I was just wondering how would guys feel about some pau/boozer and beasley/picks trade?

Maybe Pau for Boozer, Watson, and Asik or Butler whichever work out best,

and then maybe the charlotte pick this years pick for Beasley, or some cool 3 way that gets the principles done.

we'd have rose,rip, deng, gasol, noah, brewer, taj, beasley, (bring back) james, and filler.

I think if possible(unlikely at best), we'd have way more balance off the bench as far for the most part just being defense off the bench with thibs being able to just throw in some offense or d at will, if noah gets into early foul trouble he can bring taj and move pau to the 5(even though we would really need to sign a 5 after the trade) brewer can replace rip or deng, i would want beasley playing huge minutes with the starters i kind of see him as the second unit "captain" and he looks like he would excel at role plus cj just comes in and jacks for the most part beasley could easily give some 14-18 point nights with taj, brew, and mike james playing the d. What if this can teach even just slightly better d?

what are some ideas of this working/ failing?

Bulls-Lakers 

Hinrich, Tyrus, Deng, Asik

Bynum, Brown, Walton, Morrison, Farmar, 

Bulls after 2010

Rose, brown

Wade, 1st round pick, Brown

Salmons(Hopefully Not), JJ,1st round pick

Noah, Taj, Bynum, JJ

Bynum, Noah, Gray or free agent big?

or my favorite ...

Rose, Brown

1st round draft pick, gay, salmons, brown

Gay, Salmons, JJ

Noah, Taj, Bynum, free agent big

Bynum, Noah, Gray or free agent big

Laker win a ring

Fisher, Hinrich

Bryant, Hinrich

Deng, Artest, Odom

Odom, Pau Artest, Deng

Gasol, some help lol maybe they sign an extra big?

how about a Bosh/DeRozan to bulls 

for Noah/ Thomas/ Kirk and lottery protected 1st round to raps

Now we all love noah and indeed I do, I also think that they'd be a perfect compliment to each other, but my point is I think it would be easier to find a defensive rebounding center than to find another Bosh. We'd look like

Rose,Hunter

Fish, DeRozan, Pargo

Deng, DeRozan,JJ

Bosh, Gibson, JJ

B52, Gray

then it'll be way easier to try to talk wade from miami or Joe John from the Hawks

then play for a camby

rose

wade/johnson

deng

bosh

camby?

Would you guys like a trade for Ellis and Randolph for a Kirk and a tyrus once he comes back? Would that work cap wise?

Bulls

Rose - Ellis

Salmons - Ellis

Deng-Salmons-Randolph

Randolph-TAJ-JJ(lol)

Super Noah( I like that as his nickname too like super nova)-B52

Granted We lose Kirk's D put we get a more consistent shooter in Ellis who wants out of GS and that transition scorer that will take tons of pressure of Rose scoring wise he could fit similar to how Crawford's playing in ATL and better yet which is more the bulls style when it comes to trades, is Ellis gives a some relief if we don't get a Wade or Johnson and allows us to focus on a BIG MAN and if we do get a wade bosh our guards would be considered at least the Fastest in the league, and randolph as you guy wrote earlier solves the TT cap issues this offseason and plays very similar to TT, It also takes away the possibility of Salmons opting out and us not have a 2 guard.

Also think that move makes us more attractive to a up tempo pf like Bosh.

Let me know what you guys think and also if that trade heads up doesn't let me know some of the combinations that would.

PS I think GS would like this trade because Kirk would help curry and let curry play more off ball and TT and A Randolph are similar. Better yet kirk won't complain even in Nellie ball

I wanted to have a decent chat with some of my fellow bulls fan and see how they felt about this team and our future as bulls fans. I know alot of us are throwing out every trade scenario that we can fathom, and will continue to until our team isn't dull offensively. 

To jump into the thick of what I wanted to discuss was... I feel that our team shouldn't dump half of our role players for a PF unless it is Bosh and Bosh only. Outside of Bosh I feel Stat and Boozer just isn't worth breaking up this unit no matter how bad our offense tends to look. Mind you I wouldn't mind giving up a 2 for 1 like hinrich/Thomas for a boozer, but I feel that the teams that want some sort of Deng,Thomas, Hinrich, Salmons, James, Miller combo is just asking for too much. 

