SB Nation - Claude Giroux

Putting the Flyers Lack of Offense in Context

Geoff Detweiler — Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:15:12 -0000

The Flyers need someone to start putting the puck in the net. (AP Photo/Matt Slocum)

The way that title is worded, you'd think this would be another of those "it's not that bad!" stories. You'd be wrong.

Rather, this is just to show exactly how bad the Flyers offense has been this year in comparison to last year. The team statistics are obvious - they aren't scoring, their power play isn't clicking, and they aren't winning the even-strength battle.

Now, this is another stat heavy, table-filled post. But this time I kept the numbers simple. I'm looking purely at qualcomp, qualteam, goals per 60 minutes, and points per 60 minutes. Since it's tough to compare this season to last due to the number of games played, the rating stats are a lot easier to use. Is it perfect? No. But it shows you how drastic the drop off has been.

The good news? Our defenseman seem to be scoring more this year than last year. The bad news? Everything else.

After the jump, tables and analysis.

I'll start by first spewing out the team statistics. This year's team (again, this is just a look at the offense) is scoring 2.66 goals per game, good for 20th in the league. Their 5-on-5 goals for/against ratio is 0.96, good for 17th in the league. With the man advantage, they're converting 20.7% of their opportunities, good for 10th in the league. All of this while putting 31.8 shots per game on target, 7th most in the league.

How does that compare to last year? The team scored 3.17 goals per game, good for 4th in the league. They had a 5-on-5 ratio of 1.01, 14th in the league. Their power play was successful 22.5% of the time, 6th best in the league, and they fired 29.8 shots per game on target, 14th in the league.

So, on the team level, they're getting two additional shots on goal, but more than half of a goal less. They're losing the 5-on-5 battle after barely winning it last year, and their power play has dropped from one of the best to above average. Certainly, you already knew this: lots of shots (most of them easy), not a lot of goals, poor defensive play, and a much worse power play.

But when you look at this on an individual level, you begin to see the problem.

NAME	POS	GP	RATING	QUALCOMP	QUALTEAM	G/60	A1/60	A2/60	PTS/60
DARROLLPOWE	C	19	-1.61	-0.137	-0.137	1.82	0	0	1.82
DAVIDLALIBERTE	RW	11	0.2	-0.093	-0.215	1.57	0.79	0	2.36
DANIELBRIERE	C	28	-0.55	0.057	0.058	1.12	0.48	0.32	1.92
JEFFCARTER	C	35	-0.68	0.054	0.115	0.75	0.5	0.37	1.62
MIKERICHARDS	C	35	0.58	0.096	0.313	0.74	0.25	0.37	1.37
ARRONASHAM	RW	28	-0.91	-0.046	-0.032	0.68	0.68	0.23	1.6
JAMESVAN RIEMSDYK	RW	32	0.95	0	-0.153	0.68	1.02	0.51	2.2
CLAUDEGIROUX	RW	35	0.79	-0.041	0.066	0.56	0.56	0.14	1.27
SCOTTHARTNELL	RW	35	0.03	0.051	0.123	0.4	0.8	0.4	1.61
DANIELCARCILLO	LW	31	1.06	-0.022	-0.253	0.36	0.18	0.36	0.89
MIKAPYORALA	LW	34	-0.05	0.067	-0.06	0.31	0.15	0.15	0.61
CHRISPRONGER	D	35	0.9	0.112	0.278	0.29	0.39	0.39	1.06
BRAYDONCOBURN	D	34	-0.55	0.057	0.015	0.22	0.44	0.11	0.77
MATTHEWCARLE	D	35	1.54	0.067	0.146	0.19	0.48	0.29	0.97
IANLAPERRIERE	C	35	-1.51	-0.043	0.072	0.16	0	0.49	0.65
KIMMOTIMONEN	D	35	0.23	0.036	-0.11	0.11	0	0.68	0.79
RYANPARENT	D	27	-0.35	-0.108	-0.33	0	0.19	0.19	0.38
JONATHONKALINSKI	C	10	-0.81	-0.098	-0.146	0	1.77	0	1.77
DANNYSYVRET	D	13	-3.11	-0.362	-0.303	0	0	0.81	0.81
OLE-KRISTIANTOLLEFSEN	D	10	-0.98	-0.312	-0.738	0	0.65	0.65	1.29
SIMONGAGNE	LW	11	1.76	0.145	0.324	0	0.45	0	0.45
BLAIRBETTS	C	16	-0.37	-0.075	-0.117	0	0.37	0	0.37
ANDREASNODL	RW	10	-0.39	-0.089	-0.158	0	0	0.77	0.77
OSKARSBARTULIS	D	21	-1.44	-0.047	-0.169	0	0.23	0.23	0.46
RILEYCOTE	LW	12	1.24	-0.046	-0.505	0	0	0	0

This is the data for this year, sorted by goals per 60. There are a number of things wrong with that. First, I found that Gagne actually has scored 0.3 goals per 60 minutes (one goal in 198 minutes, feel free to correct my math) rather than 0. However, that still ranks him below Mika Pyorala.

Now, here's how those same numbers look from last year.

NAME	POS	GP	RATING	QUALCOMP	QUALTEAM	G/60	A1/60	A2/60	PTS/60
JEFFCARTER	C	82	1.17	0.041	0.042	1.4	0.72	0.52	2.64
SCOTTHARTNELL	RW	82	0.68	0.008	0.172	1.26	0.66	0.55	2.47
DANIELBRIERE	C	29	1.46	-0.048	0.135	1.23	0.88	0.53	2.63
JOFFREYLUPUL	RW	79	-0.05	-0.002	0.245	1.13	0.6	0.3	2.03
SIMONGAGNE	LW	79	0.85	0.024	0.173	1.01	0.6	0.72	2.33
MIKEKNUBLE	RW	82	0.07	0.041	0.304	0.91	0.4	0.17	1.47
CLAUDEGIROUX	RW	42	0.82	-0.04	-0.021	0.8	0.91	0.68	2.39
ARRONASHAM	RW	78	-0.26	-0.082	-0.263	0.72	0.63	0.45	1.79
MIKERICHARDS	C	79	0.7	0.048	0.178	0.7	0.97	0.27	1.94
DARROLLPOWE	C	60	-1.97	-0.066	-0.198	0.42	0.21	0.32	0.95
MATTHEWCARLE	D	76	-0.1	-0.009	0.023	0.19	0.37	0.23	0.79
RANDYJONES	D	47	-0.01	-0.014	-0.013	0.18	0	0.27	0.45
ANDREASNODL	RW	38	-3.14	-0.02	0.01	0.15	0.46	0	0.61
BRAYDONCOBURN	D	80	-0.26	0.014	0.114	0.13	0.22	0.18	0.53
DANIELCARCILLO	LW	74	-0.87	-0.034	-0.14	0.08	0.31	0.46	0.84
ANDREWALBERTS	D	79	-0.01	-0.063	-0.09	0.06	0.23	0.41	0.7
KIMMOTIMONEN	D	77	0.4	0.06	0.172	0.05	0.32	0.32	0.69
RYANPARENT	D	31	-0.44	0.069	0.251	0	0.13	0.39	0.51
RILEYCOTE	LW	63	-2.22	-0.144	-0.489	0	0.46	0.23	0.69
LASSEKUKKONEN	D	22	-1	-0.116	-0.172	0	0.29	0.29	0.58
LUCASBISA	D	39	-0.21	-0.049	-0.053	0	0.1	0.1	0.21

