SB Nation User Blog: TopDaddy

The Case for 1941

TopDaddy — Wed, 08 Jul 2009 19:39:10 -0000

ed.- bumped from the fanposts. kind of a controversial subject, and i tend to agree that there are "better" years in which alabama could claim a title (*cough* 1966 *cough*), but it's still a good read.

I titled this “The Case…” because at times I feel like a defense attorney in trying to explain and defend all things Bama. Some say this desire to explain the “inconsistencies” created by the opposition comes from a sense of insecurity, I say it’s simply the desire to bring the ignorant to a place of enlightenment. For years, I’ve defended and explained the championships from the 1920’s. For years, I’ve fought off claims that Bama is dead and gone among the upper echelon of NCAA football. However, a subject I always shied away from was that of the 1941 National Championship claimed by the University of Alabama.

As more time has passed, the more I got to thinking about the fact that I got tired of ignoring it. The nay-sayers have a right to know, and the faithful need to be informed as well. Most may say that “it is what it is” and that should be acceptable, but that’s not the way I work. Putting myself in their shoes: Had any other program won/claimed a national championship (especially a rival) given the final record and ranking of the 1941 Alabama National Championship Team, having dug no further than those two facts alone, I’d likely be up in arms as well.

The face value facts: Alabama finished 1941 with a record of 9-2, and a final AP ranking of 20. Minnesota, the reining national champions, went undefeated at 8-0. Texas, at 9-1-1 even seemed a more viable candidate for the NC, and also received a NC vote. So what’s the problem? There is an undefeated, major team (I say “major” because two other teams went undefeated as well), Bama wasn’t relatively close to matching that record, so why would anyone vote Alabama as the national champion, and furthermore, why would Alabama accept the vote? Surely they didn’t just take any ole vote that came their way, and turned and ran with it. Surely there was a reason, something deeper, the rest of the story, so to speak, that no one of this generation would know about. Well, come to find out, there is.

First, let’s take a look at the Final AP poll of 1941:

As you may or may not know, the final AP poll of that day was done after the regular season. In fact, the “final” AP poll of 1941 was done while some teams still had 2 regular season games left. So basically, the “final” AP poll was put out on November 29th, while teams like Texas, Texas A&M, and Mississippi St. (all teams who had a legit chance to still becoming champions) still had games left. So essentially, the AP national champion was crowned before the regular season was even over. And what’s more, Bama drops two spots after they throttled an 8-1 Miami team. And forget the bowl game, where Bama beat a once beaten Texas A&M team, because bowl games weren’t taken into account at that time anyway. And for all you AP advocates out there who still think it’s the final word on crowning a NC at the time, a 5-3 Northwestern team was ranked #11 in the “final” poll. Northeast bias, much? 7 of the top 11 AP teams were northern teams, but that’s just conspiracy theory on my part.

Houlgate? Who the hell, and why can we legitimately take that as a NC vote?

Glad you asked. In 1941, Houlgate was the oldest remaining recognized system for crowning National Champions. It began in 1927, and was highly regarded for its systematic approach to finding out who the best team in the nation was. In fact, it was the only system at the time that took strength of schedule into account, and which we’ll find out later, may have played a large roll in its final selection. The AP poll was in its infancy, 5 years old to be exact, while Houlgate was on its 14th year of service. You can essentially compare this to the AP poll versus BCS debate of 5 years ago. The AP poll of that day was the opinion of 44, grossly uninformed writers who could only keep up with teams from around their general area (due to the overall lack of national coverage), which just happened to be the northeast for the most part.

