
Smotheredinhugs
Mar 14, 2008 Jun 01, 2012 6 1443
a fan of
Golden State Warriors
San Francisco Giants
RSSUser Blog
BBS III - The Reckoning. Taking on the Community Prospect List.
In this final edition of The Blind Baseball Scout we’ll compare P-Sabr’s 2011 rankings with Baseball America’s, discuss the rankings of all Giants hitters in 2011, and take a close look at some trends in prospecting.
Baseball America and P-Sabr agree on the Arizona League top prospect Yoan Alcantara, who received the second highest P-Sabr score (77) of 2011, though it should be noted that the Arizona League had the highest of all P-Sabr scores in 3 of the 6 years that all 5 leagues were run, suggesting that further downward weight due to league level and duration could be added to the system. 5 of the top 15 BBA hitters make up the top 6 P-Sabr ranked players (Alcantara, D’Andre Toney, Marco Hernandez, Alberth Martinez and Gioskar Amaya) though there’s no overlap in the rest of list. Historically less than 10% of all the position players in the league will make it to the majors, so either list will do well to pick 5 players. Giants who made the top 15 include league MVP and relative old man, Jose Cuevas who has an outside chance to become a poor-mans Matt Downs, whatever that means. Cuevas ranked 7th by P-Sabr standards and his teammate Kelby Tomlinson ranked 8th in the league.
In the Northwest League BBA and P-Sabr agreed on the top 2 position players being Joe Panik and Cory Spangenberg, though they diverged on their order with BBA ranking Spangenberg ahead of Panik. Of the 11 position players who were ranked by BBA, 7 of them made the top 11 of P-Sabr’s rankings (Panik, Spangenberg, Pin-Chieh Chen, Zeke DeVoss, Jesus Galindo, Donavan Tate, Rougned Odor). Joining Galindo and Panik in the P-Sabr top 10 was teammate Mike Murray, so here’s to hoping he can find a position.
No obsessed Giants fan and prospect hound was surprised to find zero Giants on BBA’s top ranked Sally League position players. P-Sabr didn’t find any either. Five players who made BBA’s top 15 position players also made P-Sabr’s list (Jurickson Profar, Christian Yelich, Brandon Jacobs, Marcell Ozuna and Jacob Realmuto). This did not include BBA’s top two prospects, Bryce Harper and Manny Machado, who did not have enough At Bats to qualify for P-Sabr, though their third ranked prospect Jurickson Profar scored the highest P-Sabr score (83) of 2011.
Once again the top of both P-Sabr and BBA are similar, with both systems agreeing that Jedd Gyorko and Gary Brown were the number one and two position players in the league. Of the 15 position players ranked by BBA, 5 also made the P-Sabr top 15, Brown, Gyorko, Nolan Arenado, Michael Choice and Tommy Joseph. P-Sabr favored high contact hitters like Henry Roriguez (#3, P-Sabr score of 44) and Vincent Catricala (#5, P-S score of 41) to player like Chris Dominguez (#78, P-S score –77) who ranked as the 13th best position player in BBA’s rankings.
The Eastern league saw 1 Giant position player make the BBA top 12 position players (Francisco Peguero), but no Giant ranked above the Median in P-Sabr. The 2 systems agreed on 2 of the top three players in the league Anthony Gose and Travis D’Arnaud. Bryce Harper, who did not qualify for P-Sabr was replaced by Sterling Marte as the top player in the league.
Since this writing coincides with the McCoven Group community prospects list, I’ll post the P-Sabr top 35 hitters. This is a league-adjusted list, there’s nothing too scientific with this adjustment, so feel free to call B.S. I don’t care. The “adjustment” is I’ve given a bonus or penalty to the players league, and then another bonus or penalty depending on their quartile ranking in their overall league. All the information is there, and you’ve read this far in the third installment of this system, so you must be a geek…you figure it out.
|
League Rank |
Player |
P-Sabr Score |
League |
Adj. Score |
|
2 |
Gary Brown |
46 |
CAL |
51 |
|
1 |
Joe Panik |
68 |
NW |
43 |
|
13 |
Tommy Joseph |
16 |
CAL |
21 |
|
7 |
Jose Cuevas |
46 |
AZL |
11 |
|
18 |
Adam Duvall |
8 |
Sally |
3 |
|
8 |
Kelby Tomlinson |
34 |
AZL |
-1 |
|
6 |
Jesus Galindo |
23 |
NW |
-2 |
|
51 |
Charlie Culberson |
-40 |
EL |
-5 |
|
51 |
Francisco Peguero |
-40 |
EL |
-5 |
|
26 |
-3 |
CAL |
-8 |
|
|
10 |
Mike Murray |
15 |
NW |
-10 |
|
58 |
-46 |
EL |
-11 |
|
|
18 |
Eric Sim |
21 |
AZL |
-16 |
|
15 |
Shawn Payne |
5 |
NW |
-20 |
|
14 |
Brett Krill |
6 |
NW |
-21 |
|
67 |
Juan Perez |
-55 |
EL |
-21 |
|
67 |
-55 |
EL |
-21 |
|
|
23 |
Ben Thomas* |
9 |
AZL |
-24 |
|
40 |
Ryan Cavan |
-22 |
CAL |
-27 |
|
20 |
Joseph Staley |
-6 |
NW |
-31 |
|
39 |
Ryan Lollis* |
-22 |
Sally |
-37 |
|
46 |
-36 |
CAL |
-41 |
|
|
91 |
-85 |
EL |
-55 |
|
|
58 |
Carlos Willoughby |
-41 |
Sally |
-56 |
|
61 |
Josh Mazzola |
-48 |
Sally |
-63 |
|
93 |
Chris Dominguez |
-93 |
EL |
-63 |
|
68 |
Luke Anders* |
-59 |
CAL |
-64 |
|
50 |
Charles Jones |
-43 |
NW |
-68 |
|
48 |
Kaohi Downing |
-41 |
NW |
-76 |
|
74 |
Rafael Rodriguez |
-62 |
Sally |
-77 |
|
72 |
Nick Liles |
-72 |
CAL |
-77 |
|
56 |
Elliott Blair |
-35 |
AZL |
-80 |
|
81 |
Chris Dominguez |
-77 |
CAL |
-87 |
|
81 |
Chris Lofton |
-69 |
Sally |
-89 |
|
89 |
Devin Harris |
-78 |
Sally |
-98 |
Obviously the presence of Jose Cuevas at number four is a big “whaaaaaaa…?”, so there’s some work that needs to be done on grading the lower levels. But, aside from that, not so bad.
TRENDS
Now let’s take a look at some of P-Sabr’s historic trends and in prospecting trends in general.
First let’s look at top prospect Gary Brown. In the last 7 (2003-2010) years there have been 7 players that have had a P-Sabr score of 46 or more. 15 of those players have gone on to play in the majors, the best (by O-WAR) being Howie Kendrick, Pablo Sandoval, Erik Aybar and Billy Butler. So, the unscientific conclusion is that he’s got a 75% shot at being a major leaguer and a 20% shot at being a really good one – OK, I’ll take it.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
Score |
Year/League |
O-WAR |
|
1 |
60 |
CAL 2003 |
1.3 |
|
|
2 |
54 |
CAL 2003 |
0.7 |
|
|
3 |
50 |
CAL 2003 |
-0.6 |
|
|
4 |
47 |
CAL 2003 |
-1.9 |
|
|
1 |
67 |
CAL 2004 |
9.2 |
|
|
2 |
47 |
CAL 2004 |
-0.2 |
|
|
1 |
Billy Butler |
61 |
CAL 2005 |
8.5 |
|
2 |
Howie Kendrick |
61 |
CAL 2005 |
12.1 |
|
3 |
50 |
CAL 2005 |
|
|
|
1 |
57 |
CAL 2006 |
-0.3 |
|
|
1 |
50 |
CAL 2007 |
-0.6 |
|
|
2 |
49 |
CAL 2007 |
|
|
|
1 |
Pablo Sandoval |
54 |
CAL 2008 |
11.6 |
|
2 |
47 |
CAL 2008 |
6.4 |
|
|
1 |
74 |
CAL 2009 |
0.4 |
|
|
2 |
70 |
CAL 2009 |
|
|
|
3 |
66 |
CAL 2009 |
|
|
|
4 |
50 |
CAL 2009 |
-0.2 |
|
|
1 |
70 |
CAL 2010 |
0.8 |
|
|
2 |
57 |
CAL 2010 |
|
Now let’s take a look at some outliers, and their value as predictive measures.
The basic theory of P-Sabr is that what is good or acceptable in the sabermetric measurement of player value at the major league level, is not necessarily a good predictor at the minor league level. P-Sabr gives a bonus to age and penalizes low contact indicators like high K-rates an low BA. Here we’ll look at the outliers in K-rates and BB rates over three leagues, the AZL, the California and Eastern.
Here are the players with the outlying best BB% in the AZL (2003-2008) who have gone on to see ML action. That’s the top five ranked each year from 100 qualifying players.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Name |
BB% |
League |
Year |
|
2 |
Antoan Richardson |
0.17460317 |
AZL |
2005 |
Of the 35 outliers over a 5 year period only Richardson has seen Major League time. Since close to 10% of AZL hitters go on to see some ML time, this seems like a very small number and suggests that it is not valuable as a predictor of future value, though it is small sample size, so let’s just say that further investigation is warranted.
How about the other side of the BB% spectrum? Here are the future ML players who fell in the bottom (worst BB%) of the outlying spectrum.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
BB% (worst) |
League |
Year |
|
3 |
0.02380952 |
AZL |
2003 |
|
|
3 |
Pablo Sandoval |
0.02617801 |
AZL |
2004 |
Not much better really, but the addition of Sandoval makes this list look a lot better in terms of value.
Now let’s look at K-Rates. Here are all the outliers of the players with the lowest K-Rates who have gone on to see ML time.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
K% |
League |
Year |
|
1 |
0.07954545 |
AZL |
2003 |
|
|
1 |
0.06134969 |
AZL |
2004 |
|
|
3 |
Pablo Sandoval |
0.0960452 |
AZL |
2004 |
|
1 |
0.07514451 |
AZL |
2005 |
|
|
1 |
Matt Downs |
0.05357143 |
AZL |
2006 |
|
3 |
0.0990099 |
AZL |
2007 |
This is much more like it! 6 players of 35 who have gone on to see ML action, in a league where less than 10% of the hitters make it to the show, that’s a nice number. It looks as if at least at this lower level, the ability to make contact is a premium predictor. SSS of course, further investigation is required.
There have been zero players who have fallen in the bottom of the K% outliers who have gone on to see ML action, implying that the P-Sabr theory that high K-Rates (along with advanced age) are the biggest negative predictors in prospecting.
In the Cal league, where close to 30% of all the P-Sabr qualified players will go on to see Major League time the lists look a little fuller. Here are the outlying best BB-rates from 2003-2008.
|
Column1 |
Column2 |
BB% |
Column4 |
Column5 |
|
1 |
0.15526802 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
|
2 |
0.15068493 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
|
2 |
0.17174515 |
CAL |
2005 |
|
|
4 |
Kila Ka'aihue |
0.16033058 |
CAL |
2005 |
|
2 |
0.17857143 |
CAL |
2007 |
|
|
1 |
Carlos Santana |
0.15898618 |
CAL |
2008 |
The 2009 and 2010 season have seen four outliers thus far who have seen ML time, including Brandon Belt.
How about the bottom side of BB%?
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
BB% (worst) |
League |
Year |
|
5 |
Pablo Sandoval |
0.03782506 |
CAL |
2007 |
|
3 |
0.02597403 |
CAL |
2008 |
|
|
4 |
0.03202847 |
CAL |
2008 |
|
|
5 |
0.03486239 |
CAL |
2008 |
I would expect as the sample grows larger to see more players on the higher end of the BB% spectrum to see ML time, but still this percentage does not imply that this outlier has great value in finding future major leaguers.
Now let’s look K-Rates.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
K% |
League |
Year |
|
1 |
0.07968127 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
|
2 |
Jeff Salazar* |
0.10509554 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
3 |
0.106 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
|
4 |
0.109375 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
|
1 |
0.07560137 |
CAL |
2005 |
|
|
3 |
0.12389381 |
CAL |
2007 |
|
|
5 |
Pablo Sandoval |
0.12967581 |
CAL |
2007 |
|
4 |
0.10309278 |
CAL |
2008 |
|
|
5 |
0.11567164 |
CAL |
2008 |
This percentage (26%) is much closer to a number that would indicate a positive predictive value, though outside of DeWitt and Sandoval, player value is thin at best. Nick Liles was 5th among outliers in 2011, while Gary Brown just missed the list at 6th.
Here’s the bottom of K-Rate outliers.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
K% (worst) |
League |
Year |
|
3 |
Mike Napoli |
0.34439834 |
CAL |
2004 |
|
3 |
Chris Carter |
0.3083004 |
CAL |
2008 |
So, it appears that high K-Rates even in high A are very difficult to overcome as one moves up through the ranks, though here Napoli clearly benefits from being a BB% outlier as well.
In the Eastern League approximately 45% of the P-Sabr qualified players will go on to see ML action, though for most it will only be a cup of coffee. Here are the BB% rate outliers.
|
Rank |
Name |
BB% |
League |
Year |
|
1 |
0.20623501 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
2 |
0.19963031 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
4 |
0.14016173 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
1 |
0.16666667 |
EL |
2004 |
|
|
3 |
0.1559322 |
EL |
2004 |
|
|
4 |
0.14466546 |
EL |
2004 |
|
|
2 |
0.14058355 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
3 |
0.13784461 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
3 |
0.13941019 |
EL |
2006 |
|
|
4 |
0.13728814 |
EL |
2006 |
|
|
3 |
0.15931373 |
EL |
2007 |
|
|
4 |
0.15647482 |
EL |
2007 |
|
|
1 |
0.1721519 |
EL |
2008 |
Here 37% of our outliers went on to see action in the show, with Youkilis and Granderson being legitimate stars. How about negative walk rates?
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
BB% (worst) |
League |
Year |
|
3 |
0.03180915 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
4 |
Jesus Feliciano* |
0.04034582 |
EL |
2005 |
|
4 |
0.04572565 |
EL |
2007 |
|
|
5 |
0.04580153 |
EL |
2007 |
Finally, we see as we graduate to higher levels a more traditional Sabermetric valuation play out as predictive measure.
Let’s look at K-Rates. Here we see that even at the higher levels, low K-rates seem to be a consistent predictor in finding future major leaguers.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
K% |
League |
Year |
|
2 |
0.06504065 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
4 |
0.08856089 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
5 |
0.09057971 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
1 |
0.05135135 |
EL |
2004 |
|
|
4 |
Andy Cannizaro |
0.0945122 |
EL |
2004 |
|
5 |
0.10526316 |
EL |
2004 |
|
|
2 |
0.1015625 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
3 |
Jesus Feliciano* |
0.10869565 |
EL |
2005 |
|
4 |
Melvin Dorta |
0.1127451 |
EL |
2005 |
|
5 |
0.13069909 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
2 |
Melvin Dorta |
0.08415842 |
EL |
2006 |
|
1 |
0.05315615 |
EL |
2007 |
|
|
3 |
Luis Cruz |
0.09066667 |
EL |
2008 |
As with the positive BB-rates, there were 13 players and 2 legitimate stars in this list, Mauer and Pedroia.
Surprisingly (to me) the outliers of negative K-Rates also produced 13 Major Leaguers, though realistically they amount to Ryan Howard and 12 cups of coffee.
|
P-Sabr Rank |
Player |
K% (worst) |
League |
Year |
|
4 |
Anderson Machado |
0.28368794 |
EL |
2003 |
|
5 |
0.28293737 |
EL |
2003 |
|
|
1 |
Ryan Howard* |
0.34491979 |
EL |
2004 |
|
3 |
Mitch Jones |
0.30645161 |
EL |
2004 |
|
4 |
0.29835391 |
EL |
2004 |
|
|
1 |
0.39845758 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
3 |
0.30921053 |
EL |
2005 |
|
|
3 |
0.34936709 |
EL |
2006 |
|
|
3 |
Matthew Cepicky |
0.30939227 |
EL |
2007 |
|
2 |
0.32094595 |
EL |
2008 |
|
|
3 |
0.32044199 |
EL |
2008 |
|
|
4 |
0.3187067 |
EL |
2008 |
|
|
5 |
0.31151242 |
EL |
2008 |
Well that’s it. Thanks for humoring me. If I can get it together, next I'll do a pitching system.
7 comments
|
2 recs |
Tweet
The Blind Baseball Scout II
In Part 2 of The Blind Baseball scout, we’ll look at how Giants prospects from 2009 & 2010 have stacked up according to P-Sabr with some league wide and BBA (Baseball America) comparisons. We’ll take a look at three leagues, The Sally, California and Eastern Leagues.
First the Sally League in 2009. Early returns are not good on the hitting prospects here, the league has produced only 7 Major League hitters (of those qualified for P-Sabr) and only one of those has a positive O-WAR (Ryan Lavarnway - #23 in P-Sabr rankings) as of yet. It’s far too early too pass judgment, but the eye test doesn’t seem to offer much hope either. Both P-Sabr and BBA agreed that the recently traded Derrick Norris was the best hitting prospect in the league, which even Billy Beane would probably admit has some major question marks. Two of P-Sabr’s top ten hitters have made it to the show (Jordan Pacheco and Steve Lombardozzi), while Tim Federowicz from BBA’s top list (DNQ in P-Sabr) has made it.
|
P-SABR |
|
P-SABR Score |
|
|
1 |
|
42 |
|
|
2 |
Travis d'Arnaud |
29 |
|
|
3 |
Anthony Gose* |
29 |
|
|
4 |
Corban Joseph |
28 |
|
|
5 |
Jordan Pacheco |
27 |
|
|
6 |
Steve Lombardozzi |
27 |
|
|
7 |
Scott Robinson |
20 |
|
|
8 |
Jose Pirela |
|
16 |
|
9 |
Jay Austin* |
|
14 |
It wasn’t a pretty year for Giants hitters either. Only one current Giants prospect (Ehire Adrianza) had a P-Sabr score (-4) above the mean of –31.38. His score was good, for an overall ranking of #21. Other current prospects Charlie Culberson (P-Sabr score –38, ranking #60) and Wendell Fairley (-78, #88) placed below the mean.
|
Lg/Year |
Giants |
P-Sabr Score |
|
Sally-2009 |
Charlie Culberson |
-38 |
|
Sally-2009 |
Ehire Adrianza |
-4 |
|
Sally-2009 |
Wendell Fairley |
-78 |
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
In the Sally League 2010 rankings, there is a consensus on 2 of the top three prospects in P-Sabr and BBA rankings. They both agreed that Jonathan Singleton and Nolan Arenado were among the three best hitting prospects in the league, but P-Sabr pulled off a short-term coup finding Jose Altuve (one of only three eligible players to make the show thus far) as the second best prospect in the league. Altuve missed BBA’s rankings altogether. This top ten represents the only players with positive P-Sabr Scores in the league.
|
|
P-SABR |
|
P-Sabr Score |
|
1 |
Jonathan Singleton* |
68 |
|
|
2 |
Jose Altuve |
|
51 |
|
3 |
Nolan Arenado |
47 |
|
|
4 |
J.P. Ramirez* |
32 |
|
|
5 |
J.D. Martinez |
32 |
|
|
6 |
Jake Goebbert* |
13 |
|
|
7 |
Cesar Puello |
|
13 |
|
8 |
Chris McGuiness* |
13 |
|
|
9 |
9 |
||
|
10 |
Jefry Marte |
5 |
|
As for Giants prospects, all four relevant players scored above the P-Sabr mean score of –36.19. Of note, Ryan Cavan just missed out on the top ten, tied for eleventh in the rankings, and the only player to make BBA’s top list had the worst P-Sabr score of all Giants, Chris Dominguez. Liles ranked #20, Joseph #43 and Dominguez #45.
|
Lg/Year |
Giants |
P-Sabr Score |
|
Sally 2010 |
Ryan Cavan |
0 |
|
Sally 2010 |
Nick Liles |
-12 |
|
Sally 2010 |
Tommy Joseph |
-24 |
|
Sally 2010 |
Chris Dominguez |
-25 |
Now for a look at the Cal league 2009. 20 of all qualified players have gone to play MLB, 8 of those players were members of BBA’s top 12 Cal League hitting prospects, and 6 of those made the P-Sabr top 13. BBA liked the Giants prospects this year who placed four players in the BBA top list, while P-Sabr only had 2. This is also the year that Buster Posey ranked at the top of BBA’s chart, and to this point he’s clearly the best player to come out of the league in 2009. In this instance showed P-Sabr once again showed its weakness in projecting catchers and ranked Buster as only the 6th best prospect in the league.
|
|
P-SABR |
P-Sabr score |
|
|
1 |
Alex Liddi |
74 |
|
|
2 |
Thomas Neal |
70 |
|
|
3 |
Tyson Gillies |
66 |
|
|
4 |
Trayvon Robinson |
50 |
|
|
5 |
Koby Clemens |
35 |
|
|
6 |
Buster Posey |
|
31 |
|
7 |
Matthew Sweeney |
27 |
|
|
8 |
Logan Forsythe |
20 |
|
|
9 |
James Darnell |
12 |
|
|
10 |
Grant Desme |
|
12 |
|
11 |
Scott Van Slyke |
11 |
|
|
12 |
James McOwen |
10 |
|
|
13 |
Jason Castro |
|
10 |
Of the 8 Giants ranked, 6 ranked above the P-Sabr mean of -41.94. I’ve included Brian Bocock, because hey – He’s Brian Bocock! He’s the man with the 94th worst offensive performance in the Cal League 2009 according to P-Sabr.
|
Lg/Year |
Giants |
P-Sabr Score |
|
Cal 2009 |
70 |
|
|
Cal 2009 |
Buster Posey |
31 |
|
Cal 2009 |
6 |
|
|
Cal 2009 |
-6 |
|
|
Cal 2009 |
-11 |
|
|
Cal 2009 |
-11 |
|
|
Cal 2009 |
-42 |
|
|
Cal 2009 |
Brian Bocock |
-110 |
From the 2010 Cal league, 8 qualifying players have made the show thus far, but this does not include Mike Trout, who BBA considered the best prospect in the league as well as all of baseball. Three of BBA’s top hitters, including Trout have made the Majors as have three of P-Sabr’s. On both lists are Paul Goldschmidt and Brandon Belt, but P-Sabr concluded that the best prospect was Kyle Seager, who didn’t appear in BBA’s rankings.
|
Rank |
P-SABR |
P-Sabr Score |
|
|
1 |
Kyle Seager |
70 |
|
|
2 |
Stephen Parker |
57 |
|
|
3 |
Johermyn Chavez |
42 |
|
|
4 |
Brandon Belt* |
42 |
|
|
5 |
Grant Green |
|
41 |
|
6 |
Daniel Robertson |
38 |
|
|
7 |
Cole Figueroa |
31 |
|
|
8 |
Charlie Culberson |
28 |
|
|
9 |
Vincent Belnome |
25 |
|
|
10 |
Paul Goldschmidt |
25 |
|
|
11 |
Rich Poythress |
25 |
|
|
12 |
Marc Krauss |
19 |
|
|
13 |
Cody Decker |
17 |
|
|
14 |
Davis Stoneburner |
17 |
|
|
15 |
Juan Perez |
|
16 |
It was a good year for the San Jose Giants in 2010 and 6 of the 8 players who qualified finished with a P-Sabr score above the Mean of -39.71.
|
Lg/Year |
Giants |
P-Sabr Score |
|
Cal 2010 |
Brandon Belt* |
42 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Charlie Culberson |
28 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Juan Perez |
16 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Francisco Peguero |
2 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Johnny Monell |
-6 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Jose Flores |
-20 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Ehire Adrianza |
-42 |
|
Cal 2010 |
Wendell Fairley |
-65 |
The Eastern League of 2009 has produced 30 players who have gone on to play in the majors. This does not include 8 of the 12 players in BBA’s top rankings who did not qualify for the P-Sabr system. This included some very good young players including Pedro Alvarez, Jesus Montero, Dominic Brown, Wilson Ramos, Ike Davis, Jose Tabata, Scott Sizemore, and Brandon Snyder. Nevertheless, the top 6 players found by P-Sabr have gone on to see time in the majors.
|
Rank |
P-SABR |
P-Sabr Score |
|
|
1 |
Michael Taylor |
55 |
|
|
2 |
Carlos Santana |
44 |
|
|
3 |
Eduardo Nunez |
40 |
|
|
4 |
Ruben Tejada |
38 |
|
|
5 |
Josh Thole |
|
38 |
|
6 |
Ryan Kalish* |
32 |
|
|
7 |
Reegie Corona |
25 |
|
|
8 |
Nick Weglarz* |
24 |
|
|
9 |
Rene Tosoni |
20 |
|
|
10 |
Alex Avila |
19 |
|
|
11 |
Josh Reddick |
|
18 |
|
12 |
David Cooper* |
15 |
|
|
13 |
Ryan Strieby |
12 |
|
|
14 |
7 |
||
|
15 |
Brett Pill |
3 |
|
It was a good year for Major league prospects, but not necessarily Giants prospects. Of the 5 relevant Giants, three had a P-Sabr score above the League mean of –40.9, but the shine is all but gone on all save 2 of them.
|
Lg/Year |
Giants |
P-Sabr Score |
|
EL 2009 |
Brock Bond |
7 |
|
EL 2009 |
3 |
|
|
EL 2009 |
Mike McBryde |
-11 |
|
EL 2009 |
Eddy Martinez-Esteve |
-15 |
|
EL 2009 |
Brandon Crawford |
-50 |
The Eastern League of 2010 thus far has seen an incredible 35 P-Sabr qualified players who have gone on to see Major League time. That says something of the depth of the league, but the jury is still out on the top tier talent. Nine of the top ten players ranked by BBA have gone on to see Major League time, most notably Brandon Belt, who did not qualify for P-Sabr and Dominic Brown was ranked number 1 by both systems. Eight of the top Eleven P-Sabr ranked players have seen action in the show and at this point the best player found by P-Sabr not ranked by BBA seems to be Ben Revere.
|
Rank |
P-SABR |
|
P-Sabr Score |
|
1 |
Domonic Brown* |
58 |
|
|
2 |
Brandon Laird |
33 |
|
|
3 |
Chris Marrero |
31 |
|
|
4 |
Thomas Neal |
29 |
|
|
5 |
Che-Hsuan Lin |
26 |
|
|
6 |
Lonnie Chisenhall |
26 |
|
|
7 |
Anthony Rizzo* |
25 |
|
|
8 |
Yamaico Navarro |
25 |
|
|
9 |
Kirk Nieuwenhuis |
20 |
|
|
10 |
Ben Revere |
|
20 |
|
11 |
Jason Kipnis |
19 |
|
|
12 |
Matt Rizzotti* |
19 |
|
Only two Giants ranked above the league mean P-Sabr score of –40.94, and the best rated Giant is now an Indian.
|
Lg/Year |
Giants |
P-Sabr Score |
|
EL 2010 |
Thomas Neal |
29 |
|
EL 2010 |
Conor Gillaspie |
-6 |
|
EL 2010 |
Darren Ford |
-57 |
|
EL 2010 |
Brandon Crawford |
-60 |
|
EL 2010 |
Nick Noonan |
-73 |
Next week – 2011.
5 comments
|
4 recs |
Tweet
The Blind Baseball Scout
One of my favorite topics on the McCovey Chronicles is Minorlines and the debate on the potential of Giants prospects, but since I live on the east coast and nowhere near Richmond or Augusta I’m limited in my ability to assess prospects via the old-fashioned eye test. Aside from a few college At-Bats and the scouting videos on the internet, I suspect I’m like most of us, I get my information from the typical sources, Baseball America, John Sickels et. al. I’ve often thought it would be cool to have a sabermetric system of grading prospects, so I finally got off my butt and did what any industrious McCoven would do an made one.
So, here’s The Blind Baseball Scout, which we’ll refer to as P-SABR (if you can think of something better, please let me know). Today we’ll look at some historical comparisons of P-SABR versus Baseball America’s top hitters (there’s no P-SABR for Pitchers yet) by league (AZ, NW, SALLY, CAL and EL) from 2003 to 2008.
I should note that P-SABR is meant to be a quick and dirty analysis tool, and has some obvious drawbacks. It’s compiled using players with the top 100 plate appearances in the league, so some “hot” prospects who are promoted mid-season don’t qualify for P-SABR due to its sample size constraints. An example of this in 2011 would be Bryce Harper, who made two lists for Baseball America, but did not qualify for P-SABR due to too few plate appearances in both the Sally and Eastern League.
Here are some significant players selected by Baseball America between 2003-2008 who did not qualify for P-SABR due to too few plate appearances.
|
|
While this sample size demand appears to be a considerable limitation, P-SABR seems to be adept at finding players that Baseball America overlooks as well. Here are some players that appear on P-SABR’s rankings, but did not make Baseball America’s top lists (by league).
|
Players found by P-Sabr, Not BBA |
Year |
League |
|
2005 |
Sally |
|
|
2003 |
Cal |
|
|
2005 |
EL |
|
|
2004 |
Sally |
|
|
2007 |
Sally |
|
|
2004 |
Sally |
|
|
2007 |
NWL |
|
|
2004 |
Sally |
|
|
2005 |
EL |
|
|
2006 |
Sally |
|
|
Michael Brantley* |
2005 |
AZL |
|
2003 |
EL |
|
|
2004 |
EL |
|
|
Nick Markakis |
2004 |
Sally |
|
2004 |
EL |
There are also players that P-SABR just did not rate high enough to make its list. The first thing you’ll notice about these eleven players is that 5 of them are (or in the case of Pablo, were) catchers, others like Span, Bourne and Bourjos owe a good to significant proportion of their value to their defensive skills, which represent two areas of potential improvement to the P-SABR system, Positional and defensive valuations. As it stands now, P-SABR has no way of accounting for a prospect potential value based on position or defensive skill.
|
2003 |
AZL |
|
|
2003 |
Sally |
|
|
2005 |
NWL |
|
|
Chris Ianetta |
2005 |
Cal |
|
2005 |
EL |
|
|
Michael Bourne |
2005 |
EL |
|
2005 |
Cal |
|
|
2005 |
NWL |
|
|
Pablo Sandoval |
2004 |
AZL |
|
2008 |
Cal |
|
|
2004 |
EL |
Over the next couple of days we’ll look at comparisons of Giants prospects over the last few years, and then take a look at what P-SABR thinks of Giants prospects of 2011. But first here’s the statistical paper that analyzes P-SABR, complete with hypothesis testing and explanations of the grading system – so be warned –Geeks only!
The Blind Baseball Scout
Abstract
The Blind Baseball Scout (P-SABR) is a Sabermetric model that measures minor league production with the goal of predicting a players future value as, and likelihood to become a Major League Ballplayer. The P-SABR assigns points to players across 9 different statistical areas, the sum of which produces a total score for the entire season. The top players represent the players with the highest scores. In order to test this model the results have been compared against the top hitting prospects from Baseball America (BBA), the nations leading scouting publication, using the proportion of players who make the Major Leagues and the population of “top players” mean WAR value as measurements of value from both systems. P-SABR was run from 2003 to 2008 in five select leagues, the Arizona Rookie league, The Northwest Rookie League, The Sally League, The California League and the Eastern League and compared to BBA’s results. The results of both systems were analyzed statistically on the basis of proportion of players who made the major leagues. The populations of both methods were then tested based on their mean “WAR” value (based on WAR {Wins over replacement}, a Sabermetric valuation of individual players). Both comparisons were tested by the hypothesis that P-SABR would be equal to BBA in finding future major leaguers and forecasting the value of those players at a 98% confidence level, with the alternative hypothesis being that they will not be equal.
Introduction
The goal of this project is to determine a viable process in applying the use of sabermetric data in projecting the future performance and value of minor league prospects.
Sabermetrics is generally considered an effective and objective method in the valuation of Major League Baseball player performance, however because of a number of factors it is not nearly as reliable in predicting the future performance of Minor League players. This process will attempt to address the factors that make the application of sabermetrics to minor league performance ineffective by giving specific skills, flaws and factors greater weight in order to bring equilibrium to the players performance.
In order to measure the effectiveness of this system, I will test the hypothesis that this system is equal Baseball America, the nations leading scouting publication, by comparing their top hitting prospects from 2003 to 2008 in five select leagues, the Arizona Rookie league, The Northwest Rookie League, The Sally League, The California League and the Eastern League to this system. I will compare proportions of ranked players who go on to see Major League playing time in both systems, as a test of proportion. I will also compare the value of those players who made it to the major leagues based on their Offensive WAR (Wins Above Replacement) value as a test of means. In this later test, the mean (WAR value) of both systems will be taken for both systems.
The aforementioned variables that make Minor League predictions so difficult are age, where “very young players, as a whole, return 25 percent more value than expected by their draft slots” (Rany Jazayerli), Strike-out rates , where “it appears as though the success rates for prospect development drop sharply when strikeout rates hit about 22%.” (Minorleagueball.com). Then there are the more traditionally acknowledged variables like Walk Rates, Batting Average, Extra-Base Hit percentage, Home Run Percentage, On Base Percentage. There’s also my own metric Stolen Base Efficiency, which attempts to project the value of a hitters speed and running ability. The best performers in each category are assigned a score, which decreases towards zero incrementally as we reach the median, once the median is reached scores progress negatively incrementally towards the worst performers.
The data will be obtained from Baseball-reference minor league data sorted by Plate Appearances. The top 100 plates appearances will be each sample. This will be used to ensure the largest possible sample sizes. This has the advantage of eliminating top performers who do it over relatively short periods of time, the disadvantage is that sometimes really good prospects spend a short time in a given league because of good performance, are promoted to another league and (consequently) will be undefined under this system.
Notes on the data compilation
Page 1 is the source data compiled from Baseball-reference. Com
Page 2 is the age of the players. As mentioned above age is one of the two primary factors in this approach. Previous research from Bill James and Rany Jazayerli are central to the theory, which states, “The younger the player, the greater the slope of the curve—meaning the greater the rate at which he improves” (Javeri, Rani. taken from the web) It is for this reason that age is weighted so heavily in this model.
|
AGE |
Score |
|
17 |
40 |
|
18 |
35 |
|
19 |
30 |
|
20 |
20 |
|
21 |
-3 |
|
22 |
-15 |
|
23 |
-20 |
|
24 |
-30 |
|
25 |
-35 |
As you see here players that who are younger than the mean are given points strictly on the basis of the basis of their age. The farther below the mean the greater the positive score, and conversely the greater the age above the mean the greater the negative score.
Players who are at the mean are given a small negative score. This is primarily because they are often (in this league) college players who have experience that is potentially at or above the level of the league.
This weighting system based on age and the weighting system based on K% are the only pieces that will change from league to league. At the lower levels (NW league and AZ league) older players are given a greater disadvantage (negative score), this is based on the theory that their advanced age and experience is an even greater advantage when the competition is so young and inexperienced. Players with higher strike out rates at lower levels are also given a greater disadvantage (negative score) at the lower levels, based on the assumption that the inability to make contact will be a further hindrance at higher levels when the competition is stiffer.
Page 3 is a simple effort to manage sample size. Sample size plays a very important role in this experiment, as it is the basis of the population selected (the top 100 players based on # of Plate Appearances) and it potentially a major weakness in the hypothesis. It is common for organizations to promote their players who are performing well to a higher league, which often mean that those players (good performers) won’t eligible for this method. We will see many players in Baseball America’s (BBA) top rankings who do not qualify for this method.
|
Mean PA |
468.33 |
|
Plate App. |
Score |
|
x-525 |
7 |
|
524-475 |
3 |
|
474-425 |
0 |
|
424-375 |
-5 |
|
374-x |
-10 |
A small positive is given for players who have the most PA’s and a small deduction is given to those who have the fewest. This theorizes that the more PA’s one has the better one’s performance will represent ones talent. The mean should fall somewhere in the middle and will be given no bonus or deduction.
Pages 4, 5 and 8 are measurements of one very important measure of value, the ability to not make an out. As Bill James said “the difference between winning teams….is the difference between ‘outs’ and ‘runners on base’ “(James, Bill, The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, 2001, The Free Press. Page 642), these three statistics attempt to measure this skill. First is Batting Average (BA).
