There are many varying philosophies about making a move at the deadline.  Many folks on this board have said that we are not built for beating the contenders in the NL if we even make the playoffs.  This week we face the NL favorites (PHL & ATL) and their repective aces.  If (and that is a big if) we take both series or even finish .500 or better for the 7 game stretch, what would you do? 

While it is fun to speculate who we are pursuing at the trade deadline (and even more fun to put together our players for trade scenarios), there is an underlying issue that paints all of our opinions - is it now or later?

My opinion is that we go for it now.  Here is why:

1.  You cannot guarantee we will be in a pennant race next year or at any time in the future. 

We have no idea how the drafts for the other team in the divisions pan out.  We have no idea if one of the other teams in our division decide to increase payroll and actively pursue Type A impact free agents.  There is no guarantee that baseball stays aligned in the current division structure regardless of what Coonley says.  No matter how well our future players project, the majority of our crop of good young players are in AA or below.  There is no way of knowing who will actually produce at the MLB level.  Oh, and of course you have injuries (aka Strasburg).

2.  We have several key players coming back from injury

One of the arguments against "now" is that we have too many holes to fill.  Well, Pearce coming back fills in a need for 1B.  Based on his production at the time of his injury and his production during his rehab stint and we may just have upgraded our 1B internally. 

3B - Pedro Alvarez.  It is obvious that there has been some regression, but at the same time, he is a legitimate home run threat.  Can we live with his defense and strikeouts is the question.  This in my opinion is one of the bigger wild cards.  Pearce production and flexibility is one of the biggest keys to our success in that we can plug him in one hole (1B or 3B) and acquire the bat for the other hole.

Outfield - Solved.  When Tabata comes back, you run out an outfiled with Tabata, McCutchen and Pressley.  That is a speedy outfield with good defense that constitutes the top half of your lineup.    I don't see a need here.  Your 4th outfielder would be Paul/Diaz toss up.  Jones could platoon with Pearce at 1B with Pearce starting at first against tough lefties and a Wood/Harrison scenario at 3B if Alvarez cannot hit his way back up the roster.  All of this is contigent on not getting the "bat" in a trade.

SS - Say what you want, but Cedeno has proved he can field consistently.  d'Arnaud is intriguing, but like all rookies needs to learn consistency.  d'Arnaud could be a good bench guy to learn the ropes as a fill in or pinch run guy.  Plus he keeps Cedeno on his toes.

Catcher - The "Fort" has been a solid replacement and could make a nice platoon situation with Doumit.  It would be nice to get Doumits bat back in the lineup 3-4 times a week. 

3.  Nutting has stated that we may increase payroll

This allows us to make an acquisition for money without having to "mortgage our future".  There are several teams hurting financially and for once, maybe the small market could provide some financial relief and some B prospects for that bat.

We have no guarantee of future success.  Obviously I am not advocating making a move for the sake of a move, but with all things being equal, we are one or two bats away.  We can address one internally and one externally.  I say we make a move and make a run while we can.  There is no guarantee for

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It has been a while since I posted last, but I want to thank Charlie and this last bastion of true Pirate fans for keeping me from taking the leap from the Clemente Bridge.  I have never been as frustrated following the Pirates than I have been in this last week.  It has gotten to a point where I review what the minor league guys are doing and ignoring the AAA.5 team we have at the MLB level.  Thank you all for keeping it positive and understanding that there is a direction this FO is moving towards. 

With that being said, do you all truly believe that Nutting really wants us to be a contender?  I mean absolute truth here.  I have taken so much BS over the last 17 years with Cam Bonifay, Kevin McClatchy and Dave Littlefield.  All of these men were very corporate, put on a good appearance, spoke with authority and had a plan.  Their results were crap.  Nutting has said he has put together one of the best front offices in sports.  FC told the Pirates in spring training that they were the beginning of the new Pirates dynasty of winning.  I am not sure if they read "The Secret" and were trying that type of philosophy for a change, but both Nutting and FC seem really delusional to think that anything in their organization resembles "the best".     

Did I expect drastic results in 3 years of the NH/FC regime?  No, but I did expect incremental improvement.  We have drastically upgraded our minor league system and have focused on the Dominican.  These are all good long term strategies.  My concern is over the "major league talent" evaluation.  While we didnt trade the best players in the world, our "major league ready" return has been average to  below average at best.  We all know how the song of 'Best Minor League in Baseball 1997" ended.  While I dont think that this go-round is a repeat, we have to be solid at the "major league ready" talent evaluation in order to fill the gaps.  Does this have anyone else concerned?

