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TheJay

Feb 12, 2008 Nov 11, 2009 366 12986

Jay is my middle name.

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Low OBP + Young Player = What Kind of Career?

With all the talk about the newest Brewer's poor hitting, I thought it would be interesting to look at some players who once found themselves in a similar position.  Specifically, players in the last twenty years who had 1000+ plate appearances through their age-23 seasons and a very low on base percentage.  Below is the list of the bottom fifteen such players by OBP (fifteen was a convenient break-off point between guys at .305 and .310).  Below that is a table showing how each of those players' careers turned out after age 23.  I think there are some pretty interesting names involved.

 

CntPlayerPosTeamsFromToAgesPAABHHRBBSOSBCSBAOBPSLGOPS
1 Cesar Izturis SS TOR/LAD 2001 2003 21-23 1201 1131 278 4 41 124 25 13 .246 .270 .319 .590
2 Alex Gonzalez SS FLA 1998 2000 21-23 1096 1031 245 24 37 220 10 6 .238 .273 .376 .649
3 Sammy Sosa RF TEX/CHW/CHC 1989 1992 20-23 1411 1293 303 37 77
358 67 34
.234 .282 .380 .662
4 Yadier Molina C STL 2004 2006 21-23 1033 937 223 16 62 91 3 6 .238 .291 .342 .632
5 Omar Infante IF DET 2002 2005 20-23 1309 1202 296 26 77 232 27 11 .246 .291 .384 .676
6 Carlos Gomez CF NYM/MIN 2007 2009 21-23 1102 1017 250 12 55 241 59 21 .246 .292 .346 .638
7 Corey Patterson CF CHC 2000 2003 20-23 1167 1094 284 33 43 266 39 9 .260 .293 .419 .712
8 Jose Lopez 2B SEA 2004 2007 20-23 1637 1524 397 28 60 200 11 8 .260 .295 .379 .674
9 Juan Uribe SS COL 2001 2003 21-23 1244 1155 298 24 59 235 19 4 .258 .298 .408 .706
10 Andujar Cedeno SS HOU 1990 1993 20-23 1074 984 242 22 71 247 15 10 .246 .299 .380 .679
11 Cristian Guzman SS MIN 1999 2001 21-23 1673 1544 400 19 89 269 62 25 .259 .302 .386 .688
12 Jose Guillen RF PIT/TBD 1997 1999 21-23 1449 1359 359 31 58 245 5 7 .264 .303 .397 .700
13 Peter Bergeron CF MON 1999 2001 21-23 1063 938 217 8 95 192 21 20 .231 .305 .321 .626
14 Mike Caruso SS CHW 1998 1999 21-22 1119 1052 292 7 34 74 34 20 .278 .305 .343 .649
15 Alex Gonzalez SS TOR 1994 1996 21-23 1071 947 221 24 93 258 23 10 .233 .305 .385 .690

 

Once again, the table below is how each player's career turned out after age 23:

CntPlayerPosTeamsFromToAgesPAABHHRBBSOSBCSBAOBPSLGOPS
1 Cesar Izturis SS 5 Tms 2004 2009 24-29 2617 2421 643 10 146 218 73 34 .266 .311 .336 .647
2 Alex Gonzalez SS FLA/CIN/BOS 2001 2009 24-32 3680 3362 842 90 199 659 16 13 .250 .300 .401 .701
3 Sammy Sosa RF CHC/BAL/TEX 1993 2007 24-38 8485 7520 2105 572 852 1948 167 73 .280 .354 .560 .914
4 Yadier Molina C STL 2007 2009 24-26 1425 1278 373 19 116 111 10 6 .292 .353 .382 .735
5 Omar Infante IF DET/ATL 2006 2009 24-27 1000 910 262 11 64 146 9 4 .288 .335 .399 .734
6 Carlos Gomez CF MIL 2010 ? 24-? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
7 Corey Patterson CF 5 Tms 2004 2009 24-29 2591 2401 595 71 126 515 145 42 .248 .289 .397 .686
8 Jose Lopez 2B SEA 2008 2009 24-25 1340 1257 358 42 51 136 9 6 .285 .313 .453 .765
9 Juan Uribe SS CHW/SFG 2004 2009 24-29 2936 2681 687 103 160 513 19 31 .256 .299 .440 .739
10 Andujar Cedeno SS HOU/SDP/DET 1994 1996 24-26 1159 1067 243 25 72 241 11 7 .228 .285 .352 .637
11 Cristian Guzman SS MIN/WSN 2002 2009 24-31 3716 3473 962 41 156 451 59 41 .277 .309 .386 .696
12 Jose Guillen RF 8 Tms 2000 2009 24-33 4389 4005 1097 164 231 745 25 19 .274 .329 .457 .785
13 Peter Bergeron CF MON 2002 2004 24-26 193 165 32 0 24 60 10 4 .194 .296 .236 .533
14 Mike Caruso IF KCR 2002 2002 25 21 20 2 0 1 2 0 0 .100 .143 .100 .243
15 Alex Gonzalez SS 6 Tms 1997 2006 24-33 4457 4030 988 113 299 907 74 38 .245 .302 .393 .694

