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cyph

Jun 20, 2008 Feb 15, 2012 11 2362

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Bloody Elbow Fedor VS Werdum: A Historic Night in Pictures

I've been to a couple UFC events and a quite a few Strikeforce events in San Jose. I have to admit this, UFC events have better talent but Strikeforce events are more fun. We saw Nate Diaz, John Fitch, and Cain Valasquez in our section. Fitch was sitting alone for awhile for most of the event until Cain and his girlfriend (?) came by for the main events. Surprisingly, Nate was a good sport and took as many pictures as possible with fans. We were the first to ask Valasquez for pictures during the break and then everyone else did too. Fitch seemed like he was only enjoying the Thompson fight. The rest of the time he was twittering on his phone.

 

Strikeforce1_medium

via img690.imageshack.us

Full Size: http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4883/strikeforce1.jpg

Our friends had ring side seats and the behind the cage view of the short but historic fight that will most likely change the MMA landscape. I truly enjoyed Strikeforce, but  wonder if this could be the nail in the coffin for them. Could Coker get any unluckier? Dan Henderson lost and now Fedor lost. There goes the PPV. Well, at least the fans and Dana White was happy last night.

 

Strikeforce_medium

via img576.imageshack.us

Full Image: http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/254/strikeforce.jpg

And now, the entire fight ring side:

 

We were all cheering for Fedor before and during the fight and the crowd was very pro-Fedor. They chanted Fedor, Fedor, Fedor! There was a huge Fedor section with Russian banners there and various red Clinch Gear reds all over the arena. When the tap occurred, it was pandemonium. The Russian section was in utter shock. If you freeze frame the video, you can probably see their dead silence. We cheered for Fedor to win, but secretly we all wanted to see him lose. It happened last night. And we were there to witness it.

 


 

 

 


 


 


6 comments  |  2 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Myth: Heavyweight is the Weakest Division

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via www.jenn98.com

There is this myth often repeated by fans as if it was an actual accepted universal truth. Nothing is further from it.. Currently, the heavyweight division, inside and outside the UFC is the best and most exciting division in all of MMA. Take this lineup, for example:

Non-UFC UFC
Fedor Lesnar
Overeem Carwin
Werdum Valasquez
Barnett Mir
Arlovski JDS
Antonio Silva Nog
Aleks Emelienenko Gonzaga
Monson CroCop

 

What other division out there has just a solid lineup inside and out of the UFC? Additionally, what other divisions out there has the 2nd, 3rd, 4th guy in the division with the ability to beat the champion? At least in the UFC, Carwin, Valasquez and JDS all have the potential to beat Lesnar. On the other side, Overeem has a very good chance of dethroning the unbeatable Fedor. Even if it doesn't happen, these potential fights will sure to be competitive and exciting until the inevitable submission or KO. In the heavyweight division, competitive fights tend to end inside of one or two rounds.

The heavyweight division has more "named guys" than any other division. Where else can you find a guy who hasn't lost in ten years? What other division has the biggest PPV draw in MMA? What other division has a mixture of K-1 level strikers, Jujitsu wizards and several NCAA wrestling champs or near champs all in the mix?

Compare this division with the LHW division where there's been a carousel of champions, albeit with some extremely talented fighters. Even though there are just as many talented guys in the division, it's hard to say that the division is more exciting or have better up and coming fighters than the heavyweight division. There isn't a top LHW fighter outside of the UFC, and the ones who are in the UFC are fairly dominant. When we move to middleweight, welterweight, and lightweight divisions, the heavyweight division fare much better. Who is there to challenge Anderson Silva? Welterweight? Other than Koscheck, there really isn't anybody there to challenge GSP. Lightweight? The current champion notwithstanding, there isn't that many challengers for the top spot either, and  the talent falls precipitously after the first 4 spots.

The often mentioned weakest and least skilled division is nothing more than that--a myth, perpetrated by fans who can only regurgitate old and stale information. They will claim that these fighters record is pretty slim; while that's true, it's really about quality not quantity. A guy who's 10-1 is likely a far better fighter than one that's 30-15. Not only that, but every guy is either a KO artist, a submission specialist, a GnP machine or a combination of these skills. Most of their wins are in one way or another, violent and conclusive--something that can't be said for most other divisions.