Important things to see here, bullet point style:

Last year, the team had 5 players who averaged at least one goal per 60 minutes of ice time. This year, only Darroll Powe, David Laliberte, and Danny Briere have accomplished that.
Along the same lines, the team had 6 players who averaged at least two points per 60 minutes of play last year. This year, only David Laliberte is doing that. Only 4 players are averaging at least 1.75 points per 60; Powe, Laliberte, Briere, and Jonathon Kalinski. Considering only Briere has played 20 games, the team is only seeing Danny Briere produce so far this year.
Jeff Carter is obviously having a down year in comparison to last year. But the fact that he's scoring one fewer point per game and nearly half as many goals per game as last year, is worse than even I expected.
With that said, Carter is facing stiffer competition with worse teammates. Couple that with his steep drop in production, and you see why he's been such a disappointment so far this year.
The flip side of Carter though, is Briere. He's also playing against tougher competition with worse teammates, yet his drop in goals (1.23 to 1.12) is manageable, especially compared with Carter's (1.4 to 0.75). And for some reason I still don't think this will stop people from hating Briere.
Since Carter and Briere have been playing together for a large part of this season, it's no surprise that Scott Hartnell has also seen a drop in his qualteam rating while his qualcomp number went up. But when you look at how similar his competition has been, his severe drop in scoring is even more drastic. His goals per 60 fell from 1.26 last year to just 0.4 this year. And he actually played more last year than he has so far this year.
As mentioned above, the defense has actually upped their production from last year. Matt Carle has gone from 0.79 points per 60 to 0.97. Braydon Coburn from 0.53 to 0.77; Kimmo Timonen from 0.69 to 0.79; and Chris Pronger from 0.62 in Anaheim to 1.06. Only Ryan Parent has seen a drop in scoring (0.51 to 0.38), but he's also seen his goals against per 60 shrink from 2.96 to 1.9. We can certainly see the problems this team has - and defense is certainly one of them - but the lack of scoring is not the fault of the blueline.
As much as Claude Giroux has impressed this year - he's one of the few who are noticeably playing every night - his drop-off is still steep. He's obviously one who likes to set up goals rather than score them, so his goals/60 falling from 0.8 to 0.56 isn't what is alarming. Instead, it's his points per 60 (2.39 to 1.27) and his primary assists per 60 (0.91 to 0.56) that are the most troubling. Everyone noticed how he wasn't scoring much this year (7 goals in 35 games), but he's also failing to get the assists.
Mike Richards is one of the few who have seen his goal scoring rate increase (modestly, from 0.7 to 0.74), but his primary assists have plummeted from 0.97 to 0.25. Having only a quarter as many set ups per game from a huge part of your offense is yet another troubling development.
If you are someone who thinks James van Riemsdyk was supposed to "replace" Mike Knuble (or Joffrey Lupul for that matter) in the offense, I'm sure you're a bit disappointed - especially with his play of late. However, JVR is scoring 2.2 points per 60 minutes of ice time, higher than both Knuble and Lupul last year (1.47 and 2.03 respectively). The problem arises when you look at his goals/60, which at 0.68 is much lower than both Knuble (0.91) and Lupul (1.13). Either way, van Riemsdyk's numbers continue to impress, despite his largely invisible play of late.
Lastly, for you Randy Jones lovers out there, his offensive contributions from last year (4 goals and 4 assists in 47 games due to injury) may not be offset this year, but Oskars Bartulis comes close. Through 21 games, Bartulis only has 3 assists. However, he's producing at 0.46 points per 60, just ahead of Jones' 0.45. Plus, Jones failed to register a primary assist all of last year.

Obviously, there's a lot of information there. And mostly, all of that could be seen just from watching the games. However, when you look at just how bad the Flyers are doing compared to last year, it still amazes you.

Anything you guys spotted that I missed? Any explanation you have? Do you have faith they can turn it around?

All team stats gotten through NHL.com. The tables and all individual stats acquired from Behind the Net.

Another Day, Another Loss: Rangers 2, Flyers 1

Geoff Detweiler — Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:17:45 -0000

More photos » by H. Rumph Jr - AP

Boucher looks at the puck behind him after noticing none of the Flyers had shown up to play yet. (AP Photo/H. Rumph Jr)

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Final - 12.19.2009	1	2	3	Total
New York Rangers	1	1	0	2
Philadelphia Flyers	1	0	0	1

Complete Coverage >

[Box Score] - [Full Coverage] - [NYR Reaction]

No words. I have no idea what to say. I'm getting sick of having to write stories about how badly the Flyers played, how they didn't deserve to win, and how they still can't score. How bad are the Flyers? They scored one goal against a team that has been giving up 2.91 per game, good for 9th most in the league.

The Rangers won the battle at even-strength, outscoring the Flyers 2-0 at 5-on-5 play. How rare is this? The Rangers have a -8 goal deferential at 5-on-5 play. Yet the Flyers can't get a goal at even strength. The power play wasn't any better, going 1 for 5.

One of the most telling things in this game was Peter Laviolette calling a timeout after the Rangers first goal. Just over 5 minutes into the game, the Rangers had already outshot the Flyers 5-1 when Claude Giroux had a pass from his knees get picked off in his own zone. Chris Drury put the turnover in the net and Laviolette called a timeout. Not a good start to the game.

In his post-game press conference, Peter Laviolette was clearly not happy:

"It was a poor start, there's no excuse for it. I can't think of one reason why we would come out flat, but we did. We needed the time out to try and refocus. I would have thought we would have ripped the hinges off the gate tonight to get on the ice. We were so far from that in my opinion, to start the game, and we got what we deserved."

The game-winning goal was scored by Artem Ansimov, as his centering pass went off of Ryan Parent's shin pad and past Boucher. It was a lucky bounce, but Ryan Callahan won the battle against Parent in the corner, then beat Parent for positioning in front of the net. They earned their luck, something the Flyers haven't been doing.

After the jump, Random Thoughts, Questions with Answers, highlights, and the Comment of the [Afternoon].

Random Thoughts:

Mika Pyorala only played 5:05 tonight, but he had as many shots on goal as Danny Briere (1) who played 19:45. And it was a scoring chance at that.
With that in mind, I think it's safe to say Pyorala will be a scratch when Darroll Powe returns to the lineup.
Speaking of returning to the lineup, Simon Gagne was rather impressive in his first game back. He logged 20:16 of ice time, had a key assist on Pronger's goal, and showed a lot of jump in his skates. It's good to have him back.
This team's offensive plan is rather predictable. I have a hard time believing the opposing team is surprised by anything the Flyers do in the offensive zone. That makes it easy to defend.
This was mentioned in the game thread by Prometheus74, but the Flyers have now scored 17 goals in their last 11 games. Only twice have they scored more than two goals in that time period, both of them wins. They have only scored 8 goals in their last 9 losses.
The Flyers won the faceoff battle (53%), the shot battle (37-24), and the penalty battle (5-2), but not the war.
District 5.

Questions with Answers:

How does Gagne perform now that he's back in the lineup? He only had one goal in the nine games he played this season, if you remember. He played very well. No goals, but an assist to go along with a strong forecheck.
Do Hartnell and Carter carry over the chemistry they displayed on Thursday? I wasn't impressed with Hartnell at all today, but the Carter-Hartnell-Briere line was the best today.
Can the Flyers successfully stop Marian Gaborik? Yes. Just under 21 minutes of ice time, no points and only 1 shot.
How many people actually make it to the game today? Eh. Two-thirds capacity? I'm obviously not sure. Anybody have a better answer?

Highlights:

Comment of the Night:

Pronger can’t shoot from the point (said two minutes before Pronger scores the tying goal)

JpH89

Building Blocks: Flyers earn solid victory in Boston

Travis Hughes — Tue, 15 Dec 2009 03:57:23 -0000

More photos » by Charles Krupa - AP

Look at that face.

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[TSN Recap] - [Boxscore] - [Boston Reaction]

The Boston Bruins hadn't lost a game all season after scoring the first goal, the best mark in the NHL. The Philadelphia Flyers had a 2-11 record when allowing the first goal of the hockey game, the worst mark in the NHL. So you can imagine how fans of the orange and black felt when Vladimir Sobotka scored a lucky, ugly goal in the latter stages of the second period to break a scoreless dead lock.

Same old story, right? It didn't matter that the Flyers had worked hard all game, or that the offensive pressure was there, or that the defense had been quite solid throughout, or that Brian Boucher continued to play like it was Game 7 of the Finals. Nope, bad luck would bite them this time, and a cheap goal would lead this ill-fated team toward yet another loss.

That's what overreacting sounds like when, in the end, the opposite actually happens.

The Flyers didn't give up. When the third period started, they continued to apply the pressure, not giving up. Hard work by Claude Giroux forced a power play, which they were unable to capitalize on, but you could feel it coming. Boston couldn't get out of their end except for a few futile little rushes the other way, which were quickly stomped out by the Flyers defense. With Philly again pressing in the Bruins end, Arron Asham was able to feed James van Riemsdyk in the slot, where he poked the tying goal through the pads of Tim Thomas.

The Flyers didn't stop there, though, continuing to control the pace for the next eight minutes, until a drive from Kimmo Timonen at the point deflected off a Bruin and found its way behind the net. And just like that, Philadelphia had a third period lead. Hard work rewarded.

Scott Hartnell would take a dumb penalty in the waning minutes, but on the ensuing kill, Kimmo Timonen lifted a shot from the far corner all the way down the ice into an empty net to seal the victory. It doesn't get any easier tomorrow in Pittsburgh, but this was an excellent victory tonight. Baby steps. Building blocks.

After the jump, a few more thoughts on this solid Flyers victory, questions with answers, highlights & pressers, and the comment of the night.

Some assorted thoughts...

Ole-Kristian Tollefsen left the game after the first period with a knee injury. He's reportedly going to be out two to three weeks, and Danny Syvret is on his way to Pittsburgh to meet the team. He'll play tomorrow night.
Boston fans are livid about a few questionable calls in this one, proving that everybody -- not just a select few Flyers fans -- believes the NHL is out to get them. Here's a quote from the game thread at Stanley Cup of Chowder...

Stuff like that makes me wonder. With the Classic coming up and Philadelphia clearly not being up to snuff as a team, it’s a little convenient that a game would be called this bad, with much of it in their favor, in the last matchup before the big one.

...you can snuff out the absurdity there, I'm sure. The commenter is referring to a non-goal call in the first period. The Bruins crashed the net and the puck wound up in it. There was no review, justified by the officials because Boucher never had a chance to make a plau. Jack Edwards probably had a heart attack on NESN, and if we can get a clip of that, we'll pass it along.
The Flyers peppered the Bruins with 38 shots, a nice little picture of how much offensive pressure they created. Not all of them were quality, but still.
The power play still looks terrible, though. They're not generating any movement, not getting creative with passes, and opting to take only low-percentage shots through traffic. It has to change.
There was a reported brawl during the Mites on Ice game in the first intermission at TD Garden. And they say we like fighting in Philly. If we get video, we'll be sure to pass it along as well. If you have video, please shoot us an email ASAP, because this has to be hilarious.
JVR broke a 12-game goal-less drought.
Giroux and Hartnell showed a ton of chemistry, and Carcillo looked really strong on the top line. In fact, the entire team put in an excellent effort tonight. They truly earned this one.
Hartnell did take a ton of penalties, though, and you can be sure Peter Laviolette will make him pay in practice.