Let’s look at it this way: Think of the high school football teams around you, whether it’s 5, 10, or more. Chances are, if you halfway keep up with the whole gamut of local games each weekend, or even read the final scores in the newspaper; you will come up with a list of about a third of those total teams that you think are good teams. However, with the lack of national high school football coverage, you have no idea how these teams that you deem “good” could square up against teams across the country. All you know is that Mountain Brook in Birmingham is 9-1, while the 6A state champion from Pennsylvania went 8-2. Not knowing anything about Penn high school football teams, you’re limited to looking at records to determine which of these teams is better. You may even look at the records of the teams they lost to in order to give you a better idea, but how much more inaccurate could this be? This was the life of an AP voter in the 40’s. They only knew their Big 8 schools, the military schools, Ivy League, and Notre Dame, and the rest of the nation was compared to them (thus NWestern finishing out at #11 with a 5-3 record). Therefore, other schools were essentially doomed to mediocrity after one loss or tie, especially if the loss or tie came against a team that was equally as unknown to these writers. Also, the poll was changing its makeup every year at that point to try to come up with the best system. At this time, they were still trying to get all the bugs out. Houlgate, however, took a mathematical approach, which saw each team as equals on a level playing field. I am sure it has its flaws as well, but it simply had to be better than the opinions of a handful of ill informed, geographically locked people who surely didn’t take this as seriously as we would like to believe they did today.

So, ultimately, I’m not saying that the AP was complete garbage and Houlgate was essentially the only way, I’m just trying to overcompensate for each to get people to realize that they were, at a minimum, on a level playing field, and that Houlgate deserves the same, if not more, respect as the AP poll of that time.

But Bama still had two losses:

Now it’s about to seem quite homerific if you’re on the outside looking in, but you have to understand that I’m just trying to take a look at what would make the Houlgate System pop out Bama as its NC, and why Bama would take it with a clear conscious.

One loss came at the hands of a one loss Mississippi State, 14-0. Mississippi State’s only loss that season was to an undefeated Duquesne, who Massey (the BCS Massey) has as his system’s national champion in his retro-ratings. The other loss came at the hands of an 8-2 Vanderbilt, which I’m sure was not the proudest of moments, but nothing to hang your head about. But still, with two losses, even to quality opponents, something still must lie under the surface to emerge over Minnesota and Texas.

A look at Texas:

First off, this team was voted NC by Williamson. They, however, do not consider this as one of their 4 national titles, as Williamson never really had much clout in determining a champion. Moreover, in all honesty, this season’s title was Texas’ to lose. After the first 6 games of the season, Texas had pitched three shutouts and given up more than a touchdown only once while playing arguably the nations toughest schedule at that point. But upon becoming the AP #1 team in the land going into game 7, pissing the bed was in order. In comes 3-3 (and eventual 3-6-1) Baylor who played the Longhorns to a 7-7 tie. The following week, Texas loses outright to a very decent (and eventual 7-3-1) TCU team, 14-7. That two week span was more than even a 23-0 whipping of the #2 Texas A&M team the following week could overcome for a southern team in an AP world. So was Bama better than Texas? Probably not, but Bama’s two losses combined didn’t look nearly as bad as Texas’ tie.

A look at Minnesota:

Reining national champions, undefeated season, they’ve got bias (for being national champs less than a year ago while playing the toughest schedule in the nation) on their side and they’ve won all their games, how could they not be national champs? Well, if you’re the AP, and you make a severe habit of only going by record, their golden (gophers). However, if you look at their opponents, you’ll soon realize it’s the one eyed paraplegic ruling a conference full of blind quadriplegics. You would be hard pressed to find a worse schedule for any national champion in history. I realize that you can only play your schedule, but if that’s the case, then why didn’t Duke or Duquesne get some undefeated love? Duke had more convincing wins than Minnesota, while Duquesne and Minnesota have relatively identical schedules strengths, according to Massey.

Alabama/Minnesota, side by side:

Record:

Minnesota: 8-0

Alabama: 9-2

Opponents’ Record (Teams played with winning records)

Minnesota: 31-35-1 (3)

Alabama: 69-23-2 (9)

Strength of Schedule (according to Massey’s retro-ratings):

Minnesota: 41 out of 119

Alabama: 5 out of 119

AP Ranked Teams Played (either ranked during week played or ranked in final AP poll)

Minnesota: 2

Alabama: 5

Teams Played Who Finished With 2 or Fewer Loses:

Minnesota: 1

Alabama: 7

Ok, I realize that I’m beating the “schedule/opponents” thing to death, but the difference is staggering. And based on my findings, a team’s record was the main tool to base rankings on in that day, so I am trying to take that a small step further to see why in the world this team was considered the best in the nation. I mean, it would seem to me that this team is one point away from tying a very mediocre Northwestern team and being essentially one of the many forgotten teams in college football history, but unfortunately, the exact reasonings and other intangibles are as lost as the sands of time.

