So we've got 9 new Steelers and a bunch of undrafted hopefuls to join them. Where does that leave the roster for the 2012 Pittsburgh Steelers

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In another thread a poster asked why we'd pick a backup ILB in round 3 and not Ta'amu, they had no objection to either player. They just wondered why we couldn't have picked Ta'amu in round 3 and Spence, a guy who will most likely backup Lawrence Timmons was seen as more valuable than a potential starting Nose Tackle like Alameda Ta'amu.

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I've got a few, though I've not had much of a chance to do research this year sadly...

QBs: Kellen Moore - Boise State

WRs: Chris Owuso - Stanford, Junior Hemingway - Michigan, Kashif Moore - UConn

RBs: Michael Smith - Utah State, Daryl Richardson - Abilene Christian

TEs: Don't think we have the roster room but Derek Carrier - Beloit College could be a TE project, or possibly a big WR

OL: I'll leave to others to discuss

NT: Hebron Fangupo - BYU,

DE: Markus Kuhn - North Carolina State, Malik Jackson - Tennessee

OLB: Tim Fugger - Vanderbilt, Brandon Joiner - Arkansas State (interesting story, see below), Sammy Brown - Houston, Cordarro Law - Southern Miss, Adrian Robinson - Temple

ILB: Tank Carder - Texas Christian

CB: Isiah Frey - Nevada

S: Donovan Richard - South Carolina St, Matt Daniels - Duke

Who are yours?

Regarding Brandon Joiner, this guy can get after the QB. He had legal issues stemming from very early or before in his college career, legal issues that could still see him serving up to 2 years in prison. I've done quite a bit of reading on him and it seems he's genuinely turned the corner while he's been playing in college, does a lot of work in the community, etc. so while he represents a huge risk in terms of he may never play the game and spend the 2 years in jail, if you;re talking using one of our 7th rounders to get his rights, I think it could be a good risk to take on someone with talent.

Mostly players I remember from draft research who interested me as potential Steelers, but there's a few guys who might be able to help us throw in too. Feel free to add your own.

Thaddeus Gibson (LB)
Doug Worthington (DE)
Kellen Clemens (QB)
Myron Rolle (S)
Alex Magee (DE)
George Selvie (DE)
Donnie Avery (WR)
Mardy Gilyard (WR)
Sealver Siliga (NT)
Scott Tolzien (QB)
Mike McGlynn (G)
Joselio Hanson (CB)
Reggie Wells (G)
Lito Shepperd (CB)
Jarron Gilbert (DT)
Brandon Meriweather (S)
Will Allen (CB)
Josh Beekman (G)
Terrence Toliver (WR)
Tori Gurley (WR)
Nathan Vasher (CB)
Jeremy Beal (DE)
David Veikune (LB)
Tom Brandstater (QB)
Andre Gurode (C)
Max Jean-Gilles (G)
Brandon Ghee (CB)
Tony Fiammetta (RB)
Tyrell Sutton (RB)
Justin Boren (G)
Kris O'Dowd (C)

I've not really kept up with the careers of most of these guys but Mike McGlynn I was surprised to read about, so I assume there's some story there. Even so, surely an upgrade over Chris Scott?

As everyone else and his dog is doing a final 53.....

Quarterbacks (3): Ben Roethlisberger, Dennis Dixon, Charlie Batch.

This one writes itself following Lefty's injury. I'm not sure of their plans for Lefty but the smart thing to do would be come to an injury settlement with him, release him and stay in touch in case we need him later this season, once he's healed up.

Runningbacks (4): Rashard Mendenhall, Isaac Redman, Mewelde Moore, Jonathan Dwyer

The only question here at all is do we carry 3 or 4. You can make a good argument for 3 but Dwyer's shown some promise and is worth keeping around in a league where RB careers are either short, or you need 2 good guys instead of 1 great one.

Wide Receivers (6): Hines Ward, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Jerricho Cotchery, Arnaz Battle

Battle is on the bubble but I think Sanders' current injury makes keeping that extra WR a smart thing to do, and though a special teamer's impact will be diminished this year Battle is still a useful guy on punt coverage. Once Sanders is fully healed they could opt to go back to 5 Wideouts and promote someone from the PS in another slot.