Questions With Answers

Tim Thomas hasn't won a game since the 2nd and hasn't been great this season. Can the Flyers take advantage? Thomas didn't look particularly weak tonight.
Claude Giroux has scored the Flyers' last three goals. CAN SOMEONE ELSE SCORE, PLEASE? Giroux played fantastic hockey again, but yes! JVR and Timonen had Flyer goals.
Can the Flyers get the first goal and gain some momentum early? No, but they certainly stole the momentum out of the gate in the third and rode it to victory.
Power play. Goals? Nah, don't ask too much, now...
How's Tollefsen look now that he's back in the lineup? Poor guy. Another injury. It's almost funny, in a sick sort of way.
Does Carcillo noticeably hold back at all, fresh off his four game suspension? He didn't take any dumb penalties and even drew one or two, but from an aggressiveness standpoint, he didn't seem to hold back. He put together a nice little game.

Comment of the Night

Everyone remember what clothes they have on RIGHT NOW so you can wear them again tomorrow…

>> NoalB

Highlights

Laviolette Press Conference

Boucher, JVR, & Timonen Post Game

Patrik Elias Scored 300th & 301st Career Goals in New Jersey Devils' Win over Philadelphia Flyers, 4-1

John Fischer — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 05:06:17 -0000

More photos » by Bill Kostroun - AP

It may look small in this picture, but Patrik Elias and Devils fans have every reason to smile as Elias' 300th career goal helped the Devils decisively beat the Philadelphia Flyers. (AP Photo/Bill Kostroun)

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The New Jersey Devils defeated their Second Most Hated Rivals, the Philadelphia Flyers, for the first time this season 4-1 at the Rock tonight. The NHL.com recap is already up with all the stats that you'd like to see. Check out Broad Street Hockey for the Flyers' take, which contains a lot of frustration and or disappointment about the Flyers' performance.

The game changed from period to period. The first period was simply fantastic hockey by the Devils. They straight up dominated the Flyers in every aspect of the game, converted two power play goals, Patrik Elias tacked on a third which was his 300th career goal, and nearly put four past Brian Boucher. A part of me hopes that the Devils coaching staff has a tape of that first period so they can show the Devils exactly what they are capable of - and use it to prevent periods like, say, the second one in tonight's game.

The second was the exact opposite, it was almost as if the teams switched mentalities. The Flyers decided to show up for this one and the Devils decided to take it easy. I really have no answers as to why, but it happened. The Devils were pinned back, the Flyers had more possession and more shots, and Martin Brodeur had to come up huge in a few situations. Of course, he was not perfect. Claude Giroux scored on a bad-angle shot on a power play and gave the Flyers a lifeline. Thankfully for New Jersey, that lifeline was yanked out of it's cord when Patrik Elias put home a fantastic pass by Brian Rolston on a 2-on-1 in the final minute of the period.

The Flyers were surely deflated during the third period. While the Devils didn't look as good in the first, they kept the Flyers honest in their own end, they tried some good attempts on Boucher, and as time went on you can tell that the game was essentially over. The Flyers kept mishandling the puck and conceding possession, whereas the Devils slowed their pace a little bit. Not a bad effort, something I wouldn't have minded seeing from the Devils in the second period.

Read on after the jump for further thoughts on the game.

First, some highlights from NHL.com:

The two top players on the ice were the goal scorers themselves, Nicklas Bergfors and Patrik Elias. Both got braces, both got 4 shots on net, and both somehow racked up a few official giveaways according to the Event Summary of the game. Hmm. In any case, both players looked real strong going forward. Bergfors was constantly going to the net and you saw in the video, thankfully he did just that. His first goal was simply impressive, leading the breakout through the neutral zone and just got through Braydon Coburn and then got it through Boucher's legs. Great stuff on the power play.

But Patrik Elias was just all over the place. Strong in his own end, he was pretty good with his passing all night long, and his goals were fantastic. His first one was a one-timer you'd expect from a pure sniper, a classic highlight-reel worthy goal fitting for a milestone like a 300th career goal. Credit Vladimir Zharkov for his fine work along the boards to protect the puck and get it to Elias. But the second period goal from Elias was far more important. Not just because he is now only 46 goals away from tying John MacLean's franchise record.

The Devils were truly bad in that second period, and again, I don't know why. Maybe they were tired? Maybe they were surprised the Flyers would come out with energy (I hope this isn't the answer)? Maybe they couldn't sustain the level of intensity for two straight periods unless Philly fell flat on it's butt? Whatever you and I may think it is, the fact is that the Flyers got the better of the Devils and pulled within one goal. Martin Brodeur really should have had Claude Giroux's shot. (Aside: I didn't think that was honestly a holding penalty on Jamie Langenbrunner to begin with as a Flyer hugged Langenbrunner's stick for a good 5 feet, but what do I know.) He said as such to Tom Gulitti after the game - not because it killed a shutout, but because he did get a piece of it. However, I think he more than made up for it when he had to make some dynamite saves on the Flyers. 12 shots by Philly, they kept pushing forward, leaving the Devils back, and even on the one power play the Devils did get, the Flyers went up and had a good scoring chance. The Devils only put 5 shots on net, yet the last one was crucial.

Elias' goal at the end sent the message, "We sucked this period, but you know what, you're not winning this game." Most, if not all, of the momentum the Flyers built up in that period, the things they could have built on for the second, was wiped away with 34 seconds left in the second period. The Devils regained their three goal lead in spite of how they played. The Flyers looked deflated as the period ended. As one of the lovely and classy Flyer fans behind me said, "I'm just glad they got a goal, forget the win." And so that fan just must be thrilled as the Flyers just settled for that. Elias goal didn't just restore a lead, it rattled the Flyers' focus. They should have spent the intermission trying to forget about the goal and focus on how they did in those other 19 minutes. But they didn't.

And instead of just trying to look past that goal, they got dumber on the ice. They took two unnecessary calls that they should be happy Brian Boucher and some execution issues prevented the Devils from making the Flyers pay the price. Even so, it meant 4 minutes where the Flyers had to focus mainly on their own end. Outside of that, the Flyers conceded possession easily in the neutral zone, which just hurt their attack. Their passes were poor and the Devils just kept dogging them when they could.

