
TheHolyDiver19
Oct 11, 2009 Mar 20, 2012 7 103
just a normal dude who loves sports, video games, and jack daniels
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a fan of
St. Louis Cardinals
Golden State Warriors
Cincinnati Bengals
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Maikel Cleto hardest thrower in baseball (in 4.1 innings)
Boggs, motte, and hawksworth also on the list
Five 2nd baseman
Chase Utley 6-1, 200lbs age 32
Dustin Pedroia 5-9, 180lbs age 27
Ben Zobrist 6-3, 200lbs age 30
Ryan Theriot 5-11, 180lbs age 31
Skip Schumaker 5-10, 195 lbs age 31
What makes these players so different, while at the same time so baffling similar? 5 Caucasian men, all around the same height, weight, and age. Most of whom who arrived at the show with little to no fanfare.
Where in development do theses players branch. Is it purely natural talent? Are the organization's scouting and developmental philosophies so different?
Chase Utley was the 15th overall selection in the 2000 draft by the Philadelphia Phillies. Despite the high pick, Utley never ranked in Baseball Americas top 50. He was 81st in 2003, but thats as high as he got ( for reference, Chris Narveson was ranked 86th the year before). He broke into the show in 2003 and in his first start hit a grand slam for his first career hit. He was sent down after the game, but was recalled later in the year to replace an injured Placido Polanco. In 2004 Utley was up and down from AAA to the MLB most of the year. In limited playing time as a bench player he hit 266/308/468 with 13 HR. He Began 2005 platooning with Polanco. Placido was traded later in the year and Utley became the starter, the rest is history. Hes a 5 time all star, and has competed for a few MVPS.
Dustin Pedroia was the the 65th overall selelction (2nd round) of the 2004 draft by the Boston Red Sox. Pedroia was ranked the 77th overall prospect by BA in 2006 (Jamie Garcia was ranked 70th the following year), he only spent 2 years in the minors, batting 308 overall. He arrived in late 2006, only playing 31 games in a small role hitting 191/258/303. He replaced Mark Loretta in 2007 as the everyday 2b, and after a weak first month, established himself as one of the red sox core players. He won ROY that year, and MVP the next, and hasent stopped yet.
Ben Zobrist was the 184th overall selcetion (6th round, jarret hoffapauir was seleceted 4 ahead at 180) of the 2004 draft by the houston astros. Zobrist never cracked BA top 100, and was traded to the rays in 2006 for aubrey huff and cash. From 2006-2008, he served as a kind of jack of all trades, could play anywhere, do anything you wanted player( La russa type player huh?). In 2009 he broke out in a big way batting 297/405/543 with 27 HR and 17 steals, playing all around good D at all postions he played, although he played most at 2nd (91 games). He led all ML players hitter with an 8.6 WAR in 2009 ( Pujols had 8.4 and won the MVP). While he hasent replicated the level of succes he had in 2009, he has been a very useful ML player both offensivley and defensivley.
Ryan Theriot was the 78th overall selection (3rd round) in the 2001 draft by the chicago cubs. Theriot never ranked in BA top 100. Theriot began his carrer quite well, hitting 328/412/522 in 2006 splitting time with the ML club AAA. He eventually deposed Cesar Izturis and started at SS from 2007-2010 for the cubs (peaking at a line of 307/387/359 in 2008, stealing 28-4 in 07!) he was dethroned from the SS position by starlan castro and was subsequently traded to the dodgers for a former top prospect in blake dewitt. He spent a half season in dodger blue before he was traded to STL. You know his story from here. Theriot has no awards of significance, but if you combine his hitting line from 08, with his legs in 07, and his then average defense, at one point there was a nice little ball player there
Skip Schumaker was the 164th overall selection (5th round) in the 2001 draft by the saint louis cardinals. Schumaker was never ranked in BA top 100. He deubued in 2005 and served as a util outfielder, occasional starter until 2009, when he was converted to 2nd. He has since struggled to find consitencey since the move.
For the record picking out single players and careers to compare like this is very arbitrary, hindsight is always 20/20 afterall. I could have furhter researched comparable players who have failed (brandon wood, gordon becham, Kahlil Greene). Some whom the jury is still out ( howie kendrick, alex gordon). Or others who have exceeded expectations (Robinson cano, Ian Kinsler).
Zach Cox 6-0 215lbs age 22
Tyler Greene 6-2 190lbs age 27
Kolten Wong 5-9 190lbs age 20
Ryan Jackson 6-3 180lbs age 23
Pete Kozma 6-0 170lbs age 23
(allen craig?)
I Write this pondering the present and future. Tyler Greene's career path could possibly resemble Ben Zobrist if utilized the right way, or given a proper opportunity. Could Zach Cox, Ryan Jackson, Pete Kozma, or Kolten Wong turn into a Dustin Pedroia type player? Its possible. Do you have confidence in the cardinals organization to guide these players toward a big league future? I am not insinuating in any way that any of these players will be worth anything at all, but that they have the potential, as has been proven by others, to rise up and seize a position in which we have not had stability at for over a decade. The pieces are there.
Note, I am not a writer, nor do I fully understand the format, I've done my best to organize, spell check, and stay relevant, sorry if its not grammar proper. The main point is to raise the discussion of why these players develop so radically different, despite some obvious similarities. Is it just talent, or possibly organizational competence?
Presenting your 2011 STL Cardinals starting Shortstop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiroyuki_Nakajima
So Taguchi 2.0?
sorry if you dont like wikipedia
Why does it seem so so simple, clear, and straight forward to me
But to the organization, this team and its roster construction might as well be calculus and its applications to pornography. Its enraging, painfull, and hard to watch at times. Here are a few simple ways this team could improve itself for this year and the near future.
