Mickael Pietrus is our most talented and relatively expendable asset.  If we hope to add some depth to our squad, we should look to move him before the Februrary 21st trading deadline.  I'm a firm believer that we shouldn't trade him to one of our competitors in the West (the Suns could really use him right now) because we shouldn't aid them at all in filling out their depth chart.  That being said, here's a quick breakdown of teams that could use an athletic, young, defensive swing man such as Pietrus:

Boston Celtics: I'm not a big James Posey fan, never have been.  I think Mickael Pietrus would be a nice upgrade at the backup small forward spot for them.  Pietrus could bring some much needed athleticism and defense which Posey lacks.  Plus Pietrus can do all of the things that Posey does on offense (and then some) on younger, healthier knees.  The Pietrus that we used to see here in Golden State (before this year) was an exciting slasher and praised defender, and a motivated Pietrus could return to that form in a change of scenery.  However, there aren't many players on that team which the Warriors could use.  Possibly Leon Powe or Tony Allen if they were stupid enough to trade them away.

Charlotte Bobcats: JRich and G.Wallace are their bonafide starting swingmen, but after that it gets a little hazy on the depth chart.  They seem to be shopping Matt Carroll around, which I think is a mistake.  Adam Morrison is a bust and he's injured.  Jared Dudley is still an unproven rook.  If they're shopping Matt Carroll, then maybe they're looking for more athleticism and defense off the bench.  Pietrus could be a fit here.  Who could we use from this team?  Matt Carroll could be for us what we all hope Belinelli turns into eventually, but his contract is scary at $6mil/6yrs.  I'd be willing to roll the dice on  Ryan Hollins ($800k/1yr), the 7 foot skinny center out of UCLA.  He's kind of like their version of Patrick O'Bryant, in that he doesn't get much playing time.  Maybe we can try him out over here and Nellie might just happen to see something he likes in him, and we could have a legit backup center.  Low risk, high reward.

Cleveland Cavaliers:  It's no secret that the Cavaliers could use Mickael Pietrus.  Hughes, Jones, Jones, Pavlovic, Newble, Brown.. all these guys are pretty sorry at this point.  Off their squad I'd like Daniel Gibson (no way they'd trade away Lebron's "little brother") or Drew Gooden ($7mil/2yrs).  Gooden is still a young dude, and he could be that big-body-post-defending, solid-rebounding, has-a-midrange-J guy on our team; plus he's an Oakland native.  His contract isn't so bad considering it'll be worth gold when it becomes an expiring contract next season.

Detroit Pistons: Aaron Afflalo, Jarvis Hayes, and Flip Murray are such crappy wingman depth for such a good veteran team; Pietrus could help out big time.  If they were dumb enough, I'd take Amir Johnson or Jason Maxiell off their hands in a second; but I don't see that happening.

Memphis Grizzlies: It seems like they want all the expiring contracts they can get at this point.  If they're willing to move either Kyle Lowry or Mike Miller to us for our expiring contracts then I'm all for it.

Anywhere else I'm missing?  I sure hope Pietrus gets traded.  He's already shown in his oncourt production and in his rantings to the media that he doesn't want to be here, so the Warriors shouldn't let him be a detriment to the team as the Warriors get ready for the playoff push.

Yes it's another trade thread.. There hasn't been many diaries lately and I'm bored, so you can just press the "Back" button on your browser if you're not interested.

There's a little more than a week left until the Trade Deadline and the Warriors still have some depth needs to fill.  I don't think we need any major roster shake ups, but we do need more depth because Baron and Stephen Jackson could use some rest.

I truly do believe our biggest hole in the depth chart right now is backup shooting guard.  When our beloved D-Leaguer CJ Watson is the first "shooting guard" off the bench, you know we have some depth issues.  And Azubuike?  I think we're starting to see why he went undrafted in the first place.  A gifted scorer, but often doesn't involve himself in the offense and constantly loses his man on defense.  And who knows when Belinelli will be ready to contribute.

We do have some trading chips.  We have the $9.9mil trade exception, Mickael Pietrus, Patrick O'Bryant, and our mid-round future draft picks.
Here's a list of decent guards that could help us out, which could be had on the cheap before the deadline:

Tony Allen from Boston -
It is true that he's young, talented, and still on his inexpensive rookie contract.  However, they may be willing to trade him to us for better depth.  They should know that their "Championship Window" is closing fast, and may not have the patience or provide the playing time for Tony Allen to develop.  Tony Allen and James Posey for Pietrus and POB?  They upgrade Posey to Pietrus, and get a backup center (right now they're using rookie 6'9" Big Baby).  If they go on to sign Cassell (or some other veteran PG), they move Eddie House to his natural backup SG role which Tony Allen vacates.

Bonzi Wells from Houston -
He's probably the best rebounding guard in the league.  He's on a $2.2mil expiring contract.  And best of all, he's on a team full of guards and rebounders.  And the Warriors could always use the extra rebounding.

Joel Przybilla from Portland -
Okay he's not a guard, but definitely worth mentioning.  With their roster full of talent at every roster spot and Oden coming back next season, someone's got to go and I think Przybilla is probably the odd man out.  Although our big man situation has improved with Webber coming aboard, we still lack the big, banging, rebounding, shotblocking presence in the middle.  7'1" Joel Przybilla is all that and more for $6mil/yr.

Michael Finley from San Antonio -
The Ime Udoka experiment hasn't exactly worked out well for them, and having Ginobili in the starting lineup at SG isn't exactly going to kill them either.  Pietrus could backup both wing positions for them and come in and fit the same role as Bruce Bowen does on that team (play defense and shoot 3's from the corner), as well add some much needed athleticism and youth to their squad.  Michael Finley may be on the decline, but he's still a clutch shooter and grizzy ol' veteran, and our backcourt sure could use more composure and big-game experience.  I would LOVE to put Finley in the starting lineup and make Monta the 6th man of the year (a la Ginobili, Gordon, Terry, Barbosa, etc).

Just throwing stuff out there.  Discuss.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=7356

Mike Miller To Miami?: Pencil Mike Miller as the next guy traded, or so he believes. Miller has told people close to him that he fully expects to be traded before the Feb. 21st trade deadline, and according to sources close to the situation it's likely going to be to Miami for Jason Williams' ending contract or Ricky Davis depending on who you talk to. Nothing is ever done until it's done, but if Miami does trigger the deal, the HEAT will have radically improved themselves without ever hitting free agency. Why would Memphis consider such a move? Word is the Grizz would get cash from Miami in the deal and ultimately buyout Jason shedding yet another guaranteed deal and setting up the Grizz to be one of the biggest players in free agency (and likely Chicago's biggest nemesis in keeping Ben Gordon). The HEAT are not the only team with eyes for Mike Miller, there are other suitors (Miller could be Dallas' fallback plan). It seems if the HEAT and Grizz are serious about a deal, there doesn't appear to be much in the way of it happening before the 21st.

Poll

get Mike Miller for the TPE?

60%

Yes, make use of that TPE!!!

63 votes

4%

No, Mike Miller sucks

5 votes

35%

No, we have to make 100% sure we keep Biedrins and Ellis

37 votes

105 votes | Poll has closed

Continue reading this post »

GSW gets
Ron Artest (using TPE)

SAC gets
Jason Kidd
Darrell Armstrong

NJN gets
Mike Bibby
Beno Udrih
Spencer Hawes
#1 protected pick from SAC

The breakdown:

Jason Kidd realizes that his big contract makes it impossible for him to be traded to a contender, and relations are now sour for him in New Jersey, so he settles and goes to the Kings back near home in NorCal to team up with Kevin Martin, John Salmons, and Brad Miller.

New Jersey does the trade because that's the best they can get.  They get a solid PG in return (Bibby), young talent on rookie contract (Hawes), and a backup PG / expiring contract in Armstrong, plus a first round pick next year from Sac, and they get immediate $6mil cap relief from the JRich TPE.

Sac does the trade because Artest is going to opt out no matter what, they've been trying to move Mike Bibby since forever, and JKidd is a huge improvement over Bibby.  Plus it frees up minutes for John Salmons and Garcia (who both deserve more playing time).  

GSW does it cuz we can't get anything else worth value with the TPE without worrying about our cap situation in the offseason.  If Artest opts out in the offseason, then we get to rent him for the playoffs at least.

The Warriors can really help facilitate a trade with that huge TPE.  The Nets and Sacramento won't deal straight up because the Nets have really no use for Artest position-wise, they'd rather have this nice juicy JRich TPE we're sitting on.  Warriors need to get involved and profit from this situation.

Here's one that I don't think I've seen here yet..

Desmond Mason
for
Pietrus and POB

Pros:

Desmond Mason was brought into Milwaukee for his intensity, his DEFENSE, and his veteran leadership.  Last time I checked, the Warriors fastbreak and easy bucket opportunities come from when they play solid defense, and it starts at the perimeter.  Baron and Jackson get worn down sometimes from heavy minutes, and Barnes, Azubuike, and Monta Ellis aren't exactly good perimeter defenders themselves.  

If you look at Mason's stats, you might come away unimpressed.  Nevermind those, think Bruce Bowen.  Think strong versatile defender who can guard two guard and small forward.  Think of him as a guy that can lock down a player, then run the break with us and throw down on the other end with a highlight reel dunk to get the crowd going (that's one aspect we don't have since JRich departed that isn't shown in the boxscore).  

Here's how I'd see it:

PG Baron / Ellis / Watson
SG Mason / Ellis / Azubuike
SF Jackson / Mason / Barnes
PF Harrington / Barnes / Croshere
C Biedrins / Webber / Perovic

Before you jump out of your chair because Monta is on the bench, I want you to listen.  Ellis could have a huge impact off the bench like Ben Gordon does.  When Gordon comes into the game, he can play most of the game not having to exert too much energy against defending bigger players because he's going up against second-string guards.  He's allowed to just go out there and score, and he's been putting up 30 point games since the move to the bench.  That's what I want Monta to do, just go in there and focus on scoring, because that's what he's best suited to doing.

Meanwhile, our starting lineup boasts three lockdown perimeter defenders.  Not bad, yeah?

And need I remind again, he could finish our fastbreaks with some of these..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aITDRL6hUVA

Playing hard-nosed defense, forcing turnovers and igniting fastbreaks, and throwing down exciting jams?  That's sounds like Warriors basketball to me.

I want to see what you guys think about all these different trade rumors.  With all these underachieving and desperate yet talented teams, this trading deadline could be exciting.  Here's who I think is truly on the trading block, why, and where they would be a good fit.  Feel free to add your own and comment.

Kirk Hinrich & Ben Gordon
It's no secret that the Bulls' offense is underachieving and horrible.  Luol Deng isn't the slashing type superstar they wanted him to be.  They lack both an inside post presence and a slasher.  Hinrich and Gordon are both lights out jumpershooters... if they get good looks.  I think they'd be a perfect fit feeding off Yao Ming's double teams in Houston.  They wouldn't have to try to dribble penetrate, create for others, or even do anything special.  All they'd have to do is run the offense through Yao, and sit back and enjoy all the open jumpers they'll get.

Mickael Pietrus
This one's a no-brainer and we all know it.  Matt Barnes' oncourt leadership and hustle limit Pietrus' involvement and minutes on our squad.  Contrary to what we all believe,  Pietrus has some value.  He's a solid shooter, he defends better than most at his position, and he doesn't turn the ball over as much as we think (although they're usually of the demoralizing, unforced type turnovers).  At his price tag, he could be useful to a bunch of teams that need a little boost off the bench.  Miami, Milwaukee, New Orleans just to name a few.  It all depends on how much Mullin is asking for.

Tracy McGrady
Yao Ming needs more shot attempts and more touches.  He's one of the most unstoppable forces in the game, and he's playing next to a guy named Tracy that needs to dominate the ball in order to be comfortable in the offense.  Tracy needs to be on a team that needs a lone go-to guy.  I think he'd be perfect in Chicago; he'd get to be the MAN their on offense.  I think a trade revolving around Hinrich/Gordon for McGrady could be an intriguing possibility.

Lamar Odom & Kwame Brown
I think the Lakers are going to slip soon.. big time.  They're without Bynum and they're going to be going up against a really tough schedule.  Panic is going to set in once again.  Lamar Odom is a waste of talent on that team, they're trying to turn him into a player that's not.  It's apparent that Bynum/Bryant is the new duo in LA, leaving Odom slightly expendable if they could get some good talent in return, which they definitely could.  The rise of Ariza, Radmanovic, and Turiaf, coupled with the consistency of Luke Walton, make Odom even more expendable. Alot of teams in the East need a solid PF: New Jersey, Cleveland, Miami to name a few.  Kwame Brown is just a big $9mil expiring contract who's definitely worn out his welcome in LA, but at least he's a big backup center who can play some D.  He'd be useful somewhere for half a season.

Rudy Gay or Mike Miller
It's plain to see that this team is very talented, but they're not very good... at all.  The big reason for this is DEFENSE, neither Gay or Miller want to play any.  They'd be extremely stupid to move Pau Gasol, so I think one of these two guys should go.  They could fetch alot of return value as well.

Ricky Davis & Haslem & J.Williams
This team sucks, and these guys are the reason why they suck.  This team is in desperate need to rebuild, but they have that superstar Dwyane Wade so they're kind of stuck in a rock and a hard place.

Charlie Villanueva
He's talented, but he's lost his role on the team to Yi JianLian.  He should be moved for some depth.

Zach Randolph & Quentin Richardson
Isaiah Thomas won't give minutes to David Lee and Renaldo Balkman, yet he refuses to trade them for anyone.  Something has got to give here.  But who's willing to take these guys?

Kurt Thomas
There's no reason why the Sonics should be paying him $9mil at the end of this year, unless their owner is a very very bad business man.  I can see why they traded for him (the Suns actually traded picks to Seattle for the privilege of unloading salary), but I can't see why they've still held onto him.  He'd be very useful as a playoff post defender.  I'm still an advocate of the Warriors trading a second rounder to get him.  

Poll

Most Likely to be Traded?

1%

Lamar Odom & Kwame Brown

1 votes

11%

Kurt Thomas

11 votes

0%

Kirk Hinrich

0 votes

6%

Ricky Davis & Haslem & J.Williams

6 votes

3%

Ben Gordon

3 votes

0%

Rudy Gay or Mike Miller

0 votes

63%

Mickael Pietrus

63 votes

6%

Charlie Villanueva

6 votes

6%

Tracy McGrady

6 votes

4%

Zach Randolph & Quentin Richardson

4 votes

100 votes | Poll has closed

Ok ok I know this has been brought up before in the past in the offseason, but things have changed just a little bit since then.

Jason Williams
for
POB, Pietrus, Perovic

Our need for a good backup PG is obvious.  

POB can be Miami's backup center, filling in for most-likely-retired Alonzo Mourning.  POB might not be the greatest, but he's way better than the Earl Barron / Mark Blount combo they're currently rockin.

You may call me crazy after looking at their money stats, but I think Pietrus would be better for them at SF than Ricky Davis is.  Ricky Davis is a low percentage chucker who doesn't pass the ball and plays absolutely no defense, which is why Dorell Wright starts over him now.  Perovic is trade filler.

Miami is probably one of the biggest disappointments in the league, and to add insult to injury, they're going to be paying for being being in the luxury tax at the end of the year.  They need youth, and they need to shake things up.

If that trade isn't appealing enough to them, I'd throw this in to sweeten the pot:

Monta Ellis + pick
for
Dorell Wright

Ellis is a much more reliable scorer right now, but Wright has SJax-like defensive length and potential, plus major athleticism.

Then we could trade some of our TPE for unused Smush Parker (and then cut him) to save them a couple mil from the luxury tax.

We could end up looking like this:

PG Baron / JWill
SG Azubuike / Belinelli
SF SJax / D.Wright
PF Harrington / Barnes / B.Wright
C Biedrins / MBenga

While the Heat look like this:

PG Monta / Quinn
SG Wade / D.Cook
SF Pietrus / R.Davis
PF Haslem / Blount
C Shaq / POB

They get a little bit younger, a little bit more athletic, and add another offensive weapon in Monta Ellis.  And they'll be saving themselves from the luxury tax.

Some cons to the trade: I don't know how well Monta and Wade would work together.  Both aren't true PGs and both are inconsistent 3 point shooters.  Either way they're both efficient scorers who would be a fun scoring tandem to watch, imagine all the foul problems they'd put opposing teams in.

Again, at first glance, it looks like we're robbing them.  But at this point, the Heat (8-20) might be in desperation mode; cutting down their payroll and adding a reputable 3rd option scorer like Monta might be what they need, cuz what they have right now certainly isn't going to take them anywhere.

There have been many good trade ideas for point guards that have been mentioned.  Andre Miller, Jose Calderon, Luke Ridnour.  But Andre Miller is scoring out of his mind right now, and his backup PG has cooled off as of late (Lou Will).  Jose Calderon is too good and TJ Ford is too injury prone for the Raptors to deal Calderon away easily.  The Seattle PGs have ugly ugly contracts (~$18mil/3yrs for Ridnour and Watson) that we should not go near.  Grabbing Jason Williams away from the pathetic Heat is probably the situation that we could best profit from.

I know this is mainly a Warriors site, but I know all you baseball heads probably have alot of interesting incite on this issue.

I'm not the biggest baseball fan there is, but I used to be a huge Giants fan in the 90s.  It amazed me to learn that it wasn't just a few steroid users in the league that have skewed the record books as well as the W-L column in the last couple of years, but rather a significant percentage of players that I thought were good for an era spanning a few decades.

It not only made good players great, but it also made alot of bad players good, imo.  I see names like Marvin Benard on the report and I can't help but thinking how bad they probably would have been without the juice.

I think this is going to be VERY bad for the MLB. This combined with the huge descrepancy of team payrolls only confirms that teams and players trying to compete in the MLB haven't been on a fair playing field for the last couple of decades or so.

Baseball, at its fundamentals, is a great sport, I think.  But the message that comes across is this: if you're not a rich team that can go out and buy the best players in the league, and if your players aren't taking steroids, then you're not going to compete with some of the other teams in the MLB.  And this is a very very negative influence for the mindset of the young baseball players and fans today.

I also hope that Barry Bonds won't be used as the primary scapegoat anymore.  He's no more at fault than anybody else on that report, and yet he might face jail time.  Sure Bonds lied about it, but who is to say that everybody else on that report wouldn't have lied either.

What are your guys' thoughts on all this?  There's so many issues that this thing brings up.

It's popular belief here on GSoM that JRich was traded for one of two reasons:
a) It was part of a communication blunder and a failed attempt to include Al Thornton in a trade package to get KG, as noted here: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2007/11/20/warriors_not_enough/.
I have a hard time believing that a communication as bad as this could have happened.  How hard could have it been for Mullin to find out beforehand which player to draft that the Timberwolves wanted?  If Mullin was incapable of doing that as a GM and drafted the wrong guy on accident, he would've been fired by now.  
b) It was a salary dumping move so that we could re-sign Biedrins and/or Monta Ellis next season.  I have a hard time believing this one as well.. if this was the case, why couldn't we have just kept JRich and moved him at this year's trade deadline?

The more I look at our current payroll, the more I believe that moving JRich was out of necessity for this season's roster.  Taking a look at our payroll: http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/golden_state.htm
This includes Foyle's and Sarunas' contracts, which would be the situation if we hadn't been able to buy them out.  Our payroll would sit at $65.5mil, just $2.4mil under the luxury tax; and this is without JRich's contract.  Now subtract Brandan Wright's contract and add JRich's contract to that, we'd be at $73.2mil, or $5.3mil over the luxury tax.  If we had kept JRich, more than half our bench wouldn't be here.  

It's an illusion that we're just sitting on JRich's pretty $9.9mil TPE, deciding whether or not we should use it to trade for Artest or use it to re-sign Biedrins/Monta.  That money isn't even there, we had to use the salary to fill out the rest of our depth chart.  The money was used to re-sign Barnes, Pietrus and Buke; sign Perovic, Belinelli, Wright, and Lasme.  All those contracts add up. And while we still were able to fill our 15-man roster and stay out of the luxury tax, we're not far enough away from the luxury tax to use our TPE for anything significant.

This brings me more peace about the JRich trade, knowing that it was more of a necessity than anything else.  If we had kept JRich, our bench right now would be littered with scrub minimum-contract players.

Some will argue that our bench isn't even really contributing right now.  Keep in mind that Baron and SJax won't be able to play 40 minutes every night for the rest of the season, and injuries will undoubtedly happen, and at some point our bench players will be heavily relied upon.  And the JRich trade will have paid its dividends.

from basketballvalue.com:

         OnCourt     OffCourt    WeightedDiff(per48)
Baron    473-501     66-97       +30
Ellis    422-454     117-144     +10
Barnes   210-220     329-378     +9
Buke     400-437     139-161     +4
POB      68-72       471-526     +4
Biedrins 409-458     130-140     -1
THud     27-33       512-565     -3
Belinelli 104-126    435-472     -10
Harrington 359-409   180-189     -11
Pietrus   208-253    331-345     -14

(our other players haven't played enough significant minutes to be included.)

What this tells me:

Baron - As we've seen by his plethora of minutes played, we're still not even a winning team when he is on the floor, but we're truly a disgusting team when he's off the floor.

Monta - same goes for Monta

Barnes - despite his slow start, airballs and occasional turnover this season, our team has statistically done its best when he's been on the court.  He really is the glue guy after all, he needs more PT.

PF/C - It shows that we haven't been that bad of a team with Biedrins off the court, which echoes my previous sentiments that he isn't the cornerstone to this franchise that alot of people believe him to be.  POB has a pleasantly surprising positive weighted rating, however he clearly hasn't spent enough time on the floor to make this stat that reassuring.  Further supporting what alot have people have said already, POB should be the first guy off the bench and get more than 5mpg.  He's not a rookie anymore, and yet Nelson hasn't even given him the opportunity to fail or succeed.

Belinelli - He's gotten a surprising amount of PT thus far and has not produced.  When he's on the floor it feels like he's not even part of the offense.  Either he's not working hard enough to get the ball, or his teammates don't have enough faith in him yet to make a good play.  Either way, I'm not worried.  He'll produce more and more as the season progresses.

Pietrus - Starting Pietrus at PF for those games has played out to be a big big mistake.  Despite his efficiency, the Warriors have been a real travesty when Pietrus is on the court.  Granted, Nelly didn't have too many options.  In hindsight, Harrington/Barnes at PF and Biedrins/POB at C seems like a more successful rotation.

I would still really like to see how Lasme's shot altering defensive presence could contribute to our lackluster defense.

I know alot of these comments are mere reproductions of the whiny diaries posted everyday.  I just thought it was pretty cool to look at it from a purely unbiased statistical perspective and wanted to share.

We all know the Warriors have some depth issues.  Having a rested/healthy Baron Davis is crucial to our success later in the season.  Therefore having a good backup point guard is essential.  It really sucks seeing the team fall apart whenever Baron is out of the game.  

Thus far, THud and Monta aren't cutting it as PGs.  Maybe they will grow into good enough backup PGs sometime this season, maybe they won't.

If that never happens, I think the Warriors should give serious considerations at looking to acquire Philadelphia's 3rd string PG: Louis Williams.

Why?

1. Career: 45% fg, 30% 3pt, 2+:1 ast:to ratio.  decent, but not THAT impressive on paper
2. but look at how he's doing this season: 50% fg, 7.8 AST/40, 1.2 TO/40, 2.35 STL/40
3. from 82games.com's 06-07 Adjusted Plus-Minus:  Louis Williams was rated at +5.08.  Even though he has a possible error margin of 4.27 due to the fact he only played 688 minutes last year, that still lands him on the positive side of the +-.  Putting that in perspective, there's only 17 point guards in the league that have a positive adjusted +- (taking into account their lowest possible rating including error margin).  Link: http://www.82games.com/ilardi1.htm
4. Basketballvalue.com keeps comprehensive stats on pretty much everything you could ever want to look up.  They have a rating called "Overall Weighted Difference Rating Net".  Basically, it takes into account points scored and points allowed, with Williams on/off the court, and weighs the difference per 48 minutes.  
   

link: http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2007-2008&sortnumber=21&sortorder=DESC

Louis Williams landed FIFTH this year so far out of all NBA players.  When he's been on the court, the 76ers have outscored their opponents 150-105.  With him off the court, the 76ers have gotten outscored 243-225.

150-105.  What does that simple stat tell me?  It tells me their offense doesn't fall apart when he's running the show.  It also tells me he's not a huge defensive liability that teams can exploit consistently.  

In considering this stat, I've tried to look at it from various angles:  

What if he's just been playing with very good teammates?  The site says majority of his minutes have come alongside Thad Young, Jason Smith, Korver, and Carney.  Not the greatest or most experienced bench in the world.

Then it made me think.. What if he's only been playing against really bad players?  He's gotten most of his PT against Chris Duhon, Jose Calderon, and McInnis.  solid backups for the most part, which is all we'd need Williams to play against anyway.

5. For some reason the 76ers are still sleeping on him.  He's gotten more minutes this year at 17mpg, but they still have the other backup PG Kevin Ollie getting 17mpg too.  All the statistics I've seen show that, plain and simple, when he's on the floor, their team does considerably better than the other team, for both this year and last year.  His individual statistics only support that as well.  Yet in his 3rd year with the 76ers, he's still the 3rd string PG.  They're SLEEPING on him, we need to swoop him for cheap before they wake up and smell the coffee.
6. I'll admit, I've rarely seen the guy play.  I was very impressed by him lighting it up in summer league, and I've seen a highlight dunk or two by him on ESPN.  Other than that, I'm going to follow him closely from now on with NBA League Pass.

He's kind of like Monta Ellis in that he's an undersized scoring guard that came out of HS.  However, this year, he's raised his assists and vastly lowered his turnovers; something Monta has not been able to do.

What do you guys think?  Diamond in the rough?

What I'm about to say may be vastly unpopular with GSOM, but all I ask you to do is hear me out with an open mind.

Boozer exploited our lack of defensive post presence once again in the season opener.  The rebounding didn't bother me as much as the fact that he was unstoppable putting the ball in the hole or getting to the line.  Utah has Boozer, SA has Duncan, the Suns have Amare, Rockets have Yao, Nene on the Nuggets is turning into a beast in his own right and so is Bynum on the Lakers.

Bottom line is this: We'll never make it out of the second round of the playoffs if we can't defend the low post in the West.  In fact, we were lucky to matchup against Dirk and the Mavs or else I don't think we would have even made it past the first round.

So who do we usually blame?  We point the finger at whoever is playing the PF position for us.  Then we brainstorm who we could get to play that position for us.  We go down the list of PF's, but there's too many restrictions:

1. they have to defend the low post well
   
2. they have to rebound well
   
3. they have to be able to get up and down the court well
   
4. they have to be able to spread the defense with range on their jumpshot, because we already have a guy on the offense who doesn't have range and we can't have TWO guys like that

But wait just a second.. Biedrins is that guy.  Not only that, but he DOESN'T solve our post presence dilemma either.  Don't get me wrong, he's a monster on the glass and a great weakside shotblocker.  But he actually creates more dilemmas on our squad than Harrington does, and it's not like he's stopping Boozer or anything.

Mark my words: If we extend Biedrins and he becomes our everyday starting Center, under Coach Nelson, we will never get out of the first round of the playoffs.  His limitations on the offensive end create too much INFLEXIBILITY at who we can start at the power forward position, which leaves Biedrins to be the best post defender we have on the floor.. but he can't defend the post.

This is all assuming Brandan Wright will take a few years to be able to step into that starting PF role (if ever), and also assuming we don't do something amazing like acquiring KG to play PF for us.

So what do we do? We put Biedrins, Monta, Pietrus together in a trade package and we try to get a big name solid athletic post defender at the trade deadline.  Otherwise, I'm afraid to say, what happened in the playoffs last year and what happened at the Oracle last night will keep happening.

Reading through these diaries, I always see these types of comments:
"Why should we trade our valuable youth away for older players?"

There's a common misconception that a younger player is always more valuable than an older player, all else held equal.

However, there's something that stats don't take into account, and that's experience.  Take a look at this chart I found:

NBA Team                Age           Exp.
Atlanta Hawks          24.52          2.73
Boston Celtics         25.10          3.47
Charlotte Bobcats      25.96          3.27
Chicago Bulls          25.88          3.60
Cleveland Cavaliers    27.65          5.87
Dallas Mavericks       27.51          5.33
Denver Nuggets         26.47          4.80
Detroit Pistons        28.28          6.29
Golden State Warrier   24.93          3.33
Houston Rockets        28.11          5.47
Indiana Pacers         27.25          3.93
Los Angeles Clippers   27.42          5.07
Los Angeles Lakers     26.00          4.47
Memphis Grizzlies      26.57          4.27
Miami Heat             28.17          5.93
Milwaukee Bucks        25.25          2.73
Minnesota Timberwolv   27.44          5.00
New Jersey Nets        27.26          5.13
New York Knicks        26.46          4.71
NO/Okla. City Hornet   25.94          3.57
Orlando Magic          26.43          4.73
Philadelphia 76ers     26.22          4.13
Phoenix Suns           28.98          5.92
Portland Trail Blaze   25.00          3.13
Sacramento Kings       27.82          5.86
San Antonio Spurs      30.37          6.71
Seattle Supersonics    25.56          3.60
Toronto Raptors        26.10          2.87
Utah Jazz              25.37          2.93
Washington Wizards     26.83          4.33
NBA Average            26.62          4.42

The oldest teams here are the Spurs, Suns, Heat, Pistons and Rockets.  It goes without saying what kind of success all those teams have had in the last couple of years.

I'm not saying that age wins championships.  But I am saying game experience does play a vital role in winning, even if it doesn't exactly reflect on the stat sheet.  Good veteran players do what they need to do at the right time because they've been around long enough to know what to do to win.

I'm not saying we should go trade for a bunch of 33 or 34 year olds past their physical prime.  I just wanted to show some evidence to the GSOM community that youth isn't everything in this league.

This is kind of an expansion of OZ's diary about getting Ricky Davis, which I totally agree to.  I wanted to make a separate diary on this to get a response of getting Gooden also in addition to Ricky Davis.

In short, here's the proposed trade scenario:

GSW gets
Gooden $6.5mil salary
RDavis 6.8
Newble 3.4

CLE gets
POB 2.2
Jasikevicius 4
JRich TPE (from GSW) 3.1
Justin Reed TPE (from MIN) .7

MIN gets
Jrich TPE (from GSW) 6.8

The salaries all work out, and if you break up the deal into two parts the TPE trade rules work out as well, trust me.

Our core of the depth chart would look like this:
PG BDavis
SG Ellis / Belinelli
SF SJax / RDavis
PF Gooden / Wright
C Biedrins / Harrington

With Ellis taking time at PG, and RDavis taking time at SG as well.

The beauty of this deal is four-fold.