<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->
|
Mean BA * |
= |
Score |
|
1.25 |
0.3297125 |
17 |
|
1.2 |
0.316524 |
13 |
|
1.175 |
0.30992975 |
10 |
|
1.15 |
0.3033355 |
7 |
|
1.1 |
0.290147 |
3 |
|
1 |
0.26377 |
0 |
|
0.95 |
0.2505815 |
-5 |
|
0.9 |
0.237393 |
-10 |
|
0.85 |
0.2242045 |
-15 |
|
0.8 |
0.211016 |
-20 |
|
0.75 |
0.1978275 |
-25 |
Averages that are at the mean are credited with 0 and are progressively (i.e. Mu + 10% =3) awarded point as players are above the mean.
The next measurement is on base percentage (OBP), where we see a similar grading system where the highest points are gained above Mu + 20%.
|
|
Mu ( x) + Mu |
|
|
X |
= |
Score |
|
0.2 |
0.3987 |
15 |
|
0.17 |
0.3887325 |
13 |
|
0.13 |
0.3754425 |
10 |
|
0.1 |
0.365475 |
7 |
|
0.07 |
0.3555075 |
5 |
|
0.03 |
0.3422175 |
3 |
|
Mu |
0.332 |
0 |
|
-0.03 |
0.3222825 |
-5 |
|
-0.07 |
0.3089925 |
-10 |
|
-0.1 |
0.299025 |
-15 |
|
-0.13 |
0.2890575 |
-20 |
|
-0.17 |
0.2757675 |
-25 |
And lastly, there is BB%, which measures the percentage of walks a player takes per plate appearance. “1” represent Mu * 1.
|
Mu (x) |
= |
Score |
|
1.65 |
0.13645191 |
10 |
|
1.4 |
0.11577738 |
7 |
|
1.25 |
0.10337266 |
5 |
|
1.1 |
0.09096794 |
3 |
|
1 |
0.08269813 |
0 |
|
0.9 |
0.07442832 |
-3 |
|
0.75 |
0.0620236 |
-5 |
|
0.6 |
0.04961888 |
-7 |
|
0.45 |
0.03721416 |
-10 |
|
0.25 |
0.02067453 |
-15 |
Next on page 6 and 7 we have two measurements of power hitting ability. Extra-base hit percentage (XBH%) and Home Run percentage (HR%).
XBH%
|
|
Mu (x) + Mu |
|
|
X |
= |
Score |
|
0.5 |
0.124798452 |
15 |
|
0.45 |
0.120638504 |
13 |
|
0.3 |
0.108158658 |
10 |
|
0.15 |
0.095678813 |
7 |
|
0.05 |
0.087358916 |
3 |
|
Mu |
0.0832 |
0 |
|
-0.05 |
0.07903902 |
-3 |
|
-0.15 |
0.070719123 |
-7 |
|
-0.25 |
0.062399226 |
-10 |
|
-0.35 |
0.054079329 |
-15 |
|
-0.45 |
0.045759432 |
-20 |
|
-0.5 |
0.041599484 |
-25 |
HR%
|
X |
Mu (x) = |
Score |
|
3.5 |
0.06884643 |
15 |
|
2.75 |
0.05409362 |
13 |
|
2 |
0.03934082 |
10 |
|
1.5 |
0.02950561 |
7 |
|
1.25 |
0.02458801 |
3 |
|
1 |
0.01967041 |
0 |
|
0.9 |
0.01770337 |
-3 |
|
0.75 |
0.01475281 |
-7 |
|
0.6 |
0.01180224 |
-10 |
|
0.5 |
0.0098352 |
-15 |
|
0 |
0 |
-20 |
On page nine we have Strike-out percentage (K%). Thanks to the work of RedSoxFaithful we have a sense that as K-rates in prospects increase, their chance for major leagues success goes down. ( Minorleagueball.com ) This is how we’ll weigh Strike Outs in our model in the higher leagues (Sally, Cal & Eastern).
|
X |
Mu (x) = |
Score |
|
0.45 |
0.10074501 |
15 |
|
0.55 |
0.12313279 |
13 |
|
0.65 |
0.14552057 |
10 |
|
0.75 |
0.16790835 |
5 |
|
0.95 |
0.21268391 |
0 |
|
1 |
0.2238778 |
-3 |
|
1.1 |
0.24626558 |
-10 |
|
1.2 |
0.26865336 |
-20 |
|
1.35 |
0.30223503 |
-30 |
|
1.5 |
0.3358167 |
-35 |
On Page ten we have an attempt to measure speed as a tool for success. This is not really attempt to measure how well one can steal bases, it works on the theory that a player who has potentially valuable speed will be asked to steal often and will have some measured success (Stolen Bases), so this is not the percentage of successful stolen bases, this stolen bases divided by Plate Appearance. The negative grading is significantly less in this instance because, while speed can be a valuable tool, its absence is not necessarily equally a detriment.
|
X |
Mu (x) = |
Score |
|
4 |
0.11559657 |
25 |
|
3.5 |
0.101147 |
20 |
|
2.75 |
0.07947264 |
10 |
|
1.75 |
0.0505735 |
7 |
|
1.35 |
0.03901384 |
3 |
|
1 |
0.02889914 |
0 |
|
0.9 |
0.02600923 |
-3 |
|
0.75 |
0.02167436 |
-5 |
|
0.5 |
0.01444957 |
-7 |
|
0.25 |
0.00650231 |
-10 |
You’ll notice that in virtually all of these points systems the distribution is weighted heavier on the negative side, or one gets penalized more performing below or at the mean than one gets rewarded for performing above the mean. This is meant to help create a negative linear (or logistical?) model which results in markedly fewer players having a positive rating than players with a negative rating, based on the simple fact that more players will fail to make to the next level than players who move on and eventually become major leaguers. This chart is exemplary of this principle.
(For some reason I am unable to insert my graph here- sorry!)