Obviously Sammy Sosa had by far the best career offensively.  Journeyman Jose Guillen has had the second-best career.  (Gee, I wonder how that happened.)  Yadier Molina is a budding star and Jose Lopez is beginning to realize his power potential.  Christian Guzman, Juan Uribe, and (each) Alex Gonzalez have had lengthy careers and aren't bad players, but they're hardly stars.  I'm not going to touch Cesar Izturis or Corey Patterson.

Andujar Cedeno is interesting because he actually peaked at age 23.  He hit well in 1993 and 1994, especially for a shortstop, but fell off a cliff following the players' strike. He was out of the majors by 27 and died in a car accident at age 31.  Mike Caruso was the guy the Giants hoped Brian Bocock could be.  He made the 1998 White Sox after spending 1997 in High A ball.  All he did was hit .306 with 22 steals in his rookie year.  He too suffered a sharp decline.  You might remember Peter Bergeron's name from his time with AAA Indianapolis in 2004.

In any event, it's certainly possible for a young player to overcome a poor start offensively and turn into a decent player.  Certainly good defenders get plenty of opportunities to do so.  The chances of such a player turning into a star?  Not very good.

I, for one, certainly wouldn't mind being surprised.

20 comments  |  0 recs |

Can you name the two members of the 1997 Milwaukee Brewers who appeared in at least one major league game in 2009? The Brewers switched from the AL to the NL after the 1997 season.

The title of this FanShot takes you to the 1997 Brewers page on Baseball-Reference.com.

20 days ago Box_tiny TheJay 12 comments 0 recs

I think Chuckie Carr's attitude permeated the club. I noticed fans picking up on Chuckie Carr more than they did with any other. As long as Chuckie plays hard, let him have his personality. That's when he plays best. When he's happy-go-lucky we played well. The fans sensed it and enjoyed it.

Phil Garner before the 1997 season, in Leadoff, the 1997 Milwaukee Brewers Yearbook Magazine.

22 days ago Box_tiny TheJay 1 comment 0 recs

A day late, but October 16 was the 41st anniversary of the Milwaukee Bucks losing to the Chicago Bulls 89-84 and moving the franchise all-time record to 0-1.

25 days ago Box_tiny TheJay 2 comments 0 recs

Burns to Nashville Update (and CBA notes)

Rubie Q noted this in the original Mike Burns to Nashville FanShot. Tom Haudricourt updated his original post about Burns being outrighted to include this nugget from Gord Ash:

Ash also said there is a "window’ after the season in which injured players can be outrighted to the minors. Otherwise, you can’t remove injured players from your roster.

If anyone cares about the nitty-gritty details of what Ash is talking about, I believe it is covered in Section C(2)(a) of Article XIX of the CBA:

(2) Notwithstanding Section C(1) above, a Player who is injured and not able to play may be assigned to a Minor League club:

(a) During the period immediately following the close of the championship season and before the filing of Major League Reserve Lists under Major League Rule 2(a), if:

(i) the Player’s Major League Uniform Player’s Contract does not cover the next succeeding season; and

(ii) the Player, if he otherwise would have been eligible for salary arbitration as a "Super Two" Player (see Article VI(F)(1)), may elect free agency under the procedures contained in Article XX(D) in lieu of accepting the assignment; provided, however, that a Player who accepts the assignment shall not have a right, by virtue of such acceptance, to elect free agency following the next succeeding championship season.

Major league reserve lists must be filed by November 20, so they really could have kept Burns on the 40-man roster for a few more weeks. Burns' contract only covered 2009 and he is not eligible for Super Two arbitration. The passage mentions Section C(1), which forbids assigning players on the major league disabled list to the minors except for rehab purposes.

It is possible to outright injured players after the window Ash alluded to closes, but they must meet the four conditions presented in Section C(2)(b):

(b) During the period immediately following the filing of Major League Reserve Lists and before the 15th day prior to the start of the next championship season, if:

(i) the Player has less than three years of Major League service;
(ii) the contemplated assignment would not be the Player’s second (or subsequent) career outright assignment since March 19, 1990;
(iii) the Player had no Major League service the prior championship season; and
(iv) the Player was not selected by the assignor Major League Club in the immediately preceding Rule 5 Draft.

