Joe Horn said it. "I don't see it as a rivalry. In a rivalry you go back and forth. I win one, you win one. We've beaten them three of the last four. They've got to do better than that to be our rivals."

That's what Horn had to say to the media as Jim Haslett's Saints were preparing to play the "Greatest Show on Turf" (St. Louis Rams) on Monday Night Football in 2001. Turns out, he was right....it wasn't a rivalry. The Rams made an example of the Saints on that Monday night for the whole world to see. The Rams sent a message that night. They showed everyone that the Saints were not a true rival. They were just a division opponent who always got their chest up and played their best games against them. Why? Because the Rams we're top dog and the Saints desperately wanted to be them, that's why.

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Cameron O asked some Saints fans over on the OTA thread to give their opinion on the Patriots. Since I am an old windbag in need of a good editor, I couldn't fit this into the comments section without it looking like I copy and pasted the U.S. constitution, so I decided to put it here as a Fanpost. I hope ya'll don't mind.

Before I begin, let me say that I'm not just some fan of another team offering an opinion on your squad without any forethought or at least some knowledge of your team.

I'm old enough to have followed the Patriots since the days of Jim Nance and Gino Cappelletti. I remember the days of Grogan, Sam "Bam" Cunningham, Mike Haynes, and their battles with the Raiders. I also remember when the Patriots had the prettiest looking set of wide receivers in the whole league (in their uniforms)....Stanley Morgan, Irving Fryar, Stephen Starring, and Cedric Jones....they looked "mah-va-lus".

Just saying....I did not come here to bury the Patriots, I'm here to.....oh hell, you know the rest.

Anyway, after 4 games it's too early to tell, because things are still being worked out on the defensive side of the ball.  But, I will say that contrary to what some Patriots fans seem to think, when it comes to the success or failure of the Patriots, it's not about the defense.

I will use a line by Pats Pulpit's own ISN...."Juggernaut offense, suspect defense".

That seems to be the prevailing thought of quite a few Pats fans I've talked to. While the defense is definitely suspect, the only Juggernaut offense I've seen so far this season has been Green Bay (and I don't know how long that will last).  Yes, the Pats have a high scoring offense, just like the Saints and Texans, but if the greatest Juggernaut offense in the history of the NFL (for 16 games) couldn't get it done in 2007 simply by outscoring teams, then I don't see that happening with this group.

Kerry Byrne and the crew over at CHFF have made a big deal about how the Pats have not won a Super Bowl since the 2004 team and putting the blame squarely on the defense. They even trotted out a bunch of completely one-sided examples that supposedly "prove" their point about how the Pats defense has continually folded and let the team down when they needed them most.

The problem with that is the only game that the Patriots defense has "choked" away has been the AFC Championship game with the Colts following the 2006 season when the Patriots were up 21-6 at the half and 34-31 in the 4th quarter.

It's understandable how they would feel that way given the performance of the defense during the Super Bowl seasons but it's not an accurate picture. Other than that game against the Colts, when the Patriots scored 34 points, the offense has scored 13, 14, 14 and 21 points in their four other playoff losses since the 2004 team.

They have lost.....

27-13 Broncos

17-14 Giants

33-14   Ravens

28-21 Jets

Byrne loves to talk about how the Colts lost all those playoff games, not because of a horrible Colts defense, but because the Colts offense never put up enough points to win those games. Somehow, he is not able to apply that same logic to the Patriots offense.

Right now, I want to exclude the loss to the Broncos for a moment and concentrate on the three losses which have occurred since the Patriots changed their offensive focus following the 2006 season and the collapse to the Colts in the AFC championship game.

It was decided after that season that the Patriots needed more offensive firepower to continue to compete for a championship. After all, it was the dropped passes by mediocre receivers in that game that lost the Pats another shot a Super Bowl, right? So, the Pats went out and loaded up on offensive talent and the 2007 season was born.

But since then, no championships have followed. The offense continues to score even with all the personnel changes (Because you only really need Brady, right?). So, it must be all the defense' fault....right?

Plus, Moss got booted out of town and the offense was able to go back to the "death by a thousand cuts" philosophy in which Brady spread the ball around to everyone and didn't just concentrate on Moss and Welker.

Here's the problem, with that. The "death by a thousand cuts" offense was based on having a dependable running game (notice I said "dependable"), which the Pats have not had in years.