A) We replace JRich's athleticism and scoring with Ricky Davis; a bigger player who scores more efficiently, gets his highlight dunks as well, and gets more assists than JRich

B) We get Gooden.  A young proven rebounder and post defender who can hold his own against players like Boozer and Duncan.  He also his a midrange jumper which would bode well as a Nelly big man.

C) We get rid of POB and Jasikevicius, who are useless to us.

D) Flexibility next offseason.  I checked how the salaries would look next offseason, we'd still be around $15million under the luxury tax level even if this deal went down.  That's plenty o' money to extend the contracts of both Biedrins and Monta Ellis.  Not only that, we'll have 3 prime time expiring contracts (BD $17mil, Foyle $10mil, Gooden $7mil) if we wanted to pull the trigger should a disgruntled superstar of KG's status become available next season.  We'd have the most trading firepower in the league by far and could deal with anyone if we wanted to.  As OZ stated before, big expiring deals make big trades happen; always.

I think it would be a far superior lineup to the one we had last season and we'd still have the freedom to make big moves next season if it doesn't work out.  Maybe KG going to the Celtics and Minnesota taking back all those players and having a logjam at the wing position was really a blessing in disguise for us...

There's few free agents left, and few moves that the Warriors can make, and I wanted to put out a suggestion that has been mentioned here before and maybe start up a discussion.

Andray Blatche is a restricted free agent right now.  Physically, he fits the KG mold, the same mold we've all been saying is the "ideal" big man for Nellie's system.  He runs the floor, he's athletic, he spreads the defense with good range on his jumper, he rebounds, he blocks shots, he's young and he's probably going to be cheap.

So why haven't most people heard of him?  Technically he was drafted 3 years ago, but has only played in 85 games because he got shot.  So basically, he has one rookie season of in-game experience under his belt.  He's only gotten 10min per game, leading to his career averages being not impressive at all: 3.2points/2.7reb/.5bpg.

Here's Blatche's stats 85 games into his young NBA career:
Andray Blatche:
Points per FGA- 1.03
Rebs per 36min - 9.62
Blocks per 36min - 1.78

For kicks, here's KG's stats from his rookie year:
Kevin Garnett:
Points per FGA- 1.13
Rebs per 36min - 7.99
Blocks per 36min - 2.01

Downsides:
He has a 42% career fg percentage.  Although not that bad for a young guy who shoots alot of jumpers, it is bad for a guy 6'11".  On the upside, he improved a little from his first year to second year, 38%->43%, being more productive overall on the boards and blocks as well.

Here's some clips showcasing is athleticism and talent:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShmKbkv2OGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPqVZBwTc6Y

Now before all the negative posts come, let me make a disclaimer.  I'm NOT saying he's as good as KG, i'm saying he Might have the potential to be like KG given his build, skillset, and talent.  There aren't too many KG replicas out there.  He certainly is a better fit for our team than POB, Foyle, Perovic (just from what i've read), and probably Lasme and Powell.

I think the biggest hold ups for Minnesota not wanting to trade KG for Monta/Wright/Harrington are:
a) they aren't getting a proven solid rebounder
b) they don't want Harrington's long expensive contract if they're planning to go into a youth movement

With the drafting of Brandan Wright, I believe we have the flexibility to now give up Andris Biedrins under certain circumstances.

So here's my trade proposal:

trade#1:
MIN gets
$9.9mil TPE

GSW gets
Mark Madsen
Troy Hudson

trade#2:
MIN gets
Andris Biedrins
Adonal Foyle
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Monta Ellis (or Brandan Wright)
Patrick O'Bryant

GSW gets
Kevin Garnett

GSW Depth Chart:
Baron Davis / Troy Hudson / Pierce
Belinelli / Azuibuke
SJax / Barnes (or Pietrus or Posey) (with MLE)
Harrington / Wright / Powell / Lasme
Garnett / Perovic / Madsen

MIN Depth Chart:
Ellis / Jaric / Jasikevicius
Foye / Hassell / McCants
Ricky Davis / Corey Brewer
Juwan Howard / Craig Smith
Biedrins / Mark Blount / Foyle / O'Bryant

So you might be thinking:
Why is this good for Minnesota?

they have a good young core of Ellis, Foye, Brewer, and Biedrins to rebuild with

they get the $9.9mil exception

they have the expiring contracts of Ricky Davis, Juwan Howard, McCants, Jasikevicius, and POB

they essentially trade Madsen/Hudson's long term contracts (total of $22mil for 3 years) for Adonal Foyle's shorter term contract (total of $19mil for 2 years)

Now for the Warriors: How are we better than last year?

a KG/Belinelli duo will outscore and outrebound a Biedrins/Ellis duo any day of the week; even if Belinelli only gets like 5ppg and 0rpg

we now have a guy to battle the Boozers and Duncans of the world

if the rumors are true and Perovic is going to sign a multiyear with the Warriors, I'm hoping he will be at least a service-able backup center

if Biedrins can play center on our team, for sure KG can

we retain a future in "KG-Lite" Wright, hopefully he can come off the bench and give us some extra boards and blocks, something we didn't have last year off of the bench

everybody on the starting lineup has the potential to go for 25+ points any given game (Belinelli too hopefully)

I used to believe that we needed to keep Biedrins and Garnett to be a better squad, but with the tremendous upside of Brandan Wright, maybe we can just trade away Biedrins and Monta and then we wouldn't even have to worry about their extensions anymore either.

It looks like they really know what they're doing over there in the front office.

Their #18 pick, Marco Belinelli, dropped 37 today in the summer league, like most of you guys already know about I'm sure.

Not only that, but take a look at how some of the other players that GSOM has mentioned have done so far:

Rudy Fernandez - probably isn't even going to come over to the US

Jason Smith - 33% fg shooting, 4.5ppg

Yi Jianlian - 31% fg, 6topg

Thaddeus Young - 8ppg

The Warriors chose not to pursue these guys for good reason I guess, all while Belinelli and Buke are tearing it up.  Looks like Nelly and Mullin picked the right guys to go with.  I wonder where those guys on GSOM are that said it was a bad idea to draft foreigners. Anyways, I'm stoked for the next game.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/07/03/SPGOAQQ4111.DTL

"I've always said this team will pay a tax if we're in a position to put a team out on the court that's going to compete at the highest level possible," Rowell said. "I'll also back up and say that in the history of who's won championships in this league, the San Antonio Spurs have won four championships and they've paid tax once. ... So it's very doable."