I know we need some Post/Hi-Low PnR scoring DESPERATELY but I think if we can be in position for a lottery or better in the draft we would only have to worry about finding our #1 scorer in free agency rather than Hoping and Praying for this Wade/Lebron and Bosh/Boozer fantasy that WON'T Happen. Why? simple answer is No Player in the entire league likes, respect, or would willingly want to consistently have to deal with JR. Trust me there is no amount of downplaying this fact that can make it untrue, and the nba players know way better than us how bad he really is as a person. For the record the ONLY way Wade comes here next year is if he has some raging fantasy about playing for his home team, that means more to him than the roughly 8-14million per year he'd lose to come play for a horrible organization, and coach. The market means nothing to Wade he is a staple of the nba his popularity won't increase or decrease no matter where he plays minus a New York or LA setting.

I mentioned the draft and any of you college bball fans can agree that the 2010 draft will be as good if not better for PF's than this years draft was for PG's it's Possible that about 40% of the first round next year will be PF's. I mean there are all types of PF's coming out next year minus John Wall(pg) that should be a top 3 if not the no 1.

So what I was thinking about maybe trading just One player for a 6-12 range first round selection instead of trading 3,4, or 5 players for one of those almost aging PF's that may be up for trade this year. My thinking is well make the playoffs this year so lottery is out of the question. If we were to Lure in a Joe Johnson and trade Thomas and our first round for like a 6th pick we would still have a strong team that could contend as soon as our PF's can hold their own. Which should be the 2011 season which is realistically the goal we should be looking at for contending anyway. Face It Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and maybe Spurs and Denver are the ONLY teams that has a chance at winning until the 2011 season.

Rose, Joe Johnson, Deng, Noah, and any average or better Post PF, Taj, and even Kirk  should step into the Next up for Contention role in the East with the down fall of the aging vet's either having diminishing skills or us catching up to thier skill set. Orlando is he only set year in and year out East contender, depending on when or if Boston fizzles out, and where Lebron/Bosh/Wade sign.

My Question to my fellow fans is .... Is the Bulls roster and Cap better suited for a Trade for a Established PF that may only have 3,4, or five yrs in the tank for their career, or Should we try to trade now for a nice draft position and find the best PF for our team, or Should we "Stay the course" and hope big free agent signings???

PS -  Fans that are getting nervous about Rose's play dont worry too much, I know he isn't being aggressive enough yet but the Pg isn't supposed to be the focal scorer in this system and at some time some one has to hit off of a pass for him to get an assist after the circus trip Rose should start some progression and remind us of the guy we all loved last year. His Team Defense IS getting a little better i guess Kirk is rubbing off on him. 

I know it's only 6 games in but the Bulls are looking great(except offensively but that should come). I mean like some of you I miss BG some he filled a need while he was here, but man our defense is even more impressive than the year we swept Miami. Lol I refuse to VDN, Player development, and PaxGarDorf any credit for this start but they may deserve a little. Given that our defense(with Tyrus back and playing level headed which is how he plays more towards the end of the season) is looking like a lock for top 5 defensive fg%. Minus BG and the minutes Jack'em Pargo plays we can night in and night out match up with most teams because A: The "top heavy" Luol Deng is playing Lock Down right now he's crashing the boards he's guarding the no. 1 or 2 scorer every night ( Fish is just as impressive so far his length is a nightmare pure shooters and Noah and TT are our nightmares for all slashers not named D-Wade,KB 24). On another quick note I hope we can figure out how to keep TT around but as a bench player if he doesn't explode when he returns I think his realistic role for this team minus him being a superstar, is that Lamar Odom type of 6th man( You know he does alot of things good, nothing really great) and in his limited time a sf he guarded his man well. Granted our offense sucks right now I really feel that the way our D is we will gain more and more confidence as Rose condition builds. I feel if we can get our defensive image up too very good or even great it will be a piece of cake to will in a Ufa but I dont think It will be a Stat/LbJ/ or Bosh that comes I think our No. 1 target as of now is more like Joe Johnson whom still is a great fit with his shooting and length. I want to ask some you cap experts If it is possible to trade for a PF b4 the deadline, sign Ufa Joe John/D-Wade, and keep TT? I just want to know if that is possible if we go into the cap. I'll keep this one kinda of brief and leave with this... Bulls fans stop being so short with this team, becuase no matter how bad the coach and organization is they will continue to play hard and they are not giving up to anyone. So we should stop giving up on them ala preseason Deng, rookie yr Noah, anytime Pargo. We really need the best from everyone THIS YEAR. I can't wait for trade season. And don't forget Ty is 22 and still has plenty of time to bud as a star even if it isn't for the bulls any one remembers Jermaine O'neal in Portland? Tyrus has more potential than that. PS Kirk is playing amazing too minus the shooting. Noah's a Beast and is as far along offensively as D12 so far D12 is just pure force. Laters Bull watchers.   