Tight Ends (3): Heath Miller, David Johnson, Weslye Saunders

The 3rd TE slot is probably the most open, if David Johnson has nailed down the 2nd TE slot I'm not sure that leaves much room for John Gilmore. So I'm going with the young potential in Saunders over the others. Even if he hasn't *really* earned the slot. 3rd TE could still be a slot they see who gets cut from other teams too, but the Steelers rarely seem to do that. Saunders has enough potential I believe he's worth holding onto. 

Offensive Line (9): Chris Kemoeatu, Maurkice Pouncey, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Trai Essex, Marcus Gilbert, Jonathan Scott, Willie Colon, Tony Hills

I think the signing of Trai Essex nailed this lot down, at least to start the season. I don't think either Keith Williams or Chris Scott have done enough to make the roster over Ramon Foster. Foster, hasn't been very good in preseason but he has experience and started for us at times last year. That makes him harder to drop than Williams or Scott, one or both of whom should be safe enough on the Practice Squad. I wouldn't however rule out a move after week 1 (when veteran salaries cease to be guaranteed) to bring back one of Starks or Flozell Adams, with Hills seemingly now a Guard I think it would be more likely to be one of those guys coming in for Ramon Foster, I'd go for Flozell if he's willing to backup.

Special Teams (3): Daniel Sepulveda, Shaun Suisham, Greg Warren

For the talk of Kapinos supplanting Sepulveda I just don't see it. Kapinos is punting well but I think it would take a serious worry over Sepulveda's injury history to go with Kapinos. I like Kapinos but I see Sepulveda's tactical kicking as the clincher for him.

Defensive Line (6): Casey Hampton, Chris Hoke, Aaron Smith, Ziggy Hood, Brett Kiesel, Cameron Heyward

As of right now this lot picks itself. I could make a good case for several of the younger guys replacing Chris Hoke, and Dale Lolley alluded to Hoke's onthebubbleness in his Q&A session too, but I just have a hard time seeing it. Especially with Big Snack getting a bit dinged up in the Falcons game. I think that alone will scare them into keeping Hoke and hoping at least one of the younger guys will stick on the Practice Squad.

Linebackers (8): James Harrison, Lamarr Woodley, James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons, Stevenson Sylvester, Chris Carter, Jason Worilds, Larry Foote

This is a tough one. I question the depth beyond our 2 starters at OLB and it could be a reason to see who else gets cut around the league, which would leave Chris Carter vulnerable. It's also tough on Mortty Ivy who's on the outside looking in because of our need to keep an extra CB.

Safeties (4): Troy Polamalu, Ryan Clark, Ryan Mundy, Will Allen

The first 3 are easy, I like what I'm hearing on Ryan Mundy this offseason and Will Allen I would think would win a battle with Cromartie-Smith based on his Special teams play, but with Battle also on my roster, mostly for ST work keeping DC-S over Allen might be a legitimate option.

Cornerbacks (7): Ike Taylor, Bryant McFadden, William Gay, Keenan Lewis, Crezdon Butler, Curtis Brown, Donovan Warren

With the injuries in the Defensive backfield I just don't see how they can keep Cortez Allen over Donovan Warren. At least not initially anyway. I have Arnaz Battle making the team largely because of Sanders' questionable status right now meaning we carry 6 WRs. Once Sanders is proven healthy if I were GM I would look to let Battle go and bring Cortez Allen up from the practice squad. That should be early in the season and perhaps when Allen himself is not fully fit so it's very unlikely a team would pick him up before then. There is still a possibility a veteran could be cut loose, everyone expects it to be Gay, I do not. If one of them goes I think it could be McFadden. Gay gets a lot of stick, much of it unreasonable. He's not a star but he is what he is, a sure tackler who does not give up much in the way of YAC manning the slot. If Lewis or Butler can start outside, Gay would not need to be put into that situation and McFadden could be the odd man out. For me, I wouldn't be averse to having 8 CBs on the roster and losing Battle. We have a lot of niggly injuries at Corner and plenty of question marks. I think it's necessary until we get a clearer picture of what we have there.

