SB Nation User Blog: Seth

Does Turkoglu's Switcharoo Change Things?

Seth — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 11:41:31 -0000

Hedo Turkoglu looked good and ready to sign with the Trail Blazers, leaving little room for Portland to scoop up David Lee. Now that he's pulled a Turkish Two-Step and made a beeline for Toronto, things may change. Here's Marc Berman in another brilliantly-headlined piece:

The Blazers have long lusted after Lee, who also seeks $10 million per season, exactly the amount the Blazers are under the cap. Bartlestein said because Lee is restricted, the Blazers were fearful of waiting 10 days to see if the Knicks would match and instead jumped at the surer thing in Turkoglu.

With Memphis and Detroit making other moves and Portland involved with Turkoglu, the Knicks' chances of re-signing Lee for $7 to $8 million had seemed to increase.

Bartlestein claims he's talked to nearly 15 over-the-cap teams who have proposed sign-and-trade deals with the Knicks for Lee. But because he is a base-year compensation player, it is difficult to make the math work under the CBA.

Turkoglu leaving Orlando also affects their other free agent, Nate Robinson. As the Knicks await word on Jason Kidd's decision, they are anxious to see if Robinson will sign an offer sheet on July 8 with another club. The Knicks would have 10 days to match -- and that obviously would depend if they sign Grant Hill or Kidd.

According to a person familiar with the situation, two of Robinson's five most serious inquiries have come from the NBA Finalists -- the Lakers and Magic. If Turkoglu winds up in Toronto, Orlando might get serious with Robinson.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Blazers quickly turn their focus to Lee, who doesn't seem to have been getting as many homerun offers as expected. As some consolation, it was reported yesterday that Toronto was in the running for Lee, so I guess we can scratch off one suitor while re-introducing another. As for Nate, it seems like the Knicks and other teams are in a bit of a game of chicken. With most of the free agent point guards still up for grabs, nobody's willing to throw a number Nate's way just yet. Next week, we'll see if that changes.

All of this sorta makes you miss the days when NY was fiscally irresponsible and had no money to spend in free agency, doesn't it? We didn't have to worry about these things. Just kidding. I don't think anybody misses that.

Maybe a little?

Free Agent Update

Seth — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:40:16 -0000

It's been an eventful two days, but nothing has actually come to fruition in New York. Something eventually will, though. Here's what they're saying about some of the important names:

David Lee

As was mentioned in the Fanposts, the hilarious Zach Randolph-for-Quentin Richardson deal likely takes the Grizzlies out of the running for Lee (if not shaking the earth to its core). With Detroit committed to Gordon and Villanueva and Portland closing in on Turkoglu, Walsh's odds of retaining Lee at yearly single digits are improving. Toronto is reported to be readying an offer for Lee, and OKC is supposed to come knocking as well. That Mark Bartlestein chap is sounding desperate, though, and I have a good feeling about this one.

Jason Kidd

I spare no good feelings for this one. While the Mavs are offering a robust 3 years, $25 million, the Knicks are promising Kidd $18 million for the same duration of time. Our hopes of "well maybe it'll just be one year" are behind us. I've got a longer post about this in me, but this absolutely inexplicable. I'm going to very, very sad if the Knicks sign Jason Kidd.

Caveat: If Walsh manages to shed the contracts of Curry and/or Jeffries in the process, that'll make a Kidd signing hurt a little less. Just a little.

Nate Robinson

Alan Hahn's been updating his Twitter shotgun-style as I write this, and his word on Nate is the following:

Knicks will also wait patiently, see what kind of offers Lee gets and then react accordingly. Same goes for Nate Robinson, tho I think the chase for Kidd and drafting Toney Douglas makes N8theGr8 a valuable trade asset.

Morris Almond

In an article with the most predictable NY Post headline I've ever seen, Marc Berman claims that summer league sign-up Morris Almond needs only to hold his own in Vegas to make the team. This is excellent news. Investing small amounts stock in promising, young enterprises is how you succeed in the long-term.