On offense, they didn't make decisions quick enough or correctly enough to make Brodeur really sweat in even strength. Their best scoring chance came while killing a penalty when Brodeur stacked the pads on Jeff Carter. Nice save, but why is Brodeur having to make nice saves on a power play, Devils PP Units? Nevertheless, that was the biggest threat by Philly. The Flyers stopped battling somewhere after the third minute of the third period and the Devils were unfortunate to not make this a bigger score. The Devils were happy to take control of all of these loose pucks - especially Andy Greene, who cleaned up a lot of pucks in his 27:19 of ice time, and that pretty much meant the end.

Admittedly, the Devils weren't as aggressive as they were in the first period, but they did go forward and put a few shots on Boucher. I don't think the Devils stopped trying, but you could tell they didn't have to try as hard given how Philly was playing. Not trying to step up their intensity was a big mistake and really dumb. Why not try to at least make it a game again against a rival? Why give up? I don't know and I'm sure the Flyer fans are asking similar questions as well.

Outside of this, I do want to point out that Martin Brodeur had a very good game from what I saw. Some of those shots by the Flyers were truly dangerous shots. After all, there is a reason why he has more highlight saves than Boucher per the highlight video earlier in this recap. He came up huge on a couple of shorthanded attempts by the Flyers, which were also important as giving up a shortie is a great way to let an opponent back into a game. According to Jacques Lemaire, as reported by Gulitti, that save on Carter in the second period was massive. Honestly, his only real error was the Giroux goal but ultimately that didn't matter thanks to Elias' important second period goal. Could you fault the defense on some of those chances? For some, like the shorthanded chances, seriously those were breakdowns, yes. However, could you really complain about the defense overall as they held the Flyers to 23 shots? Probably not, unless you have high expectations.

So my real complaints about the Devils' performance was their second period and that the power play gave up a few scoring chances while not really frightening the Flyers on those last few man advantages. Yet, the Devils settled things down in the third period - something I would have liked to have seen in the second, admittedly. The power play did convert twice thanks to Bergfors and those two third period power plays went a long way in killing the Flyers' spirit (they did so little after them), so I can't gripe too much about the power play units.

There were some areas I would have liked to have seen the Devils perform better upon further reflection. Had the Devils not take their foot off the proverbial pedal, they could have had 30+ shots instead of just 28. That would have really forced the Flyers back more, and who knows, blow up the score. The one thing Flyers fans can say they dominated the Devils at tonight was at the faceoff dot, as the Devils only won 37% of faceoffs. Though that ultimately didn't mean much. For example, Rob Niedermayer, who played a ton of minutes (22:57), got owned the most as he won only 6 out of 21. Then he usually followed that up by forcing a Flyer to make a hasty decision wherein a Devil picked up a stray puck. So faceoffs were not as crucial tonight.

I'd say the Devils played 40 minutes out of this one. A great 20 followed by a poor 20 and finished with an acceptable 20. Were it not for some unlucky bounces or Brian Boucher coming up big - Brian Rolston nearly had a goal like Elias' second, but Boucher made a fantastic sliding save - this could have easily ended as a big blowout in favor of New Jersey. Instead, I and the Devils fans left the Rock very happy that the Flyers lost in a decisive fashion. The Devils got some revenge for the last two Devils-Flyers games, which were wins where the Flyers outplayed the Devils. The performance by the home team was improved upon some of the recent ones at the Rock, so there's that. The passing was much improved over the dreck that was seen against Florida. The Devils kept cool in light of Philadelphia's lack of discipline save for Colin White shoving Daniel Briere down after a whistle. Bergfors and Elias had huge nights as the difference makers tonight with braces; and Elias hit a career milestone. And, well, the Devils just beat the Flyers, 4-1. Plenty to be happy about, in my view. Now the Devils can rest for three days and try to improve upon their second period performances against Montreal on Wednesday.

Thanks for reading, and a big thanks to Steve for setting up the GameThread as well as a big thanks to the commenters on it as my mobile messaging was lacking tonight. The crowd was good and largely pro-Devils and I enjoyed the company around me despite the class acts whining about the Flyers behind me. (Aside #1: Oh well, they all got a good view of my New Jersey Devils scarf after the goals. Aside #2: Pro-tip for the Flyers fans, bragging about the team value of the Flyers being better than the Devils means little as Elias scores a one-timer.) Combine that with few breaks in the action and so there wasn't much time to text. All the same, the result is what matters and the Devils got it. As usual, please leave your thoughts on tonight's game in the comments.

Devils Win 4-1, Flyers Still Hellaciously Bad

Ben Rothenberg — Sun, 13 Dec 2009 04:24:41 -0000

More photos » by Bill Kostroun - AP

It's okay, Brian, you don't have to look. Philadelphia Flyers goaltender Brian Boucher cannot stop the puck as New Jersey Devils' Patrik Elias scores a goal during the second period of an NHL hockey game Saturday, Dec. 12, 2009 in Newark, N.J. (AP Photo/Bill Kostroun)

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The good news: Claude Giroux scored a crazy soft goal to prevent Martin Brodeur from claiming a record 104th career shutout against the Orange and Black.

The bad news: Everything else.

I don't want to go into the gruesome details of this game too much, but suffice it was nothing new. They looked terrible. If his last name starts with a "C," he was especially terrible.

The Flyers, as we know them right now, are simply not a good hockey team. The switch to Laviolette clearly was not enough to put this team back on track. It's now pretty clear that something pretty drastic has got to happen, and soon. I recommend confiscating the players' cars and making them walk to work every day. They could use that kind of character building. I would let Boucher keep his car for now, though. He's not to blame at all for this mess.

Here are some harsh realities the team has to deal with right now:

In their last ten games against teams that don't rhyme with "Die Flanders," the Flyers are 0-10-0, earning exactly zero points.
In those ten games, the Flyers have scored 14 goals, which works out to an average of 1.4 goals a game. The all-time record for lowest GAA for a goalie for a season is 1.91, a full half-goal above the Flyers current production.
For the first time this season, the Flyers have more regulation losses than they have wins. Yowch. They also now average less than a point-per-game for the first time in this campaign

After the jump, highlights from the game, questions answered, and tonight's pick for the best Philadelphia bridge to jump off of.

Questions answered with the same amount of effort as the team put in:

Does this team come out ready to play? Nope.
Can they get a 60 minute effort? Nope.
Will the special teams do their job? Nope.
Can Brian Boucher continue his stellar play? Nope.
Is it possible to win two in a row in New Jersey? Nope.

The Market Street Bridge is lovely this time of year.