I'm in the process of writing an article on draft needs for the Panthers and to me the fundamental question is have the Panthers given up on Jimmy Clausen already?

Obviously he was awful last year, my experience of watching him mostly revolved around lowlights on SportsCenter and the full game of Carolina against my Steelers. I'm kind of of a mind that you can't call a QB done in this league after just one season thrown into the deep end on a struggling team.

Is there really no hope for him? Or is the talk of Blaine Gabbert or Cam Newton with the #1 overall pick more of a factor of new coaches and having the opportunity to get a QB?

The more I look at the Panthers' situation the more I think what you really need more than anything is to try and get hold of Matt Hasselbeck or Billy Volek to run the offense for a year or two while Clausen learns the pro game. To me even if you lose DeAngelo Williams the running game is still strong, the receivers are young but promising. I can see a gap there if the trade of Steve Smith happens but not without it.

Would I be waaay off base in thinking the best way for the Panthers to really go in the draft is to get better up front on D? Something that, allied with a veteran QB, would give them the ability to rush more in games and really use their strength on offense? I mean the Panthers rushed almost 20% more in 2009 than they did in 2010.

Would love the input from guys who watch them every week. From where I stand it looks like you have a pretty young team in a lot of positions that typically take a while to develop but DT still looks like a major headache?

Well, almost anyway. I've collated all the data I can find online from various sources. I'm still going as at the moment some of the positional groups are restricted to the top 15 times in things like the 20 yard shuttle and 60 yard shuttle. But most of it is there, including the Kirwan Explosive Index (or whatever the hell KEI stands for) for those of you into that sort of thing.

Wonderlics are obviously still missing, the only score out in the open so far is Greg McElroy's 48/50. There's no promises on the Wonderlic though, a couple of years ago most of them got leaked. Last year, only a handful of QB and RB scores seemed to come out. The Combine keeps a fairly tight lid on that sort of thing.

You may also notice the fastest 40 time does not belong to Buster Skrine. I've got the official 40 results in there at the moment but there can be big discrepancies between the stuff NFL Network shows and the official times the NFL eventually puts up on their combine website. Looking at Skrine's other drill times I would have to believe he ran better than a 4.48s 40 but there you go.

Draft Board Insider Combine Results

and if you fancy a look around the rest of the site while you're there be my guest. More scouting reports are coming soon as are detailed team needs and we're looking at our Value Boards as I speak.

Feedback much appreciated.

1. The Jets' clock management really, really blows. We didn't have to do too much to run out the clock at the end because they'd already done most of it for us! When they kept running inside and not really hurrying too much to get the next play off. When they passed but couldn't get out of bounds... I think it showed a lack of quality play calling on the Jets behalf and some inexperience on Sanchez.

2. Arians second half play callnig wasn't much better. We ran all over the Jets in the first half so what do we do in the second half when we're 2 scores up? Cute passes and draw plays? Come on. We can do better. We did better. Keep doing what they can't stop until they stop it.

3. Ziggy Hood is the next great Steelers Defensive End. We've filled in for Aaron Smith before but Hood is more than just the fill in play we got from solid pros like Kirschke and Eason. Hood is the second coming of Smith. And he's going to get even better.

4. Steelers best signing of the year may very well be Sean Kugler. What our OL has done has been no more than adequate over the season. But getting an adequate line out of the cast offs and backups he's had to this year shows what a smart hire he was. OK Legurksy fluffed a snap or two but I thought he filled in admirably for Pouncey, just like Foster has all season, just like Flozell and even Jonathan Scott has done at times.

5. I think Big Ben may be playing with an injury that's affecting his throws. His accuracy and deep ball were way off today. Maybe it was the cold but he should've had 3 TDs. To Heath early on, he threw too far ahead of him but Heath nearly came up with the great catch (I've seen more obvious no catches allowed recently). He badly underthrew Wallace and Revis really should have intercepted. Finally his second INT, he had a man WIIIIIDE open and threw such a poor pass Brodney Poole easily intercepted it. His stat line looked awful today but if he was throwing right it would have been 280 yards 3TD 1 INT. I hope nothing's wrong and it was just the conditions. But he didn't look right to me. Maybe the hip/thigh injury affected his throwing motion?

6. The media will point out what great stats Sanchez had but I think he was only so so. He played well in the second half. But let's look at it closer. The vast majority of his yards were against a prevent giving him easy completions over the middle of the field. His TDs came on blown coverages. Nice that he spotted it but those are rare occurrences against good defenses. My opinion: Sanchez is not quite ready to put his team on his back and carry them. But he showed some signs today.

7. Mendy looks like he had Peter King's Article pinned to his locker all week. I still think King is right, Mendy is not (yet) a big time back in the NFL. But todays performance was a big step in the right direction. We should have used him and Redman more in the second half. I still crap myself every time I see that ball swinging low and wide in one arm though. High and tight Mendy, High and tight.

8. We miss Santonio Holmes. I know we have Wallace and two promising rookies but a couple of drives in the second half Ben couldn't find anyone open. He scrambled a few times, took a couple of sacks... you have to think Stonio would've got us a few key first downs in that 3rd quarter. We've got 2 good rookies to replace him. But they're still rookies.

9. Mangold had his hands full today. At one point I thought Casey was going to pick him up and use him to knock Sanchez over with.

10. Ike Taylor had a bit of a shocker. Largely responsible for most of the Jets' bigger plays today I think. Including the 2 TD throws. Got beat and slipped over on the first and ran into his own man on the second. Result: wide open Jets receivers. Anotheer bad play by him on a first down pass to Stonio. I have no idea what he was doing on that play.

I thought he could use a little work on catching the ball off the long snap but I thought Suisham actually punted the ball pretty well. It would have looked superb if those 2 inside the 10 hadn't come back for silly penalties too.

I mean, he wasn't a world beater by any stretch but he had a better game as a punter than Mitch Berger ever did for us IMO. Any chance at all we

a) ask him to both punt and kick
b) give him a bit of a pay rise to reflect the increase in duties
c) get Randle-El to start practicing as the holder?

Or is there some good punting replacement out there?

I had to have a bit of a chuckle to myself when I knew Big Ben was going to be playing but say him arrive at the stadium with a cast on I thought, oh man, taking the ball under center and turning to the RB might be a real problem for them tonight. Then I thought of the Pistol formation I've seen a fair bit of in College Football this year and thought, you know, for a QB with a bum ankle the Pistol might be the way to go.

I felt about 5 IQ points smarter when they rolled out exactly that on the first drive.

I don't think we really showed what the Pistol could do in the NFL tonight but I really think it's something they should persevere with this season. The Nevada coach who "invented" it had such a great point. He hated the Shotgun. Why? Because every defender on the field knows it's going to be a passing down. With the outside chance of a Draw Play. The Pistol still gives you a genuine running option other than a draw and still gives you playaction options as well.

The Steelers were pretty vanilla with it last night but I think this is something that could really work for us down the stretch.

With Big Ben out 4-6 games and quite a lot of young players on the roster (thanks to 2 big and pretty handy draft classes) is this perhaps a year the Steelers look to hold onto some rookies over veteran role players with a view to a push in 2011?

Under Colbert rebuilding years are never even reall a consideration for the Steelers. He's done as good a job as anyone in the league of keeping us competitive without going through wholesale demolitions of the roster. but, with some units getting up there in age and some useful, if raw youngsters on the bubble could it be the year to use as a springboard to bigger things in 2011-2013?

Here's a look at some decisions they could look at if they're approaching 2010 as a rebuilder:

Runningback: Could they let loose Mewelde Moore with a view to the future here? Moore's a definite asset but he's getting older and had more value as a 3rd down back when Willie Parker was our starter. Mendy is very good out of the backfield and Redman picks up the blitz well. Dwyer could be a change of pace on running downs. Is Moore really needed on a team looking more forward than to the present? I'd say not.