I think it's time we drop this notion that the heavyweight division is the least talented. It may be true 2-3 years ago, but the current state of the division shows that it's one of the best if not the best division in all of MMA. Heavyweight has always been the money division, and its now more true than ever.

72 comments  | 

Bloody Elbow Fedor and Brock: A Tale of Two Fighters

 

From reading Sergio Non and Josh Rossen analysis of Brock Lesnar, you'd think that being 4-1 is somehow indicative of how unprepared Brock Lesnar will be in a fight against Fedor. To me, his record is indicative of what a phenom he is really is and how dominant he is as a heavyweight in MMA. But don't take my words for it, let me lay out the parallels of the two great fighters in their early career.

Fight #BrockOpp Rec FedorOpp Rec
1 Min Soo Kim (W)
3-6 Martin Lazarov (W)
0-2
2 Frank Mir (L)
12-4 Levon Lagvilava (W)
0-2
3 Heath Herring (W) 28-14 Hiroya Takada (W)
0-3
4 Randy Couture (W)
16-9 Ricardo Arona (W)
13-5
5 Frank Mir (W) 12-4 Tsuyoshi Kohsaka (L)
26-18-2

 

The Fedor supporters (or Brock detractors, take your pick) will drag out the fact that Brock's first opponent was a can at 3-6. However, they never mention that Fedor's first opponent was 0-2.

In his second fight, Brock asked to fight a contender. In this fight, he lost. The detractors will bring out the fact that he lost to Frank Mir in his second match, a former UFC heavyweight champion as if this is indicative of Brock's skills. It doesn't matter that he dominated Mir for two whole minutes and just got "caught."  Everyone loses in MMA, especially when you're fighting the top of the totem pole every single time. However, a loss is a loss.

In his third fight, he defeated a veteran in Heath Herring at 28-14. Fedor fought Takada who was 0-3. The Fedor supporters will bring up the fact that Heath is a middle of the road fighter. He is that, but he is also a much better fighter than when he fought Fedor. This was a guy who almost knocked out Nogueira in his UFC fight (no built-in excuse this time as Nogueira ended up winning). Versus Fedor, Herring lost by cut to Fedor after a 10 minute fight. This was Fedor's 13th fight, right before he won the belt from Nogueira.  See the parallels?

In his fourth fight, Brock won the belt from Randy Couture, a UFC champ. The detractors will bring up the fact that Randy is an old man. However, most experts predicted Randy would win this fight. Why would they pick an old over the hill fighter to win, never mind that he was the current belt holder at that time? Fedor fought Ricardo Arona, a light heavyweight to a decision in his fourth fight. Many thought that Arona should have won this fight. However, a loss is a loss, so we won't rewrite history.

In the fifth fight, Brock fought former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir again, this time dominating him from beginning to end. This is where we see the pure brilliance of his abilities. He controlled Mir, a 250lbs jujitsu black belt in a way no one has done before. Mir could not transition out of Brock's hold. Not only did Brock avenge his first and only loss, he did it in devastating fashion. Mir, if you remember, was also the guy who knocked out Nogueira for the first time ever. The detractors will bring up the excuse that Nogueira was "injured." How many times have fighters pulled out due to injuries? Why was it that Nogueira decided in this case that he will fight against a former champ for the interim belt while injured? Was he stupid or just crazy? Neither. (1) His injury was not bad enough since in his own words he thought he could still win (if you couldn't walk due to staph infection, why would you think you could win?), and (2) he has a built-in excuse in case of a loss. A win is a win and anything else is just an excuse.

Fedor lost his fifth fight by cut to a guy with a similar record to Heath Herring. The Fedor defenders will bring up the fact that this wasn't really a loss. How could this be? Under the unified rules, when a fighter is unable to continue due to a cut, it is considered a loss. In the tournament, this was also the rule. A loss is a loss, a win is a win, and the rules are the rules.

Fedor and Brock have similar records in their first five fights. Each had one loss each. Fedor fought 4 cans and one journeyman. Brock fought one can, two UFC champs, avenged his only loss, and defended the belt once. He improved dramatically from one fight to the other.

The hatred for Brock in the MMA community is amazing. The Fedor supporters like Jake Rossen will use his first five fights as somehow a liability for Brock while dismissing Fedor's padded record as a plus. Furthermore, people are even demanding that the heavyweight division be split in two because Brock is too dominant. How come nobody clamored for a new division when a former, unpopular champ in Tim Sylvia had to cut weight to hit 265 as well?

