IS PAT WHITE IFFY? 

 by uncle finster on May 2, 2009 4:24 AM EDT  154 comments

              When it comes to draft picks normally I have a wait and see attitude, and rarely dislike picks, it is always proven on the field, as it will be with Mr White, however I cant remember the last time I disliked a draft pick this much, I will be surprised if he ends up doing much of any thing.

A good rule of thumb(should have been rule of the wrist ha-ha) when evaluating a player or projecting how well a team is going to perform, is how many IFs there are, the more IFs, the less likely that team or player is of succeeding, hence the term IFFY ha-ha

These are the IFs I see at the QB position;
IF he can overcome his height disadvantage.
IF he can overcome his weight disadvantage.
IF he can change his  looping Vick like delivery.
IF he can change his footwork, he doesn’t keep his feet under his shoulders so he always has to set himself before he throws which compounds his long delivery problem.
IF he can become comfortable in the pocket, he never had to in college, its not an option in the NFL, no matter how mobile you are, he would look to run too quickly. 
On top of that his arm is not strong, its not weak, but its not strong.
Aside from his size these things can be coached, but each one of them can be very difficult to change.

Now just like the half of you I sat in front of the tv and watched the draft and I heard what Mayock said about White, but he also said he would have to change his delivery, Matty also mentioned this in his post The Pat White Conundrum: Why so divisive? The problem I have with Matty and Mayock is that they just gloss over it, as if it were nothing, but the fact of the matter is, that it usually does not work, I can't recall any players who have successfully changed from the looping delivery to have success, I'm not saying they don't exist, I just can't recall any. Also the loop generates more power so taking that out of his delivery will sacrifice some of his power, he does not have a weak arm now, but after changing his delivery, who knows.

White has been throwing the same way for probably 15 years or more, you just can't change that overnight, the age old problem is when you put them in a game they just revert back, because its what is natural for that player.

Just last year Beck attempted to "tweak" his delivery, it ended up ruining his chances last year and may have ultimately cost him his job, and it was a minor "tweak" not fully changing his delivery. 

White's foot work as a QB is flat out bad, as is illustrated by his bad performance at the combine, where he tied for 6th among QBs in the 3 cone drill, and the 20 yard shuttle. Not one of the QBs ahead of him ran faster than 4.81, and White ran a 4.55, despite the fact that he is much faster than they are, they out performed him in these foot work drills.

White played the QB spot with one foot out of the pocket, not a check down QB, he would look for a couple of options, and if nothing was there he would take off running, that will not work for him in the NFL. This may come as a surprise to some, but 56 players that participated in the 40 yard dash at the combine this year had better times than White, that is over one fifth of this years draft. where do you think that leaves him when ranked against the current NFL players?

 

Negatives: May not have a pro position. Lacks prototypical quarterback size and is not strong enough to take a lot of hits. Relies on big passing lanes and play-action to give him the chance to find receivers downfield. Needs to prove he has the hands to play in the slot as a receiver. Does not always secure the ball, and will keep it in his strong hand even running right. Exclusively worked in the shotgun and spread offense, so he needs to work on taking snaps and ball fakes. Can get the ball deep but is not accurate on well-defended passes beyond 10-12 yards. Struggles with accuracy on the move. Throws off his back foot too often. Does not have great touch on short throws. Delivery is stiff and mechanical. Lacks patience in the pocket, and will take off too soon and misses open targets. Makes questionable decisions with the ball, trying to make a play when nothing's there. Ball comes out of his hand poorly at times.

Copyright NFLDraftScout.com, distributed by The Sports Xchange.

 

His strengths however can not be taught, great athlete with great body control, a flat out player, a great leader, and a clutch player who always rises to the occasion, and that is exactly why people like him.

They say Pat White had a great combine, but that depends on what your looking at. Below are the events and where he ranked among the other participants at this years NFL combine.

                event                                QB        WR        overall

1. 40 yard dash= 4.55           1st        20th      T-57th    1TE and 11 safeties did 4.55 or better
2. vertical jump = 35.0"         1st     T-20th      T-81st    3TEs, 2OL, 11DL and 9LBs did 35.0" or better
3. broad jump = 9'9"              2nd   T-20th      T-92nd   5TEs, 6DL, 11LBs and 6'6" 248 lb J Freeman(4.97 40y-) did 9'9" or better
4. 3 cone drill= 7.06            T-6th      20th       T-78th    7QBs, 6TEs, 1OL, 2DL and 8LBs did 7.06 or better
5. 20 yard shuttle= 4.42     T-6th   T-24th       T-121st  5QBs, 6TEs, 3OL, 9DL and 12LBs did 4.42 or better

When they say Pat White had a great combine, their talking about how accurate he was throwing the ball, to open receivers, with no pass rush. 

But when it comes to the agility drills, these results are worse than I thought they would be, events 4 and 5 are the events you want your QB to perform best in, what is most troubling is that he is a much better athlete then the other QBs, he should easily come in 1st in each event, but his foot work is bad, and his worst two events, are where you want your QB to excel. 

As a WR prospect looking at these results you would think he was a lot bigger, as you can see on the list, he was out performed by way too many guys that are bigger than he is, and thats not even counting all the RBs and WRs that are bigger than him, and that is unfortunately most of them.

WR; IMO most likely to succeed at this spot, but again the IFs, WRs his size are usually  faster, having a slight build but average speed, 6’ 0" 197 lbs  White would have to learn WR without having a good height, weight, speed ratio.

RB; This is not realistic at all, the pounding an NFL RB takes is way too much for his slight frame, and adding weight would just make him slower with less quickness.

I am not a shrimp Patty hater, the results I found mirror what I thought I saw when he was in college, which is a player who was fast in college, but not in the NFL.

So who did we draft with that 2nd round pick, a small QB who's delivery, and foot work have to be changed, or a WR with no experience, and a bad height, weight, speed ratio, sounds IFFY to me.

As I said at the top he’ll have his chance to prove it on the field, but he will have to overcome a great deal to succeed in the NFL:>)

All combine results from NFL.com

Now wouldn't that be great, I would like to bring this up anyway, the week 1 D and the week 2 O each played well enough to win with a little help from the other side, they didn't get it, maybe it's the massive amount of installs they did but it seems to me we were not as prepared, but wait, that doesn't make sense, that's what this FO is all about and didn't our 1st teamers play more than anybody else in the preseason, then it occurred to me why, all those installs, thats why they played more in the preseason and thats why their a little behind now, at least thats a good guess I guess.

Continue reading this post »

I have done extensive viewing on our first three preseason games and we look good on The D Line.

I would like to explain what I mean by extensive viewing, I watch the game straight through once and then I go back and watch it again, but this time I rewind every play to look at each player, which means I watch every play about seven times, and yes, it takes a while.

First I will rank the players,

Probowl caliber; Jason Ferguson, Kendall Langford

Quality NFL starter; Randy Starks

Solid contributers; Paul Soliai, Phillip Merling, Tony McDaniel

Decent back ups; Rod Wright, Lionel Dotson

Project; Ryan Baker

Continue reading this post »

Well here it is, preseason games 3, the dress rehearsal for the regular season against our old preseason enemy the Bucs. We play them every year now, and this year it's the big preseason game, so I decided to go a step further and do a regular season game card.

The Buccaneers

On the offense they are trying to find out who is going to start at QB, Leftwich or the other McCown, Luke, evidently they don't think that Josh Freeman is ready yet.

The return of Ronnie's old college buddy, Cadillac Williams, he seems to be ahead of schedule and is looking very good, the Bucs will definitely be looking to run the ball with their uncertainty at QB and a healthy Cadillac will be very welcome indeed.

On the defensive side of the ball they have some players, some older but a lot of younger guys, the elder statesmen are Ronde Barber and Chris Hovan, the only two 10 year vets on the Bucs defense, and young guys like the stud ILB Barrett Ruud, they also have a Bo Ruud at LB, no relation I think, and a bunch of guys that like to fly around, another decent test for our Fins.

The Dolphins 

Chad and Ronnie take center stage tonight, along with the O-line and WRs and every one else, but those two were easily our best players on offense last year and they will be relied upon heavily this year to take us where we want to go. 

Of course they can't do their jobs if other people don't do their jobs, so what is it that we need done so that we can succeed on offense.

For Chad I think he will be looking at finding a go to receiver, some one he can rely on in a tight spot, last year it was Camarillo but he is not 100% yet, so who will it be, Bess is my guess, he just seems to get open, but Chad will be looking to start to spread the ball around and become a more versatile passing offense, we were efficient last year, we'll have to be better this year. That will also depend on the O-line, speaking of the O-line.

Ronnie is looking to have a big season, a year removed from the injury, in the best shape of his life, he wants to make his mark on the NFL. The O-line is really who takes the center stage in this, but that is always true, but the way to measure an O-line is by offensive production. 

The Defense is not going up against a power house here and we should control the game on that side of the ball, enter Porter and Taylor, they should be able to disrupt the passing game here, with the less than stellar candidates they will see this week, and our secondary will remain somewhat untested, because they have yet to be tested.

Our front 7 has looked very good applying pressure and stopping the run, but pressure would be better for us right now with the young guys at CB, the more pressure we get the easier it will be for those guys, our secondary has not been tested so far and has not looked great, not horrible, but not great either so they need to put together a good game against a weak QB situation to dispel some of our fears.

Thoughts

Last week I picked London and Bess on the O, and Wake and JT on the D, to me Wake stood out the most, but none of them had a bad day, lets try it again shall we, with nicknames this time.

On the O, I'm gonna take Chris (sand crab) Williams and Chad(the Arm) Henne, both of these guys were up and down last week, but both rebounded from bad mistakes in a very good way.

The Sand Crab had two early gaffs, a muffed punt, he should have caught that ball but he was on a dead run, just sayin at least he wasn't just sitting there waiting for it, it is harder to catch a punt when your running like that.

At this point in his career and the season, I'm not gonna kill him for trying to make a play, I'm talking about the punt he fielded at the 4yd line, no, you do not want your returner doing that, but everyone knows a kid in his position may not get many chances, and he erred on the side of aggression, but he did it with conviction, I wouldn't be surprised if he had said to himself, NO FAIR CATCHES, he never hesitated on his returns, even the one on the 4, he was going the whole time, can you dig it, fearless, good quality in a returner.

The Arm had a bad INT and sprayed a couple but the weather is worth mentioning, look they don't call the games for weather so you have to learn to play in it, but stuff happens.

Ricky dropped a beauty of a TD pass from the arm of the Arm and that 3rd down play when he stood in the pocket delivered a perfect throw knowing he was going to get smacked, and he maintained his form, he didn't "flinch back", gutsy, can't teach that, big arm, can't teach that, can't teach this kid anything ;^J

On the D, I'm going with Chris(crosshairs)Clemons and Quentin(plup fiction)Moses, both these guys had solid games and played with confidence.

Crosshairs is gonna make some big plays this preseason, ballhawking and ballstalking, this kid has big play written all over him, I'd like to see it today.

Pulp Fiction was quietly a beast in the last game, really showed some push and motor, he is playing angry, and evidently he plays better when he's angry. 

So what about you guys and gals?

We were definitely more prepared and disciplined then Jax, that is nice to see in the first preseason game, which is notoriously sloppy, lets just hope we keep that up, in truth that was our defining characteristic last year.

The Good
Sean Smith was very good in coverage and looked like he had done this before, very nice INT, one of the biggest plays of the game.
He is a smooth fluid athlete, of course we have to see him against better WRs, but he looked very good in this game.

Cam Wake applied consistent pressure all night, he put the QB on the ground at least twice, put his hands on him a couple more times, and had a few hurries besides those, also generated at least 2 false starts. 
It was clear that he was quite a handful for anyone who was trying to block him.
Wake was in on two of the biggest defensive plays of the game, at the end of the first half he ended Jax's drive with a false start on 3rd down, and after they walk the penalty yds off he runs right past that same guy and gets what should have been a sack or an intentional grounding, and the end of the game, on that last play where JAllen of all people, knocked down that pass, CWake was lying on top of the QB. 
He made several tackles including a couple of ST tackles, actually he made the first tackle of the game on the opening kickoff, of course we need to see him do this consistently, but he might be the goods.