Tight End: The only consideration here might be keeping 2 TEs and using a roster spot to keep a youngster elsewhere. I'd argue David Johnson's superior blocking means he should be the 2nd TE in the 2 TE sets anyway. Spaeth has more value replacing Miller when he's hurt. I think keeping just 2 TEs is a pretty unlikely option though.

Wide Receiver: Any decision here favouring younger players over vets would have to come down to how many we keep. If it's only 5 do they cut Arnaz Battle in favour of Antonio Brown? Or if they keep 6 could they opt for London over Battle?

Offensive Line: This one's a toughie, because even if you're rebuilding for a year you still don't want to get your first round QB and first round RB killed. That serves no purpose. So, as ropey as our OL is I don't really see this as a position where youth wins out. However, I think Hills has actually earned his slot this year. The questions come down to how many they keep and do they cut Hartwig loose to give say, Kraig Urbik another shot?

Defensive Line: Is still old. Could they opt to keep Sonny Harris and Doug Worthington over Nick Eason with an eye to the future?

Linebackers: We know they're really unlikely to cut a second round pick, but this far Worilds has not shown as much as the other 2 rookie LBs. Which is mostly down to untimely injuries. So with a lineup that already includes Timmons, Woodley, Harrison, Foote, Farrior and Fox, might they say goodbye to Larry Foote and keep all the rookies?

Defensive Backs: We're pretty young here with rookie Crezdon Butler looking like a useful player already. Would we sacrifice the STs ability of Anthony Madison to keep a hold of Butler/Burnett/Lewis?

Just reading Johnny_S's article today and noticed the discussion and link to the Hypocycloid formation article posted last season, there was this comment:

The four receivers include: Mike Wallace (speedy), Heath Miller (catchy), Hines Ward (crafty), and the bog dog, Stefan Logan (shifty).

We can call Sweed droppy, Spaeth blocky (sarcastic), Santonio can be smokey and we’ve got the seven dwarfs, Steelers style.

Figured it's time to update the nick names, mostly because I'm bored. Seems like Smokey and Droppy are gone for the season, so what's the updates on the nicknames?

Mike Wallace is still Speedy
Heath Miller is still Catchy
Hines Ward still Crafty
Stefan Logan still Shifty

I'll offer up a better nickname for Spaeth: Stretchy. After his ability to "stretch the field"... was it Whizz who came up with that?
Which leaves us with needing nicknames for:

Emanuel Sanders: Silky maybe?
Antonio Brown:
Arnaz Battle:
Antwaan Randle-El: Gadget?

Just looking purely at the Trade Value Chart here:

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

1.18 = 900
2.52 = 380
3.82 = 180
4.116 = 62
5.151 = 31
5.155 = 29.4

Moving up in Round 1:
a) Trade 1st, 4th and a 5th moves us up to #16
b) Trade 1st and 3rd moves us up maybe to #14
c) Trade 1st and 2nd moves us up to maybe #10
d) Trade 1st, 2nd and 3rd moves us up to #8, possibly #7

Moving up in Round 2:
a) Trade 2nd, both 5ths moves us up to #46
b) Trade 2nd, 4th and a 5th moves us up to #43, maybe #42
c) Trade 2nd, 4th and both 5ths moves us up to #40
d) Trade 2nd, 3rd moves us up to  #34
e) Trade 2nd, 3rd and both 5ths moves us up to #30 (2nd, 3rd and 4th has same effect)

Miscellaneous:
a) trading 4th and both 5ths would get us #95 (end of 3rd round)
b) trading 3rd,4th and both 5ths would get us to #60 (end of 2nd round)

So for my money what might bring the most value, if they could be swung of course, would be stay where we are in round 1 then package our 2nd and 3rd pick to move up to the top of round 2. Then trade the 4th and 2 5ths for a late 3rd round selection. Would give us a draft something like this:

1.18
2.34
3.95
5.164
5.166

The practice squad shall consist of the following players, provided that they have not served more than two previous seasons on a Practice Squad: (i) players who do not have an Accrued Season of NFL experience; and (ii) free agent players who were on the Active List for fewer than nine regular season games during their only Accrued Season(s). An otherwise eligible player may be a practice squad player for a third season only if the Club by which he is employed that season has at least 53 players on its Active/Inactive List during the entire period of his employment. A player shall be deemed to have served on a Practice Squad in a season if he has passed the club’s physical and been a member of the club’s Practice Squad for at least three regular season or postseason games during his first two Practice Squad seasons, and for at least one regular season or postseason game during his third Practice Squad season. (A bye week counts as a game provided that the player is not terminated until after the regular season or postseason weekend in question.) and who did not dress for more than eight (8) regular season games during their only accrued (i.e., on the 53 man roster for at least 6 games) season.

Just looking at who would in this case still be Practice Squad eligible of the cuts, any CBA lawyers wanna help out that would be great, :

Dallas Baker - I think is still eligible as I think despite being on the 53 man roster for 9 games last year he was inactive for one game.
Jason Capizzi - Doesn't have an accrued NFL season and has done 2 years on the Practice Squad. Should be eligible.
Piotr Czech - eligible
Bruce Davis - I think he's eligible... only dressed for 5 games last year (his only accrued season) so I think he fits the rule.
Tyler Grisham - eligible
Sonny Harris - eligible
Tom Korte - eligible
Roy Lewis - eligible. Doesn't have an accrued season, though he was on the active roster for a couple of games last year
Anthony Madison - not eligible. Has more than 1 accrued season on an NFL active roster
Steve McClendon - eligible
Jeremy Parquet - ineligible - has more than 1 accrued season (2005 with KC and 2008 with us)
Scott Paxson - eligible I think. May not even have one full accrued season but even if he does he wasn't dressed for 9 games so he should get one more shot on the PS
Isaac Redman - eligible
Mike Reilly - eligible
Andrew Schantz - eligible
Dezmond Sherrod - eligible
A.Q. Shipley - eligible
Justin Vincent - eligible
Brandon Williams - ineligible I think, I believe he has more than 1 accrued season
Donovan Woods - eligible. 2008 was an accrued season for him (on active roster for more than 6 games) but dressed for less than 9 so he remains PS eligible

Did I miss anyone? TO sum up, including that not dressed for more than 9 games, a lot more guys are eligible than I thought. I think 17 of our cuts may be Practice Squad eligible. So who will the 8 be?

Capizzi, Shipley, Woods, Reilly, Davis, Harris, Baker, Roy Lewis perhaps?

Does anyone have details for the Carey contract? I've seen his salary info, his roster and workout bonus for 2009 and his signing bonus. But I've also seen the CBA and by my estimation, that roster bonus is considered a signing bonus not salary, because it's the Final Capped Year so it's pro rated across the length of the contract.

The problem that causes is that in order for Carey's deal to fit under the 30% rule (which comes into play because this is the Final Capped Year) Carey's salary for 2009 would need to be AT LEAST around $2.5m. That would mean he'd need to have around $1.5m in Likely to be Earned Incentives in the first year of his deal or else the Carey contract would breach the CBA.

Now before you go nuts, hear me out. Trading is not something we usually do with players. Sean Mahan aside I struggle to remember the last time the Steelers traded away a player. But I find this worth looking for a few reasons:

1) We spent a first round pick on a guy who looks like he could be an every down back next year and a good backup in Mewelde Moore.

2) We desperately need to improve our OL

3) Picking #32 is unlikely to get us a top notch Offensive Tackle

4) Trading FWP saves $3.6m against the cap

A closer look at the numbers, Parker's scheduled to hit the 2009 cap for $4.538m of which $937,500 remains of his pro rated $3.75m signing bonus. If we trade him we take that $937,500 hit as dead money but clear $3.6m.

Now I think Parker represents awful good draft day trade bait, the sort of player who might gain you an extra second rounder or perhaps catpault you from #32 to mid first round. Even if we don't snag that tackle in the first round via the trade clearing the cap space is good for helping us bring on board a good free agent Offensive Tackle instead. I know many people will probably have a problem even discussing this but to me trading away a player in a position of strength to gain advantage at a position of weakness is something of a no brainer if you can get the deal done.