Okay this is basically my thoughts of why think it could work but its would take alot of if's which is why i think it'd never happen. 

Okay if it would be possible to sign one star next year i think it would massively upgrade the bulls if and only if Iverson goes 6th man for us or we sign a star pf. I know Iverson said he wouldn't do that again but I think would if the bulls had a serious contender built. I think we would have to get him this year for it to benefit us though but if we could keep kirk for one year and have a 1-2 of rose-iverson,kirk-salmons and even a streaky pargo would be pretty darned competitive. If deng isn't at full strength u go rose ai and salmons.  Now AI would have to revert to @ least a 22ppg scorer for it to work but i think he would fit the system WAY better than ben gordon ever has considering ai attacks the basket to and he jacks just as much as bg but knows how to jack within the flow of the game which doesnt kill momentum.

Now the real pay dirt comes next year depending on which fA we sign (lets face it with out a star next year we are doomed for at least 5yrs guys maybe 7-8) If we were to land wade we'd have Rose, Wade, AI as the sixth would finally force us to ship kirk unless he takes a paycut(his defense would be missed) But we would hands down be the meaning of transition basketball. plus side besides looking pretty darned close the late 80's pistons playing 6th man would extend and rejuvenate Ai's career and he could be 3 times better the jason terry and up to par with ginobili 

But If we were to get AI i think it would be more dominant to go pf next year  rose/ai/deng/bosh/noah -kirk or salmons(more realistically like james johnson by next year) 6 th man would be exactly the mold of type of team our system demands lightning fast transition, speedy bigs we would just defensive role players to balance it out

Ai would also be cheaper than a wade or joe johnson by at least about 6-13 million and we could always just draft a defensive guy to start early and then send in ai. I mean Ai and rose would be crazy together if we had shooters around them it would work because rose is very unselfish and could learn TONS from ai. 

The bull would only have to sell the role to ai and assure him they have his back, clearly explain his value to the team  which could be huge derrick rose would 10 times more inspired to play alongside ai because of the legend factor. and ai could change his image( in a huge market that already loves him) if he leaves the drama which i dont thin would be a major problem if he's feels wanted. 

i just dont know how money would break down but what do u guys think? dont kill me just think about a healthy ai and how fast our offense would be.

Yeah I  think the bulls now should view like Ariza is hands down the #1 free agent on their wish list(if one exists for the bulls) 

Why?  He's the most perfect compliment to Rose and Noah. My opinion a less scoring Pippen type player
He has lockdown big-play defense

He also (more importantly to our orgnization) would be cheap but worth it (maybe the 3-5yr range)

he'd also give us an amazing defense in any post trade situation think about it , Noah,Stat/Bosh,Ariza, Rose, and any sg (maybe we'd keep Salmons) I'd LOVE to see that core grow together for a long time.

It would be a no lose situation if we sign him. He'd have trade value if he didn't work out here, worst case scenario he improves Rose and Johnson @ an accelerated rate (both offensively and defensively).

I know we are clogged @ sf but post trade(if we make one) we'd be gr8 with no matter what players we retain(Noah and Rose are out of the question)

I mean really bulls fans how could this go wrong(barring injuries and vdn staying 2+yrs)???

 In my opinion I feel the Bulls need to be extremely aggressive this offseason to have extreme success next off season, but to do this they would have to go against their own past tendencies.

First off I really believe that we we'll need to pay luxury tax regardless of projected wins this season because, this season may be one of strangest years in NBA history. Teams will be "bargaining" players closer and closer to the deadline. The teams that feel they have a shot will be dumping salary and/or trying to pick up a cheap side kick for there (hopeful) new stars and teams. The teams that know that they are a few years away be trying to dump salary, find hidden gems, and/ or that "lucky" trade like the Salmons trade. The teams that have no hope will be trying any and every thing and collect their annual lottery picks. 

Here's where I think the Bulls could(if they actually understand that amare/bosh and rose alone won't beat the lakers for close to half a decade) close huge gaps between the elites and our current team. I'm not a salary cap expert but if the Bulls can sign YOUNG proven player(like Charlie Vill or Millsap) and at least sign and trade Gordan.

