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Robert Livingston

Mar 29, 2010 Aug 22, 2011 14 552

I live in China and have been helping support the MMA scene here for the past four years. I help out at Art of War FC events.

I train BJJ and MMA with UFC fighter Zhang Tie Quan and Li Jing Liang at China Top Team under ex-Brazilian Top Team's Ruy Menezes. I also have a blue belt under the head of Art of War FC and Beijing Jiu-Jitsu, Andy Pi.

MMA is a passion of mine and, in my opinion, has huge potential in Asia where martial arts is embedded in the cultures here.

Ask me anything about MMA in China. I would be glad to answer.

a fan of

Jonny Hendricks, Martin Kampmann, Cain Velasquez, Gray Maynard, Dominick Cruz, Brad Pickett, Shogun Rua, Jon Fitch, Nick Diaz, Nate Diaz, Frankie Edgar Mixed Martial Artist(s)

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Bloody Elbow Interview with the Godfather of MMA China, Andy Pi

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via www.bjjchina.com


When Andy Pi came to China in 1997 he was just a blue belt under Rorion and Royce Gracie looking to continue his training. But after months of unsuccessfully searching for training partners he realized that if he wanted to study BJJ in China, he would have to bring it here himself. 13 years later and his Beijing Jiu-Jitsu Academy is still running strong. But Pi's biggest contribution to China is undoubtedly the Art of War FC MMA promotion, China's first and most prolific. After 15 shows and one Chinese fighter signed with Zuffa, Pi has solidified his status as the Godfather of Chinese MMA  

 

You are China’s first ever MMA promoter. What was it like being the first MMA entrepreneur setting up business in China? What obstacles did you encounter?

Being the first person to do something is always a mixed blessing. You’re the first to reap the rewards, but you’re also the first to walk through the fire. There were a lot of obstacles, political and cultural. The biggest problem was just educating the fans about what Mixed Martial Arts was.

 

So how did you pitch it to them?

Well, we basically marketed it as what it is: the fastest growing sport in the world. We put an emphasis on educating them by telling them that all martial arts can be divided into two categories: those that focus on stand-up fighting—like boxing and karate—and those that focus on ground-fighting or grappling, like wrestling, Judo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Mixed Martial Arts combines both categories, therefore it’s the most realistic form of combat out there. And the best bang for your buck.  

 

Officially you brought MMA to China in 2005 when you held the first Art of War FC event at Beijing Sports University Boxing Gymnasium. Since then you’ve held 15 Art of War events, with the last taking place in Macau’s Venetian Hotel. What’s the key to your success?

We understand our target audience: they’re internet savvy, predominantly male, and between 18 and 35. These guys use the internet to communicate. Art of War FC now has both Facebook and Kaixin pages. I think it’s very important for entrepreneurs to realize that when you come to China, you’re entering the world’s largest online community.   

 

Besides bringing it to China, how else are you helping MMA develop?

What we’re doing here is essentially building an industry, a sport from ground zero. Hopefully, our event will inspire MMA enthusiasts in China to go out and create kind of what the US has right now: a saturation of MMA clothing companies and schools, as well as other promotions. This results in what’s most important: the well-being of the fighters.

 

Are you telling me that a man who promotes violence can be a philanthropist as well?

I wouldn’t say I promote violence. We want all Chinese martial artists to be able to feed themselves off MMA. We want them to be respected through MMA. We want to provide them with a way to make a living doing what they love. To us, it’s fighters first.

 

How do professional Chinese martial artists support themselves anyway?

They’re either government sponsored, meaning the government pays their housing and salary—these are the athletes who compete in the China National Games—or, like most of our fighters, they’ve left that system to really test themselves.

 

Really test themselves?

There’s a distinction to be made here between martial artists and fighters. Every martial artist comes to a point in his life when he asks himself, can I be the best fighter in the world. Because MMA is closer to an actual fight than any other sport, fighters turn to MMA to answer that question. 

 

Chinese people seem to think that martial arts means taking on 20 guys at once. How do you break that misconception?

A lot of people have that misconception, not just Chinese people. Those people need to watch an MMA fight. MMA has a real strange way of breaking people’s misconceptions about what real fighting looks like.