Just because Brady is spreading the ball around to different receivers does not make this a return to the championship formula offense from 2003 and 2004. The running game is not reliable. And, come playoff time, against teams with good defenses who are much more focused and prepared (because it's the playoffs), the Pats offense gets exposed. Just like the Colts offense would get exposed every year when Peyton Manning was 0-for-whatever in playoff games.

Because of all this focus on Brady and how he is such a great quarterback (He definitely is), and how much the offense scores, people just naturally blame the defense for the Patriots not winning another championship.

It doesn't help that they are getting lit up for big yardage by everyone they play right now (so is Green Bay), but that's not what has stopped them from winning a playoff game the last two seasons and it is not what has stopped them from winning a Super Bowl the last 6 seasons (except for the 2006 collapse).

It has been the vaunted Patriots offense coming up small in the playoffs.  Just like the Colts did all those years with Manning.

Some Patriots fans may not want to hear this, but unless that offense can prove that it can do something in the playoffs besides get stopped by team with a good defense, the Patriots are not going to win anything.

Or, they will need a return to the opportunistic defense that could rise up and stop teams at crunch time before all their best defensive players got too old for their contracts and shipped out of town. (Which is what every Pats fan has been hoping and praying)

Don't worry Patriots fans, Belichick is working on that right now. Just give him a little time to mesh these youngsters and veterans together into the current defensive scheme. I think you may be pleasantly surprised....this season.

Please, don't kick an old Saints fan around too hard with your comments. I rooted for ya'll against the Packers in Super Bowl 31. I was also so depressed after Patriots loss in Super Bowl 42 that I could not watch football during the 2008 season until after week 8.

(I really wanted that undefeated season)

Besides this is all Cameron O's fault anyway.....he ASKED for my opinion.

Earlier this morning, the highly charismatic and controversial member of CSC known as "Dog", was killed in what can only be described (once again) as a highly unusual but extremely violent and subsequently quite messy incident in his home when he clicked on a link to Pro Football Talk (an action by itself that deserves a death sentence for stupidity) to view their Power Rankings.

Sources have confirmed that BewareofDog died when his head exploded after reading that Mike Florio, known to CSC members as "jerk", "douche", "hack" and "Satan's Evil Bastard Spawn", had placed the New Orleans Saints at #2 in his rankings behind the Green Bay Packers and AHEAD of the New England Patriots.

This is eerily reminiscent of a similar incident which occurred after BewareofDog witnessed Scott Shanle making a tackle BEHIND THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE on a play in which he stopped the ball carrier for a 2 yard loss during a game between the Saints and Packers in week 1.

It was reported at the time of the "Shanle Incident" that BewareofDog had died but it turned out that he actually survived by some miraculous circumstance due to his consumption of an unknown purple substance.

To make the whole matter even more bizarre, the unknown substance was delivered to his hospital room by a mysterious figure with pig tails and freckles who reportedly yelled, "I'm only keeping you alive until you pay what you owe. Why don't your ass try getting used baseballs every year as a Christmas present?" (Don't try to figure it out...inside joke)

Currently, we have not been able to confirm reports that this incident is in any way related to a series of explosions which also occurred in the Boston, New Orleans, Cincinnati, Dallas, and Wichita areas at various times throughout this morning.

There are a lot of new usernames that have been popping up lately here at CSC since the lockout ended and based on some of the comments; it got me to wondering......

How long have some of you been Saints fans?

So, I put together this little ditty (there's that word again) for some of the newer members (and regulars too) to take a trip through the looking glass of Saints history.

For old-timers and longtime Saints fans it can serve as sort of a stroll down memory lane, while newer fans can hopefully broaden their knowledge of their favorite team and realize that there is indeed a history for the Saints before Sean Payton and Drew Brees showed up.

1. As of 4pm yesterday, 11,237,422 people claim that they were in Tulane stadium on the day this guy scored a Touchdown.

2. Those same 11,237,422 people also claim that they were in the Superdome when this barefooted kicker knocked the Saints out of what would have been their first ever playoff berth.

3. This player was the Saints first ever Pro Bowler.

4. This player was known as "Doc" because he received his medical degree during the time he played for the Saints.

5. How many Heisman trophy winners have been drafted by the Saints?

6. How many Heisman trophy winners have played for the Saints?

7. If the Saints had drafted this player, instead of that year's Heisman trophy winner, the acknowledged "Greatest Linebacker Corp" would have been even better and much sooner (and maybe a Super Bowl???).

8. This longtime Saints player and fan favorite was traded away for a washed up offensive lineman and some magic beans (okay, maybe not the beans).

