Bowl

Kirkendall — Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:02:01 -0000

What you may not have known today, is that seven former Bengals players played in one NFC game now dubbed the Former Bengals Bowl; the San Francisco 49ers beat the Detroit Lions, 31-13.

Rudi Johnson rushed for 83 yards, on 14 carries, including a 27-yard rush. The last time he had a rush attempt longer than 27 yards, was December 18th, 2005 against the -- I freaking love irony -- the Detroit Lions with a 33-yard run.

That wasn't all. Jon Kitna hit Rudi Johnson on a 34-yard touchdown pass. Rudi Johnson recorded 131 total yards; three receptions and a team-leading 48 yards receiving.

Then there's Justin Smith, recording a sack, an interception and a forced fumble. Smith forced Kitna to fumble on a sack, on the Lions second drive of the game; the Lions recovered and another former Bengals player, Nick Harris, punted the ball 57 yards. Smith tackled Rudi Johnson and Jon Kitna each. Late in the game, Kitna attempted a pass to Rudi Johnson that was picked off by Smith.

Takeo Spikes recorded a forced fumble and two tackles. Mark Roman recorded two tackles and Langston Moore added another.

Former Bengals players in this game.

For the Lions
Jon Kitna
Rudi Johnson
Nick Harris
Langston Moore

For the 49ers
Justin Smith
Takeo Spikes
Mark Roman

In case I missed one, let us know.

49ers-Lions: Final Injury Report

Fooch — Sat, 20 Sep 2008 17:42:26 -0000

Here's the final injury report heading into tomorrow's matchup with Detroit.

49ers
Questionable
Donald Strickland

Out
Jonas Jennings
Shawntae Spencer

The most notable piece of information is that the 49ers still don't know how long Spencer might be out. Apparently the swelling on his knee hasn't gone down enough to determine if he tore his ACL against Seattle. Supposedly there will be more information released today. Spencer says he feels ok and doesn't think it's that bad, but maybe after the swelling goes down he'll think differently. It'd be a shame to lose such a solid nickel back.

Speaking of corners, Donald Strickland did fully take part in practice, so we'll see if he misses any action. Either way, part of the triumvirate of Marcus Hudson, Tarell Brown and Reggie Smith will see a decent amount more action this weekend.

Lions
Probable
S Gerald Alexander
DT Langston Moore
QB Drew Stanton

Questionable
DT Cory Redding
LB Jordon Dizon
DE Corey Smith

The only player on this list that missed all of practice the last few days was Cory Redding. The remainder had limited participation in practice. If Redding and Moore were both inactive this Sunday we'd see a some younger talent getting playing time on the defensive line. The Lions defense has struggled as is, so banged up players certainly can't be good for them. Anything to slow down any pass rush has to be a good thing for JTO and the 49ers.