- Joined: Jan 26, 2015
- Last Login: Sep 22, 2021, 11:32am EDT
- Posts: 134
- Comments: 556
Web developer and random Black guy. Find me on Twitter at @smugchristophe
Comment 2 recs
If you're WarnerMedia
…And you have two shows on your networks that can place in the top 10 during its timeslot in the 18-49 demographic every single week, you’re estatic.
It’s the right move to keep Rampage on TNT and Dynamite on TBS. TBS is the bigger network of the two and Rampage is a reliable TV draw for TNT that is NOT the NBA or the NHL.
Comment 5 recs
Suzukia and Homicide are also facing off this weekend in GCW
Probably won’t be mentioned on the broadcast, but this also somewhat built towards that, too to help sell it in NYC.
But Homicide is indeed a legend of the NYC indie scene… actually the entire Northeast indie scene.
Comment 1 reply, 3 recs
I would still not agree to long term booking. If you talk about Jericho v Page at all out and from there, you start a storytelling for Page, then it’s funny. Then almost everything which is going on in AEW is a story right now. They put the title on Jericho, as they needed a big name to carry the promotion and it was all about rating. And people were crazy for Judas even though Jericho was a heel. Long term storytelling at this stage is non existent. If Thunder Rosa comes tomorrow and beats DMD, that is not longterm storytelling. It is how the title is supposed to go around. There is one thing, which I love about AEW, and it is that fans get what they want. If someone has to be a champion or a winner, they will be champion/winner (no question or story needed).
You’re tying things to titles, which makes zero sense. Keep in mind: Jericho was always going to be the first champion, Moxley was always going to be the second champion, Omega was always going to be the third champion, and Page is obviously planned to be the fourth champion. Page has had a consistent story arc the entire time, and you’re focusing too much on titles and not missing what these angles are actually about. It is fair to say Rosa and Britt Baker are not in a long-term feud; Rosa has already won their feud the first time around with the Lights Out Match. Ruby Soho, if I had to be a betting man, is going to be the next AEW Women’s title holder because it will be very clear there had been a significant change in plans.
Regarding paying off at big stage, any big story (non-title or title bout) will generally be done at a big stage. Recently due to ratings, they started bringing stories to SD and Raw, example of which I gave but generally, it is at a PPV. And as I said multiple times before and in this comment section too, out of 10 things that E does, 1 or 2 work. Fans are infuriated about the conversion. So am I. However, the one that works do have feel good moment about it.
And I hate rating war. Yes money is needed, but the payoff should be when you least expect it. You should feel that the promotion is also against you and Bam, it happens. Surprise element is no longer there.
You would have hated the Attitude Era and the peak of the Monday Night Wars.
Coming to long term storytelling, for Kofimania, you do know that the story was for Ali. How Brock took the MiTB away from him. He was supposed to be the champion at WM. Since he got injured, WWE rewrote everything and made Alimania into Kofimania. Can’t debate how it ended but it was a good 6 month run for Kofi. And the DB scenario, Vince was always high on him. If he would not have been, there was no reason for him to listen to fans. People say VKM doesn’t listen. Then why would he do it. He did because it was all to have the reaction. DB vs HHH was always there, which was what brought the Yes movement. The championship match made WM more spectacular.
That’s not "long term booking". Ali was never planned to win the WWE title; he was, however, going to have a main event run: Kevin Owens was supposed to challenge Bryan originally. The audience forced McMahon’s hand. I think fans feel that McMahon doesn’t listen to him, because while he will occasionally throw them a bone, the fact is that the major thing that fans want McMahon to do—an improvement in the week-to-week TV canon—is something he’s stayed away from. Throwing a bone to the audience and actively listening to the audience are two different things. If McMahon listened to his audience consistently, then WWE wouldn’t keep burning viewership faster than the declines of TV audiences. Believe me, I am far from a McMahon hater.
I’m a bit surprised that you haven’t brought up the best example WWE has had of long term booking: the story arc of Roman Reigns.
And about the whole Page thing, if it was about Elite v Page and give him the moment, they would have waited before Omega got his first loss. They would have waited before Cole joined Elite and they would not have done Christian v Omega with the former winning the bout. AEW universe would definitely love it when Page hands would be risen, as he is amongst the top 5 babyfaces in promotion. Hell, it would be a bigger pop if Darby wins. However, they broke the story in between. Yes, Page had to go away for his family, but they should not have done the two things mentioned above. I hope the TVA from Loki Series would come and correct the story for this long term booking.
That is what happens when you have a performer that is champion of different promotions.
The angle is not Omega losing a match—the angle has always been Page redeeming himself by getting revenge on Omega. As for Omega losing the title here’s the thing: he was always going to lose the title to Christian.
When Impact and AEW made their agreement to have Omega as champion, they already a fairly comprehensive plan mapped out. This was reported by Meltzer (who did not know ahead of time who Omega would drop it to), and considering how close Meltzer is with Khan, an overwhelming majority of AEW stories reported by Meltzer have been proven to be true.
It would have also not been Omega’s first loss. It would have been Omega’s first loss this year in AEW canon. It was literally only the second time he was pinned in front of AEW cameras. For many AEW fans, it is not the angle killer that you feel it is. And unfortunately, business gets in the way and business decisions have to be made, regardless of how you feel about it as an angle. That’s just the wrestling business.
Comment 1 reply, 6 recs
For clarification purposes
AEW doesn’t do long term booking. They just do booking. I do understand fans bringing that up now and then, but it is funny. The wrestlers winning or losing matches do not have creative direction between the time the match was booked and when the eventual result happen.
Over the past three years, they have worked to set up angles that are literally not resolved until months later. Aside from angles that they needed to stop because it wasn’t getting over with the audience, AEW’s canon has been fairly consistent. Company luminaries have said themselves it is a major part of what they do. The company’s longest running angle—the redemption of Adam Page—has literally ran since All Out in 2019. Everyone can have their own opinion, but this doesn’t make any sense at all.
Coming to WWE, they do payoffs at big stage and that is what everyone wants. Whatever phrase you would have heard, they will always teach you about patience. And this is what they try to do with their performers. Do they work all the time, absolutely not. And they can even lead to sour taste with several rematches. I don’t like the belt moving from one wrestlers to the other or a constant story between 3-4 wrestlers, but it is what entertainment is all about. Not everyone in a movie is a star and the story keeps on revolving around the main character.
They don’t always do payoffs at a big stage. WWE will end feuds and angles on weekly programming. I wouldn’t say big stage payoffs is what "everyone" wants. A good chunk of the WWE audience, in various Internet-based communities, want the company to "improve" their attention to detail in week-to-week canon.
Also, the title changes or an introduction of a star should come out not to make money but to get a reaction. Even though I loved it a lot, but title wins to Lashley and Big E was just for rating. The same with Danielson and Punk introduction in AEW.
You may hate it, but it is a necessary part of the wrestling business. Networks pay for programming and they want that programming to have eyeballs so they can sell advertising spots.
When the moment is done at a grander stage and when you least expect it, this is when the actual reaction comes out and moments are created. You can look at Kofimania, Bianca, Becky, Sasha, Yes Movement and countless others, which have been created after months of effort spent on a performer. The only feel good moment AEW can create right now is with Hangman Page and even that is too late now, as Kenny already lost to Christian and the heat on the Elite is going away with BayBay in the group.
To be honest, none of these are good examples outside Belair and Banks. Kofimania was literally the result of 1 month of heat. He was thereafter a poorly written babyface champion. Becky Lynch was the result of 2 months of heat and backlash against Charlotte Flair. The "Yes Movement" was not from months of investment, but mostly backlash over Bryan Danielson’s booking, especially after the company tried booking Big Show and later Batista over him as the top babyface because McMahon didn’t want to bet on Danielson. Fans forced McMahon’s hand.
If you pay attention to the AEW fanbase, the one thing that is consistent in their desire is to see Hangman Page triumph against Kenny Omega, because it is less about Omega and more about Page ultimately triumphing over Page and the entire Elite that abandoned him. That’s the actual angle. The title, quite frankly, is just a bonus. The majority of AEW fans are also well aware of why Omega lost to Christian: Page requested time off to be with his wife and the company had to shoehorn in an effective substitute given that Omega had already wrestled any potential money mid-card guys that could have been used for an All Out main event. AEW is completely different with how they treat their fans when it comes to unscripted or real life issues affecting kayfabe canon.
Comment 2 replies, 2 recs
Comment 1 reply
That is understandable...
…But WWE almost always books their babyfaces to be embarrassed in their hometowns. The last time a babyface went over in a high-profile segment in their hometown that I can remember is when Rock won his match against Cena 9 years ago.
Comment 1 reply, 15 recs
I wouldn't consider Leyla Hirsch a jobber at all
She’s lost only 4 times this year.
With 23 matches in 2021, she’s third behind Nyla Rose and Thunder Rosa in the number of matches performed by an AEW woman this year. Nyla has had 33 matches in 2021; Rosa has 31 (her Lights Out Match against Baker did not count in her record).
I also don’t consider Cargill to have a rocket strapped to her back. There’s cases where that description would apply—that doesn’t apply to Cargill at this time.
Comment 1 reply, 2 recs
The first 7 pages of the lawsuit can be found here:
This was from back in 2002. Dustin was accused of groping her breast, rubbing his groin against her.
Comment 2 replies, 1 rec
I don't think she disapproved of it
I think it was a case of her feeling like that "it comes with the territory".
Comment 3 replies, 7 recs
Looking back at that lawsuit:
Dustin was accused of groping and accosting one of the flight attendants. That’s a serious accusation. That was not brought up in the documentary.
That is an incredibly damning documentary.
May the universe bless Heidi Doyle.
Comment 1 reply, 5 recs
Actually, 1 million to 2 million viewers is actually very, very good
Once upon a time, WWE was pulling 4-5 million viewers a week for Smackdown, and 6-7 million viewers a week for Raw.
TV was far different back then, when scripted shows and reality shows were garnering anywhere from 18 to 20 million viewers a week. In fact, in 2001, Survivor on CBS was pulling in a staggering 28-30 million viewers a week.
I wish fans would stop comparing today’s TV numbers to yesterday’s TV numbers. It’s not even close to be in the same stratosphere.
WWE and AEW’s ratings these days are quite good.
Comment 3 recs
NXT is a product for wrestling nerds...
…and you’re going to see viewership numbers reflect that.
NXT isn’t a bad product; it’s just not an accessible one. If you’re not a big-time diehard wrestling fan or wrestling nerd, you’re not going to be into NXT.
NXT has older viewership (it’s median viewer age is 53). That means that NXT viewers are either (a) long time pro wrestling fans or (b) long time WWE viewers that has a deeper interest in what WWE has to offer.
What’s the point of the rebrand? To appeal to younger viewers by making the show more accessible.
Comment 1 reply, 2 recs
Gonna be honest with you
NXT is a product for wrestling nerds. It is what it is.
That’s not necessarily a bad thing. But the reality is that it is going to limit the type of viewer that’s going to tune in. The typical NXT viewer is older (the median age is 53), probably has been a long-time wrestling or WWE fan, and cares about pro wrestling at a deeper level.
Accessibility matters and NXT has limited accessibility. That’s the whole point of the rebrand: to create a much more accessible show and remove lower the barrier of entry for audiences.
Comment 3 recs
Salina De La Renta would be perfect
One of the best heel valets I have ever seen. Loved her in MLW.
Comment 2 recs
I think highly all of those shows, but TO ME...
For ECW One Night Stand, most of those matches were actually short and I think the shenanigans after the main event and the crowd energy was more memorable than the event itself. I do think it was the best of the all the post-ECW reunion shows and the quintessential reunion show for pro wrestling period.
Wrestle Kingdom was memorable, had matches of impeccable quality; but as great as the event was, it ultimately meant nothing in the long run—Styles, The Good Brothers, and Nakamura—all bolted for WWE afterwards even though the event did lead to Kenny Omega and Okada putting on the greatest pro wrestling match ever a year later.
Wrestlemania X-Seven was a memorable moment for me as a 13 year old, but 20 years later, I look back on it as the greatest show WWE has ever produced; however, it didn’t really change much for WWE or the industry at large afterwards. It was more memorable for closing an era instead of being a genesis of one like All Out will be remembered for being in the future.
Not saying you’re wrong. Just providing counterpoints.
Comment 1 reply, 4 recs
I don't think it's so much that as it is...
…They’re just wanting something to see meaningful from their favorite performers.
Just unfortunately, not every performer can be used in a meaningful way.
Ultimately, certain fans are just unfulfilled and it frustrates them, so whining about it is a coping mechanism.