Rankings, by design, are supposed to yield the best teams from top to bottom. Rarely does that feat hold true, but over time I believe the process has gotten better. Every system used to provide the task of determining the best has its flaws, nowadays it being evident that a one loss team will be ranked higher at the end of the year the earlier that loss comes. In yesteryear, the problem was the lack of national exposure for even the elite of college football teams, and those teams having a lot less “wiggle room” as far as losses and ties are concerned.

So the question in this case is: Which team is better? A team who can win 9 out of 11 games amid the nation’s toughest schedules, while having 2 down weeks due to injury or simply not being game ready (e.g. Bama, Mississippi State, Texas)? Or is it the team who can win all 8 games, while only having to exert themselves once or twice in the midst of powering through the remainder of a schedule that can only be described as insufficient (by any standards)? The answer to this question will directly support or refute the claim that Alabama is deserving of at least a share of this national title. The choice is solely yours on a personal level, however, if you chose the latter, Utah’s got a question for you? WTF!?!

Just got banned from TET...

TopDaddy — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:37:04 -0000

...for calling Jay out on comments such as the one professing that Bama is the most corrupt program in NCAA football history behind SMU. I merely told him the facts: that Auburn has 5 major infractions stemming from football (2nd all time behind SMU), while Bama now has 4. I even did the math for him and posed a simple question: since 5 > 4, what does that make Auburn? I may have added something additional about Auburn also leading the category of "Most National Championships While on Probation", and how any Auburn fan could call Bama's program corrupt is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.

He then deleted this post, to which I reposted, only to find my repost redeleted. I then reposted a third time with the explaination that he was simply being held accountible for posting vomit on his main page, and now he chooses to take his ball and go home instead of facing the music?

I know how some of you feel about that site, but I actually enjoyed going over there and engaging in some decent discussion from time to time. They have their guys who do nothing but bash, as any site does, but a select few were very intellegent and could think outside the box for the sake of discussion, which I greatly appreciate (Todd82, WEA, Gump). But because a site director gets called out and proven wrong for posting absolute nonsense, he feels the need to ban me, which granted, I told him to do if he planned on deleting my post for the third time, simply stating that if he did, I was going to make an absolute fool of him in his own front yard if I had the capability to continue posting.

Now, I'm not going to tell anyone not to go over there, as you are all big boys and girls, but if you enjoy going over there, then for the sake of the children, please do not counter Jay's uniformed, ignorant rants with hard facts that prove him to be an idiot. He doesn't like being held accountible for his actions. He has some issues he needs to work out, so it may be best to leave him alone for a while.

Have a good one, and Roll Tide!

Yet Another Kiffin Ordeal

TopDaddy — Fri, 22 May 2009 15:06:10 -0000

Yet Another Kiffin Ordeal

Kiffin and his Strength and Conditioning Coach, Mark Smith (who was one of his first hires) agree to part ways...

What Has Scheduling Games in ATL Done for Recruiting?

TopDaddy — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:50:04 -0000

ed.- bumped from the fanposts.

This is partly for my own bookkeeping, and partly to show what Saban scheduling these big games has done thus far. Talk about thinking outside the box, using OOC games for recruiting purposes is one of the best ideas I've heard of. Now, these are a list of players that I believe (someone prove me wrong if need be) chose Bama, or came close to doing so, simply because of Saban's desire to play big OOC games in ATL:

Michael Bowman; 4 star WR; Rossville, GA - Rossville isn't incredibly close to ATL, however, it is in GA and he did commit 2 weeks after the Clemson game. Makes sense.

Jonathan Atchison; 3 star LB; Atlanta, GA - He committed mid-December,and I think that he, much like the other guys, liked the prospect of being able to play in front of a hometown crowd against VT in Atlanta and hopefully other big games throughout his college career at that venue.

Darius McKeller; 3 star OL; Jonesboro, GA - Committed prior to the '08 season, but same goes with him as did Atchison, IMO.