I don't know about you guys, but this was big news to me.  Apparently the Warriors won't give a damn if they go over the luxury tax.  

What does this mean?  It means we don't have to save money for resigning Biedrins and Ellis.  NOW LET'S GO GET KG AND CRASH!

Shawn Marion
Lamar Odom
Josh Smith
Andres Nocioni
Gerald Wallace
Josh Howard

These are the guys that I think the Warriors need to pursue.  They're all guys that can play the 3 and 4 positions in Nellie's system, and would complete our depth chart.

Shawn Marion-
Possibility since the Suns are shopping him because of luxury tax reasons.

Lamar Odom-
Possibility if there's some sort of 3way with the Lakers and TWolves.

Josh Smith-
Possibility because Childress is coming back, and they now have a jam at the forward position (with Childress, Josh Smith, Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams, and now Al Horford).  I think I want this guy the most from this list.  His high-flying dunks will help us forget about losing JRich and his shotblocking could add so much excitement.

Andres Nocioni-
Possibility due to the emergence of Luol Deng.

Gerald Wallace-
Free agent.

Josh Howard-
Doesn't seem likely to me, but you never know.

Who did I leave out?

Ron Artest - Honestly I think he's a little overrated.  Plus he has some issues.

Kevin Garnett - Okay I'm going to get alot of crap for this, but I don't want to give up Wright and Biedrins and Monta and everybody just to get this guy.  KG is one of the best all-time power forwards, but he's only going to be at this level for another 2 or 3 years.  Also he's going to want an extension when he gets here.  After trading away our future, I don't think we'd just let KG walk so we'd probably give him that extension. Which means we'll be paying him the big bucks long after his prime is over a la Shaq and Ben Wallace.

If we got KG we could potentially contend for a championship one year, and then fizzle out like the Miami Heat.  Adding one of the young guys from above to our youthful talented core gives us more of a chance to become a dynasty like the Spurs.

While browsing around the internet trying to find more info on this guy, I came across this:

http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/Draft/2007stats.htm

Now I don't know how these projected stats came about, but they definitely brought a smile to my face about getting Brandan Wright.

It says he could be a 13ppg/8rpg player by his sophomore season, and eventually a 21ppg/9rpg player.  

Like I said, I don't know how much credibility I would give these projections, just wanted to pass it along.

Boykins has opted out, Mo Williams might not resign with the Bucks, Blake might be gone, Bucks have no point guard.

I want to see the Warriors trade Jasikevicius to the Bucks for their late 2nd round pick (whoever that is), to clear up $4mil under the cap.

Memphis is another team under the cap that may need a PG.

With the recent salary departure of JRich, I want to see the Warriors go out and get Gerald Wallace for $8mil/year.

Next year's lineup:

PG Baron / Monta
SG Gerald Wallace / Belinelli
SF SJax / Barnes (or Pietrus or Azubuike)
PF Harrington / Wright / Lasme
C Biedrins / OBryant / Foyle

How do you like that?

Just a little bored and wanted to kick around an idea.  

Warriors get:
Udonis Haslem
Jason Williams (expiring $9mil)
pick #20

Heat get:
Al Harrington
Sarunas Jasikevicius (expiring $4mil)
pick #18

Why Haslem is good for the Warriors:

strong post PF and a good all-around defender

athletic and can run the floor

proven above-average rebounder

efficient offense at 50% career fg%, has a decent open midrange jumper

27 years old

Why Jason Williams is good for the Warriors:

huge cap relief next year to resign Monta/Biedrins

can come off the bench for maybe 10min game, show some veteran floor general leadership

can play his natural flashy PG style here and wow the crowd, his creativity was frowned upon under Pat Riley

Why Al Harrington is good for the Heat:

the Heat were ranked 27th in 3pt shooting, they have no deep threat besides Kapono, and Kapono might become a free agent; Harrington shot 42% from 3pt with the Warriors

the Heat just need more offense in general, also 27th in the league in points per game; Al Harrington is a versatile scorer who can score from anywhere

Why Sarunas is a good for the Heat:

expiring contract

I think he'll do better in this type of offense; all he has to do is pass it to Wade and let him create, or pass it in to Shaq, or hit the open jumper created by double teams; Sarunas doesn't have to be a playmaker here like a Warriors PG needs to be

career 36% 3pt shooter

Why the #18 pick is good for the Heat:
- more security that they'll get a good PG in the draft like Acie Law or Crittendon, most mocks have the Heat picking a PG, which might imply they won't be keeping JWill around anyway

What does GSOM think?

He's a 6'11" athletic PF that comes off the bench for the Wizards.  He came out of HS a couple of years ago and he's still kind of a raw talent, but tremendous upside.  Hasn't done much in the NBA, but does give very productive minutes sometimes in limited minutes.  Shown good rebounding and shotblocking skills.  Good handles, has a good face-up game on the offensive end and a nice touch.

Due to be a free agent this offseason.  Chances are if he becomes a free agent he will sign for cheap.  Should the Dubs offer him a cheap contract?

If he doesn't become a free agent, should the Warriors try to swing a deal?  The Wizards are weak at the backup 2/3 spots and Pietrus or Barnes could be candidates for a sign-and-trade deal.

Blatche could come in off the bench for cheap, get some rebounds and block some shots and he won't be usless on offense either.  What does GSOM think?

at draftexpress:
http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=2095

Continue reading this post »

Nuggets get:
Pietrus (sign and trade)
Zarko (sign and trade)
Sarunas
Biedrins

Warriors get:
Reggie Evans
Marcus Camby
JR Smith

At first glance, this trade looks lopsided as hell.  Why would Denver possibly want to give up the defensive POY for two scrubs, Biedrins, and a Frenchman?

Let's look at the facts about the Denver Nuggets:  

They have nearly the worst 3point shooting in the NBA.  They have one three point shooter in Steve Blake, whom they won't be able to resign in the offseason.  JR Smith is a great 3point shooter but the Nuggets have given up on him, he didn't even play in the playoffs.

According to this link:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/post/Camby-Najera-Evans-could-be-on-Nuggets-tradin?urn=nba,31139
Camby and Evans are on the trading block because the Nuggets are way over the cap and they want Nene and Kmart to be the starting frontcourt. I guess they feel like Camby's getting old and they're afraid of his big congract. I'm not afraid, hell the guy just won defensive POY.