Now, with a chance to prove his worth with a 3-6 million per fight deal in the UFC, Fedor turned it down. Many of his supporters will argue that it's not about money. When people claim it's not about money, it's always about money. M-1's sole product is Fedor. Fedor's biggest selling point is his aura of invincibility. If Fedor walks through Brock, he would be richer by millions, still be able to fund his M-1 expansion and retain his aura of invincibility while helping M-1 grow through the marketing and popularity of the UFC machine. But what if he loses? Without Fedor, what would be left of M-1? M-1 would be left with damaged goods and the Fedor brand destroyed. This cannot happen. They turned down big money in the short term to protect M-1 and Fedor in the long term. Money makes the world go around and all business decisions revolve around money.

It's a shame that there are such divisions in the MMA world. The pro-UFC camp and the anti-UFC camp, both in fandom and the media. For the latter camp, Fedor is their last great hope against the hegemony of the UFC. For that reason, Fedor and Brock must never meet in combat. They will go out of their ways to turn down big money... or perhaps even split the heavyweight division.

76 comments  |  11 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Fedor: Propaganda War

Let's deconstruct the he said she said, shall we?

“I can say that the guaranteed -- and the word ‘guaranteed’ is of great importance here -- the guaranteed offer made by the UFC is less than what Fedor made before,” Raimond said. “The five-million (per fight) is way, way, way out of range. Half of that is even way out of range of what they offered.”


Raimond did not refute the figure at all. He refutes that the "guaranteed" is less than what Fedor made before but he didn't even state what that figure was! Since the contract has a PPV percentage stipulation, and the UFC is all but guaranteed to sell at least 500k-1000k buys, shouldn't the "guaranteed" portion include the minimum PPV percentage as well?

Raimond was not present at the meeting that took place between UFC and M-1 management in Los Angeles earlier this week, but he said he was debriefed shortly afterward. M-1 and UFC officials, including president Dana White, reconvened the next day via teleconference call, where M-1 presented a counteroffer that included co-promotion. No written contact was ever presented.

Wait, so you mean Raimond is not even privy to the discussion? He's getting second hand news from the Fink himself? Could it be possible that a contract was faxed to M-1 the night Carmichael reported the news?

Raimond confirmed that M-1 Global had been presented with the possibility to receive a cut of pay-per-view profits in addition to Emelianenko’s guaranteed pay, but he said no other profit-sharing incentives were presented.

This does not contradict the Carmichael report. M-1 global receiving a cut of PPV was part of what he reported.

Here is Carmichael's response:

"I of course would never report ANYTHING without a credible source.

Not someone standing at the door. Not another website. A SOLID, TRUSTWORTHY, CREDIBLE source.

This is a ton of propoganda from both sides. Is M1 wrong? Who knows? I know what I was told, double checked it, triple checked it, and wrote it. I said on my show last night that the entire picture isnt clear, and there were I'm sure several different other parts of the offer that werent reported on.

There are always two sides of the story. My job isnt to decide who's right, lying, exaggerating, etc. I did not write an opinion piece. I got a leak from a credible source, and I reported what I was told. The rest is up to the public. I'm sure there will be much more in the next few hours, days, etc. But I absolutely stand by what I was told, considering the source.

I should also add that Snowden's claims to be a neutral observer is anything but. He disputes the Carmichael report as false while taking M-1's side as gospel. Why is it that when someone reports information from the UFC, they are called shills, but guys like Snowden and Sherdog/MMAWeekly get a pass for reporting information passed on by M-1? No one is vetting information from the other side.They are all mouth pieces. Public opinion is very much a part of the negotiations here. In chess, there are pawns from both sides of the board. People may be used unwittingly even if they think they're not. There is no neutrality in this war of words. The truth is really the victim here. It wouldn't surprise me that both sides are spewing lies and propaganda with the truth sandwiched somewhere in between.

10 comments  |  3 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Fedor: Checkmate

5 million per fight, 30 over 6. That is a lot of money. However, M-1 and Fedor won't take it. Why? The reason is that M-1 global has spent millions trying to build their brand. They have the M-1 Challenge series as well a new reality TV show "Fighting Fedor" on the way. Where will their revenues come from now that Affliction is gone? Affliction has been footing the bill the past few years, but now that Affliction is gone, they need another company, a company with deep pockets and great exposure. Enter the UFC.