Chance Warmack; 3 star OL; Atlanta, GA - Same as above.

Kellen Williams; 3 star OL; Snellville, GA - Same as above.

Darren Myles; 4 star DB; Atlanta, GA - Obviously didn't commit to Bama, but we were up front down the backstretch, and even his dad thought he was going to Bama until he actually signed.

Branden Smith; 5 star DB; Atlanta, GA - Also didn't commit to Bama, but we had just as good of a chance, if not better, than most through December.

I mention Myles and Smith because none of our recent coaching staffs would have gotten a second look from these guys, and we almost had Myles. No sour grapes here, just pointing out that kids like them were not options in the past 20 years until now.

I really think this is just the tip of the iceburg as far as what these games and a little extra recruiting in this area is going to do to expand Bama's recruiting area. There's a ton of talent here, and it appears that Saban is staking his claim to just as much of this area as Richt and Meyer. This is why Saban is...

Please add if you have additional info, or if you think I'm full of it, and you're not a troll, let me know why.

Just to drive the point home...

TopDaddy — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:15:45 -0000

Just to drive the point home...

This is a pictured list of the top recruiting classes since 2000, and guess who's pictured in the last two? Interesting to see who made up some of the top classes, and whether or not it panned out...

Question for those smarter than me...

TopDaddy — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 22:23:56 -0000

We just landed an amazing recruiting class, possibly and probably better than last years. My only concern is that we just had 27, or so, guys sign LOI to play ball with Bama this coming up season, and we only have 11 sho' nuff spots open. I know there will be acedemic casualites and such, but there's gonna have to be some major shifting and moving in order to get this square peg to fit in that circle. If someone has a somewhat laid out plan for how this may work, please let me know, because it's kinda concerning at this point. I mean, we were worried about oversigning by 8 spots last year, and now we've got double that...

Roll Tide!

ESPN College Football Program Prestige Rankings

TopDaddy — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:56:11 -0000

ESPN College Football Program Prestige Rankings

Some folks at ESPN have ranked all current 119 college football teams. Yesterday, they revealed 21-119, and today they revealed 16-20. They will continue throughout the week. They also did this ranking strictly by formula, not opinion, so that makes it all the more fun. Along the right side of the page, you'll be able to follow the countdown to #1, as well as read about the ranking formula. Note who is in dead last, and who has already been revealed in Day 1 (i.e. #21)

I need New Year's Eve plans.

TopDaddy — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 22:25:59 -0000

Because I'm about as unoriginal as they come and this will be the first year (in 3 years, anyway) that the wife and I get to have some fun without the little girl. In that time, I have lost all originality as to how to have fun, and do stuff that intices recreation. I realize that y'all don't know where I live and therefore can't tell me exactly what to do, so just throw your plans on this here thread and I'll steal from your collective plethora of originality and fun having capabilities. And if you're going to New Orleans for the bowl game or just to hang out, you may feel free to post your plans as well, as this is an equal opportunity thread, however, I will, BY NO MEANS, be headed to N.O. I am about 2 hours from there, but it is going to be a cess pool of retards, and I'd rather avoid it at all costs. Post away, and thanks for the input.

Why Bama will win the SEC Championship

TopDaddy — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 15:28:42 -0000

Mark Schlabach tells us why he thinks that Alabama will beat Florida on Saturday. Although he does allude to the fact that Harvin may be out, he fails to mention that Florida may also be without two of its defensive line starters, as mentioned in this article by CBSSports:

GAINESVILLE, Fla. -- No. 2 Florida could be without two defensive linemen against top-ranked Alabama in the Southeastern Conference Championship Game Saturday.
Matt Patchan has a torn medial collateral ligament in his left knee, defensive line coach Dan McCarney said Sunday night, and the freshman won't play again this season. Patchan won't have surgery, but probably won't return until after spring practice.
Patchan, who has seven tackles and 1½ sacks in 10 games this season, hurt his knee last weekend against The Citadel.
Defensive tackle Brandon Antwine, who missed the first five games of the season while recovering from back surgery, sprained a knee in the second half Saturday at Florida State. Coach Urban Meyer said Antwine is "probably doubtful" against the Crimson Tide.
"He's not moving around at all," Meyer said.
The good news for Florida is Lawrence Marsh, the player Antwine replaced in the starting lineup against the Seminoles, should be full-go Saturday.
"He was 70 percent (against FSU)," Meyer said. "He'll be 100 percent (against Alabama)."
Marsh, a sophomore defensive tackle who started the first 11 games, has 21 tackles and three sacks this season. He sprained the MCL in his left knee on the first play against The Citadel.