So I watched the end of the game last night so I coud actually witness the end of the 17 game losing streak.  Karstens leads off the bottom of the eighth and gets plunked.  Of course Karstens gets pissed because we are up 7-2 at the time and it was completely unecessary.  Jason Kendall gets in his face and the benches clear.  Joe Kerrigan actually had to be restrained (must be the Irish blood) while going after Kendall.  BTW - I didnt see JR and the word was he was being checked for a pulse in the dugout during the incident.....

Of course Wehner (who is only a tad better than Bill Fralic in the boring/annoying voices category) chimes in that this is ridiculous and Karstens should just take it like a man and go to first.  Wehner was giving Jason Kendall happy endings all over the place by saying that he was right by just getting in front of Karstens, telling him to go to first and for basically being the only guy in the game today to play old school baseball.....(wipe the s**t off your nose John)

As we all know, this was a retaliation for the whole Ryan Braun incident.  According to Weiner (I know I spelled it incorrectly), baseball polices itself in the beanball category by hitting the first opposing player after the previous tems hitter was beaned.  Well....the Brewers missed that part.  No Brewers pitcher beaned a Pirate batter after Braun was hit.  So two months later, with Karstens at bat in the middle of a blow out, the Brewers decided to exact payback? 

Look, if you "police yourself" in the whole beanball area, have the balls to do it when it happens no matter the ramifications.  Beanball etiquette is to do it during the game or even with the first batter in the next game of the series.  Don't be a douche and pick your spot just because you "owe the team one" and you were getting blown out already.  That was just ridiculous and an absolutely classless move that makes me hate the Brewers even more!   

I just wish Karstens stayed in the game and beaned Kendall who was leading off the top of the 9th.  I would have paid to see Weiner come down from the broadcast booth and publically tounge lash Karstens.  Karstens would have probably fell asleep during the rant though...... 

Give me one good reason why Brandon Moss should not be out there everyday in the OF.  DY is going to be a career pinch hitter.  Jones is a career minor leaguer who is a younger version of Eric Hinske.  Sidebar - remember how Cutch tore it up when he came up and then fell back to earth?  Jones will be the same way.  Once some advance scouting takes place on this guy he wont look as good at the plate.  Pearce is all but forgotten every time he has been called up.  I think it looks rather obvious that barring trade, he is really not part of the plan.

Which all brings me back to Moss.  We are on course to win 75/76 games.  Why do we care where the power will come from?  Why exactly do we need power anyway?  To win games?  Last time I checked we were in last place in our division and only have to jump 10 teams or so for the wild card.  So who cares if Moss hits 4 home runs this year.  Let him play and prove what he is worth. 

Moss has the most upside of the OF platoon we have in place now.  Our outfield should look like Milledge/Cutch/Moss for the rest of the year.  I dont care if Milledge or Moss OPS hovers at .500 - they should freaking play everyday.  We have to see what we have in these guys. 

Jones = Hinske
DY = reincarnation of Lee Mazzilli 
Pearce = no future in Pittsburgh barring trade. 

As far as everyone wanting to get rid of Adam LaRoche......the guy is a solid MLB player.  While we may all get maddened by his propensity to hit into double plays at the wrong times, he has an above average glove and 4 spot bat.  We will miss him and miss his production at 1B.  It is a shame we cant lock him in further because he really plays a solid 1B. 

Let's take a step back from our fan status and lets take a look at the players we are touting trade by the deadline:

Jack Wilson - Who replaces him?  We are spoiled with his glove, and when he is out of the lineup we all gasp anytime a ball is hit to short.  There are only a few good SS prospects out there with other teams and even fewer in our system.  Jack brings an above average glove yet average bat at best.  He is not going to fetch us any big time prospect(s).  He has a 9 year career with the PBC and has been the defacto face during all of the trades.  Why not throw the fans a bone and lock him down.  He has expressed interest in retiring a Bucco and we aren't going to do any better in our system.  His price tag while a bit high isnt going to break the bank.  I am all for a "Jason Kendall" type deal here.  The prospect of watching a second half without Jack at short scares me.

Freddy Sanchez - Again, who replaces him?  DY is lost at 2B.  If we would "baseballitize" a hockey version of plus/minus, DY could have an Adam LaRoche June OPS for the rest of the year and still be an overall minus -5.  He is that bad in the field.  Shelby Ford is not ready and no one is pushing Andy LaRoche off 3B yet.  Let's just say for all of you Neil Walker fans that we call him up after his finger injury and swith Luigi to 2B, do you really think a mid-year position change is a good idea even if we have no hope of contending?  We have just gotten Luigi's bat squared away and Neil Walker hasnt proven anything.  Anyway, what would Freddy fetch?  He is an average fielder who hits for average.  I think an "average" return would be all that we could hope for.  No Freddy at 2B scares me.   

Adam LaRoche - This trade sucks in the short term.  In the long term, we have at least one prospect we have to find out about (Steve Pearce) and veteren help (Hinske) if he absolutely shits the bed.  Past Pearce, we are thin and that scares me.  We continue to hear talk about Alvarez switching positions, but there has been no talk of that from the FO.  With the way Alvarez is moving, he may not have time to develop a new position.  We better cross our fingers that Pearce produces, otherwise it is going to be a long 2nd half and even longer off season. 

Zack Duke/Paul Maholm - With the lack of depth of the starting pitching in the market, I wouldnt be suprised to the see one of our regular starters (with the exception of Ian Snell) moved.  These guys are the real bargaining chips.  While I would hate to see what would happen to our already sub .500 record if you lose one of these starters, I would love the return they could fetch.  Teams would overpay to have a Duke/Maholm in their rotation.  They are young guys with proven track records.  Philadelphia, NY, NYY, LA, Detroit, MInn could really use one if not both of those guys.  If we package one of them with a Mario, you may be able to pick off a high end almost ready for major league prospect.  This DOES NOT scare me.

Ryan Doumit - moot.  No one is going to trade for an injury prone catcher. 

The bottom line is that most of our talent is AA and below.  We have some nice bargaining chips in starting pitching and a solid 1B as well as good package guys like Sanchez/Wilson.  I am hoping that the return will be for more immediate prospects who can fill holes at SS, 2B, SP? for a few years who can give us options should our low minor prospects faulter.  I think the time for trading "to build the minor leagues" is over and we should start addressing holes in 2010 and 2011. 

As a front office, do you decide to less Moss ride out the season in RF or do you put him in a platoon role?  When he was traded, the scoop on Moss was that he projected to be a 3rd (upside) or 4th outfielder.  With half of June to go, he has close to one full year of baseball under his belt with the PBC.  I have yet to see the 3rd outfielder upside.  Moss projects to me to be the opposite of Delwyn Young (good defense/weak bat) which is a nice piece, but not an every day starter. 

While I would not call us contending, we are only 6.5 out of first and 5 out of the wildcard.  We do not have the bullpen or power bat to make a legitimate run, but our offense production from RF is a glaring weakness.  I do not advocate a change for change sake, but I do think putting Hinske/Young/Monroe in RF will influence the standings enough while not completely forsaking defense.  Should we run Moss out there a full year to see if he does reach upside (3rd Outfielder) since we wont truly contend or would it serve him to go back to the bench or AAA to rediscover his bat?

Of course we do not gain anything of future benefit as a club by playing Hinske or Monroe (and Young is suspect at best on defense), but would it hurt to get an increase in offensive production today from  "power position" from a veteran?  Hinske and Young have both proven themselves as hitters with power and we could sorely use some home run power.  We already have a weak hitting LF, but at least he has been a catalyst with an above average arm.  Moss has proven that he cannot hit with RISP and has shown nothing but doubles power in almost one full year of major league service.  Maybe I am spoiled by Andy LaRoche who was a higher caliber pick-up, but Moss has done nothing but dissapoint. 

I think it is fair to say the McLouth and Moss both projected to be the same type of player with McLouth being more of a 4th outfielder as upside.  McLouth showed doubles power with an average glove at AAA.  Upon call up, he hustled and with good work ethic became the player he was with the PBC.  I can't speak to Moss's work ethic, but he really hasnt had to earn his position.  While he has been solid at defense, he just looks lost at the plate.  He hits nothing with authority.  He had a nice little streak in May, but his peaks and valleys are just too far apart in my opinion.  While our talent at AAA and AA are about 1 to 2 years away, do we just suck it up or utilize the tools we may have for RF?  Maybe we just need to light a fire under him or something or at least make him earn back his starting job?

I am so sick and tired of reading the emotional whiners on this topic!!!  There is obviously intelligent discussion to be had on the return as well as core players to build around, but almost a week later and there are people who are ready to run NH out of town.  This is ridiculous and here are 3 reasons why:

1.  We called up our most hyped, homegrown, major league ready prospect since Aramis Ramirez to replace McLouth.  Of course he does not have the pedigree of 1.5 major league seasons as a starter, but since his call up, are any of you worried about his potential/upside?

2.  With the commitment to the prospects now in the system and their respective age, is it wise to build a future winning product on the field with a guy who was deemed organizational and who over achieved at 27 years old?  When the talent in the minors blossom (project 2011/2012), McLouth would be 30.  How many teams build around 30 year olds?  Where is the precedent?  There is no precedent.  McLouth is not Clemente.  McLouth is an average MLB centerfielder at best at 27.  What is he going to be at 30? 

3.  It will take more than 1.5 years to buld the minors back up after the Bonifay/Littlefield debacle.  Let's examine NH's moves on merit.  The Nady/Marte trade has yielded us two starting pitchers and top 80 minor league candidate with upside.  Do you all think our rotation would be better off without Ollie and Karstens given the Nady injury/Marte ineffectiveness?  What about the Bay trade.  Bay has done nothing but produce, but at the same time, Andy LaRoche gives us a player under our control for the next several years and stabalizes a position for us that has not been solid since Jeff King.  Morris is oft injured and the jury is out.  Moss has been a disappointment, but is relatively young and under our control.  The net/net is we gave up a producer we were about to lose control of, and in return received high upside guys, one of which looks like the makings of a stud.  Also take a look at all the some of the transactional moves:

Steve Jackson has the markings of a ground ball bullpen specialist and we lost nothing
Robinson Diaz has provided nice depth at catcher and all we lost was a utilityman
Jaramillo has produced nicely in Doumits absence and all we lost was an underachiever
Delwyn Young leads the league in pinch hitting effectiveness and all we lost was an organizational player

These are just a few of NH's good moves.  I would be hard pressed to find any deals that NH has struck that are bad deals and in 1.5 years you start to see trends.  We are in good hands with NH/Coonley.  They are doing things the right way and making smart baseball moves.  We need to get on the bandwagon - not jump off.  We are doing better on the field than we have in a long time and we arent even doing it with our projected weapons.  It is an exciting time to be a Bucco's fan - raise the freakin' Jolly Roger! 

The McClouth trade was a baseball trade.  When you get up to the deadline, I feel you may get less value due to time constraints.  Let's say the FO wasnt actively shopping McClouth and the Braves actually kept pushing them to make the trade.  In that scenario, we get what we want with no deadline pressure and we can drive the deal.

I think we may need to start shopping Doumit before the deadline.  We have two catchers who have filled in admirabley and are definitely better defensively.  In addition, they have both handled the pitching staff effectively.  While Doumit is a "Pittsburgh kind of guy", I think he could net us a similar (maybe a touch lower) return.  We really dont sacrafice much power and we gain defensively.  We would also give up a player who has not made it through any season without missing a chunk of playing time.  I would be all for packaging him up with a Grabow to net us a decent return for a middle infield prospect and/or power bat or both. 

Since our World Series is the trading deadline, which players do yinz see on the move?  I'll start:

Adam LaRoche - replace with Steve Pearce (Note:  We keep running Moss out there, why not let Pearce.  He can keep the spot warm for Alvarez and at a seriously reduced cost).

Jack Wilson - replace with Brian Bixler (Note:  BB is not the long term answer, but we could look for a top 5-10 propect in return for Jack).

Freddy Sanchez - replace with Delwyn Young (Note: This could be disastrous for the second half, but if his bat is halfway decent we could live with it).

Overall realistic return I would like to see from a trading partner - top 5 pitching propect, proven number 4 starter, top 5-10 SS prospect, proven major league IF, raw/toolsy upside player and of course the organizational throw ins.  Am I being too optimistic or is this about right?

BTW - if they made me an offer to manager I am there yesterday! 

I wanted to dedicate a thread to Steve Blass.  He is a class guy who I am proud to have as a face of Pittsburgh Pirate Alumni.  He is being honored today for his 50 years of service to the organization.  We are lucky to have such an ambassador for our organization.  Kudos to Bob Nutting for setting this up for Steve. 

On a side note, I miss Lanny as a part of the Opening Day festivities, but am glad to see Greg Brown take the reigns. 

It is great to see Freddy and Jack both healthy and hitting.  The sad part is that if their early production continues, they will more than likely be shipped off mid-season. 

Here is a question:
"What kind of prospect would Freddy and/or Jack yield?"

Our young 2nd base prospect in Altoona is at least 2 years away and from all reports is questionable at best on defense.  I also dont think that Bixler is projected as anything more than a role player at the major league level.  Would Jack and/or Freddy fetch us a major league ready position player at 2nd base or SS?  I would hate to think we would move them under the "we have to add depth to our minor league system" header.  They have contributed so much to the PBC and their enthusiasm and hustle are valuable to have as a model for the young guys we are looking to bring along. 

Would management keep them around?  It seems to me that their window expires just before we project to compete in '10 or '11 and their value is more towards getting players/prospects than being contributers toward winning baseball on the major league squad.  What would return more value - leadership or a trade?  Its not like they are blocking anyone.....

Sorry for the ramble, but I was wondering what the sentiment is out there.....

Andy is on pace to have 225 errors playing a minimum of 150 games without injury.  The major league record is 91 by Charlie Hickman who played thrd base for the New York Giants in 1900.  Andy only has 88 to go.  I think we should keep vigil during the season to see if he can break this hallowed mark. 

 http://www.baseball-almanac.com/rb_3ber.shtml

 BTW - along with the ghost of Charlie Hickman, does anyone else thing the ghost of Pat Mears may be lurking?

Why are we so worried about how Pearce will feel if he continues to slump?  Granted, he did move up through the ranks quickly, but slumps are part of the game.  How better to learn the MLB than playing at the MLB.  Let him learn how to deal with slumps and the psychology of the game from JR and vets like Minky.  Pearce can see success in Winter Ball and the Fall League. 

Morgan to me is an Abraham Nunez type with better speed - decent bench guy/pinch runner type.  What bothers me is that he is getting PT over Pearce and McCuthen.  I guess if we acquired a Pearce or McCuthen then we would let them play......

Seriously, the Pirates should be paying us to attend the games.  This team is ridiculous right now.  I know we are headed in a "different direction", but this is the third rebuilding process and I have lost patience.  Of course we have better talent at the minor league level than in the past, but dont forget we were voted the best minor league system in 1997 and all that yielded us was 10 more years of losing and two more GMs.  At the end of the day, all of the guys are just prospects.  You cant count guys like Doumit and McClouth as guys to build around.  They have both done it just one year.  We sign Ian Snell as the "ace of the staff" after a good half last year, and look what he has turned into.  There is no guarantee that McCutchen, Pearce or for that matter Tabata and Alverez will ever turn into anything.  There is nothing but pure upside for them right now.  Yes we have different scouts, but this organization has produced nothing but one bona fide all star in the past 16 years (Ramirez). 

I am not normally negative, but I am more skeptical and less benefit of the doubt right now after enduring so many losing seasons.  I know that Andy and Brandon have to take their lumps in the MLB, but at the end of the day, they are just prospects.  As far as what the Pirates could do differently.......they are doing it now.  What the impact will be remains to be seen.  There is no way any of the prospects we got in return will all pan out, but there could be some sleepers in the minors (ala McClouth).  My major question is that if a few hiccups happen along the way, will Nutting pull the money?  He is in the media industry (primarily small town newspapers) which is not exactly booming.  He can pull outside revenue away from the Pirates and turn a tiny profit with revenue sharing and PNC park without putting a winner on the field.  What is the turn around time on our draft and infrastructure investments?

On a side note - I cannot stand the sideshow PNC Park has become.  I worked for the Delmarva Shorebirds (SAL league) in 1999 and PNC Park has turned into a minor league baseball sideshow between innings.  How long until we hold a fan blackout, shave your head, save Brittney's baby contest at PNC?  If I want to go to Kennywood, I will drive to West Mifflin.

Sorry for the rant, this board is theraputic.