Co-promotion with the UFC will help fund M-1 in their expansion projects and their quest to build a brand that rivals the UFC. However, the biggest benefit with UFC co-promotion is the exposure to the US market as well as worldwide. The co-promotion with the UFC will instantly put M-1 on the map with casual fans. This is why Fedor and M-1 will refuse the 30 million contract. M-1 needs the UFC to survive. Fedor is part owner of M-1 and he has put much of his money in this venture. Without co-promotion, M-1 will die as they wither away bleeding money slowly.

Most fans think Fedor doesn't that know he's being used by M-1's Finkelstein. Fedor is a guy who plays chess in his spare time. This man is no mental midget nor is he Mike Tyson. The man is not an imbecile. Fedor knows what he's doing and he knows every move M-1 is playing. This is the endgame for him and M-1. Without co-promotion, the millions Fedor has plowed into M-1 will be for naught. This is why he's gambling away his 30 million contract for a chance at saving his beloved company.

Unfortunately, he's miscalculated. He's miscalculated his worth. He may be considered the #1 heavyweight fighter in the world, but he is but one fighter in one weight class. There are four other champions in the other weight classes who are as popular or even more than he. Without Fedor, the UFC will go on. Without the UFC, Fedor will have nothing except the shell game of M-1.

The best thing for the UFC to do now is walk away. They should wait until M-1 crumble under its own ambition for world expansion and catch Fedor when co-promotion is off the table; no M-1 means no co-promotion. Fedor has played his last gambit out of desperation, but he's massively miscalculated this time; he's sacrificed his queen only to be checkmated in two.

42 comments  |  5 recs | 

Bloody Elbow 2008: The Year the MMA World Turned Upside Down


Here are my random thoughts for 2008.

Alistair_medium

1. All we hold dear and sacred should be thrown out the window. Iron chin is now glass chin. Undefeated is now defeated. K-1 caliber striker is now MMA caliber. The two most iron-chinned fighters in MMA, Mark Hunt and Nogueira were both knocked out for the first time in their lives. All three K-1 fighters were beaten at their own game by MMA fighters. Who would have thunk it?

2. It's a sport so don't force things. One, you don't force stars on the public. Two, you don't make matches that you're not sure you have contingency plans for. Exhibit A: Kimbo Slice. Exhibit B: K-1 and EliteXC. If you're going to put your fighters on display and prove how good they are, you better be sure they win. If not, make sure the other fighters are (1) locked up contractually and (2) marketable. Otherwise, you just make your organization look stupid and amateurish, or worse, bankrupt. As for K-1, they just hurt their credibility to have their own fighters beaten at their own game. When one fighter loses, it's a fluke. When both lose, it's a trend. K-1 level striking isn't what it used to be.

3. Freakshow. Bob Sapp VS Cartoon character? What? The Japanese have not evolved much past the good old days of Pride. At this rate, don't be surprised if Zuffa invades Japan in 2009.

4. My fighter of the year? No, it's not Anderson Silva nor is it Brock Lesnar. The fighter of the year has been undefeated in 2008, won the Strikeforce heavyweight belt, demolished Mirko CroCop in a no-contest match that he otherwise would have won anyway, and then destroyed Badr Hari, a K-1 heavyweight champion in a K-1 rules match. He's none other than Alistair Overeem. Overeem has always had the physical talent but has never dedicated himself before, gassing out early and has shown no heart in tough fights. The new demolition man is living up to his namesake by demolishing everyone in his wake. Zuffa, sign this man!

5. This last one is a rant. Why is it that reputable MMA sites pride themselves on objectivity on news reporting but when it comes to ranking, they throw that objectivity right out the window? Ranking should be as objective as possible even if it's highly subjective. Fighters who beat ranked fighters should be moved up. Fighters who beat unranked fighters should not be moved up. Fighters who lose to ranked fighters should not have their stock hurt unless the fighter they lost to is below them. Josh Barnett is a guy who moved up in ranking because the guy above him lost to another ranked fighter. This is a guy who hasn't fought a ranked fighter in two years. The last fighter he lost to (Nogueira) is now ranked below him because that fighter has fought consistently top competition. Does this make sense? This type of ranking encourage fighters to duck top competition. This is just Sherdog's ranking which I think is very respectible and objective. I hestitate to even discuss MMAWeekly's ranking because it is so fanboyish that it shouldn't even be mentioned. CroCop is still ranked #9, above Brock Lesnar of all people, while Randy Couture is ranked 4 slots above him. Overeem is no where to be found on the list while Barnett is ranked #2. I rest my case.