Now out of the comfort zone, Flyers face make or break stretch

Travis Hughes — Sat, 12 Dec 2009 17:09:30 -0000

More photos » by Gene J. Puskar - AP

Claude Giroux and Mike Richards need to wipe the depressing looks off their faces and get this team going.

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Devils. Bruins. Penguins. Penguins. Rangers. That's the schedule for the Philadelphia Flyers over the next week.

It's officially make or break time. This team needs to string points together right now. Not only are all of these teams rivals, they're all pretty strong opponents. Yeah, you could argue against the Rangers, who have been stuck in neutral just like the Flyers. If you think they won't be up for the first game of the season against the orange and black, though, you're mistaken.

The key is for the Flyers to match intensity this week. The largest problem with this team right now is a simple lack of confidence. They lack it in basically every aspect of the game besides goaltending, and it's a major reason why they simply can't put the puck in the net.

The firing of their coach and friend John Stevens probably didn't help the fragile self-esteem of this group. After all, it's easy to forget that the core of this team is still quite young. They were one of the youngest in the league last year, and the additions of Chris Pronger and Ian Laperriere, along with the subtractions of Joffrey Lupul and Scottie Upshall, have only gone so far in changing that fact.

Besides, Pronger and Laperriere, two guys who were brought in largely to take leadership roles on the club, haven't done so, at least when it comes to an off-ice role, with Pronger saying things like how he doesn't want to step on Mike Richards' toes.

So far under Peter Laviolette, though, the Flyers have been taken out of their comfort zone. In comes a new coach, holding them accountable for stupid, undisciplined penalties right off the bat. Pronger has been, seemingly, a more vocal presence since Laviolette has come on. The new coach has moved morning game day skates from the Wachovia Center to the Skate Zone in Voorhees, where they were located for almost 30 years prior to last season.

That decision a year ago was made in large part to help the younger players, who live in Center City Philadelphia. Now, those young players will have to drive the extra 20 to 30 minutes over the bridge to the practice rink every morning while the veterans, who for the most part live in South Jersey, are given the luxury of the shorter drive on game day mornings.

Laviolette said the issue wasn't even up for debate. He also went into tactical reasons for the move, such as not wanting to be in the same building as the opponent so the team could go over secretive things like power play formations and the like without the other team seeing what he's doing. But whether it was the main reason for the move or not, the young, under performing core has been effectively taken out of their comfort zone.

Now, it's up to them to respond and show they have something to prove. They have to take this personally. Richards has to lead the charge, emotionally and on the ice. He can set the tone for this team early on, and he'll have to against the Devils for the team to have any success. It's not that Richards has to score a goal in the first ten minutes. But when he's at his best, he's zipping around the ice, doing anything possible to make a high-percentage play. He has to set that tone, but his linemates and the other goal scorers on the team have to follow. That means Danny Briere, Claude Giroux, Scott Hartnell, James van Riemsdyk, and most of all, Jeff Carter, have to match his intensity.

The third and fourth lines will continue to get it done. They've been working hard this entire stretch, and that's not surprising given the make-up of those two units. You've got guys like Laperriere and Asham leading the charge on the third line, and those guys simply don't let up. And on the fourth line, you've got a bunch of guys fighting to make a name for themselves in what they know will be a limited time in the NHL.

We have to hope that going up against a few rivals this week, especially the Penguins in a home-and-home that caps off in Philadelphia, will give the Flyers big guns the spark they so desperately need. If you're going to prove that you're still capable of winning the Cup this season, you've got to win against your Cup-contending rivals. You've got to win this week.

Is goaltender Mike Smith being shopped?

John Fontana — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 19:47:36 -0000

More photos » by Chris O'Meara - AP

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Lightning fans have got to be wondering just why Mike Smith is getting a load of starts as of late, with flashes of brilliance intertwined with inconsistencies and soft goals. With six starts in the past nine games, Smith has faced the most regular action since his concussion this time last year.

Both wins during that span were under Smith's watch, posting a shutout against the Isles and a near-shutout against the Rangers on November 28th. But for every great start, there have been follow up weak efforts by the team - no matter who is in net.

Two media publications in the Philadelphia area shed light on why Smith has seen so much action as of late: Brian Lawton may have been showcasing him for a potential trade.

According to the Delco Times (which is in Delaware County, PA for the uninformed -- such as myself who originally posted this as Delaware the state. Thanks to Travis Hughes from Broad Street Hockey for the correction.):

According to another organizational source, the Tampa Bay Lightning, ready to hand their starting job to Antero Niittymaki, contacted the Flyers to gauge their interest in goalie Mike Smith.

This report was repeated by Philly.com and invokes memories of Charles M. "Chuck" LaMar (former GM of the Tampa Bay ~~Devil~~ Rays) in what was the supposed reason talks did not go very far:

"However, the Lightning’s demands for the average-at-best netminder was absurd, as they asked for either Claude Giroux or James van Riemsdyk in return, to which the Flyers told them to peddle their wares elsewhere."

Asking too much in return for someone middle-of-the-road or inconsistent was a mainstay of LaMar's trade negotiating tactics as GM for the Rays.

If the Lightning are indeed shopping Mike Smith, there's a bigger picture one has to realize beyond Antero Niittymaki becoming the #1 starter and remainder of the the 2009-10 season. It happens to do with AHL tandem Riku Helenius and Dustin Tokarski, and it happens to do with Lightning-alumni-abroad Karri Ramo who is currently in the KHL.

All three goaltenders are Lightning property and will remain Lightning property beyond the 2009-10 season unless moved. Antero Niittymaki is an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season, having signed for substantially less with the Bolts ($600,000) in order to prove his worth. The Bolts re-signing him long-term at a much greater cost, with steady netminding in the system, is questionable.

The system update I posted here at Raw Charge earlier this week shows that Ramo, Tokarski, Helenius and prospect Jaroslav Janus all have middling records with their teams, yet their personal save percentages and goals against averages have been sound, if not impressive. For the Lightning to look at moving Mike Smith is to suggest the team is confident in their young crop of netminders.

If the team cannot move Mike Smith, his contract lasts for one more season at $2.4 million dollars in salary. He becomes an unrestricted free agent in July of 2011.

Another game, Another shutout: Flyers lose 2-0

Travis Hughes — Fri, 11 Dec 2009 03:31:30 -0000

[TSN Recap] - [Boxscore] - [Ottawa Reaction]

Final - 12.10.2009	1	2	3	Total
Ottawa Senators	0	0	2	2
Philadelphia Flyers	0	0	0	0

Complete Coverage >

Six games, three shutouts. Watch America's Most Wanted this weekend and maybe we can find out who kidnapped the Philadelphia Flyers offense. With the exception of one game against the New York Islanders, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, Scott Hartnell, Claude Giroux, James van Riemsdyk, and Danny Briere have been invisible over the last month.

I don't know what to think and I don't have answers, but this team just can't score. They have absolutely zero confidence. Maybe a trade is necessary to shake up the offense. Maybe they just need Simon Gagne, Blair Betts, and Darroll Powe back in the lineup. Maybe we overrated them and they're just bad. I simply don't know. With the amount of games coming up in the next few weeks -- really, up until the Olympic break -- they can't afford to continually give up points like this. It's frustrating, not to mention depressing.

They outworked the Senators tonight. They had more chances and they had an almost full length five-on-three power play. Their goalie performed like the starter he was in 2000. And yet, empty net goals not withstanding, they still lost a 1-0 defensive struggle.

Credit is due to the Senators. Brian Elliott played quite well. They did a great job of clogging the middle of the ice with bodies, not allowing the Flyers to do much on the power play. Still, Ottawa is not really a good hockey team. They've played over their heads thus far this season. They're relying on a goaltender right now who has only played 47 NHL games.

You've gotta win these games. The Flyers keep on proving that they're incapable of that.

After the jump, a few more notes on this one, lowlights, questions with answers, and the comment of the night.

Some assorted thoughts...

If I were Brian Boucher, I'd be furious. He's playing excellent hockey in the absence of Ray Emery, but he can't get a win because his team can't put the puck in the other net. At the same time, it's a reassuring sign that things aren't totally lost with Emery down. If the offense can get a damn goal.
The orange and black may have scored a goal at one point during this one, but the score sheet wont say that. The puck was lodged under Elliott's pads, and he seemed to be in the net with it. He was pushed by Scott Hartnell, though, so the officials, despite heading over to the table, didn't even send the play to Toronto for review.
The power play showed excellent puck movement, but unlike Tuesday against the Isles, the passing lanes across the middle of the ice didn't exist tonight. That forces the shots to come from the outside, and Elliott had an answer every time the Flyers challenged him down below the faceoff circles. When shots came from the point, especially via the stick of Chris Pronger, they rarely even made it through to Elliott.
Matt Carkner delivered a cheap shot to Mike Richards late in the third period, giving the Flyers some hope with a PP. On that ensuing PP, it was the same story.
Braydon Coburn's giveaway to Jesse Winchester leading up to the game-sealing empty net goal was just terrible.
The Flyers took several penalties tonight, but Peter Laviolette said after the game that they weren't the same kind of undisciplined penalties that he punished the team for during Wednesday's practice.
On the bright side, the penalty kill did a good job killing off Ottawa's PP chances.
This was, by far, the most boring hockey game in quite some time. Sens fans and Flyers fans agree.
Oddly, the CSN broadcast was the only one of this game tonight. It was simulcast on TSN 2 in Canada, as well as around the country on various CSN affiliates.
On that same note, Jim Jackson reportedly lost his glasses prior to the game (I didn't know he wore glasses?) and was forced to wear prescription sunglasses while calling the game. Jim Jackson wears his sunglasses at night.

Questions With Answers

Can the Flyers keep themselves out of the penalty box for prolonged stretches tonight? No, but it didn't hurt them like it did on Tuesday.
Will the power play sustain the success they had on Tuesday night? They held the puck well, but anything more than that is apparently too much to ask for.
Does the top line continue its sexy-looking play? Not even a little bit.
Can Boucher keep up his hot play? Definitely. Solid games are becoming the norm for Boosh.
How successful are the Flyers in keeping the Sens big guns off the score sheet? Fisher had an assist, but Alfreddson, Spezza, Michalek, and Cheechoo were all held off.
Does Jarkko Ruutu kill a guy? No, but he did receive a cross-checking minor in the second.

Comment Of The Night

At least he’s scoring somewhere

>> JpH89, on Carter getting some tail at the club

Lowlights

That's more like it: Flyers rout Isles, 6-2

Travis Hughes — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:18:27 -0000

More photos » by Matt Slocum - AP

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[TSN Recap] - [Boxscore] - [New York Reaction]

Final - 12.8.2009	1	2	3	Total
New York Islanders	0	2	0	2
Philadelphia Flyers	2	3	1	6

Complete Coverage >

That's what I'm talkin' about, boys. The Philadelphia Flyers looked like a hockey team again tonight, beating the New York Islanders in convincing fashion on home ice. Six goals, three players, each with two a piece.

And you know what's refreshing? The guys who are supposed to lead this team actually did tonight. Mike Richards set the tone early, showing a ton of determination in the first period, resulting in a power play goal and a shorthanded one. In the second period, Jeff Carter took over, scoring back-to-back goals less than three minutes apart.

The Flyers coupled some bad luck with a few undisciplined plays in the latter part of the second period, giving the Isles several power play chances, including a five-on-three. John Tavares tried to get his team back into it, scoring two consecutive goals of his own to make it 4-2. But on another power play late in the period, Claude Giroux one-timed a beautiful Richards feed to shift the momentum back to the Flyers side.

Giroux would add one more tally off a beautiful pass from Scott Hartnell to round out the scoring.

Richards, Richards, Carter, Carter, Tavares, Tavares, Giroux, Giroux. Your goal scorers tonight.

With the win, the Flyers jump from 13th to 10th, one point out of the Eastern Conference playoff race with games in hand over the two teams ahead of them. They're also just five points back of 5th place. Things can change quickly id these guys can keep this kind of effort up. Note: Those numbers may be slightly different after other games go final. Still, the point stands -- the Flyers are much closer to playoff positioning then it seemed a night ago.

Much more, including the usual fare -- highlights, questions, comment of the night -- after the jump.

Some assorted thoughts...