 

China is widely considered the birthplace of martial arts, yet Chinese people are notoriously squeamish to anything other than Kung Fu demonstrations. What makes you think they’d be interested in a sport as real as MMA?

The most famous Chinese people in the world are Jackie Chan and Bruce Lee. The highest grossing Chinese films to come out in recent years have all been martial arts films. It’s an essential part of Chinese culture.

 

Did you move to China to bring MMA to the Chinese, or did you come up with the plan while here?

Actually, I came here on vacation, but it didn’t take long for me to see the potential in China.

 

Chinese MMA star Wu Hao Tian vs. UFC Lightweight champion Frankie Edgar, who takes it?

Tomorrow? Frankie Edgar. Chinese MMA fighters have only been training MMA for the past four years or so. Frankie Edgar has about ten years worth of experience on Wu Hao Tian. Plus, he’s one of the best fighters out there.

 

You vs. UFC President Dana White?

(laughs) Depends on his ground game.

 

How steep is the learning curve for Chinese MMA fighters?

I don’t think it’s steep at all. Look at what China did at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. The wrestling and boxing teams performed spectacularly. A lot of those guys had only been training four or five years.

 

What is it like managing and training Chinese fighters?

It’s a little different from training fighters in the West. Most Chinese fighters are former government athletes. Here, you have to provide more than just a salary; you have to provide almost complete support.

 

Where do you see MMA China in ten years time?

It’s going to be the unofficial official sport of China. Chinese fighters are going to be fighting and beating the best fighters in the world, and becoming national heroes in the process. Mark my words.

 

In just 15 years MMA in America has supplanted boxing, a sport with a near 200 year history, as the country’s number one combat sport. Are you trying to supplant San Da, Chinese kickboxing, in China?

We’re not trying to supplant anything. Not everybody can be a member of government San Da clubs. What we’re providing is a sport that anyone can participate in.

 

How well do you think Chinese martial arts translate to MMA?

Some translate almost perfectly, others, not at all.

 

I‘ll go through a list, and you tell me which ones do and why.

Sounds fun.

 

San Da.

San Da incorporates punching, kicking and wrestling, so naturally it’s highly effective in MMA.

 

Shuai Jiao, Mongolian wrestling.

Too one-dimensional and uses a gi. There’s no gis in MMA.

 

Wu Shu and Kung Fu.

Look, it’s not about styles; it’s about how you train. Traditional Wu Shu practitioners spend their time in front of a mirror, making sure their techniques look good. They want to jump high and do back flips. There’s just not enough actual contact in Wu Shu for it to be effective in MMA. I’m sure if I put Wu Hao Tian in a traditional Wu Shu performance event, he’d perform miserably. MMA fighters don’t train to look good, they train to fight.

 

Which Chinese fighters should fight fans look out for?

All of them. But namely, Dai Shuang Hai, Wu Hao Tian, Ji Xian, and even though he’s not Chinese, Vaughn Anderson.

 

What’s next for MMA China?

Besides Art of War 16, we’re going to be filming a reality TV show, kind of like The Ultimate Fighter series in the US. Chinese MMA fighters will live together, train together, and fight in a tournament format, with one or two shows airing every episode, to determine who China’s best MMA fighter is.

 

Art of War vet Zhang Tie Quan is scheduled to become the first Chinese fighter to fight under the Zuffa banner on September 30th at WEC 51. What are your thoughts on that?

I hope to hell he wins. It would be huge for Chinese MMA.  

For more info on Andy Pi and Art of War FC visit mmachina.com. Or if you're in the neighborhood, feel free to stop by the Beijing Jiu-Jitsu Academy. Schedule and location can be found at bjjchina.com.

20 comments  |  9 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Not So Fast - UFC China Office Yet to Open

This Fanpost was Promoted to the Front Page by Anton Tabuena

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According to UFC China rep, Aaron Randolph of Rxtreme Sports, the UFC's plans to open an office in China have yet to come to fruition and, as originally reported, are still scheduled for the end of the year:

"The UFC is dead serious about coming here. It's just a matter of time. In the past half-year alone we've taken some huge steps, setting up ufc.cn and the deal with sohu.com to air events live and free. Next step, the office. It'll open by years-end."