 

 

 

29 comments  |  6 recs | 

Bloody Elbow An Ultimate 2008 Retrospective

2008 MMA has almost come to a close with one of the better UFC's in a while. As a matter of fact, the most recent UFC's have been extremely entertaining. The unpredictability of MMA and the destructive force of one well placed much is never more apparent than watching the results of UFC 92 unfold.

What can we reflect on this?

1. The modern MMA game has evolved tremendously in the last few years. Real athletes are coming in as evidenced by the great NCAA wrestlers of the current era. People assume that wrestling is a great base for MMA, the reason for why wrestlers are making huge waves in MMA today. However, that is only partly true. It has less to do with wrestling as a great base (but it is that) but more to do with great athletes than anything. Before Lesnar, Evans, and Dollaway are great wrestlers, but they are great athletes first. People wonder what would happen to the MMA game if great athletes choose MMA instead of the other sports. We are seeing the results of that unfold before our very eyes right now.

2. Old superstars are falling by the wayside as new superstars are replacing them at a much faster clip. MMA fans are unable to reconcile the losses of their cherished athletes. Already, many fans are asking for Nogueira to retire because he just doesn't have it any longer. These fans need to wake up and realize that modern MMA has supplanted the MMA of the past era. Can I say for a fact that Nog didn't lose anything since his transition from Pride? No, but that ass kicking of last night was more the result of a better fighter defeating him than of Nogueira losing anything significant. This brings me to the next reflection.

3. Nogueira, who supposedly had an iron chin and is one of the legends of the sport, has never looked good in the UFC. He was taken apart by Sylvia (of all people) in the standup, nearly knocked out by Herring, and then systematically dismantled and KO'ed by Frank Mir for the first time in his life. Did he really lose his ability at 32 or has the MMA game evolved much faster than he has? I choose the latter. I would also suggest that Pride was complicit in creating a facade of supermen by their behind the scene antics, unfair yellow card system, and biased refereeinh. Look no further than Silva, Noguiera, Shogun, CroCop as exhibits A, B, C, and D as fighters unable to cope with the modern era.The Pride defenders will try to bring up Rampage and Anderson Silva to refute this. However, Rampage were disadvantaged by the "the man" but blossomed once the playing field was leveled. Silva was just a blip on the radar back then but he's unquestionably is a different fighter today than before. I'll stop now before I turn this into a tirade against Pride which is not my intention.

4. The myth of the weak  heavyweight division should be thrown away and never mentioned again. Many current heavyweight fighters are unfairly left low on the yotem pole because of the notion that old veterans who have ceased to fight legitimate oppositions get to cling on to the high ranking because of their past fights. As we already learn, the quickly evolving MMA game today cannot be compared to the MMA game of 4 years ago. Fedor deserves his #1 spot until he is beaten because he's earned it. However, the rest of the heavyweight ranking needs a serious reshuffle. Unbeatable and iron chin doesn't mean as much today as it used to.

In 2009, we should get rid of our old prejudices and preconceived notions. No fighter is unbeatable. The great legends of tomorrow is already in the making. We should be ready to embrace change because the young fighters of today are already supplanting the legends of yesterday. We should get used to expecting the unexpected and enjoy a great 2009.

Happy New Year everyone!

58 comments  |  6 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Phillipe Nover: the most talented fighter lost.

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Some of you may call question me for stating this non-obvious fact after he got dominated for two rounds last night. But hold your venom and hear me out.

Phillipe Nover will end up as the better fighter in the long run. This is one loss that will help define his career. Nover was clearly the better striker last night and it would take the most ardently anti-Nover guy to say otherwise. Efrain wanted nothing to do with him standing up and opted to take him down every time. Yet, Nover was never in danger of being submitted. He took several vicious shots to the face from his back but never faltered. Instead, he fought and defended well, but mostly from his back.