The Nuggets are one of the best rebounding teams in the league.  Currently they have 5 good rebounding big men on their team.  

So why would the Nuggets want these players specifically?

Pietrus - shot 39% from 3point land this year.  if the Warriors sign and trade, his contract will free up $4mil in cap room for the Nuggets next offseason

Zarko - trade fodder.  if signed and traded, will free up another $3mil in cap room for the Nugs next offseason.

Sarunas - career 36% 3point shooter.  will help them at PG since they will have no PG (besides combo guard Iverson).  also an expiring contract, saving them another $4mil next offseason.

Biedrins - who wouldn't want Biedrins?  This is the biggest comfort in giving up Camby.  If it doesn't work out for them, hey they get another $3mil next offseason from his expiring contract.

Nuggets win: They free up potentially $14mil worth of cap room next offseason.  They add two good 3point shooters.  They get help at PG.  They add a young solid big man in Andris Biedrins in case KMart continues to be hampered by injury.

Warriors win: We get a great defensive-player-of-the-year inside post presence in Marcus Camby.  We get two extraordinary rebounders in Evans and Camby.  We get JR Smith who is a sick dunker and 3point shooter, and if he doesn't work out he'll be a free agent next offseason.

This is win-win.  Chris Mullin, make it happen.

Okay so the Warriors are going to be way over the cap starting this upcoming year.  That means the only way we can sign free agents or lock up our existing players is through certain free agency exceptions:

Andris Biedrins - His contract will expire next offseason, but we need to extend his contract now or we're going to lose him after next season.  We can use the Larry Bird exception once a year and it states that we can resign a 3-year team veteran even if we are over the cap.  After this season, Biedrins has been with the team for 3 years so it works.  I think we need to use this and extend his contract.

Monta Ellis - The reason we have to use the Larry Bird exception on Biedrins during this offseason is because we'll need to use the same exception on Ellis for next season.  We can't use that exception on him this offseason because he's only been with us for two years.

Matt Barnes - There's only one way we can resign this guy and that's by using the Mid Level Exception, which states that we can use ~$5mil (the avg NBA salary) every year on free agents regardless of our cap situation.  I'm certain Barnes will not sign for under $2mil/year so I'm a little hesitant on the Warriors using their MLE money on resigning Barnes.  Our free agent priorities should be rebounding and post defense, and that's where the ~$5mil should go towards this offseason.  Same goes for Pietrus' expiring contract, but I don't think anybody really wants him back anyway.

Kelenna Azubuike - Hopefully we can resign him for cheap and use just a little bit of that MLE money for him, but something tells me we're going to need all of that ~$5mil for a big man.  Best case scenario is if he signs for the minimum (you can always sign players at the minimum), but I'm not sure that will happen.

#18 and #36 picks in the upcoming draft - We don't need to worry about these due to the Rookie contract exception.  

Well that's how I see it in a nutshell:
Biedrins' contract extended this offseason
Monta resigned next offseason
Barnes/Pietrus will not be returning
Azubuike will return Hopefully
Warriors use their $5mil MLE to go out and get a post guy

For those who don't know, F/C Eddie Griffin was waived from the TWolves midseason last year due to alcohol problems, reckless driving, suspensions and a very out-of-character non-productive season.

However, he could potentially be exactly what the Warriors are lacking.  He's an above average rebounder, he's a SUPERB shot blocker, he's young, he's quicker than his position, and he's a big 6'10" body we could use in the defensive post.  And he's relatively cheap, his last contract went for $2mil/year.  

What does GSOM think, should we take a risk on this guy?

Maybe I'm alone on this one, but I don't think trading for KG or Jermaine or Gasol are going to solve our problems.

Look at it this way.  If we want KG or Jermaine, we'd have to unload ALOT of salary to get them.  In addition to that, no GM in the league would ever trade a big man away without getting one in return.  That being said, there is no possible way we can get either of them without giving up our biggest bargaining chip: Biedrins.  Just to make room under the cap, we'd also have to trade JRich/Harrington/orBaron and Foyle (and that's even assuming that anybody would want to take on his contract).  

So in our BEST possible, feasible trade scenario, it would look something like this:

Biedrins + Jrich/Harrington/Baron + Foyle
for
KG/O'neal + scrub#1 + scrub#2

I love KG, everybody in the world loves KG.  But look what we'll be left with.   We'll go from having just one solid rebounder on the team (Biedrins) to again having just one solid rebounder on the team (KG/Oneal).  We'll go from having one decent low post presence (Biedrins) to having a better low post presence (KG/Oneal).  This is the only upside to the trade with alot of downsides.  This trade will deplete an already weak bench, and we won't have any cap room to sign anybody decent.  We need a deep team to be able to run all day like we do.  Plus we're trading away youth and athleticism, KG's not a young guy anymore and he's starting to go on the decline.  Not only that, but we'll be messing with the core and chemistry of a team that has started to gel together very nicely already in just half a season.

Please Mullin, don't break the bank just to get KG/O'neal.

 

First time posting on this site, but been reading it for awhile.  Just wanted to know what you guys think about the dubs signing the Rockets' SF/PF Chucky Hayes, who will be a free agent in the offseason.

monster on the boards (averages 16.1 rebs/48min)

above-average defender

hustle player, provides energy off the bench

youth

won't shoot any three-pointers or try to overachieve on offense, he's a role player that knows his role

probably won't cost too much, currently plays for a minimum contract

played in Kentucky w/ Azubuike

from San Leandro

undersized but plays big at 6'6", think Sir Charles

won't solve the low post defense problem

fouls alot

stamina and durability concerns

We all saw how the Jazz just exposed the Warriors' biggest weaknesses, which were Rebounding and Low Post Defense.  Unfortunately, after extending the contracts of Monta and Biedrins, we won't have the cap room to go after a big name free agent.  Hayes  can be a big contributor off the bench for what we need and hopefully at not too high of a price.

Hopefully POB can continue to develop and maybe our problem of rebounding and low post presence will take care of itself when he steps up.  Honestly, I think Foyle needs to get some minutes, he's not completely useless.

I don't think we need to make any crazy changes, just a few crucial additions to make us a deeper, more well-rounded squad.  Then it's time to take down the Jazz next year.