SB Nation User Blog: That'll Cheech You

Setoguchi and Vesce healed and ready to go against Nashville

That'll Cheech You — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 22:21:29 -0000

Setoguchi and Vesce healed and ready to go against Nashville

Update from WTC, and it looks like Setoguchi and Vesce are penciled into the lineup for Tuesday.

For all you Vesce lovers, it looks like he'll be bumped back down to the fourth line to accomodate Setoguchi on the first. Per WTC, the lines should look something like this...

Heatley - Thornton - Setoguchi
Marleau - Pavelski - Clowe
McGinn - Malhotra - Ortmeyer
Shelley - Nichol - Vesce

On a related note, Mitchell is skating and practicing with the team (on the fourth line today, as Shelley took a maitenance day), and it looks like he's getting close to a return. Don't quote me on that, though.

Joe Thornton: Stone Cold Killa?

That'll Cheech You — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 17:50:48 -0000

[Editor's Note] I'm updating this right after the Pittsburgh game, so the stats won't reflect that absolute thrashing of the Pens.

Problem: I can't find the exact quote I'm looking for, after spending the good chunk of my day looking for it.

Solution: Just trust me. Blindly.

McLellan stated at the end of last season that he took responsibility for not getting enough players ready to play on the penalty kill. Due to injuries, the Sharks' 5th ranked regular season penalty kill (83.3%) dropped to 78.8% in the post season. They allowed five power play goals in six games against the Ducks (four losses); a problem that was looked at heavily in the offseason.

The top six penalty killing forwards last year were Patrick Marleau (2.45 TOI/60), Mike Grier (2.44 TOI/60), Travis Moen (2.36 TOI/60), Joe Pavelski (2.06 TOI/60), Milan Michalek (1.96 TOI/60) and Marcel Goc (1.43 TOI/60). Of those six players, only two (Marleau and Pavelski) remain with the team.

Because of player movement, it was a given that there would be different faces on the penalty killing unit this year. However, one of the new faces is a bit surprising.

The top six penalty killers this year are as follows: Joe Pavelski (2.78 TOI/60 in two games), Patrick Marleau (2.42 TOI/60), Scott Nichol (2.12 TOI/60), Manny Malhotra (2.00 TOI/60), Jed Ortmeyer (1.57 TOI/60), and Joe Thornton (1.23 TOI/60). Wait, what?

That's right. The 19 you saw blocking shots and hustling around the ice wasn't an optical illusion. That's Joe Thornton out there, putting up top six penalty kill minutes.

Joe Thornton has never been the best defensive forward, but it looks like that might have changed, at least when a man down. Let's take a look at his defensive numbers for the young season.

Joe Thornton - 2009

	GP	TOI/60	GAON/60	GAOFF/60	GAON
Even Strength	18	14.90	2.61	2.47	11
Penalty Kill	18	1.23	2.87	6.30	1
Power Play	18	3.72	0.95	0.00	1

TOI/60: Time on ice/60 min GAON/60: Goals against on ice/60 min GAOFF/60: Goals against off ice/60 min GAON: Goals against while on ice

First, Joe still isn't the best defensive forward even strength (he's only +1 on the season). However, these numbers also show that Thornton has been a beast on the penalty kill, allowing almost four less goals per sixty minutes of ice time than the rest of the killers (both forwards and defensemen). In fact, Joe has only allowed one goal over the 22 minutes he's played shorthanded this season. That's very solid.

Am I advocating that Joe should move up to the first PK unit immediately? Hellllllll to the no. However, it's a beautiful thing that you are getting such solid penalty killing out of your franchise player. It's especially important this season, since Pavelski, a quasi-elite two way forward, only played a few games before injuring his foot. Although Pavelski is now back in the lineup after 15 games on the shelf, Thornton has provided stability to a team that could have been destroyed by an injury to one of its most important special teams pieces. Those problems, coupled with the Sharks' wildly inconsistent play to start the season, could have spelt some serious trouble.

The surprises don't stop with Thornton, though. Guess who's next among forwards with .90 TOI/60 of shorthanded time? Dany Heatley, who hasn't been scored on shorthanded. However, unlike Thornton, Heatley has played mostly in the last 20-30 seconds of a penalty.

Now that Pavelski is back (logging 0:24 shorthanded against Pittsburgh, for those of you playing at home), should he reclaim time from Thornton (who played 0:54 shorthanded last night)? When (or, more appropriately, if) Torrey Mitchell is able to come back to reclaim his spot as a top four penalty killing forward, will his minutes supplant Thornton's (and Heatley's)?

The recoveries of Pavelski and (eventually) Mitchell will likely mean a decrease in Thornton's shorthanded time. But, if the Sharks want to limit minutes played by their best players (Marleau, Pavelski, Thornton, Heatley), then perhaps the best option is to continue playing Thornton for a few shorthanded shifts a game. The time that Thornton has spent on the kill hasn't affected his numbers thus far, as he's on pace to have one of his best ever statistical seasons (on track for 100 points).

Having so many skilled penalty killers will be a blessing for the Sharks as the season progresses, since they'll more able to deal with injuries (as they have so far). If Thornton continues to play stingy defense while contributing offensively, expect to see his name on some MVP ballots after it's all said and done. McLellan would be smart to keep rolling out Jumbo Joe with a man in the box.

Go Sharks.

WTC: McGinn and Couture reassigned to Worcester... or, not.

That'll Cheech You — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:37:40 -0000

WTC: McGinn and Couture reassigned to Worcester... or, not.

So, we got some mixed signals this morning. After receiving a heads up from our people in Worcester, it appeared as if Logan Couture and Jamie McGinn were being sent back to Worcester.

However, Pollack just updated WTC, and noted that one or both of those players were going to be on the trip to Columbus, and none of the four players currently sidelined with injuries (Pavelski, Mitchell, Vesce and Setoguchi) are ready to return. Setoguchi isn't even skating, but is back on the stationary bike.

We'll probably see how the roster will shake out as we get closer to Wednesday's game.

Do the San Jose Sharks rush their prospects?

That'll Cheech You — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 01:37:20 -0000

For more insight on the state of San Jose's prospects and minor league system, see our recent Q & A with Worcester Sharks Director of Public Relations and Broadcasting Eric Lindquist.

With the odd, tumultuous journey of Jamie McGinn fresh on everyones mind (covered here, here, here and here), Plank and I started talking about the general state of San Jose's prospects. The system is healthier than it's been in a long time, and it seems that a few of our recent first and second round draftees (Logan Couture, Nick Petrecki, Jamie McGinn) are close to being ready to contribute full time at the NHL level. However, these three players have only been in the system for at most three years, and McGinn has already seen his first sniff of NHL action. Is it too early to look to these players to contribute?

It's always been the common mindset that San Jose is quick to expose it's drafted talent to the NHL. Detroit, on the other hand, is thought to age their prospects like a fine wine, waiting until their 17-19 year old boys become 25 year old men. Men who are accustomed to the professional game.

Are these perceptions true? Which is the right strategy? I decided to dive into it statistically and compare the path of Detroit and San Jose's recent draft picks.

Before I show any of the stats, let me explain a little. You guys tend to be little vultures, so I'm going to do my best to protect myself early, even though you will probably find a place where I say "their" instead of "there."

I only used draft picks made after 2001, as it would more accurately reflect the recent strategies of the teams. I also only used first and second round picks, as those players are most likely to make it to the NHL before others in their respective draft class. Also, if a player made the NHL as the member of another organization (like Ty Wishart, for example, who made his debut with Tampa Bay after the Matt Carle-Dan Boyle trade), I'm not using that debut date, as that team's decision to bring that player to the NHL is independent of the team that drafted him. Les do dis.

Start with the Red Wings. Since the 2001 season, Detroit has drafted 13 players (with their average draft pick being around 47 for these 13 selections). Of these players, Detroit has brought four players the the NHL, the most recent being Justin Abdelkader (who made his NHL debut on April 3rd, 2006, 247 days after being drafted). These four players (Abdelkader, Jimmy Howard, Jiri Hudler, and Tomas Fleischmann) took an average of 895 days to make their NHL debuts. If you were to remover Abdelkader from that set (who played in only two games in his first NHL season), the average jumps to 1,111 days, or 3.04 years. That's a while.

The Sharks, on the other hand, have been luckier (if you can call it that) with their draft position. The Sharks have drafted 16 players in the first two rounds, with an average draft position of 29. Of these players, 8 have made their NHL debut in Teal, the most recent being the aforementioned Jamie McGinn. It took Jamie 857 days to make his NHL debut, but others have had a much faster path. Milan Michalek made his NHL debut 110 days after being selected by the Sharks 6th overall in 2003. Other players who also quickly made the NHL with the Sharks were Marc-Edouard Vlasic (432 days), Devin Setoguchi (456 days), and Matt Carle (643 days). In fact, the average path to the NHL for a San Jose Shark was 701 days. If you remove Lukas Kaspar or Marcel Goc from that set (both took over 1,000 days to get to the NHL), that number becomes closer to 600 days, or 1.64 years. Express train.

So yes, the answer is that the Sharks bring up their prospects much sooner than Detroit does. But what's the success that has been met by these players? Of the players that the Sharks have drafted, 7 of the 16 are now NHL players (44%), and 4 remain with the Sharks. However, of Detroit's 13 picks, only 4 players are currently employed by NHL clubs (31%). 2 remain with the Red Wings.

Eight of Detroit's picks remain within the organization, the same number remain with San Jose. However, it seems as if San Jose's rush to bring players to the NHL has been beneficial to the organization (I promise, I'll quit it with the numbers soon).

When your team's biggest free agent acquisition in history is a tie between Rob Blake (at 38) and Jeremy Roenick (at 37), it almost doesn't need to be said... your team has trouble signing free agents. Because of this, the Sharks have always depended on their GM to make trades and their young players to make an impact early. At times, the Sharks have gotten lucky (See Steve Bernier, Michalek, Setoguchi, Vlasic, Carle, etc). In other cases (Kaspar and Goc, especially), the Sharks have wasted some high draft picks. However, even with these occasional follies, you can argue that the Sharks have drafted much better than the Red Wings, in terms of these player's contributions to the NHL club. Of the those who were originally drafted by San Jose, 1509 NHL games have been played, and 649 points have been tallied at the NHL level. For Detroit, only 479 games have been played, and 208 points have been scored. (Some of these numbers were posted after the player was with another team, i.e. Carle or Fleischmann)

So, is it the Sharks who have drafted better? Well, it appears as if they have. However, you can argue the opportunity these players have received because they have moved up so early has made them more able to contribute at an NHL level. Or, simply that the time in the NHL has skewed their numbers. Or perhaps the fact that the Sharks have had a consistently higher draft position.

Has Detroit made mistakes by not moving their prospects through the system faster? Of the four who have made it to the NHL since 2001, only Abdelkader has remained with the team and shown real promise... and he's only played in four regular season games before last years run in the playoffs. Jimmy Howard, who was elevated to the position of full time backup this year, has struggled mightily so far. Was is wiser to keep him mostly in the AHL for six years, seeing how he's floundered early in his now vital NHL role? The Wings let solid platoon partner Ty Conklin walk this year, putting their trust in Howard. Is he ready to share time with Chris Osgood?

I think it all comes down to the player that you pick, and the in house evaluation of the front office and coaching staff determines if they are ready or not. San Jose has gotten away with moving their draft picks quickly through the system, while it seems that Detroit has had trouble getting production from their high selections. The Wings have the success since 2001 to prove that this hasn't really mattered in terms of building an elite squad. But San Jose has shown that Detroit's model of holding back prospect's isn't necessarily the perfect model for a prospect's ultimate development.

It's a given that both Petrecki and Couture will see their NHL debuts before Brendan Smith (Detroit's selection in 2007), seeing as both almost made the team out of camp this year. They are also possible riders on the Worcester Shuttle, which has already logged heavy mileage this year. Will they benefit from seeing the NHL earlier than Smith?

Only time, and subsequent stats, will tell.

WTC: McLellan talks about the road trip, and a Torrey Mitchell update

That'll Cheech You — Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:47:23 -0000

WTC: McLellan talks about the road trip, and a Torrey Mitchell update

Well, looks like Dave Pollak did some espionage work (eavesdropping on a Torrey-Staubitz conversation), and managed to extract a quote from Torrey, who said he'd be back in two weeks.

That's when he'll be ready to come off the LTIR (October 24th, to be exact), so it's no big surprise that he'd say that. However, it looks like Mitchell is on the right track to return soon, which is solid news considering his past.

Fingers crossed, because you never know what to expect from Mitchell, but the addition would really shore up the third and fourth lines. If Pavelski's foot injury heals as expected, they could jump back into the lineup at about the same time.