The third round rubber guard and near omaplata and gogoplata was BJ Penn-esque. The fact that his strongest round was the third after he got worned out by a better wrestler in Efrain the previous two rounds speaks positively of his cardio and heart. Lesser men have faltered from the grind of being in the guard far too long. Rewind to the Johnson-Burns fight, or go further back to the CroCop-Gonzaga fight for a reminder of what a brilliant tactic that is against strikers.

With the praise out of the way, we must still come to the realization that Nover lost--unanimously. His opponent fought a smart but boring fight, forcing Nover out of his element. There is one obvious glaring hole in Nover's game and that is his awful take down defense. Nover needs to call up Thiago Alves and ask him how to defend the takedown. Great strikers need great takedown defense...period.

Nover should switch to a real MMA camp. His camp did not prepare him for the obvious--strike hard where your opponent is weakest. Efrain's strength is his wrestling and the ground game is his domain. Contrast that with Nover's strength which is his striking. Did his camp not that know he is weak in wrestling? Anyone who watched last night fight already knows the obvious. How could his camp miss such details? Did his camp not realize that Efrain would rather take Nover to the ground since he's the superior wrestler? Where was the take down defense? From the ease of Efrain's take down, Nover did not train for that eventuality at all.

Nover came in with no game plan. Efrain executed his to perfection. Was it arrogance or stupidity on Nover's part? Nevertheless, Nover almost managed to derail Efrain's simple gameplan by reversing Efrain many times from the back, got up time and time again after being taken down continuously, and then managed to take the third round. Efrain was clearly slowing down by the third but by then it was too little too late.

Efrain is an absolutely talented fighter and will be one of the premiere MMA fighter in the lightweight division. He has terrific wrestling, killer takedowns, and awesome submissions. No one can argue that he did not win last night. And yet, I can't help but think that the more talented guy lost.

21 comments  |  2 recs | 

Bloody Elbow Alves must fight Swick before title shot?

That is what the Baltimore Sun reports.

Thiago-alves_medium

via www.cagetoday.com

Other cool nuggets:


* Diego Sanchez has officially moved down to lightweight.

* Rich Franklin is officially staying at light heavyweight.

* The winner of Franklin vs. Dan Henderson will be the coach for The Ultimate Fighter: Season 9 with Michael Bisping.

* B.J. Penn will not be allowed to move up to middleweight, even if he beats Georges St. Pierre. GSP will be fighting Thiago Alves (if GSP beats Penn) before getting a chance at a superfight with Anderson Silva.

* Mike Swick will probably fight Thiago Alves before Alves is given a title shot at welterweight. That was the rumor making the rounds. It makes sense, only because St. Pierre doesn't fight until January, so it would be awhile before he would be ready to defend his title against Alves (if St. Pierre even wins). Alves deserves a title shot, but don't be surprised to see this fight happen.

Since BJ Penn is set to defend the welterweight belt first if he wins, Florian would need to get another fight before his potential title fight. We all know how well that worked out for Karo Parisyan. Perhaps Florian should call up Thiago and go cry on each other's shoulders. I'm a proponent of Penn VS GSP II, but this sure does throw a wrench in the title picture and is vastly unfair to the two talented fighters. Furthermore, the rest of the welterweights and lightweights just found out that their contender line just got a little bit longer.

 

45 comments  | 

Bloody Elbow Alves gets the winner of GSP-Penn II

Cage Potato reports

...that Alves will get the winner of GSP-Penn II.

Penn_white_gsp_zuffa_400_medium

via www.sportsnet.ca


 

White said:

"He's next in line for a title shot. If GSP beats B.J. Penn, then (Alves) fights GSP. If B.J. Penn wins, then he fights B.J. And then he'd have to defend that title for a while before I let him move up and try to fight Anderson."

Okay, that's all fine and good but what about Florian? If Penn wins, then will he defend the LW title first followed by the welterweight title? If he defends the welterweight title first, then Florian will be sitting out for an extra 6 months. Florian would truly be the red-headed step child of MMA. What about the conundrum of Penn winning the welterweight belt, loses the lightweight belt to Florian, and then becomes the first champion to defend a belt after he lost his previous fight?

This is more convoluted than a bad time travel paradox.

 

23 comments  |