Tracy McGrady and Steve Nash

Neither of these guys are really free agents (McGrady's got one year left on his lucrative deal and Nash is waiting on a team option), but both have been tied to the Knicks. Nash would likely come via trade, which isn't wonderful. Just like Kidd, Nash is an aged point guard with only a few more years to give. If the Knicks could land him for a couple expiring contracts though, I'd be in favor of Nash over Kidd every single day of the week.

Meanwhile, I bring up McGrady because of this bit in Hahn's recent bout of Twitterrhea:

And finally, as I said last night..HOU/T-Mac situation is smoldering. Source tells me it may not take ECurry, perhaps cheaper than that......but it is believed HOU may hit pause a moment after Artest is gone and Yao is out. Need someone. TAriza isn't a go-to option.

What do you mean "it may not take ECurry"? Shouldn't Walsh stay away from this deal unless the Rockets are willing to take Curry in return?

Grant Hill

Again, why??

(Sigh.) I didn't expect to be worried about this stuff. I really thought retaining Lee was going to be my biggest concern. Turns out the imminent possibility of Donnie Walsh reuniting the 2001 All-Star team is what's losing me sleep. Seriously, click that link. They're all there. If you start hearing Glenn Robinson-to-NY rumors, just don't tell me.

Background Check: Perspectives on Hill and Douglas

Seth — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:09:32 -0000

I think it's in our best interest to take a breather from the impending doom of the Jason Kidd scenario and take stock of the solid, YOUNG talent the Knicks already have. After the draft, I got in touch with representatives from two of SBN's finest blogs: Florida State's Tomahawk Nation and Arizona's AZ Desert Swarm. I sent each a few questions to give us at P&T a better sense of what to expect from Donnie Walsh's draft selections.

Check 'em out after the jump...

Leading off, here are TrueCubbie of Tomahawk Nation's thoughts on the Knicks' 29th pick, guard Toney Douglas:

P&T: The big question for Knick fans is whether or not Douglas can play the point. I've heard he's a smart guy, but does he have the leadership skills and passing ability to play the 1 at an NBA level?

TN: Toney has been cast as a hybrid guard and many argue that his role in the NBA is unclear: he shoots like a two but he's built like a one. One of the easiest comparissons to make is that of Ben Gordon. Let me make this clear, Toney Douglas is NOT Ben Gordon. It's true that Toney is able to create his own shot and has the ability to put up a ton of points, but it was really a product of the Florida State offensive system, which was a less than ideal Motion Offense with a group of very talented but young players. If Toney didn't score, the Seminoles didn't win. Due to the fact that our offense was not dependent on Toney distributing the ball, his passing stats do not jump off the page. Unfortunately, our team, too often, stood around and hoped that Toney would "do something." Fortunately, he could, as he led our team to their first NCAA tournament appearance in 11 years.

In 130 career games, Toney averaged 2.6 assists per game. Despite the lack luster offense and the need for a "true point guard," Toney had his best year distributing the ball with 2.914 APG. Obviously, this doesn't compare to Ty Lawson's 6.571 per game, but keep in mind they played on two completely different offensive mided teams. Toney was our offense.

Toney averaged 2.5 turnovers per game this year. Keep in mind that as the year progressed, many teams tried to trap Toney on a regular basis as he had limited options and that he played 90.7% of his team's possible minutes this year. More playing time naturally sets you up for more turnovers. His turnover rate, which is the percentage of personall possessions used on turnovers, was 14.4, which ranked 242 in the country, but Toney was respsonible for 27% of the Florida State's poseesions, meaning the percentage of plays that a player is credited for ending a possession (making a basket, a turnover, a shot with a missed rebound...anything that results in the end of a possession, it could be good or bad).

Based on Toney's build, speed and agility, he has the basic skill set and tools to run the point in the NBA. I urge you to watch some of his game tape to see his court managment and leadership style. He is not going to be a Steve Nash or have the highlights of a Ricky Rubio, but he is a floor general. In an article I wrote for the Atlanta Hawks, I compared him to a Chauncey Billups but with slighly less passing ability.

Coach Hamilton had this to say about Toney's leadership:

"The thing that he’s done more than anything else is that he’s given us leadership," Hamilton said. "He’s taken a team with six first-year players and he’s found a way to communicate with them without being offensive, and they have followed his lead. He has a temperament about him that is non-threatening, but is persistent and he’s able to get guys to rally around him."