As to the office's location and who would front it, Randolph had this to offer:

"It could open anywhere, but Shanghai and Beijing seem like the most likely candidates. China's MMA scene is definitely centered around Beijing, though."

As a member of the MMA community here in China, I can say for sure that the China office has yet to open. Randolph and his company, Rxtreme, have been the consulting company for the UFC in China for the past three years and helped put together both the sohu deal and ufc.cn. If anyone in-country would know, it would be him. Personally, I like the pace the UFC is taking in entering China and can't wait for them to officially set up shop.  

17 comments  |  1 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Exclusive Interview with Chinese MMA Champ, Zhang Tie Quan

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via www.urccmma.com


Zhang Tie Quan has already accomplished a lot of firsts in his young career: he won the first fight on Art of War's first show, and he's China's first BJJ purple belt and MMA Champ. But one distinction would trump them all: the first Chinese fighter in the UFC. With the UFC planning to open a China office by years-end and the recent launch of ufc.cn, it's no secret the world's most populated country is hot on Zuffa's radar. I recently sat down with Zhang to discuss his thoughts on the UFC, his martial arts background, San Da, BJJ and even Jackie Chan. Here's what he had to say:

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49 comments  |  32 recs | 

Bloody Elbow The Month in Chinese MMA: June 2010

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via www.urccmma.com

In 2005 Beijing Jiu-Jitsu's Andy and Konrad Pi put together the first installment of China's biggest MMA promotion, Art of War Fighting Champsionship, at Beijing Sports University. Fast forward five years and one of that fateful night's combatants has taken a great leap forward in entering the world's biggest MMA promotion, thanks to a 53-second submission victory at Hong Kong's Legend FC 2 on June 24.

URCC MW Champ, Inner Mongolian San Da champion, BJJ purple belt, 10-0 Chinese prodigy, and all-around just scary dude, Zhang Tiequan (pronounced Johng Te Chew En), submitted New Zealand WW Champ Daniel Digby via guillotine choke in another display of Chinese dominance in Asian MMA. With Zuffa having made their intentions of entering the Chinese market clear, the scene is set for a Chinese fighter to enter the Octagon, and Zhang seems to be the man to do it. But before that, he will have the chance to fight for another championship belt at Legend FC 3 in September against a yet-to-be-named opponent.

Also at Legends FC 2, Zhang's China Top Team training partner, 23-year-old phenom, and provincial (Xin Jiang) San Da and Freestyle Wrestling champion, Li Jingliang (Jeeng Lee Ong), earned Fight of the Night honors for his hard-fought three-round MW battle with New Zealand's Pat Crawley. Having come up on the wrong end of a unanimous decision, Li has stated that his bout with Crawley would be the last time we'd see him fighting above his weight class.

However, top student of undefeated Chinese MMA star, Ao Hai Lin (Ow Hi Lean), Zhang Li Peng, did not fair as well as the BJJ-focused China Top Team competitors, as he and San Da fighter Wang Zhen both lost via 1st RD submission. China Top Team coach, Brazilian Top Team's Ruy Menezes, hopes to welcome Li Peng and other Chinese MMA fighters to train BJJ in the near future.

As if the need for BJJ wasn't clear enough in Chinese MMA, China Top Team itself held its first ever MMA show in Beijing's scenic Babaoshan district on June 12, with all CTT members leaving the rings with their hands raised. CTT fighters were up against steep competition as San Da, Shuai Jiao, and Freestyle Wrestling academies all sent representatives to the event. Headlined by Art of War veteran, Wang Sai (Wong Sigh), CTT's inaugural event was another successful attempt at showing the importance of BJJ in MMA to Chinese fighters.

Up next for Chinese MMA in July is the biggest clash of inter-Asian MMA talent to date, as China's Wang Guan (4-0-1) and the Philippines' top MMA prospect, Eduard "Landslide" Folayang (7-1), meet in a LW championship fight at Singapore's Martial Combat 5. The bout is of particular interest in that both Wang and Folayang come from Chinese Wushu and San Da backgrounds and are well-versed on the ground. Wang will be making his return to MMA after an almost 3-year layoff, during which he represented China in Muay Thai matches, while Folayang has won two bouts in 2010 in the 1st RD. For more on the Shaanxi San Da Champion visit http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_%E7%8E%8B%E5%86%A0.