Richards is trying his best to put any doubts about his captaincy to rest. He put the team on his back tonight, especially early on, and as Peter Laviolette said post-game, "he played like a captain tonight."
The power play looked faaaaantastic tonight. They moved the puck around beautifully, got plenty of chances, and were just generally awesome. Three for five. Very nice.
A major critique of the Flyers over the last few weeks was that the role players, the bottom two lines, were the best players on the ice for the team. You can't win games when your best players aren't your best players. Well, things changed tonight. The top line of Hartnell-Richards-Giroux was unbelievable. They had a ton of chemistry, a ton of pressure on the puck, and a ton of energy. They seemed to make things happen every time they hit the ice, and it's no shock that they put up seven points.
For those of you who were hoping the Flyers would trade for Martin Biron, did tonight change your mind? He was less than impressive, obviously, by allowing six goals.
Not all of it was Biron, though. Remember those shots that didn't get through on Carey Price last night? Well, they got through tonight. 37 shots total on Biron. That's what happens when you're solid on the PP. The Isles still blocked 11, too.
Johan Backlund was really good at opening the door on the bench tonight. Always aware, always ready, he never left his teammates waiting.
Tavares cross-checked Scott Hartnell into Martin Biron about midway through the third period. Hartnell wound up with 4 PIM while Tavares wound up with zero.
Similar to Sidney Crosby's first game in Philadelphia, a physical Flyers defenseman took a few teeth out of a division rival's highly touted first overall pick. Derian Hatcher knocked Crosby's tooth loose in his first Wachovia Center match, and tonight, Tavares lost a tooth or two thanks to hit along the boards from Chris Pronger. Lighthouse Hockey has something to say about this in their recap, calling him such words as "tool."
No Flyers finished with a minus rating, while no Islanders finished with a plus rating.
The Flyers have won 12 straight against the Islanders.
Laviolette's first win as a Flyer.
Tavares sucks.

Questions With Answers

Power play. Can they turn it around? As already mentioned, mission accomplished.
Goaltending. How does Boucher perform? Solid. Neither goal was his fault. 22 saves.
Sixty minute effort, yay or nay? Yes. How awesome is that? Some might say there was a minor lapse in the second period when all those penalties came, but I'd argue that the penalties came as a result of hard work and pressure.
Can they outwork the Islanders? All night long, baby.

Comment Of The Night

We win tonight.

>> doubleh, prior to the game

Highlights

Game 27, Preview and Open Thread: Se remettre sur les rails, Philadelphia Flyers at Montreal Canadiens

Travis Hughes — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:04:08 -0000

#12 Philadelphia Flyers (13-12-1, 27 pts) at #11 Montreal Canadiens (13-14-2, 28 pts)
Le Centre Bell - 7:30 PM ET - Montreal, Quebec, Canada
TV: The Comcast Network HD, RDS HD
Radio: 1210 AM WPHT, XM 206
This is the open game thread.
Behind Enemy Lines: Habs Eyes On The Prize

Broadcast Note: Take notice above. Thanks to the Allen Iverson show dominating Philadelphia sports media tonight, the Flyers have been relegated to secondary status on television, radio, and probably in the minds of most fans. On local TV, the game will be on The Comcast Network, while the radio broadcast can be found at 1210 AM WPHT.

The Flyers travel north of the border tonight to take on the Montreal Canadiens, another team that is struggling mightily as the season slowly shifts to "not so early anymore." They'll look to get their new coach his first Philadelphia win, but they'll of course be without Dan Carcillo as he serves game one of his four game suspension. Regardless of how you feel about the suspension, Carcillo has been one of the hardest working Flyers over this current stretch of pitiful hockey, and his absence in the lineup isn't good for the team.

Riley Cote will replace him. Enough said, I think.

Ray Emery's absence tonight, on the other hand, might be able to help the team. He's been playing pretty pitiful hockey himself, and after looking absolutely terrible against Washington on Saturday night, he'll give way to Brian Boucher tonight. I hate to say it, but are the words goalie controversy slowly creeping up? If the current trend continues, that could be the case.

Two players that will be in the lineup and should be able to help the Flyers tonight are Claude Giroux and Danny Briere. But since we're playing Montreal, they're looooove their French players and their ridiculous trade ideas for said French players to come "home."

Cue Habs Eyes on the Prize today, talking about better potential trading partners for Guillaume Latrendresse, who they recently shipped off to Minnesota. Now maybe I'm taking the out of context and maybe I'm making nothing about a simple passing idea from a Montreal hockey fan. But still, it seems worthy of a reference. After the jump, if you'd oblige.

How about the Philadelphia Flyers Claude Giroux, whose on a steady upward curve?

Latendresse would have fit in nicely with the Flyers, or would the John Leclair flashbacks have been too scary? Guillaume would have been their type of player, very much in the Tim Kerr mode.

The Flyers, who have been spinning their wheels of late, might have opted for such a shakeup rather than canning their coach.

Such a potential trade could have been sprinkled with a future consideration clause on both sides, based upon 2009 to 2011 production, with draft picks in the balance.

The Habs could also have gotten their mits on Daniel Briere as well, alleviating a million bucks a season over a five year term off the Flyers payroll in the process, by offering up Scott Gomez. I'm not a big Briere booster, but I see him as having more upside in a role with Montreal than Gomez at present.

I'll refrain comment and let you form an opinion on that one. Especially that first one. Latrendresse for Giroux. Yep.

Anyway, that's a tangent and there's a hockey game tonight. Montreal's a poor team, but the Flyers sit behind them in the standings. It's time for the orange and black to prove they aren't a poor team themselves, and that sentiment is going to grow if they can't turn this around as soon as possible.

Flyers Line Combinations - slight changes, Briere and Giroux swap spots; Cote in for Carcillo.

Hartnell – Richards – Giroux
JVR – Carter – Briere
Laperriere – Pyorala – Asham
Cote – Kalinski – Nodl

Questions To Answer

Elements of the slump bust: power play. Can they turn it around?
Element two: goaltending. How does Boucher perform?
Element three: lifeless hockey. The Flyers have looked lazy for weeks. Does that stop?
Element four: the system. Is it obvious that Laviolette has already put in some tweaks to the offense, and if said tweaks are obvious, do they seem to work?

Starting Goaltenders

	GP	MIN	W	L	T	EGA	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
PHI - Brian Boucher	7	357	2	4			15	2.52	170	155	.912	0

	GP	MIN	W	L	T	EGA	GA	GAA	SA	SV	SV%	SO
MTL - Carey Price	21	1234	8	10			57	2.77	653	596	.913	0

As mentioned above, the game tonight is on The Comcast Network (ch. 8 for most, ch. 201 in HD) and on the air at 1210 WPHT. Join us here for the discussion and LET'S GO FLYERS!