I'm looking forward to seeing these guys play again.

McLaren back to AHL, Malhotra and Nichol switch spots

That'll Cheech You — Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:06:14 -0000

McLaren back to AHL, Malhotra and Nichol switch spots

Well, it looks like the McLaren experiment is over, at least for the time being. No one has been called up to replace him, so expect to see Staubitz skating on line four.

Also, don't be surprised to see Malhotra joining him there, as McLellan seems to be experimenting with Nichol on line three with Orty and Ferriero. I don't know if we should read too much into this, though, as it could be akin to Setoguchi's "demotion" to line three after the first game of the season. Setoguchi saw one shift on the third line before getting back to his regular duties.

I do like, though, that McLellan isn't afraid to switch things up this early in the season. He's not sugarcoating anything this year, and Malhotra hasn't played particularly well 5-on-5 so far. Nichol has played well, so here's to him getting some more time on ice.

I actually don't mind what this does to our lower lines, since Malhotra is a bit more suited to play with Shelley and Staubitz than Nichol is, in so far as that he's responsible defensively. I don't like this in the long run, but it works for now.

WTC: Sharks to face Kings without any call-ups from Worcester to replace Pavelski

That'll Cheech You — Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:59:00 -0000

WTC: Sharks to face Kings without any call-ups from Worcester to replace Pavelski

Dave Pollak (both a gentleman and a scholar) has announced that the Sharks will roll with the current roster instead of bringing anyone up to replace Pavelski.

Here are the lines:

Heatley-Thornton-Setoguchi
Clowe-Marleau-Ferriero
McLaren-Malhotra-Ortmeyer
Shelley-Nichol-Staubitz

Murray-Boyle
Vlasic-Blake
Huskins-Demers

This is Ferriero's big chance to shine, and if he comes through in the next few games, it might be a while before we see McGinn in a San Jose uni again.

Blake Captain, Thornton and Boyle get the A's

That'll Cheech You — Wed, 30 Sep 2009 18:11:01 -0000

Blake Captain, Thornton and Boyle get the A's

Surprising. But I guess they went with experience first. Not saying I hate the move, but Rob will probably only be here one more year.

I'm guessing that Pavelski is the eventual choice, but wasn't ready for it yet. Instead of giving it to Boyle, who would have to have it stripped from him to give to Pavelski, Blake is the stop gap guy.

H/T to EvilDucks, who beat me by two minutes with his fanshot.

San Jose State Spartans Hockey Season Starts TONIGHT @ Sharks Ice San Jose

That'll Cheech You — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 19:06:10 -0000

San Jose State Spartans Hockey Season Starts TONIGHT @ Sharks Ice San Jose

This is the Spartans opener, and it kicks off at 8:00 PM at Sharks Ice in San Jose.

For those of you who don't know, my good friend Sam Cimino (SirSnipesalot, on these boards), will be making his debut with the team. He'll be wearing 40.

I'll be at the game, and I hope to see some of you there. It's quality hockey, and some of the SJ Sharks have been known to stop by.

St. Manny, the Benevolent

That'll Cheech You — Thu, 24 Sep 2009 01:17:15 -0000

View full size photo »

I have heard this tale before. The mythical center who rides into town, takes 1/2 pay to play for your team.

He of the penalty kill acumen. He of the defensive prowess. He of the offensive talents.

Oh, holy is that man.

Joking aside, Manny Malhotra is an absolute saint. He took a one year deal at a cap hit of $700,000 (turning down a four year offer from Atlanta for $8MM in the process), to play with San Jose. He wants to be on a winner.

He's exactly what the lower lines needed.

We've jumped in to his stats before, but here's the bare bones. He's coming off his best career season, in which he scored 35 points. He tallied 11 goals and 24 assists, and 3 of his goals were game winners. He's a great penalty killer and a solid defensive forward.

I was a big supporter of bringing Goc back, but if you gave me the choice between the two, I would pick Malhotra every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I'm not trying to make the signing sound like it's on the same level as bringing Heatley in (I've ran into trouble with not clarifying before). He's not a world beater, but he's a good fit. I was excited when he was signed, but now that the contract is finalized, I couldn't love the guy more. It's an amazing steal.

All in all, you usually don't sign a player in his prime who just had his best year to a 50% discount, but that's exactly what the Doug Wilson just did.

Praise be to Doug.