It's been sort of touched on here or there, but what do you guys think Bobby Evans and co. are going to argue against Lincecum if they go to hearing? it's got to be the hardest case in league history to argue against, so what do you think their approach will be?

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I honestly feel like I wasn't invited to a big party, the love Stephen Curry party, because for the life me I still can't see why people (not just GSW fans) love this guy so much as an NBA player. Can you guys please explain to me why you (if you do) like Curry so much and why you think he will be an above average NBA player? Expanding further, since it seems semi-inevitabel that the Warriors will have to eventually choose between him and Monta, why we should choose Curry?

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I did a search of fanposts and nothing came up so I really, really hope I am not repeating someone else here, but here we go.

Rajai Davis. Yes, Rajai Davis. Have you guys seen what he's been up to across the bay hitting .318/.376/.432 with 40 steals & a WAR of 3.7 in only 380 PA's. To put that in some perspective, on this club that would make him the 2nd best position player and on a per game perspective, out BEST player according to WAR.

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To me, I think the Padres offense is in pretty good shape and if the front office is smart about things, their offense could really be special next year. We don't know exactly what the payroll will be set at, but it seems like Moorad said it will raise a bit, so conservatively I think we can expect something around 50-55 million. If it all breaks right, this team could take a big leap forward.

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Zito is owed 83 million over 4 years (or 94 million over 5 years) and Soriano is owed 90 million over the next 5 years.

Both contracts are terrible, and if I had asked this question last year I'm sure everyone here would have shouted "obviously, where do I sign?" but this year Soriano has been terrible and Zito has regained some of his old velocity and form.

So if this was a realistic option in the off-season, would you want it?

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First off, this is not a gloom and doom post about the greatness of the Rockies and how we can't beat them. I was just examining their team recently and I have to say, their bench with expanded rosters is perhaps the most amazing bench I have ever seen. No, it's not the reason they are winning, but I just find it remarkable. Here is the lineup you can make just off of their bench players

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Please no posts about how this is stupid because it will never happen. I know that, you know that, we all know it. This is simply hypothetical fun.  What do you guys think would happen if Sabean brought back Barry (today is the last day to add a player on the 40-man for post-season eligibility) to play a couple weeks in September and into the post-season??? (You can answer with a stat line, general idea, whatever you want).

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I see a lot of Bochy bashers on here, and while I'm certainly not a Bochy fan, I don't really consider myself anti-Bochy either. Part of this probably stems from my general view that a manager is just not supremely important, but certainly not all of it since I am aware it is the manager's decision on how use his personnel.

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All this talk about Dan Uggla's defense vs Uribe's vs Freddy Sanchez, etc. got me to thinking about something. Do any stats take into account a player relative to his teammates (namely, a 2B's range relative to his 1B, an SS relative to his 3B, CF's relative to his COF's, etc.)? This is a pretty important issue, because from a team production standpoint, it's not really relevant how many runs your 2B can save you vs the rest of the 2B's, it's how much your right side of the infield can save you vs other right side's of the infield. The right side doesn't really affect the left side, and visa versa, but really team defensive production really needs to be broken down into 5 areas: right side of INF, left side of INF, OF, right side of INF relative to OF, left side of INF relative to OF.

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Sorry for the rapid number of recent fanposts/shots, but my work has finally reached a bit of slow period and I can focus on some Giants talk. Anyhoo, here is my question, which player would you rather acquire at the trade deadline?

Player 1

31 years old, due 8 million in 09, 8 million in '10

329 PA's, .316 avg, .355 OBP, .477 SLG, .356 BABIP, .358 wOBA, 6 homers, 18 BB's to 45 K's, UZR of 3.2   (in NL)

Prior to this year had a 3 year avg of:  .306/.340/.429, 1 HR per 73 PA, 84 BB's to 191 K's, OPS+ of 101, UZR of 4.0

Player 2

30 years old, due 5.8 million in 09 and then FA

319 PA's, .301 avg, .342 OBP, .480 SLG, .316 BABIP, .347 wOBA, 12 HR, 14 BB's to 40 K's, UZR of 2.3   (in AL)

Prior to this year had a 3 year avg of:  .294/.336/.460, 1 HR per 34 PA, 74 BB to 198 K's, OPS+ of 103, UZR of 3.0

These two have a lot of similarities on paper, obviously there's a few smaller differences, but more or less hitters of similar ilk.

So who would you rather have??? Shocking answers after the jump.

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Matt Cain has had all-star caliber results this year, which has been a huge part of our success to this point as well as why he is a candidate to start in next week's all-star game. We've all marveled at his 2009 and how he's grown as a pitcher, improved his changeup immensely, and essentially "broken out" to be the ace we've all hope he could always be.

However, has Cain really broken out or improved at all?

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I realize this is about two weeks late, but I saw the Cal league All-Star game a few weeks ago and thought I'd share some observations on some of the players of interest at the game. Obviously, all I saw was a ridiculously small sample size of all of these players, but nonetheless, here are my snap judgments.

Buster Posey

The kid clearly has an aura about him. Both behind the plate and in the box you can tell he's a special player. His first at-bat in this game he lined an outer half fastball into RF to drive in the 1st run of the game. It's always nice to see a young player go the other way, especially on the 1st pitch when a player (should) look for one pitch in one area and look to drive it. To look for an outer half fastball is to understand that generally the guy you're going up against has a clue of what he's doing and isn't just going to lay one in  to get ahead. It was nice.

He struck out in his second at-bat, but he fought off nice pitches against Ryne Miller, whose curveball was unhittable to every hitter in the Cal League lineup and helped him garner 5 K's out of the 6 batter's he faced. Of those 5 K's, 4 struck out on the curve ball (3 looking) and Posey fouled off two very good curveballs by Miller. He ended up striking out on a fastball in. Considering how locked in Miller was that night (clearly the most dominant pitcher of the night, albeit at nearly 24 years old) I'd say Posey's at-bat was definitely a plus here as well.

As for his receiving skills, well, there's nothing NOT to like there. This guy has always reminded me of Russell Martin (pre 145+ games a year breakdown) and his receiving mirrors Martin's in my book. Polished, excellent, good at framing pitches, and can block balls in the dirt with ease. Posey in my opinion is defensively RIGHT NOW better than anythign the Giants have had at catcher since Matheny (and would probably be a top 5 defensive catcher in the bigs).  What I also liked about Posey is that he doesn't tip pitches with his set-up. This is a very common problem with young catchers as they will spread their legs open way too early when an offspeed pitch is coming (and only do it for offspeed pitches) which is basically telling a hitter that he won't be getting a fastball. Posey not only set up for offspeed pitches late, but he would also setup for offspeed pitches when fastballs were coming, so you really couldn't know what to expect based on how he set up.  This is something really simple that almost all catchers have down by the time they reach the bigs, but Posey already has it down, so it was nice to see. Didn't get to see him throw, but his warmup throws were great for what it's worth. 

I've said it since before the draft and I'll continue to say it. To me, Buster Posey looks like Russell Martin, and as long as the Giants don't beat Posey into the ground as LAD did Martin, that should make him one of the top 5 catchers in the game (considering 3 of those would be Wieters, Mauer, and McCann, that's pretty elite company). Let's not forget just how good Martin was as a 24 year old big leaguer.

Thomas Neal

This guy certainly looks like a player. Great baseball body, good swing, just seemed to me like a guy who really has all the necessary ability to be a big league outfielder (offensively that is). His swing was not too long, but quick enough to be powerful. Excellent balance his swing, that's probably what stood out the most to me. Clearly had a good mental gameplan in the batters box (worked a nice 8 pitch at-bat leading to walk his 2nd at-bat) and looks like a guy who is very athletic (although I didn't get to see if that is actually true).

To me, he seems like a fundamentally strong hitter without a real weakness (although last year's strikeout rates might suggest otherwise). At the same time, I don't think he struck as a guy who had any particularly elite hitting strength, but hey, being decent at all aspects is enough to make you a successful hitter. If he were to remind me of one big league hitter I'd probably say he reminded me most of was Vernon Wells, although he doesn't have that frame just yet and like thus not quite the power (or defense).