Another point of note: Don't put too much into Florida's 44.2 points per game. Although impressive, that average comes from playing little better than average defenses. Florida's schedule boasts an average defensive ranking of 46 out of 120. Now this is nothing to turn your nose up at, but when you are the AP #2 team in the nation who runs an effective spread offense, coupled with the speed they possess, this outcome should be commonplace. Lastly, the best defense (statistically) that Florida has seen to date is non other than Ole Miss, and I believe we all know the outcome of that.

This is Big Boy football, ladies and gentlemen. We should expect nothing less in the SEC Championship than the best two teams in the nation battling it out. And in my opinion, this is THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP GAME. ROLL TIDE!

Bye Week News...

TopDaddy — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 17:25:27 -0000

In other news not concerning our beloved Tide:

*In Ann Arbor, there seems to be a mass exodus out of the University of Michigan. Not good news if you cheer for the Wolverines. This leaving trend includes the leading rusher thus far this season, and a linebacker out of their already thin LB corps.

There will be significant attrition this offseason. The first to fall:

In today’s weekly Big Ten teleconference, Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez said sophomore Zion Babb was no longer with the team. Rodriguez said the wide receiver hasn’t been with the team since Sunday.

So… yeah. I was sitting on this until I had some outside confirmation and this serves as outside confirmation since three guys were mentioned as a group of players who had already made their decisions. The other two who have told the coaches they are out: sophomore LB/S Artis Chambers and Sam McGuffie.

EVERYBODY PANIC.

Okay. Done panicking? Some context for this information:

How solid is it? Very solid. Three sources very close to the situation.

How official is it? It is not official until it is official. Earlier this year I said freshman RB Mike Cox was transferring based on equally solid info, but Cox reversed course and decided to stick out the year. Until someone actually enrolls somewhere else there is always the chance for a reconciliation.

Is this the end of it? No. The rumors are flying fast and furious about a couple guys buried on the depth chart; I don't have confirmation on anyone else and at this point I think they're still on the fence.

*In College Station, they are receiving pointers on how to accept being the worst team in the Big XII South. This coming from people who would know: Baylor Fans (I realize it's long, but it's pretty funny):

I wanted to share some thoughts from the hit book "How to Handle Being The Worst Team in the Big XII South". This book, originally authored by fans of Baylor University, with foreword by Oklahoma State, has been a work in progress for 25 something years now.

Now that we have handed that prestigious torch off to your school, and it looks like it will stay that way for quite some time, you and your Aggie friends may want to really get into this material. Here are some highlights:

Chapter 1 - Bring up past records when discussing your program with friends. The best way to do this is to start from the present and go back through the past until you can find where you have more wins than "x" team. Inconsistencies in time frame does not matter - it can be 5 years for one team and 45 for another.

Chapter 3 - Find other parts of your athletic program that you can be proud of and meticulously learn and promote their accomplishments, no matter how embarrassing the sport. Baylor has done this recently with women's basketball, tennis, and most notably, track and field (Olympic gold medalist anyone?). Rumor has it that your men's club lacrosse team is pretty awesome. Just throwing that out there.

Chapter 5 - Find a couple of solid scapegoats and complain tirelessly about them. Your fan base has already advanced far in this area, with "Shermione" and "$Bill" taking the brunt of this effective relaxation technique.

Chapter 10 - Pick a team to hate and root for their failure. For Baylor fans, this has been you, and look how well it's worked! It's like The Secret - the power of positive thinking. It's very refreshing to change the channel from a frustrating loss and watch your sworn enemy fail. You may have to really dig deep here - you want a team that is average to pretty bad. You losing and them winning is a double whammy, so don't set your sites too high (UT/Tech). Arkansas is a good start, they're down this year.