The night before games, the coaches go over a scouting report. Then Douglas calls together his teammates to give his own scouting report. Hamilton cited it as Douglas understanding that "the players had to communicate with each other and then in their own terms."

Yes, Toney has the leadership and passing ability to run an NBA team. However, Toney will be the first to admit that he is a "guard" and doesn't like being labeled either way, but wants to be the best player that he can be: "I call myself a guard," Douglas said. "I'm not a natural point. I'm not a natural two. I'm just a guard. I can do both. Me being versatile, I think I'm more of a threat out there on the court."

P&T: Douglas was ACC Defensive Player of the Year. Why? Do you think he's capable of guarding NBA two-guards despite his height?

TN: When Toney entered college, he was a pure scorer. Believe it or not, Toney played his freshman year at Auburn, after which he tried his hand in the Draft. Realizing he wasn't getting the attention he deserved, or wanted, he withdrew. Auburn was not happy with his actions and actually released him from his contract. At that point, Leonard Hamilton, the Florida State coach, started recruiting Toney and convinced him to transfer to Florida State.

Hamilton is all about defense. He gets his players to buy in to putting as much effort into playing defense as they do offense. The Seminoles strictly play a tight man to man defense, which will help Toney significantly in the NBA.

Toney was the ACC Defensive Player of the year in 2009 and was on the All-ACC Defensive Team for the past two years. He was also named to numerous other All-Collegiate defensve teams. During his career, Toney averaged 1.8 steals per game, with a max of 2.6 in 2008. Toney is committed to shutting down his opponents and he has an excellent understanding of basketball. The fact that he is extremely fast, the fastest player in the pre-draft combine in the 3/4 court sprint and 5th in the shuttle, helps his defenisve ability. He is able to play close man to man defense. He isn't sitting back to allow a player to get into his body; Toney likes to dictate the offensive players possession. There were a number of games that as Toney was following his man through screens, he would drop his off hand and block passing lanes, denying a ton of passes. He is committed to these subtle techniques to play defense. In many interviews he admits his passion for defense: "The main reason I think I play good defense is because in this league, there's a lot of good guards. If you don't play good defense, you get exposed real quick," Douglas said. "It's a pride thing."

Toney is also very strong, putting up some excellent numbers in the bench press at the combine. Plus, he isn't intimidated by a challenge. Night after night, he shut down some of the best guards in the country. The limit to his abilit to guard the two will be his height, but on any given night in the NBA you see the 'tweeners guarding 2's very well. I think he is going to frustarte a lot of players in the NBA.

In summary, he will be your shut down defender and will be fine.

P&T: Are there any good stories we should know about Toney, on or off the court?

TN: Toney is an outstanding person. He is a family man and he comes from a supportive family. His brother Harry is a wide receiver for the Atlanta Falcons. Toney finished his degree in business in 2008 and chose to stay on another year to play basketball. He has also been working on his Master's degree. He has never been questioned about his character or been in trouble while at FSU.

P&T: P&T users have already taken to calling Douglas "Ghostface" or "Pretty Toney". Does he have any pre-existing nicknames from his days as a Seminole?

TN: Toney was typically referred to as "TD." Not too exciting. But, at the end of each huddle, the Seminoles would break by saying "TDT": Toney Douglas Time. Talk about respect from your team.

P&T: Where would you rank Toney in terms of talent/popularity in comparison to other well-known Florida State guards like Ward, Sura, Cassell, and Wafer?

TN: I think your affection for each depends on your generation. Toney is certainly one of the best guards in Florida State history. For those of you who don't know, Bob Sura played from '91 - '95 and was Honorable Mention All-American in 94 and 95 and is the all time leading scorer in FSU history, third in steals and fifth in assists. You all know Ward better than I do for basketball. He is generally remembered at Florida State for his football career. Cassell is one of the all time favorites at FSU as he was not only an outstanding basketball player but a great person. Von Wafer may be a familiar name as he is now playing for the Houston Rockets. I would say that Douglas and Sura will likely be used in the same sentence in the future. Wafer on played for two years and Ward's legacy is football.