It would take a huge amount of pressure off the Bulls on making a huge roster draining trade. Millsap might actually be perfect for the bulls scheme and would be may more inexpensive than Amare/Bosh whom both right now at best are wishes for the bulls. I believe the Bulls could do the most damage by signing Charlie Vill though (I know sounds crazy). Okay it instantly makes our roster even more lethal, versatile, and also gives our roster great fillers for a post trade situation.

Just say the Bulls do pull off a Bosh/Amare deal we could still have realistic chances this season to compete and not just "find out what our weaknesses are". The raptors want Noah, Suns may want Noah too (after drafting Clark), both will want at least 2 more players maybe some combo of Deng, Tyrus, Salmons, Hinrich, or TIT,Jeromes lottery ticket, or maybe(it's a long shot)Ben. Wouldn't us having some after trade padding be great for our overall team experience(you know an extra year of playoff runs)? If we have to trade ty and/or Noah we'd have another scoring presence that fits well with Rose and the new star. and C-Vill could easily grow into that Odom like role here reunited with bosh, or just growing with the core of him, 1Rose(my nickname for d rose), and bosh/amare.

Like I said I don't know the caps rule in and out but I'm sure the bulls have enough wiggle room to sign someone this offseason (at least with a sign and trade of bg) which would gives us A1 Credit at least until the season opener 2011. We'd have an young competing nuclei that could trade off extra baggage to make room for a star that may come (if the trades fail b4 the deadline this upcoming season) But we would also be very competitive and loaded to the point where teams cant low ball us, and may turn the tide and become elite. The Blazers do it every year : draft young and skillful, make good trades and pursue ALL free agents that fit your team.

I wanted to type more but I'm way to beat bullsfans but I just want spark some good convo about THIS YEAR and next year, ALSO  i'd like more details on how you guys feel we can become elite and /or how soon. I'll tell you like Tyrus told me (about his basketball skills).... Later! 

I also think we need a coach that install offensive and defensive fundamentals. Unless the Bulls jump to an overnight 60 win team attract a 2010 super or all star that'll take Vinny seriously as a championship caliber coach. In my opinion vinny only preaches things from and old phoenix principles. Just being Honest the team is being underdeveloped fundamentally. Tyrus is our intimidating defensive presence and has upside that should be treated just as importantly as Rose's, but in important games Tyrus basically couldn't stay on the court sometimes even after playing well. I'll get back to some of those points later, but I want to talk about how the fans and owners view the bull and how important the is the development of this team is(I want you guys to tell it like it is with your replies). 

Let me know if u agree:

1)Rose is above pace for a Great pg but shouldn't  Our #1 offensive star(needs a complimenting pick,post, and pop big) but also needs defensive fundamentals and awareness (granted the awareness will come in time) and vinny can't coach being a defensive stopper or give you the name of one.

2) Tyrus needs someone to believe in him as sf (he is not a pf), and I know he isn't even thought of as a perimeter player and I dont wont him jackin' 3's but from mid to the hole he could be DEADLY if they develop his dribbling, court vision(he actually isn't to bad at making decisions either when in the flow of the game), and his body. Tyrus could put on 12-16 pounds and be difficult to stop. Imagine Tyrus stronger, tougher and in better condition(he not as tough as josh smith but learning faster offensively.) My only problem is I love Deng and Salmons and tyrus barely plays now at pf.

3) The Bulls eventually will have to address our second biggest need at perimeter defense. I do see them addressing that at the draft though if we have those picks by then. I also see our perimeter d getting a little better if Gordan isn't here. We'll have a bigger rotation with Salmons and Deng playing together a little more. I would really like to see a Trevor Ariza (with offense) like player here, even if it only takes pressure off deng/gordan/salmons/rose we were killed with dribble penetration.

4) I'm tired of the offseason already. I want the draft over, free agency over, preseason over. 

5) I hope Collins comes back after this season to coach. He has proven experience in coaching the areas we need here... defense, leadership, and eventually the ever so important half-court basketball. But I will give the organization some rare, due credit they really aren't screwing things up for a change. If something big happens we're right in position to make a move to get a elite caliber team. Now don't screw it up with stupid draft day trades( i think we could trade up for Hill fairly cheap though) or by being stubborn and let Gordan go with out getting something (pay him, trade him simple) or wasting early development years with your young stars while waiting for big stars

this is my 1st post so be tough fans I can take it (I'm also a Bears fan)