Chris Williams and the WRs in general had a good day, I put CWilliams on top because he was very explosive on returns and quite possibly did more for the offense than anyone.
Obviously those two punt returns early were not good, but he responded in a big way with several very good returns including one that was called back.
So now this guy that no one had considered a candidate to make the team has become a serious threat to some WR on our roster, I'm thinking this cements that 6th WR spot if he continues to make returns like the good ones and eliminates the bad ones.

Ginn, Bess, Turner, Wilford(WR/TE), London and Hartline all had decent games, Ginn and Bess are clearly the two best WR right now, IMO Turner and Camarillo are locks, if CWilliams is that good a returner he is gonna make himself a lock, thats 5, one spot left.
In this corner, BLondon, and in this corner BHartline, AArmstrong is out IMO, with Ginn and again IF CWiliams, they would have 2 small fast guys, and he certainly didn't help his case by dropping the only pass that came his way which just happened to be Pat White's best pass of the night.
BLondon and BHartline both made a couple of ST plays, and both made one catch, draw.

The Bad
The run blocking was not great, the Jags have some good people up front so I'm not going to kill them over it, but it is worth mentioning, the line didn't play poorly, but they did not play good either, so all in all thats bad.

Vontae Davis wasn't good, i'd like to see him settle down in these next couple of games and start letting the game come to him instead of trying to do too much.

Pat White did not look good, I've heard more than a few people say that 3 of his incompletion's should have been caught, i've watched them a few times and I disagree, AArmstrong flat out dropped White's best pass of the night, but the other two are a different story.

The pass to Turner was just as much White's fault, that ball was way too hot for such a short pass, you would like to see Turner make the catch but at the same time White has to put more touch on that ball before he breaks some ones finger.

The other pass to Kimble I think it was, was again too hot, not only that but the ball was just a few inches over his helmet, it was all he could do to stick his arm up and try to get a hand on it, it hit his arm and flew up into the air and was picked, I would like to see the bruise on that guys arm.
White has got to get that ball in front of that receiver, Turner made a great diving catch on another poorly thrown short pass by white, or he might have only completed one pass.

On his rollouts he was being tracked down by DLs and LBs, and he managed to eek out a few yards against the bottom of Jax's roster on the ground, and he was gang tackled twice, he just simply doesn't have the speed or power to be an effective runner against NFL defenses, he was also arm tackled once, I think we can forget the wildcat for now, he is going to have to become a much more polished QB before he is going to be of much use, IMO.

The Ugly
VDavis's fair catch interference call will most likely end up being the bonehead play of the preseason for the Fins, I doubt it had any impact on the game, i'm just talking the sheer stupidity of the play, I've watched the game a couple times now and I watched that play a few times to try and find an excuse for Davis, there was none, he clearly saw the fair catch signal, he wasn't trying to tackle the guy, he was trying to strip the ball, WOWZAROONY, haha what?
Yea it was that stupid, trying to strip the ball after a fair catch, it's certainly not the end of the world but he had better get his head wired to his ass because he makes a lot of mental mistakes, he bites on too much, and he gave up on that one tipped pass, I'll give him a pass on the pass interference call because he clearly slipped, but he needs to start making smarter plays or should I say fewer dumb plays.

And that whiff of a block by Frye, he may have created a nice breeze for the fans but that was one ugly block, or should I say attempted block.

This will be a weekly issue and it will be different during the season, but for the preseason I will be looking at players who are trying to make the team, or move up the depth chart.

Lets face it, thats what the preseason is for, evaluating players, wins and losses don't matter nearly as much, If Sparano could get a good idea about a few players and lose, or win and be no closer to getting a read on any players, he would gladly take the loss.

I will pick 2 players on each side of the ball, and this weeks players are Davone Bess and Brandon London on O, and Cameron Wake and Jason Taylor on D.

Davone Bess is trying to become a starter for this team so he is going to have to show more then Camarillo to get the nod.

Brandon London is playing for a roster spot, amongst all the rookie hoopla BL has had a nice camp, he's flown under the radar due to the rookie watch, but he has been here before, they haven't, he will most likely have an advantage because of that.

Cam Wake and Jason Taylor have similar stories, both former DMVPs and dominant superstar players, for JT it's a matter of seeing how much of that he has left, for Cam Wake it's a matter of seeing if he can do it in the big league.

Those are my 4 players I think will have good games, what about you guys?