Burns would not have met conditions (ii) or (iii). The real moral of Section 2(b) is "life sucks as a AAAA player."

0 comments  |  0 recs |

Control the Transmission: What Do You Want on TV?

The standard TV introduction of a player at bat.

I was watching a playoff game the other day and the introduction of a Dodgers hitter caught my eye. The standard AVG/HR/RBI numbers were displayed, but only for the series. I believe it said .222 (2 for 9), 0 HR, 1 RBI. The particulars aren't all that important.

I wondered how many people found that graphic useful. It does give a quick snapshot of that player's performance in the postseason so far, so that's a point in its favor. In fact, that's the probably the point of postseason player graphics. During the season, however, the same AVG/HR/RBI graphic is ubiquitous. Some broadcasts throw a curve and include such new-age stats as OBP, but chances are you're stuck with the good old Triple Crown components.

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume we can agree there are better ways to describe a player's offense than using batting average, home runs, and runs batted in. This is hardly a new exercise, but my challenge to you is to create a new player graphic that includes the information you think the average fan watching should have. Your graphic will debut on Opening Day next year, so there isn't time for fans to hit the books over the winter like Ned Yost. As you might expect, there are some ground rules:

  1. You must have at least three and at most four statistics. After all, even big HDTV screens can only fit so much.
  2. The statistics have to be easily explained and understood just through relatively brief spoken explanation. There isn't time to explain in depth or show formulas. Assume it's a perfect world and all broadcasters are competent enough to explain statistical things.
  3. The same categories have to be shown for all players. It would be nice to show speed-oriented stats for fast guys and power-oriented stats for sluggers, but it's not allowed. Life isn't fair and your bosses want you to keep it simple for the production truck.

Will you stick with AVG/HR/RBI because they're widely understood and easy to grasp? Will you shake things up and add a relatively simple stat like OPS even though it has flaws? Will you add something less well known that you really like? Make your case...

34 comments  |  0 recs |

I was looking through some baseball stuff this morning and came across David Bell's name. I had forgotten he was a Brewer only a few years ago. Does anyone else have players like that? I'm not talking about Julio Mosquera types who were around for a handful of games and left.

about 1 month ago Box_tiny TheJay 37 comments 0 recs

Via McCalvy, Rick Peterson is interested in the Brewers' vacant pitching coach position. The interesting note to me comes at the end:

"A few weeks later, Peterson got a call from [Mark] Mulder, who was looking to rebuild his mechanics following shoulder surgery."

If Peterson is hired, would a non-roster invite to spring training for Mulder be coming as well?

about 1 month ago Box_tiny TheJay 5 comments 0 recs

I'm not exactly sure why there was no dedicated postseason thread the past couple days. The first game tonight has already started but better to join in the 3rd inning than not at all.

about 1 month ago Box_tiny TheJay 99 comments 0 recs

Brewers 5, Cardinals 4

It wasn't a great start, but he'll take the win.

More photos » by Jeff Curry - AP

It wasn't a great start, but he'll take the win.

W: Carlos Villanueva (4-10)
L: Kyle Lohse (6-10)
S: Trevor Hoffman (37)

MVP: Trevor Hoffman (+.209)
LVP: Carlos Villanueva (-.211)

Win Expectancy Graph

Another day, another back and forth game.  The Brewers struck first with Ryan Braun's 2-run first-inning home run.  The blast was his 200th hit of the year. Carlos Villanueva, making a spot start, gave those runs right back in the bottom of the inning.  The Brewers regained the lead in the third thanks to the Cardinals' continuing defensive malaise.  Once again, the Cardinals tied it up in the bottom of the inning.  The game remained 3-3 until the bottom of the fifth, when Brendan Ryan put the Cardinals up with an RBI double, his third hit of the game. The Cardinals loaded the bases in the inning, but Villanueva stuck out Rick Ankiel to end the threat.

Three straight singles sandwiched between strikeouts brought Alcides Escobar up with the bases loaded in the sixth inning.  Once again the listless Cardinals defense cost their starter a potential win as a routine groundout to second base was botched by miscommunication at first base; two runs scored as Julio Lugo's throw went into the dugout. Dave Weathers, Claudio Vargas, Todd Coffey, and Trevor Hoffman combined for four scoreless innings to bring home the victory.

For the second day in a row, the Brewers' least valuable player (by WPA) wound up the winning pitcher. Ryan Braun finished 2-5 with two RBI. Mike Cameron chipped in three hits, raising his season average to .252. Escobar was 0-4 with a walk in his leadoff debut and still wound up missing the MVP title by .002 (yay errors!). Coffey's relief appearance was his 78th of the season (3rd most in team history). It was also the 300th relief appearance of his career. Hoffman recorded career save #591.

6 comments  |  0 recs