Next, I sent some questions to Dave Crockett of Arizona Desert Swarm (though you may know him from elsewhere) regarding the Knicks' lottery selection, big man Jordan Hill. Here's our exchange:

P&T: Jordan Hill's not quite 7-foot and on the light side, but with David Lee in the lineup (for the time being), Hill might fit better as a 5 than as a 4. Does Hill have the skills to compete against NBA centers?

AZDS: Yes and no. Think Chris Wilcox as Hill's most comparable, but without the focus problems. Hill is more 4 than 5, but lots of guys at 6'10 in shoes and 232# log some minutes at the 5. D'Antoni doesn't consider that a problem. Assuming that the Knicks hang on to Lee, he and Hill can definitely play together. Hill came to the game late, and as you'll see in summer league he's still a touch raw. Having said that, he's got a nice jump hook he can go to over either shoulder. He can run the floor like a gazelle. He has a developing 15-footer (though he's not the shooter Channing Frye was). I think what Knicks fans will come to like about Jordan--is that he's a tough kid. As I mention in the season retrospective, when he gets the ball in the paint there is no flippy, scoopy nonsense. He plays with some pop.

P&T: Hill's shot-blocking and general defensive fundamentals get mixed reviews, depending on where you look. Does he have the tools, or at least the potential, to salve the Knicks' glaring lack of post defense?

AZDS: If by "salve the Knicks' glaring lack of post defense" you mean (along with Darko) provide NY 12 fouls to give at the 5 in order to keep David Lee out of bad matchups, then yes. Yes he does. Jordan has the athletic tools to be a decent position defender. I don't think he has the timing to be a quality shotblocker, as he takes sort of a long windup on shot block attempts. Nevertheless he is active on defense and could grow into a good ball-denial, charge-taking post player, along the lines of Anderson Varajao if he is coached. Unfortunately, he has a lot of bad habits from college (as do virtually all college bigs), like not defending until after his man has established position and has the ball. I suspect he'll be well-acquainted with the foul whistle early in his career.

P&T: Are there any good stories or Wildcat secrets we should know about Hill from his days at Arizona, on or off the court?

AZDS: Not really. I haven't been on campus since 2000 but I keep fairly close tabs on the program and still have close friends in Tucson. So, at least as far as what makes the papers, he's a pretty low key, drama-free kid. Honestly, I wish I had something funny but the kid pretty much just came to school, played hard, and improved a lot.

P&T: Hill claims he's suited for the fast break and pick-and-roll, which are cornerstones of Mike D'Antoni's offense? Should we believe him?

AZDS: Yeah, you should. I know a lot of Knicks fans are disappointed at not being able to draft Stephen Curry, who I think will be a very, very good player, or work out a deal for Ricky Rubio. At the same time, Jordan Hill will almost certainly top out at "quality complimentary player." That's tough to swallow for Knicks fans, given the past several seasons of Job-like misery and the understandable feeling that after the Marbury saga, the Eddy Curry saga, and the Isiah Thomas saga, all just since the last draft, that the basketball gods kinda owed us Curry. But, what are you gonna do? Sometimes you can't hit a homerun. You just gotta stroke the ball the other way and take your single. That's what Walsh did in drafting Hill.

Hill's going to provide decent minutes at the five and four, probably in that order and perhaps even start depending on what happens with Eddy Curry. Hill's going to beat bigs down the floor. He'll provide some post offense, where there has been effectively none without Curry, espeically when teams try to go small. He can shoot out to 15 feet, if inconsistently. I think Knicks fans will learn to like him.

Many, many thanks to both college bloggers for their contributions. I think we've got plenty to look forward to from each of these players on the court, though I'm a little disappointed in the lack of dirt on their off-the-court lives. No worry, though. Let's just say I've done some digging of my own.

We knew about this:

...but this is gonna need some explaining:

If anything, today was a dry run for next summer, when it'll count. But the Knicks rolled out the...

Seth — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:32:36 -0000

If anything, today was a dry run for next summer, when it'll count. But the Knicks rolled out the Madison Square Garden red carpet for Jason Kidd, who was shown the amazing exhibit for the Garden renovation, presented a Knicks jersey with No. 5 and his name on the back and, of course, the Garden court, GardenVision with videos and his name echoing throughout the World's Most Famous.