9. The Saints chose not re-sign this Pro Bowler and former All-Pro who was a free agent because they decided they wanted to go with matching fat guys instead.

Note: This player would be a Pro Bowler four more times playing for a team most Saints fans despise and the two fat guys would play together for only one season before eating their way out of New Orleans. (YEAH...I'm still HOT about that one!!!)

10. Which Saints running backs were selected to the Pro Bowl as rookies?

11. This man was the architect behind two of the greatest defenses in NFL history and should have been the Commissioner of the NFL.

12. Which Saints teammates won a Super Bowl playing on a "Dream Team" defense of superstars that included Deion Sanders?

13. This ex-Saint was the leading rusher on a team that won the Super Bowl and made NFL history because of its starting quarterback. He was also the first ever ________ in Saints history.

14. This player beat out a future Hall-of-Famer and future Super Bowl MVP for the starting quarterback job and was then completely out of football only two years later after a very brief stint with the Saints.

15. This Saints fan favorite did a local commercial in which he proclaimed "I'm no Bum".

16. This local broadcaster spent some time in Dodge City with Matt Dillon before becoming the host of the Saints post game show.

17. The lyrics to this local song about a Saints player included the line, "We'll just point the finger at old Jim Finks".

18. While these two Saints teammates played together, they actively held the NCAA records for most passing yards in one game and most rushing yards in one game.

19. This former Saints player was famous long before Jose Canseco when he told the world about the rampant drug use in the NFL at the time.

20. These two players were not very kind to their teammates. One was accused of breaking up another player's happy home while the other preferred breaking jaws.

21. He was the tallest wide receiver in Saints history that had a knack for catching jump balls in the end zone and committing holding penalties that killed drives.

22. The Saints had the tallest defensive line in the NFL which included a future Hall-of-Famer, a couple of mirror image defensive tackles, and a "shrimp" who was "only" 6'3" tall. How many of them can you name?

23. What team's offense did Saints defenders challenge to come back on the football field to go for it on fourth and goal instead of kicking a Field Goal?

23-A. Which Saints player took off his helmet, pointed and yelled at the opposing teams' head coach on the sideline to get his offense back on the field?

23-B. What was the result of the challenge?

24. Unbelievable!!! It happened twice in one season. This guy caught the first one and this guy caught the second one (it's the second guy most people don't remember).

25. This Saints player held down the Middle Linebacker spot for almost a decade and could probably take Scott Shanle's job even though he's in his sixties and would have to learn a new position. (You should have known I couldn't pass up a shot a Shanle)

26. Bruce Lee, Elvis, and Amelia Earhart are all still alive and so is this guy who was once banned from the Saints team flights and is now hiding in plain sight on this blog and goes by the handle of Coldpizza.

27. This fan favorite's dad once said that his son's biggest problem was that he was slower than he looked after this ex-Saint got caught from behind on a 58 yard breakaway run on Monday Night Football.

After working hard in the weight room and on the track during the offseason, that very same player broke loose on a 62 yard touchdown in which he completely smoked the defenders chasing him in a game the following year.

27-A. What team were the Saints playing in that game?

28. Darren Sproles could look down his nose (literally) at this vertically challenged ex-Saints running back.

29. Speaking of running backs, this opposing player set the NFL record for rushing yards in a season but when his team played the Saints that year he was held to less than 100 yards and the Saints won the game.

29-A. This game was significant for what other reason?

30. What do Bowling Green, Hattiesburg, and Ruston have in common?

Bonus Question: Before lying flat on his back and trying to use the earhole in his helmet to get a better look at the big screen in the Superdome, this ex-Saint was actually a pretty good college quarterback.

(I just can't get that image out of my head)

Note: Those of us in Who Dat Nation who remember your time with the Saints wish you a speedy recovery.

It's one thing that still haunts me. Well, maybe haunt is too strong a word, but I do think about it from time to time....especially during the football season. It's the memory of a wonderfully talented young athlete who played for the New Orleans Saints briefly during the Jim Mora era.

His name was Reggie Sutton.

Do you remember how excited everyone was about Malcolm Jenkins during his rookie season? The kid was fast, physical, and he had a knack for separating players from the ball (and their senses too). Although he was only a backup DB who played primarily on special teams, you could see the talent and you couldn't wait to see how he performed as a starter (which we were all fortunate enough to witness last season).

If you were a Saints fan in 1987, you probably also felt that way about Reggie. Well, maybe you did if you were paying attention. Unlike Jenkins, who was a 1st round draft choice with high expectations, Reggie was a 5th round pick out of Miami in the 1986 draft who didn't even suit up that season because he was placed on the reserve list so he could go through drug rehab.