Bottom line, while I think his stats will regress a bit (and inflated a bit by league factors, etc.) I do buy the breakout. The guy looks very much like a talented hitter whose really turned the page by developing his power a bit more (common as players get older) and cutting his K's. I can't really say much about his defense, but if he can be a capable defender (body type looks like that'd be more than attainable) this guy definitely looks like he could be a league average ML corner outfielder, which is quite good (and probably a bench mark Lewis and Schierholtz fall short of).  It seems to me like the offensive talent has always been there, and he's now materializing it.  He was the pleasant surprise of the night, since Posey is so hyped it'd be hard for him to really shock anyone.

Roger Kieschnick

Well, if you've been reading my glowing things about Posey and Neal and think I'm a Giants homer that loves all of our prospects, here's why I might redeem myself to show a shred of objectivity. To sum up my thoughts on Kieschnick for the night I would say this: Kieschnick cannot hit left-handed pitching. He faced two lefties today, Duffy and Loop, and struck out against both of them. The Duffy at-bat was tolerable because a) Duffy is a stud and b) he worked it to 3-2, but Derrick Loop is as fringy a player as there was in this game.

Loop is 25 (closer to 26) in high A ball and he's never hit 90 mph on a radar gun once in his life. He sits at 85-87 with his fastball, so imagine Barry Zito without his big price tag and curveball and you have Derrick Loop. It's one thing to strike out, but it quite another to swing and miss on 3 pitches ALL out of the zone and ALL just completely and utterly mediocre. Fastball 85 mph 8 inches, miss. Soft slider, low and away, out of the zone he misses it by 4 inches. Then finally blow away at a fastball just above the letters tailing at a whopping 87 mph that Kieschnick made look like it was 97 based on how late he was on it. Derrick Loop should dominate no one, this guy is nearly 26 and in A ball with stuff you can see at any high school or JC, and yet he was able to dominate Kieschnick like Randy Johnson dominating Larry Walker.  Funny thing about all this is that Kieschnick's minor league splits aren't even that terrible versus lefties (.774 OPS), although as Fred Lewis and countless others can attest to, that can be misleading due to the disproportionate amount of poor lefties in the minors. Teams are always willing to give Lefties more chances and the minors is the place you will see a high amount of guys given these chances. By the time they reach the bigs however, those lefties are usually weeded out at a higher rate than that of righties (who are professionals based on merit and not dexterity).

Now, obviously these are just two at-bats, so in they really don't mean all that much, but as a guy who liked the Kieschnick draft pick, I have to say, he looks fringy to me. The guy sort of reminds me Brad Hawpe in the box, especially with how he uses his hands leading up to and during his swing, but his swing is longer and doesn't nearly generate the bat speed of Hawpe's (and nowhere near the plate discipline). His minor league numbers are pretty mediocre as well when you consider he is a polished 22.5 year old college player in the Cal League that has a 1:4 BB to K ratio.  This kid clearly has his holes and I think it's only going to get worse the higher he goes. I could see him as big leaguer in a bench role as a LH power bat vs righties (like Matt Stairs, only not the good years of Matt Stairs when he was with OAK, the more recent Matt Stairs) and that would be a decent return for a 4th round pick. For a guy with his power to walk as little as he does, it truly shows just how bad of plate discipline he has. There's no way guys are pounding a hitter with his power with strikes, he's clearly a chaser, and that only gets exposed more and more.

Danny Duffy

KC prospect - This guy is the man. he really wowed me in this game and the Royal's look like they got a steal in the 3rd round when they drafted him out of HS. The guy reminds me so much of Jeff Francis, only he won't have the misfortune of having to pitch in Colorado (Francis could have been a perennial all-star had be been with any other team).  I'm not saying Duffy will be a perennial all-star, but his stuff was very crisp, he could locate it, and best of all he is very young for this league and is extremely poised. Pretty much everything I'd want in a pitcher, Duffy has. He's no Bumgarner, but he's probably one of the top 5 left handed SP prospects in the minors right now, at least in my opinion. Not incredibly nasty, just very, very good and polished. I bet he's in the bigs by 2011.

Wynn Pelzer

SD Prospect - Nasty stuff, always has had it. He's old for the Cal League (just turned 23), but also didn't pick up pitching until late. He's got great arm action and excellent movement on his fastball that sits in the low 90's. It's a 2 seamer that generates a lot of GB's (2.3 GB/FB ratio) and he also has 2 very nice complementary pitches. He only showed his slider tonight, which got him a swingthrough, but he also has a very nice change up, which has gotten him a lot of K's this year. His slider's his best pitch, but I think all 3 are plus pitches and if he has the mindset, mental toughness, and durability he could be a nice ML starter. I'm sure most people project him in the pen though, based on his FB-SL combo missed with his ability to get GB's.

Trayvon Robinson

LAD prospect - His offensive game is clearly reminiscent of Jimmy Rollins. He's a switch hitter with decent pop, great speed, and it seems clear Robinson might have even modeled his swing and stance off Rollins. However, outside of appearance and styles, that's where it ends for me. I just don't think he has anywhere near the talent of Rollins. He plays CF, and is certainly athletic enough for the position, but I don't buy his 2009 "breakout". He's hit 11 homers this year in 369 PA's which nearly matches his career minor league total of 12 homers in 950 PA's prior to this year.  He's not too old A ball (just under 22) but he's repeating it and benefiting from that fact. I think this guy will make the big leagues, but probably as nothing more than 5th outfielder who is used to PH, spot start, and PR. Just included him in case any Dodger fans were around so I could rain on their parade if they like this kid. he still features about 1:3 BB to K ratio despite repeating A+ ball. Way too much for a guy whose game is based on speed.

Logan Forsythe

SD propsect - Didn't go anything in this game, but has a .468 OBP on the season with a 1.20 K/BB ratio. He's now in AA. The Kevin Youkilis comps are certainly sure to follow with this guy as he gets more attention, and he's a surprisingly good athlete given his player type. I've even heard rumors he might switch from 3B to 2B.

Michael Burgess

WAS prospect - I had to get him in here given how much I wanted the Giants to take him with their 3rd 1st RD pick (Fairley), or one of their supp picks (Noonan and Jackson Williams, the latter of which is the worst draft pick ever). At the time I was fine with Fairley, since he was a similarly talented player to Burgess and even Noonan didn't kill me despite my preference for Burgess, but Jackson pushed me over the edge.  Burgess is hardly a sure thing as one look at his numbers can tell you, but I still really like this kid. 

His swing reminds me of a hybrid of Jeromy Burnitz and Lance Berkman. In terms of length and stance, it's Burnitz, but in terms to hand movement and path to the ball, it's Berkman. Now, Berkman also has a more compact swing, which is why he's Lance Berkman, but Burgess share that same berkman swing trait where his bat is parrellel to the plate in a direct route to the ball. I don't think Burgess will ever be anywhere near the hitter Berkman is, his swing is just too long and he's not as powerful, but at the same time it does show promise.

In hist first at-bat today, Burgess worked his way into a favorable hitters count and lined a smash right at the 1B for an out. In his 2nd at-bat he worked a walk showing a good sense for the strike zone. In his 3rd and final at-bat, he he lined an outside fastball into left field. All 3-at bats were very good and he showed the ability to go to all fields. he also made a base running mistake on the single (he was thrown out trying to stretch it into a double) but the guy is a tremendous athlete that to me shows a lot of promise to be a good big leaguer. He's got an excellent combination of plate discipline, power, and just enough athleticism that can make him both a plus defender and bat.

The key for him is clearly going to be cutting his strikeouts down by shortening his swing. If this kid shorten up a bit and get his K% to under 20, he's going to be a good big leaguer, it's really that simple. Is that going to happen? I can't say for sure, but given that he is very young for high A ball (20.7) I'd say it's fair to say that is one aspect of his game that could easily improve (and he's also going to add to his already good power).  I'd say at least, he can be a more athletic Jeromy Burnitz in the bigs, or a more patient Carl Everett, but depending on how much he can shorten his swing and cut out some holes, he could be just that much more.

Luis Lebron

Clearly had the most electric arm of the night, but also didn't know where it was going half the time. Pretty much a stereotypical fireballer

That's pretty much the observations I had, anyone else there care to share some?

Boston is about to have a crowded situation in their middle infield as Lowrie is coming back to the big club from the DL and it would seem likely that they would like to move Julio Lugo.

Now, with his hefty salary (pro-rated 8 million dollars left) and his recent string of poor years it seems unlikely there would be many takers. Enter the Giants.

We have a glaring hole at 2B, some money to spend, and a desire to not pay much in prospects. I'd bet if we agreed to pay, say, 1.5-2 million of Lugo's pro-rated salary the Red Sox would probably hand him over to us for a fringy pitching  prospect, say Justin Fitzgerald.

Lugo is having a fairly decent year at .295/.364/.381 on a BABIP that isn't absurdly high. Last year he also managed to post a .358 OBP. If he can maintain a .350+ OBPthat'd be very nice for this club considering we only have two players currently doing that, one of which because he is hitting .333

Lugo's defensive numbers are a bit erratic, but I think it'd be safe to say Lugo rates a few (not a lot) runs below average defensively at short, but we'd be talking about moving him to 2B, where he would at least rate average, and I feel probably a tick above average.

The guy has always had a good deal of talent, and while he is past his prime and can no longer run like he used to (and has lost a lot of power), there is still a useful player there, one I think can help us out if we had him.  I think playing everyday, Lugo could be worth at least 1 win above replacement level, which considering that our production is well below that level, would be quite a boost for this club.   I'm all for givign Frandsen a chance personally, but Sabes doesnt seem to feel that way, and I don't think Frandsen is capable of a .350+ OBP in the majors, unlike Lugo.

Update: Didn't realize his contract ran through 2010, I'd obviously only want him at the price of 1.5- 2 million per year. Could even prove more useful than Renteria at SS if Frandsen emerged as a 2B option

I've been going over some scenario's in my head about bats the Giants might acquire and I keep landing on one scenario I find somewhat likely given the Giants needs, Sabean's tendencies, and our desire to (correctly) hold onto our top tier of prospects.  The two names that keep coming to mind are a package, a package of two of the more hated players by Giants fans:

Scott Hairston and David Eckstein

Reasons why I think it makes sense:

1) They the Giants, Sabes loves to acquire Giant killers (see Steve Finley, Mark Portugal, Neifi Perez, Orel Herchiser, etc.). I was half surprised Sabes didn't make a run at Khalil Greene earlier.

2) Hairston can play CF & LF and kills LHP (.375/.451/694). Allowing for more flexibility with our lefty dominant OF options.

3) Won't be free, but clearly wouldn't require any of our top tier prospects

4) Hairston is hitting .314/.371/.559 with a .406 wOBA in the ultimate pitchers park. I don't know what that means to Sabean (especially since he's likely to regress, especially with this BABIP well above his career norms)

5) "Gamerness". Eckstein's gamerness rivals that of Aaron Rowand. Plus Eckstein is a "proven winner" and WS MVP. Veteran leadership, situational hitter (.375 BA w/ RISP), does the little things, yada yada yada

I'm not saying I'm advocating it, but it seems inevitable to me that Sabean will be in on both of these guys. The price? I'm not exactly sure, but my guess would be Fred Lewis and Scott Barnes (maybe even Pucetas), or something comparable. 

I guess my question is, if we acquired two hated players like these, how would you guys feel about them? Obviously they'd win you over with success, but I just wanted to see, since I see this as a potentially likely scenario

Perhaps I just haven't been following too closely, but I have yet to see Grant pat himself on the back too hard for Ben Zobrist. That was Grant's number 1 man crush according to my memory and look at what he's done for Tampa since he's been up last year with regular PT

326 at-bats

21 homers

.273/.369/.561

He also just hit a grand slam today, so the numbers are now slightly better.