Chapter 11 (THIS IS A BIG ONE) - Focus on moral victories. This chapter has a lot of content, so really pay attention to it. Within the umbrella of the moral victories chapter you'll find subsections such as: a) Don't pin your hopes on winning the game, pin your hopes on covering the spread. The spread is key, and beating the spread will bring you years and years of joy. b) Get excited about first downs. These may be harder to come by than you think, so really cherish them. c) Find remote stats that can highlight your improvement. Really dig into improvement. This should be a buzzword to use in the coming years.

Chapter 12 - Talk about the other redeeming qualities of your school. This is tricky, because it's actually really dorky to engage in academic smack talk, but, if done correctly, can deflect the focus of a conversation away from your school's crappy football program and onto other areas where the playing field is more level. Now, I'm tailor making this to A&M a little here, but I would recommend you focus on your strong engineering and business school reputation, and don't forget to bring up your various traditions! People never get tired of hearing about this.

Chapter 14** - Find another school to support on the side. This chapter is very controversial and was only added in later editions. I myself never went down this road, but several of my friends found a great deal of relaxation and comfort in finding a side school. While immediate family connections are the best (father graduated from Penn State or mom and dad met at Florida), it is also valid to dig deep into your family's history to find that great aunt that went to Alabama or that second cousin who got a masters at USC. The further away the school, the better. Claim that you have been watching them for years, especially as a little kid growing up. This helps ward off eye rolls and front-runner accusations from your friends. **Note: though highly successful, this chapter can be very dangerous, and is probably the only method that will incur hatred from fellow alumni and students. Use Chapter 14 at your own risk. Advanced students only. I'd say you'll be there en mass around 2013, although seeing how your fan base is bailing after 3 losing seasons out of the past 24, you may be there as early as 2010. Talk about advanced students!

That's it folks. I'll send you a copy for free - we're so excited to share this with a team not named Baylor. And you may read this and think: "Wow, Baylor is pathetic. This is really sad stuff." No, no! This is you! This WAS Baylor and now IS your school! I'm talking about what you and your fan base will be and have already started saying and doing.

I want to leave you with this. This can be your chance to practice, right now. Skim some of the material above, and go ahead and start using it on me. I would say the record route is the obvious way to go, but don't be afraid to be creative. Angry phrases like "F off" and total dismissal of my thread also work. Have fun, and I'll critique some of your responses as we go . . .

*In the ACC, there are 8 teams (if my math is correct, but I didn't put a whole lot of time into it) that are mathematically still in the hunt for the ACC Championship. Some dub it a result of the ACC being the most competative conference, I say they all just suck that bad.

*In Nashville, the Commodores are getting ready for a bowl game. They realized soon after preparations began that they had no idea how to do that...

It is not the apocalypse. It is not the end of days. It may have something to do with the global recession, but that probably just a coincidence. Vanderbilt got that elusive sixth win with a 31-24 win over Kentucky to become bowl eligible.

For the first time since 1982, Vandy will finish with a .500 or better record. They will finish no worse than 4-4 in the SEC this year. They will have their first crack at going to a a bowl game since the 1982 Hall of Fame Bowl (the Commodores lost to Air Force).

Vanderbilt did it much like they did when they started the season 5-0. They ran the ball (44 carries for 228 yards) and controlled the clock (almost 40 minutes on offense). When they did throw, it was short and not particularly pretty (15-27, 156 yards). It worked well enough, and Vandy held on for the win.

*On the Plains, Auburn's best receiving threat has his season cut short:

AUBURN, Ala. (AP) -- Auburn tight end Tommy Trott has sustained a torn knee ligament.

Coach Tommy Tuberville said Trott will have surgery Thursday, becoming the latest casualty for the hard-hit Tigers.

Trott is Auburn's third-leading receiver with 20 catches for 201 yards. He sustained a torn anterior cruciate ligament against Georgia.

Gabe McKenzie moved back from defensive end to replace him. McKenzie had spent the past two seasons at tight end.