 

(Footage of Chinese fighters mentioned can be found by copying and pasting Chinese characters into the search engine at youku.com: Zhang Tie Quan (张铁拳); Ao Hai Lin (敖海林); Wang Sai (王赛); Wang Guan (王冠); or Art of War (英雄榜) You can also visit the Art of War's offical website's (mmachina.com) Video Section: http://www.artofwarfc.cn/?q=taxonomy/term/2)

19 comments  |  6 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Three Reasons MMA Will Succeed in China

Hey everybody!

My name is Robert LL and I have lived in China for four years now. I am a blue belt under the head of Art of War FC, Andy Pi, and have worked several Art of War events. Currently I train as a blue belt under Ruy Menezes at China Top Team alongside Chinese fighters URCC MW Champ Zhang Tie Quan and Li Jing Liang. I speak Chinese and have been watching MMA since UFC I.

But enough about me.

Jonathan Snowden's article did a good job of summarizing the history of Chinese MMA, the Chinese market and business in China. But nonetheless it did seem negative. Yes, entering China is harder than it looks and a good product and expertise alone won't cut it; however, Zuffa's proposed two-year plan of gradually promoting MMA in China suggests they are aware of this.

Snowden is right: by not appealing to Chinese nationalism or putting Chinese fighters on its cards, the UFC would be stacking the odds against itself. But for every reason the fastest-growing sport in the world wouldn't succeed in the world's fastest-growing economy there is a reason why it would. Namely: the Sheikh, Chinese nationalism and San Da.

The Sheikh and UAE

Snowden's first question of "Why would the same strategies [that Sheik ban Zayed employed] work better with a promotion that is even more foreign than Art of War, which at least was fronted by two Chinese Americans?" seems to miss the big picture Lorenzo Fertitta alluded to.

Answer: Zuffa is a better business partner: Zuffa is more seasoned, offers more resources and is a more organized and established entity than Art of War: The Sheikh is involved in the funding of MMA; branding is left to his partners. In Art of War we saw the Sheikh act as the main financial backer of an MMA promotion; in the UFC he holds 10% of the company.

That is why the Sheikh partnered with Zuffa. But why did Zuffa partner with the Sheikh?

The UAE and China have long been business and political partners and according to the Abu Dhabi-China Economic Forum held earlier this week, their relationship is expected to strengthen. In Sheik bin Zayed, Zuffa has a powerful political ally to help navigate the foreign waters of China's business and political environments. They are much better off entering China with the UAE than without it. That is unquestionable.

Chinese Nationalism

So, now the UFC has the help they need to clear the political hurdles of setting up shop in China. But ultimately success in China will depend on Zuffa's, not the Sheikh's, expertise: branding. 

And how do you brand MMA in China: nationalism.

Snowden summarized it well: Chinese nationalism heavily influences Chinese culture. Martial arts in China is a thickly bureaucratic business and an essential part of Chinese culture. To succeed, the UFC would have to promote Chinese Martial Arts in some way. Marketing MMA as a new fighting form and then having that fighting form defeat Chinese fighting forms is nothing short of insulting in the eyes of Chinese officials and, quite frankly, would never happen.  

Case in point: Sometimes San Da fighters take part in MMA matches against heavily outmatched foreign MMA opponents. This is done to reinforce national opinion of Chinese Martial Arts' superiority.

Zuffa will have to avoid marketing MMA as a foreign entity. In the end, like any big company that enters China, Zuffa has to convince the Chinese government that MMA somehow contributes to the Chinese greater good.  I suggest integrating MMA with CMA whenever possible as a way to promote Chinese Martial Arts and China to the world, thereby meeting the Party objective of enhancing China's global reputation.

If this is accomplished, just think of the possibilities: extremely nationalistic Chinese would flock to see the possibility of Chinese fighters defeating foreign combatants, especially American and Japanese.

San Da

The possibility of victorious Chinese fighters unleashing the nationalistic pride of their countrymen to sell out national sports stadiums is made all the more probable by Chinese fighters' background sport of choice: San Da.

The only competitive form of Wu Shu (general Chinese term meaning 'martial arts') is as close to MMA as any combat sport gets. It starts standing, is heavy on no-gi upper-body throws and clinchwork, and even allows for leg-takedowns. All that's missing is submissions.  

Andy Pi and Art of War boldly trained San Da fighters in BJJ and proved what MMA fans have known for years: the ground game is necessary. Some of the biggest names in San Da came through the doors of Pi's Beijing Jiu-Jitsu Academy and none of them lost a single fight in AOW because of it. Yet those same big names opted to put their MMA careers on hold and pursue San Da instead, because China's first choice in combat martial arts is more respected and hence more lucrative.

If Zuffa could make those fighters some real money--which in the state-sponsored-fighter world of San Da is pretty rare--you could have some serious reputations putting themselves on the line against foreign competitors. And thus the masses are appealed to. All 1.3 billion of them.

74 comments  |  14 recs | 

Bloody Elbow China's First Ever MMA Champ

Profile_-_zhang_tiequan_230_mediumURCC Middleweight Champion and first ever Chinese MMA Champ Zhang Tie Quan looks to keep his perfect 9-0 record in tact when he travels south from his Beijing training grounds at BJJ black belt Ruy Meneves' China Top Team to the newly christened MMA grounds of Hong Kong to face New Zealand Welterweight Champion Daniel Digsby (4-2) in a 77kg bout scheduled for Legends Fighting Championship 2 on June 24th inside Kowloon Bay's Star Hall.

An Inner Mongolian San Da Champion, Zhang can also add the honor of being the first Chinese fighter to ever receive a purple belt in jiu-jitsu to his list of accomplishments.  Widely considered the uncrowned 75kg Champ of China's premier MMA promotion, The Art of War Fighting Championship, Zhang could become the first ever Chinese fighter signed by Zuffa, as rumors of Joe Silva attending the event continue to circulate.

19 comments  |  3 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Forgetting Where You Came From: Dan Henderson's Wrestling

Dan Henderson used an amateurish gameplan today to lose his shot at the Strikeforce middleweight title. Leading into the fight, it seemed the former PRIDE champion had everything in his favor, except, that is, for his opponent's greatest strength: jiu-jitsu. So why then did Henderson inexplicably participate in a submission wrestling match?

He's gameplanned well in the past. In his fight with Rousimar Palhares, he used one of MMA's most reliable strategies: neutralize a BJJ black belt by keeping the fight standing, and when it goes to the ground, maintain top control. But, unlike Palhares, Jake Shields is a BJJ black belt with formidable wrestling. But no problem, right?  Henderson is the better wreslter, right?

While that might be true, other than a sprawl, viewers were treated to none of Henderson's Olympic-caliber wrestling. In fact, not only did Henderson not score a single takedown after the striking advantage he used to drop his opponent in the first round was neutralized by the first of many Shields single-leg takedowns, he didn't even attempt one.

At the end of the day, it seemed as if a ten-year veteran of the sport had forgotten what got him there.

Let's hope he remembers it the next time his right hand fails him.

22 comments  | 

Bloody Elbow Two Legends Cut Down to Size in Abu Dhabi: An Intangible Victory

MMA's hype machine puts too much pressure on fighters and benumbs fans. Men become unstoppable monsters; managers and promotions, ruthless villians. Do people actually believe there is an historic event every 2-3 weeks?   

The latest victims of exaggeration: Anderson Silva and BJ Penn. This past weekend two fighters once called invincible looked human. One even looked too human.

Hype, truth, or a combination of both, the fabled aura of invincibility goes a long way in punching someone in the face. Penn's and Silva's have both faded to an extent--contenders Sonnen, Maynard, and Belfort are now more outspoken--but Penn's seems less damaged; ask Zuffa who is harder to repackage.

The good part is, the hype is over, and they can get back to normal; something they weren't this weekend.  

12 comments  |