Sample Size
As mentioned before, sample size weighs heavily in this system. Without the benefit eyes to see (a players movement, physicality and swing) and ears to hear (a coaches or scouts observations or fears) P-SABR is at significant disadvantage. Sample size represents a factor that we can attempt to account for. As an example, here are the top hitters from the Eastern League 2006 –
|
|
BBA Top Hitters |
WAR |
P-SABR |
WAR |
||||
|
1 |
4.7 |
|
Carlos Gomez |
1.3 |
||||
|
2 |
Jacoby Ellsbury |
DNQ |
12 |
-1.2 |
||||
|
3 |
Carlos Gomez |
|
1.3 |
Kevin Kouzmanoff |
5.1 |
|||
|
4 |
DNQ |
-1 |
Adam Lind* |
|
4.7 |
|||
|
5 |
Kevin Kouzmanoff |
|
5.1 |
0 |
||||
|
6 |
-1 |
Nate Schierholtz |
1.7 |
|||||
|
7 |
DNQ |
2.6 |
0.5 |
|||||
|
8 |
Kory Casto |
|
-1.4 |
|||||
|
9 |
Luis Antonio Jimenez* |
0 |
||||||
|
10 |
Chad Spann |
0 |
||||||
In this example, only 7 hitters this year made BBA rankings for the top 20 players of the league and 3 of those players (Elsbury, Crowe and Casila) did not qualify for the P-SABR system due to an insufficient amount of Plate Appearances. There are two ways we can deal with this, one, remove the players who would not qualify for P-SABR and compare only those top players who qualify (4 players), or two, expand the P-SABR sample to account for this sample size factor. The later was chosen because it is potentially a better test of P-SABR’s value, where potentially P-Sabr can find a greater proportion of MLB players (n=10) or lesser proportion, as in this case, where BBA had all (7) of their selections make it to the major leagues and P-SABR had only 70%. It also expands the population in determining mean value (WAR), where in this case BBA selections have a mean value of 3.36 (WAR) and P-SABR a 1.07 (WAR) thus far in their respective careers.
Conclusion
After testing the data it’s evident that P-SABR has some real value in finding and projecting the value of minor league players. Two sample Hypothesis tests for proportion and mean were run on each league at a 95% confidence intervals, then run on all the data combined at a 98% confidence interval, where the final P values were .0004 for proportion (rejected proportion) and .0217 (failed to reject mean), suggesting that while BBA is better at finding players who will become MLB players, P-SABR finds enough players who have value as future MLB players to suggest that the system has potential.
The null hypothesis of proportional equality was rejected in 2 out of 5 leagues, the California League and the Northwest league as well as in the overall conclusion. Clearly, BBA has an advantage in selecting players who are most likely to become Major league ball players, finding 226 future major leaguers out of a sample of 351, while P-SABR found only 213 out of 412.
In the testing of mean, the null hypothesis of equality was rejected once in the Eastern league, but failed to reject overall. This suggests that P-SABR has some value in identifying players who may have been overlooked by BBA and their system. The Mean WAR for all players selected by BBA was 2.75, while it was 1.8 for P-SABR, suggesting that there’s also room for improvement in the system.
It is also clear that there are areas that P-SABR could be improved, most notably a positional ranking, as the players that were most likely overlooked by P-SABR had positional values (i.e. catcher or middle infielder) that should have raised their overall value when compared to their peers. The most illustrative example of this would be Brian McCann (Sally league 2003), who ranked 11th in P-SABR’s system and 8th in BBA’s, but has gone on to be a 21.7 WAR player thus far in his career.
Since P-SABR is limited to analyzing a players potential value as a hitter, the expansion to a more rounded approach is recommendable. One way to attempt to account for a players future defensive value is to include positional rankings, by providing a scale of value for a players defensive position, such as 20 points for a catcher, 10 points for a Shortstop and Center fielder, 5 points for a second baseman, 0 for a Third baseman, -5 Left and Right Fielders and –10 for First baseman.
References
1-James, Bill, The New Bill James Historical Baseball Abstract, 2001, The Free Press. Page 642
2(http://www.minorleagueball.com/2011/4/22/2123847/the-significance-of-minor-league-k-rates. By Redsoxfaithful
3- http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15295#commentMessage
by Rany Jazeyleri.
4- Baseball America, The Baseball America Prospect Handbook 2004, 2004, Simon & Schuster
5- Baseball America, The Baseball America Prospect Handbook 2005, 2005, Simon & Schuster
6- Baseball America, The Baseball America Prospect Handbook 2006, 2006, Simon & Schuster
7- Baseball America, The Baseball America Prospect Handbook 2007, 2007, Simon & Schuster
8- Baseball America, The Baseball America Prospect Handbook 2008, 2008, Simon & Schuster
9- Baseball America, The Baseball America Prospect Handbook 2009, 2009, Simon & Schuster
Hypothesis test of 2 means
|
|
Mu 1 |
Mu 2 |
|
|
|
P-SABR WAR |
BBA WAR |
|
|
Mu |
1.79782082 |
2.75156695 |
|
|
StDev |
5.0269922 |
6.11363269 |
|
|
Claim µ1 = µ2 |
|||
|
Test Statistic, t: -2.3287 |
|||
|
Critical t: ±2.33186 |
|||
|
P-Value: 0.0202 |
|||
|
Degrees of freedom: 677.7948 |
|||
|
98% Confidence interval: |
|||
|
-1.90931 < µ1-µ2 < 0.0013097 |
|||
|
Fail to Reject the Null Hypothesis |
< |
||
|
Sample does not provide enough evidence to reject the claim |
|||
20 comments
|
14 recs |
Tweet
Brock Bond versus....
In honor of BA's Eastern league top twenty tomorrow....Let's play the prospect comparison game!
I suspect it's a long shot Brock Bond makes the list, but if he does it would be in the 15-20 range. I was looking for historic comps by age and league, here's one I found. He was 23 like Bond, but the numbers are over three different leagues, the highest level being 200 PA's in the Eastern league.
135 games/ 481 AB's/ 149 H's / 31 2B / 8 HR / 93 BB / 63 SO / .310/.436/.424
Here's a link to Brock Bond's numbers.
Answer Friday.
Merkin is Back
Rehab has begun. In the Dominican League.
http://www.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Merkin%20Valdez&pos=P&sid=l131&t=p_pbp&pid =429723
Showing 1 - 6 of 6
by