Alan Hahn.
G2G vomit.

The Dallas point guard and his agent met Wednesday with Knicks president Donnie Walsh and coach...

Seth — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 19:39:18 -0000

The Dallas point guard and his agent met Wednesday with Knicks president Donnie Walsh and coach Mike D’Antoni at Madison Square Garden. The Knicks are interested in Kidd, but plan to be cautious in free agency because they want to save salary cap space for the summer of 2010.

Walsh told reporters that no contract offer was made to Kidd, who is exploring his options. The Mavericks also are interested in keeping Kidd, who was a member of the U.S. team that won a gold medal at the Beijing Olympics.

The Knicks also have said they’d like to retain two of their own free agents, forward David Lee and guard Nate Robinson, if the prices are right.

Yahoo

Knicks summer leage roster announced...among the names we knew (inc. Ewing Jr) is Alex Acker and...

Seth — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 18:31:11 -0000

Knicks summer leage roster announced...among the names we knew (inc. Ewing Jr) is Alex Acker and Morris Almond. Interesting.

Alan Hahn

MO' NUTS!

Lee, Robinson, and Wilcox Hit the Market

Seth — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:36:29 -0000

Free agency begins today, and Donnie Walsh has his work cut out for him. He's making offers to freebies from around the league, all while trying to retain some of his own. Here's what the beat men are saying on each of the players in question:

- The word on Chris Wilcox, via the Post:

The Knicks other free agent, Chris Wilcox, won't be re-signed.

Well, that was easy.

- The number varies depending on where you look, but it sounds as if the opening offer for David Lee was for 4 years, at about $8 million a year. Isola's calling it 4 years, $32 million. Walsh has to see what sort of interest Lee's getting from OKC or Memphis or wherever before starts adding digits to the offer.

- There isn't as much info out there about Nate Robinson, but if the rumor is true that Nate would consider accepting the Knicks' one-year qualifying offer, then he deserves a standing ovation.

- Marc Stein says otherwise, but I would think that the Darko Milicic acquisition makes Marcin Gortat a lot less interesting to Donnie Walsh. Actually, I kind of think I prefer Darko to Gortat, even ignoring finances. Maybe that's just me.

- HoopsWorld wonders if something's afoot in Jason Kidd's negotiations with Donnie Walsh:

In every negotiation you need to have a real threat of loss to get real value, and for Jason Kidd his afternoon's flirt with the New York Knicks may come down to just that, enough of a flirt to get Mark Cuban on a plane yesterday to stand at Jason's door step at 12:01am and sing sweet songs of major contract dollars. Kidd is expected to meet with the Knicks today and will likely field other offers before making a final decision. Mark Cuban has made it clear if it comes down to money he'd pay Kidd his asking price, so we'll see if Kidd's flirtations have more to do with picking a better prospect.

God, I hope so.

- And in our last bit of free agent news, Marc Berman got bored and sought out his sure thing. Via Mr. Joey, Berman hits up Stephon Marbury for a few choice quips.

That's what I've got for the moment. I'll have my eye on The Fix and TKB all week for updates on the free agent front.

Updates:

-Hahn: Knicks are serious about Kidd, Lee is in Indonesia

- Wojnarowski: Memphis ready to spend quite a bit on Lee.

Free Agency Begins...

Seth — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:57:28 -0000

NOW. Somewhere in the world, Donnie Walsh is on the phone.

Updates From Summer League, D-League

Seth — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 23:38:20 -0000

We gots a couple of news items today from the various developmental leagues to which the Knicks are tied. The first, via Alan Hahn, is news that we'll get at least one familiar face in Vegas this summer.

The Knicks have yet to finalize the roster for the NBA Summer League in Las Vegas, but one name that we did hear to be among the players expected to be there is Patrick Ewing, Jr.

The 6-6 forward was the final cut by the Knicks at the end of training camp and spent the season with Reno of the D-League. He injured his knee in March and did not finish the season. The hope is he will be ready to play in time for the first game, which is July 14 against Hasheem Thabeet and the Grizzlies.