Release Aaron MIles, call up Tyler Greene. Greene is 26 years old, he is not and should no longer be considered a young prospect. He has proven he can hit AAA pitching and he can play 2b and ss at average to above defense. What else is there to be gained playing everyday in the minor leagues? I believe (as should the org) that the best players in your system should be playing at the MLB level. Is there a person in cardinal nation that thinks that Aaron MIles is a better ball player Tyler Greene at this stage in thier careers? I hope not. With David Freese on the DL this would be a perfect chance to get him regular playing time at the MLB level. I dont know if Greene will ever be able to make it as an everyday player for an MLB club but he would sure be a better backup than Miles. Maybe we get lucky and he duplicates his results at the mlb level that he has at AAA, we will never know if he is left to rot at AAA.
Release Jeff Suppan, call up Eduardo Sanchez. Sort of the same situation as Greene. Why is 35 year old, 85 MPH fastball Jeff FREAKIN Suppan starting in a cardinal uniform when you have Adam Ottavino and Blake Hawksworth available. Both of these players have reached the stage in thier respective careers where they are too old to be considered prospects but AAAA players. Why not give them a chance to prove themselves? This team is struggling to win with Jeff Suppan starting games so why not let it struggle to win with some players with actual ceilings of abillity. Players who have more to prove and more to give to the game. In this scenario, release soup and try out Eduardo Sanchez for a little while. He has been very successful at every level he has played at so why not try him out for a few weeks till your injured players (Penny, Freese) come back. Letting Salas play had been a great success so why not try this with Sanchez?
Trade, release, or send down Nick Stavinoha, call up Joe Mather/Allen Craig. We have seen Stavinoha for 3 months now. What we have from him is a 288/333/397 line. Ill admit he has been better than expected but thats due to luck and my low expectations. But does anyone expect that line to get better? The guys has walked 4 times all year compared to his 21 strikeouts, not exactly the definition and a guy who shows patience and promise. He has little power and no speed. So why not try out someone else? Joe Mather who plays better D, runs well, and has shown better patience and skill at the plate. He is learning to hit without the power that his wrist injuries have sapped. The trip to the minors has helped him just like one (might) help stav. Allen craig is another guy who trumps stav in almost every physical and statistical way. All im saying is whatever we are doing now at the MLB level isint working (or at least not as well as it should or could) and that a fresh face with something to prove could give this club the boost it needs.
Start
C Molina
1b Pujols
2b Schumaker
SS Ryan
3B Freese
LF Holliday
CF Rasmus
RF Ludwick
Obviously with injuries and what not this cant and wont happen. Lopez will split time with Ryan and Schu all year (and play 3rd till Freese is Healthy) and Craig/Mather/Winn will play when someone needs a breather (or injured IE ludwick at the moment). But when those players are healthy, they should be playing almost everyday.
Start
Wainwright
Carpenter
Garcia
Ottavino
Hawksworth
every 5 days till someone gets healthy or we make a deal
Franklin
McCleallan
Motte
Miller
Reyes
Boggs
Salas
Sanchez
For the Bullpen
Lopez
Larue
Winn
Greene
Mather/Craig
As the bench
Finally trade away pieces that have no room or place in the org. For example Stavinoha, Jay, Anderson, Hamiliton. Does anyone really see these guys making a real impact on this franchise. Pujols is not going anywhere (i hope) neither is Molina, Holliday, or Rasmus, so where do these players project at the MLB level? All of these player are at a position of strength in the so why not deal from that depth and bring in players that can help the MLB team down the stretch. Maybe a starting pitcher? Or you could deal them for other prospects at positions of weakness like the middle infield.
I would not mind trading for a few pieces either. If the player makes sense, and the deal does not involve miller, Sanchez, the MLB level players or anyone not critically mentioned above, than pull the trigger. The cards have a good shot at a title this year with a few adjustments, so why not take it? we dont have to mortgage our future to do it either, just trade from surplus.
It seems simple to me, maybe because i dont see them play in person i dont fully understand what is going on. What I do understand is that this 100 million dollar team is underachieving (and i realize that the starting pitcher injurues have something to do with that). So why not try something else? Instead of waiting for the problem to fix itself why not get proactive and make some moves?
Adam Wainwright ESPN love
some WWL attention
Jimmy Edmonds
Paul Cohen, the agent for Edmonds, sat by in disbelief when his client -- who had hit 382 home runs, compiled a career .905 on-base-plus-slugging percentage, won eight Gold Gloves and made four All-Star teams in a fantastic 16-year career -- couldn't get a big league offer.
"And this was after he had hit 20 homers [for San Diego and Chicago] in the last four months of the previous season," Cohen said.
Edmonds didn't want to take a Minor League deal and ended up walking away from the game, presumably for good, although Cohen says Edmonds, "is in the best shape he's been in in 10 years," so never say never.
Could Edmonds comeback to STL and play one last year? I mean we did not really get to say goodbye and he would be a good lefthanded backup cheap outfielder. He would add depth and power to the bench if he still has gas in the tank...I mean he took a year off so hes probaly fresh and healthy.
Charles Cutler
I dont know if anyone has really noticed, or talked about this guy, but I live in the Qaud Cities and have seen him play on multiple occasions. The guy really impressed me. He has a strong acurate arm, he handled the pitching staff well, he walks more than he strikes out, and hes got decent pop. I can see him being a very valuble major league player. He has not gotten a lot of prospect status love around here so I thought I would bring him to our attention and get some opinons. I live in the QC and have gotten to see many players come through here (not to mention I got to see Shelby MIiller's first pro game in the Cardinals Oginization!!) and he was definetly one of the best (Rasmus and Garcia were the only ones who impressed me more).
Ohh and one last thing...He played for Lowell Highschool in California...their mascot? THE CARDINALS...If thats not a sign I don't know what is.
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