Oh yeah, and he can play middle infield, where we've pretty much been the ugliest looking offensive team there in that time frame.

So if your back is not already worn out from patting it yourself, here's one from me Grant. You identified a perfect target for the Giants who in 330 at-bats with Tampa has already been more productive than any hitter the Giants have had since Barry Bonds

If Pedro Feliz were on this team he would be 3rd on this team in walks and BB% amongst our regulars. 

Sad.

In truth, that speaks more to the adjustments Feliz has made this year (or more likely just flucuation that will not last throughout 160 games) than any further beriding of this offense (although it is in fact, as terrible as advertised. Probably the worst in the bigs).

If you told me that one day Feliz would have a .373 OBP, I'd have said Feliz must be hitting .340. Do you guys think Feliz is actually changing his approach, or do you believe you cannot teach an old dog new tricks? Now, I reaaaaally don't think it has anything to do with organizational philosophy (since I figure most big leaguers just do thing their way regardless) but it's an idea I'm sure some have floated around.

As for our offense, well, what really scares me is that when you look at our offense (tied for last in wOBA & 2nd to last in OPS is that we've done this with our players performing about as good as you could expect (possible exception of Renteria). Molina's avg is lower than most expected I'm sure, but he's also had a much higher HR rate than anyone could expect to help offset it. Plus, with a catcher of his age and skillset, it's a ticking time bomb waiting to expolode.

Fred Lewis, Randy Winn, Aaron Rowand are all producing about as well as you could expect. (Lewis is doing so with a .375 BABIP, so that's a tad scary). I'm sure Winn will be a tad more productive, but it's likely that Lewis and Rowand will regress a bit here on out.

Pablo - hard to tell what his ceiling is I guess, but he's exceeding most people's expectations I'm sure. What worries me with him is that guys as extremely hacktastic as him have started out well and generally crash as the league catches on (Francouer comes to mind, Feliz as well). That doesn't mean it will happen, but there is some cause for concern.

Ishikawa - really what could anyone expect here? He's done about as well as I think you could reasonably expect offensively.

Burris - he's been about as good as I think you could expect, but maybe I was just never that high on him.

I guess what I'm saying is, the players in this offense have more or less done about as well as you could reasonably expect and yet we have the worst offense in the league (and the majors as far as I'm concerned). My question is what did the Front Office really expect? I know this is a tam built around pitching, but surely no one shoots to be the worst offense in the league. Guys under perform collectively (i.e. San Diego last year w/ Bard, Greene, Iguchi) to have to do that. When your players do about as well as you could expect with little room for improvement (at least in the sense that those guys that could improve slightly are evened out by those due to regress slightly) what was the plan?

The logic? Did they just have unrealistic expectations for Sandoval, Burris, and Ishikawa? Did they think Rowand was going to bounce back to his career 2007 year?

I don't see how you could expect any better than this and in truth, I expected a tad worse. It's a good thing our guys can pitch

This isn't a rag on Burris post or anything, it's a serious question, can you name a major league player that has ever had LESS power than Manny Burris?

Burris career minor league isoP: .052

Burris career MLB isoP: .038

Some ideas that came to mind

Willie Bloomquist

Minors: .094

Majors: .063

Juan Pierre

Majors: .071

Minors: .062

Duane Kuiper

Majors: .045

Minors: .064

Joey Gathright

Majors: .041

Minors: .051

Gathright is about as close as it gets, and that should be a reason for concern. Gathright pretty much has all the tools of Burris, speed, contact, walk rates, etc.  In fact, Gathright has a far more impressive resume to Burris through age 24 (.315/.398/.364 minor league line with tons of steals)

Yet if you look at Gathright now, he just hasn't had much of a big league career sitting at .262/.327/.303

I certainly hope Burris can exceed that (and wouldn't you know it, those numbers are comparable to his current season). Just another reason to possibly taper optimism (if you have it) on Manny Burris.