Pat Jr.'s a riveting athlete and a hilarious guy, so it'll be great to have him back in Vegas, and hopefully at training camp. Word has it he beasted on kids in Reno, so look out for an improved (if slightly gimpy) Ewing. Speaking of his stint in Reno, it's come to my attention that the Bighorns are no longer the Knicks' D-League affiliate. It's mentioned in the previous article, and fleshed out in this post at the majestic Ridiculous Upside. It'll be the Springfield Armor from now on, which means some Knicks-to-be will don this logo:

RU commenters compare it to Moltar or one of the Knights Who Say "Ni". I see the Iron Giant with shades of Buckethead. Anyway, no word on whether Knick D-Leaguers will have to wear a helmet, chestplate, and S&M gloves on the court. Also, a question: Do they play with the composite ball in the D-League, or is that logo even sillier than it looks?

Jason Kidd to Meet With Knicks

Seth — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:17:03 -0000

Yikes. From the Daily News, Frank Isola delivers the story that 36 year-old Jason Kidd will sit down with Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni tomorrow to discuss the potential of Kidd latching on with the Knicks.

Kidd, who helped the Nets reach back-to-back NBA Finals before being traded to Dallas two years ago, is giving the Mavericks the first chance to re-sign him. The future Hall of Fame point guard will speak with Dallas officials before he talks to the Knicks. It is believed that Kidd also will talk to the Portland Trail Blazers.

The Knicks could sign Kidd to the mid-level exception or try to negotiate a sign-and-trade with Dallas. Since the Mavs traded Devin Harris two seasons ago for Kidd, Dallas figures to make a strong push to re-sign Kidd or at least get compensation for having mortgaged its future.

The Knicks' interest in signing Kidd is twofold. Team president Donnie Walsh is looking for an experienced floor leader as well as a player who could help recruit LeBron James should the Cavaliers' superstar and league MVP become a free agent next summer.

Kidd would be an upgrade over incumbent starting point guard Chris Duhon, but there are obvious risks attached to signing a 37-year-old player. And the Knicks also have to ask themselves why Kidd is so interested in joining a team that isn't vying for a championship. The obvious concern is that Kidd simply wants to spend his twilight years living and going out in Manhattan.

Really? Because I couldn't care less if Kidd wants to spend his late 30's macking honeys at Duvet. What bothers me is his willingness to infect what is otherwise becoming a young, likable team poised to blossom into a contender in 2010.

The fact that Kidd is on my short list of stars I'll never root for (off the top of my head: Kidd, Pierce, Carter, Mourning) is my problem. If Walsh can land the aged point for the MLE and keep him for just one season, I can see the logic. Utah holds the Knicks' draft pick next summer, so it's in New York's best interest to win some damn games and knock down those lottery odds. If that's what Donnie's got in mind, then I'll survive. I'd prefer someone like Ramon Sessions (who Isola mentions), Bobby Jackson, or Jarrett Jack, but that's a product of my own beef. Hell, I'd probably take Stephon Marbury over Kidd. At least he's funny.

What frightens me is the notion that Kidd is "a player who could help recruit LeBron James should the Cavaliers' superstar and league MVP become a free agent next summer". That implies that Kidd would be around next summer, in which case I may cry. He's a dreadfully streaky shooter, doesn't move nearly as well as he used to, and is also Jason Kidd. The same Jason Kidd who's smirkingly torched New York for years (including their last playoff visit), single-handedly made Dallas uncool, and...you know.

Long story short, I can't see why New York would grab a falling star when there are young, wholesome point guards on the market. Nor do I see the appeal for Kidd in joining a non-contender in his twilight. If this gets too serious, I may resort to starting rumors. Potential future P&T headlines:

- Kidd To Puppy: "I'm Gonna Eat You!"

- Kidd Rents "Slumdog Millionaire", Sleeps Through It

- Kidd on Darfur: "No Biggie."

- Kidd Rescues Baby Polar Bear, Makes Scarf

We need to prevent this. If you are a hitman, bounty hunter, or just a bored vagrant anywhere in the Tri-State Area, Posting and Toasting is willing to pay a healthy fee for your craft. Email me.