Reggie had a history of drug use at the University of Miami but the Saints drafted him anyway because of his tremendous talent and also his ability to make big plays on defense and special teams.

I was introduced to him one night in 1988 by Pete Dimitri at one of the nightclubs he owned with his brother. Aside from meeting Reggie, I also remember it being the night that Pete's brother Sal almost shot himself in the a** because the gun in the back of his waistband slipped down into his pants as he was bending over to open a case of Dom Perignon. Seeing that lily white plumber's crack with a .38 lodged in it kind of does something to a man's constitution (you're all welcome to hurl now). The next time I would ever see anything that out of place again was a few years later watching my brother-in-law holding up a cigarette lighter, screaming "Free Bird!!!", at a Wu Tang Clan concert (I shoulda slapped him).

At this point, I should probably go ahead and confess that I wasn't at that concert by choice. My brother-in-law and I were entertaining some clients who were big Wu Tang fans. Sorry Sprinkles, I know you're probably going to be deeply disappointed in me but I have never been able to get into "The Wu". Hey, what do you expect? I grew up in a household dominated by Sinatra, Tony Bennett, and Vic Damone. But....that all changed in 1967 when I discovered Sly and the Family Stone.

Anyway, back to Reggie. (I do have a tendency to wander all over the place)

There are two things that should be remembered about Reggie's very brief NFL career.

1.    In two seasons with the Saints, Reggie had 8 interceptions and several blocked kicks (Punts/Field Goals) which were game changing plays.

2.    He intercepted the last pass Sean Payton ever threw in an NFL game which was the end of his brief career as an NFL quarterback.

I know it may seem like it's not much to hang your hat on for a football career, but it's a lot more than other NFL players have accomplished who played a lot longer.

The reasons my memories of Reggie haunt me is because for a long time, I carried tremendous feelings of guilt about his career as a Saints player being cut so short.

I'm semi-retired now with a business that I run for only 6 months out of the year. But, at one time I was employed for several years by company that specialized in catering to the private indulgences of professional athletes. Reggie was not one of my clients but I was very aware of the people he was associating with and some of them were independent contractors for my employer.

It took a lot of convincing by my wife, brother-in-law, and even my grandson over the years, that there was no legitimate reason for my feelings of guilt.

Reggie was not my client, we were not friends, we weren't even regular acquaintances (hell, I only met him three times in the two seasons he was with the Saints), but I've always felt horrible because I was such a fan and also because I knew the people he got involved with while he was playing for the Saints.

It was my wife that got me to realize that I would have had a hard time reaching one our own children, if any of them ever got involved in drug use (thankfully, none ever did) so I could not expect to think that I could have had an effect on someone I barely knew.

My brother-in-law reminded me that Reggie's problems did not begin when he started playing for the Saints. He had those issues back in Miami.

And finally, my grandson gave me the ultimate reality check by telling me that if I were not such a big Reggie fan, I wouldn't have cared one bit what he was doing or what happened to him.

Ouch.

He's right about that one. I have personally witnessed quite a few athletes over the years destroy themselves and/or their playing careers and didn't bat an eye.

It was business.

But sometimes there are athletes that stick with you for a long time. Probably because of the waste of talent and not living up to expectations, or the waste of a life despite being able to live up to the talent and have a successful playing career.

Athletes like, Bob Hayes, Chuck Muncie, Michael Ray Richardson, Doc Gooden, Steve Howe, and many others, these are guys who can stick with you long after their playing days are over. Unfortunately, a lot of fans who claim to love them when they're playing well for their favorite teams, toss them on the scrapheap of ridicule and scorn when they don't produce anymore.

(I'll get off that soapbox now, with my history I certainly shouldn't be preaching to anyone)

Anyway, I was a big fan a Reggie Sutton.....a HUGE fan.

With all the talk this preseason about that other Reggie, I started thinking about him again.

Just like I do every year.

This entire post is dedicated to the compleat writings and collected works of.....

John Lillison

England's greatest one-armed poet, John was the first person to be killed in a car crash in 1894.

He is best known for his poems..."Pointy Birds" and "In Dillman's Grove"

Pointy Birds

O pointy birds, o pointy pointy,

Anointy my head, anointy-nointy

In Dillman's Grove

In Dillman's Grove, our love did die,

And now in ground shall ever lie.
None could e'er replace her visage,

Until your face brought thoughts of kissage.

This short interlude has been brought to you by...

Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr